I don’t know how I missed this bizarre “Manist” propaganda campaign when it happened last summer. Or maybe I did but couldn’t quite believe it was for real? Well, it was. Is.
If, like me, you missed it the first time, #DontMANcriminate was the brainchild of Indian lifestyle/fashion site Maggcom, and it demonstrates that “Manists” in India can be as ridiculously histrionic and oblivious to reality as their counterparts here in the west.
The site launched the campaign on Facebook with an inadvertently hilarious mini MANifesto:
Manism. This is to remind us of the forgotten gender, who, regardless of the situation, are expected to be such gentlemen.
Men: The FORGOTTEN GENDER.
When women talk about being put on the same pedestal as men, simultaneously there is an unsaid expectation of chivalry out of them. It is time we realize that they deserve a break from being all heroic and they too suffer a different level of harassment.
I’m going to bust out crying.
Did I mention that none of the guys whose faces were used in this campaign actually agreed to appear in it?
That first poster above takes on the horrible injustice of dudes not being able to get FREE DRINKS from creepy guys with ulterior motives. This second one takes on the equally serious injustice of men sometimes feeling vaguely obligated to HOLD DOORS OPEN.
And then there is the terrible terrible oppression of women-only cars on trains and buses, which is a thing in India not so much because “hey let’s be mean to men and give women this totally random privilege h ha ha screw those dudes” but because “gosh we really can’t figure out how to stop dudes from groping and harassing women on trains and buses so I dunno maybe just put them in different cars or something?”
And then there’s all that terrible anti-male discrimination in the job market.
And that’s not even counting the terrible prejudice against hostile woman-hating MGTOWs!
But this last one?
Guys, guys! You want to wear heels? You want to wear makeup? JUST GO AHEAD AND DO IT!
Seriously. dudes. You don’t even need to wear underwear!
Actually fellas, maybe you should wear underwear after all. Not everyone can pull off assless pants quite as tastefully as the dear departed Prince.
I thought many feminists decided that certain social expectations of men are really no big deal even if they’re stupid and arbitrary. So it might be stupid and suck if men are expected to always pay the dinner bill on a date, but that’s in no way morally equivalent to something like employment discrimination or domestic violence.
@Playonwords:
The makeup used by Trump and other politicians is the kind that’s supposed to invisible to the cameras, so everyone can pretend that their skin really is that perfect. (I’m told that the late Sen. Ted Kennedy, when seen without the invisible tv makeup had a rather red nose, due to his years of drinking, but that was never seen when he was being filmed.)
And I take it that the guys giving up the seat on the bus only applies to pretty white women, not WoC or otherwise not-pretty women. Then again, the last time a white guy told a tired black woman to give up her seat for him, it kicked off the US Civil Rights movement, so maybe that’s why. >:)
@Skiriki
I wasnt addressing you specifically, which is why I didnt @ you, certainly wasnt arguing w u. I was speaking generally. Sorry that wasnt clear.
Kale:
‘sokay, the web isn’t always the best interface for communicating, misunderstandings and misreadings happen! 🙂
Anyway, it is a very useful article. 🙂
Not sure where you got that idea?
You have two ideas here, and the eliding them is not legit. “It is stupid and it sucks that men are always expected to pay the dinner bill on a date” is true. It’s not true because it’s oppressive to men – men have the option and the power to just stop doing that if they don’t like it. It’s true because it’s a symptom of the patriarchal norms that tell the story that women are inferior to men. Men are supposed to “take care of” women because women are not capable of taking care of themselves. Then women are expected to express their gratitude for this by making themselves sexually available to the man who paid for her dinner. That’s the problem with the concept.
You only have to ask a female-presenting person who tried to insist on paying for her own meal only to be greeted with rage to know that this is not an example of male oppression. Although some dudes hate the arrangement, the ones who go off about how it is misandry!!! don’t really seem to be inclined to date women who won’t actually expect them to pay for their dinners. That’s because their objection to the arrangement is not the expenditure of money, but the fact that women aren’t obligated to reciprocate with sex and often do not.
I mean, William Farrell said that straight out, in words, and equated it with rape.
