Men Going Their Own Way have a keen eye when it comes to spotting subtle injustices that the rest of us often miss.
Like, for example, the terrible injustice that is … fat chicks dating dudes who aren’t themselves fat.
One Reddit MGTOW recently reminded his comrades just how pervasive this terrible injustice has become in the contemporary world.
Preach it, brother!
Others in the MGTOW subreddit reported their own findings.
He THOUGHT he was happy. Just as the German citizens under Hitler THOUGHT they were free!
Little did he know that his life could have been snuffed out in a moment had his girlfriend — *shudder* — decided to sit on him. We have lost too many men, cut down in their prime by hambeast girlfriends who thought it might be “funny” to pretend that their boyfriends were chairs.
Another MGTOW Redditor applied some powerful STEM logic to the problem:
Can society long survive with the attractiveness ratio so far out of whack? What kind of world is it when dudes who are EIGHTS are saddled with level 5 plain janes? Or when men who are average joes find themselves trapped in completely voluntary relationships with level 2 hambeasts, some of whom are quite angry and/or stern.
It is the thoughtful ovendice — we’ve met him before — who brings real clarity and wisdom to this difficult issue.
I can’t argue with that! Mainly because I have no idea what he’s talking about. How does working hard prevent men from being pigs?
Here’s a song I don’t think MGTOWs are going to like very much.
NOTE: This post contains
I started to read it as a teenager (voluntarily – it was a gift) and, even then, decided that it was insufferable drek by about 1/3 of the way through. I then read the Cliffs Notes (so I could tell the gift-giver that I’d “read” it without having to torture myself) and decided it was also unmitigated bullshit.
Even many die-hard Atheists can agree that the Bible contains genuine pathos and poetry. Rand’s work is just awful all-around.
@ArgleBargle – I’m 5’9”. When I weighed in the mid-120s, people kept asking me, “Are you OK? Is everything OK?” (that, or they’d be oddly complimentary – “You look great! What’s your secret?” “Depression and not being able to afford to eat meals.”)
@kupo & Buttercup
I think I’ve given the impressions that these “introduction talks” are more formal than they actually are. It’s volunteer work, and resources are limited. I can’t have a third person there, and the whole thing needs to take less than 10 minutes, which usually isn’t a problem since there really aren’t too many things I need to get across.
Really, making sure they’re understanding me probably isn’t even my biggest problem with this. I can always email them later if they need additional information. Even if they don’t pay attention to anything I say, nothing catastrophic will happen. The most important things to know are, for example, “if you’re the only volunteer here, you need to cancel the whole thing”, “if you’re the first one here, you’re in charge of keeping count of the number of participants”, “when our time is up, our time is really up and we need to get out of here asap”, etc. There are no major safety issues or anything like that.
Instead, what really bothers me with these people is that I feel like they’re bad at cooperating, as a general quality. It’s just frustrating having to work with someone who can never be quiet and never seems to pay attention to anybody else. Last week, one of the worst “offenders” asked for my help with a problem, and then wouldn’t let me get a word in when I was trying to explain the solution. I just don’t know how they function in society.
/rage
I just saw something that made me smile and scratch my head at the same time.
The Reason Rally has