With that understanding, your second statement, that “expecting men to pay for dinner is in no way morally equivalent to something like employment discrimination or domestic violence” makes less sense.
@Kale
The oppression of Irish in Ireland by the British government isn’t the topic under discussion; it’s the alleged oppression if Irish immigrants in the U.S. that people keep going on about. Now, there was (and is) certainly anti-Irish prejudice in the States (along with anti-Catholic prejudice), and Irish-Americans have suffered because of that, but it’s not oppression olympics to point out that PoCs have always been treated worse. Indeed, when people bring up that crap, I always point out that during the 19th century the Irish were in fact facing a whole lot more oppression in Ireland than they were in the U.S.
ok. I shoulda read more carefully I guess.
I agree for the most part but wouldnt call it alleged- blocking people from jobs, comscription, terrorist campaigns like attacking churches. thats all pretty oppressive. I guess I didnt realize anyone was running around trying to equate things like that and indentured servitude to slavery.
It used to be the norm to say women in early Am. were enslaved to men. They certsinly werent fully free, equal, empowered, enfranchised etc, but I now see that as disingenuous when you had literal slaves in literal chains, you know? I kinda see this the same way.
& the fact the Irish had more freedom in Am. is why they came here. pretty much Everyone in Ireland was poor but it was the very poorest who got stuck there to starve to death whereas the lucky ones immigrated.
It also doesnt excuse how horribly racist Irish-Ams in particular were as a group. Just as the Holocaust doesnt make it Ok for Israel to bomb hospitals.
& it certainly is ignorant to not get how being absorbed into white privilege worked better for the Irish (some black people did seek to try this route to avoiding oppression, it was a big topic in 20s black lit, it mainly just wasnt really possible).
So yea Im with yall I just think it gets taken too far. Its useful for white folks to see how other white folks have been oppressed by racism (yes, bc its a social construct and Irish Italian etc werent always counted as white), to help understand the issue. Yes they should care w/o that but … it helps, just like recognizing anti-racist whites helps.
@PoM You’re right. I suppose what I meant primarily was that it’s not oppressive to men. It presupposes men are the ones who have the money and control over the relationship.
Of course, Warren Farrell’s “date fraud” claims (you pay = she owes you sex) are much worse than complaining that your date expected you to pay for dinner (or complaining that she paid for it).
Each and every vagina (I hope that it is not offensive to anyone that I am talking about the OEM kind, I just don’t have the knowledge to feel comfortable stating the same is true for TS who have had ‘bottom surgery’.) has its own scent. It might be stronger at certain times and not others. I don’t know what it’s like elsewhere but in the US there is a fairly significant commercialized paranoia over scent. This can be seen in ads for products like Febreze which was once just a fabric refresher spray but now has a full range:
“Odors in your house you’ve gone nose blind to” – ad for the air freshener,; a commercial with a mom and teen son getting his room prepped for a study session which will involve some female classmates and though the room is otherwise spotless mom tells son his room stinks like teen boy Febreze is used and girls come in all flirty towards son. There’s also an ad with two women, one drops by for a visit and is overwhelmed by the odors of cat/cat litter box, Febreze is used and everyone is happy.
Then we have deodorant commercials: ones for women imply it’s the only way to make us weaker beings (strong enough for a man but made for a woman) presentable/acceptable for being out in public; men’s show that a pleasant smell leads to beautiful women flocking to them.
I’m old enough to remember when feminine hygiene products (douches) commercials were still on tv though I had no idea what they were talking about in those ads at the time much less the reason those ads suddenly disappeared. Recent years have seen the pay model for television ushered in by cable when it was still small start to schedule (if schedules were on steroids and the number of times ads are shown were someone doing power lifting) which ads to air when. Afternoons, evenings some mornings you’ll see tampon and pad tv commercials; daytime until school lets out for the day is when feminine hygiene wash ads tend to be shown – and all of it is to maximize profits by tapping into fear, the insecurity about what’s ‘normal’.
Americans (and I am one) have been hearing the message that humans and their living environments are stinky, gross things which require a crapton of products to simply be tolerable. In a way, for all our efforts with expanding the product options women have when menstruating and making it no longer a taboo subject amongst women themselves, we’re still living in metaphorical menstruation huts. Corporations profit from exploiting our carefully and intentionally created paranoia over whether our stink is normal because “maybe we can’t tell when it’s not” – as implied by ads. We need to get rid of that message.
@Imaginary Petal
Before I had to use wheels permanently, I had the same problem. I guess other passengers thought I was out of breath because I was overweight and unfit, as opposed to swollen with a heart condition. It wasn’t that they didn’t want to help, they just needed confirmation that I was disabled. No one wants to be the person who asks when the baby’s due when the woman concerned isn’t pregnant.
I found that by only using my walking stick when I absolutely needed it, I wasn’t doing myself any favours. Once I started using it on the tube, my disability became obvious. Other passengers gave up their seats as soon as they saw me even if they weren’t in designated seats. It restored some of my faith in humanity 🙂
@Msexceptiontotherule
This drives me mad as well. There was a product on the TV in the UK a few years ago designed to ‘mask’ female odour. When the manufacturers were challenged on it, they said that their product was just to target ‘fishy’ aromas. They didn’t advocate its use on ‘normal’ smelling vaginas. Of course it WAS being used on perfectly healthy vaginas because it’s an accusation thrown at women to humiliate them.
What made it even worse was its use on vaginas with genuine fishy odours. Smelling like fish is a symptom of bacterial vaginosis (BV), so the first response should be to go to a doctor for treatment. Masking the smell just exacerbates the problem. Ironically, BV can be contracted by frequent douches because they wash away the normal vaginal bacteria Lactobacilli, allowing unfriendly bacteria like Gardnerella to take it’s place. The resulting infection requires antibiotics in order to treat it. It doesn’t clear up on its own, it just gets worse.
Manufacturers of this type of female hygiene products don’t like the fact that the vagina is basically self-cleaning. They can’t make a profit out of hot water. So they tell women they’ve been doing it wrong for generations and make them feel paranoid that they smell bad. Younger women are particularly vulnerable to this false claim and buy douches they do not need. When they contract BV, they are offered a product to mask the smell rather than treat the infection, which gets worse, so more of the smell masker is bought.
They have no conscience and no shame about the damage they are causing. Just as long as their profits keep rolling in 🙁
tl:dr. Douches can wash away good bacteria, making ideal conditions for bacteria that smells like fish. Women are encouraged to buy a spray to mask the smell instead of taking antibiotics. As the infection gets worse, they buy more spray. Without treatment, they can end up in big trouble because the infection becomes harder to shift.
People of all ages and genders hold doors open for me because it can be difficult to operate and steer a mobility scooter while simultaneously opening the door and holding it open. I particularly enjoy it when children hold the door for me. I make a point of saying I really appreciate it and they did a fantastic job. They absolutely beam at me and usually have a little happy skip once I’m through the doorway. Totally makes my day 🙂
I guess I also make a really bad gold-digger as I never went out for a meal on a first date if I could possibly avoid it. My dyspraxia gets worse when I’m under pressure and getting food all down my front and in my cleavage is not a good look.
It also used to take me forever to finish a drink if they were fizzy. So if my date got the first round, by the time he was ready for a second, third, and fourth, I was still battling with my first. I wasn’t buying a drink for him only on my round because I’m tight, it’s because I couldn’t keep up.
One of my ex-boyfriends used to joke with people that on our first date, he spent a whopping 89p on me for a diet coke. It was true. Not sure that it counted as a ‘free’ drink though as we were officially together for two years and on and off for another two years after that. I also supported him financially for nearly a year when he was ill. He would have done the same for me. But MGTOW don’t base their beliefs on real people. They prefer inaccurate and outdated stereotypes.
The new Inside Amy Schumer episode had a fake commercial making fun of protects targeting women’s so-called vaginal odor. The video doesn’t appear to be up on YouTube yet, but there’s some gifs of it here.
https://hellogiggles.com/amy-schumer-took-on-vagina-shaming/
It was pretty hilarious. As was the sketch about getting a gyno exam from the all male congress committee on women’s health. I recommend watching the episode to whoever has the access to it right now even though the Betsy Ross musical skit fell flat IMO.
ETA: You can apparently watch it on the Comedy Central website, at least in the US. There’s a link at the bottom that hellogiggles post.
What’s up with the guy saying he “doesn’t get free entry”? How many bars has he been to? Most bars let everyone in for free. It’s only the more elitist ones that have cover charges.
@Fabian Prewett
That’s pretty much what I have told and tell my female friends – if it is ‘stanky’ go to the doctor, otherwise soap + water is more than adequate. I remember sitting at a planned parenthood years ago and waiting for my annual women’s wellness exam – another woman was a few seats away and the problematic odor she was experiencing was strong enough to smell across the room. The staff was nice to her but they did lecture a bit on why she needed to stop using douches and sprays.
Companies that see no problem with exploiting the insecurity of young women should have their CEOs and marketing dept./product developers forced down the path of Legos.
@wwth
The fact that there is an all male congressional committee on women’s health in the US makes it deserving to be skewered on tv – it also makes me wonder why there aren’t any women on the committee. I know there are only so many women in the senate/house to begin with and they may feel that other committees are more important but leaving decisions on women’s health to those without lady parts exclusively has so much potential for going very badly at some point.
Why would you need vaginal perfume? I doubt anyone notices how your genitals smell unless they’re burying their face in ’em. At that point, they probably wouldn’t mind, anyway!
@Zatar
Is there an area where only men hold doors open for women? I think I’ve had the door held open for me for as many times as I’ve held the door open for someone else.
Also, if holding the door open was something that ONLY men did, then this video would make no sense
https://youtu.be/Lc37qJV9NKY
@sparkalipoo
It’s chivalrous for a man to hold the door open for a woman. The man is supposed to rush forward and hold the door open for the woman, who is supposed to smile and thank him. This died out a while ago, but some men still insist on doing it and refuse to have a door held open for them by a woman. And these guys live in a fantasy world where everything works the way it did in movies from the 1950s when in fact it never worked that way any more than people came back up out of the grave like Night of the Living Dead. And they’re angry at these social expectations which aren’t expected of them, so they get angry at women. But they get angry both when women expect them to hold the door and when women would prefer to open the door themselves (the former is women being too lazy and dependent upon men to even open a door while the latter is evil feminazis who hate men).
@kootiepatra
but if they just didn’t frequent those bars, they wouldn’t be able to whine and complain
It’s the lead-based makeup of the modern era, isn’t it?
@Cthulhu’s Intern
yeah, I think the only time I had to pay a cover to get into a bar was on New Years Eve and the bar in question “free” champagne at midnight and had “free” New Years hats and glasses for everyone
@kupo
if you’re going to complain about your 1950s fantasy world you need to start living in the real world
@sparkalipoo
I’m not, though? Or do you mean the general you, meaning MGTOWS in this case?
My absolute favorite is the “let me push you out of the way so I can open the door for you.”
Although the “let me push you into the wall in a cramped corridor, so I can open the door for you” that a former boss used to pull all the time comes in a close second.
TMI alert-
Being a desert rat, I have my own approach to dealing with BO. I use lots of fenugreek in my food, which makes your perspiration smell vaguely like maple syrup. I also dust myself with a mixture of cocoa powder and cornstarch, which helps reduce sweating but also smells like fresh brownies baking when a little body heat and glisten is introduced. Apply a little of this to the hair down there smells beyond fantastic, and if your partner has a sweet tooth it’s a bonus for everybody.
I don’t think I’ve ever gotten into a place for free that wasn’t free for everybody, or was charged the same as everyone else. The few times I’ve gone to a bar with a guy I would buy myself one large bottle of some 9% fancy Belgian and take my time to savor it, whereas the guy would spend easily 4 times as much trying to get drunk on cans of Pabst or Keystone lite or some other terrible piss-water domestic. When they would ask if I was sure I didn’t want them to buy me one, I’d just let them try a sip of my beer and that would settle it. Then they’d stare at their own beer in disbelief because their whole world had just opened up.
I don’t get the “opening doors for women” thing. Don’t you just do that for everyone anyhow? I do, and it’s common for other people to open doors for people, but maybe that’s just where I live.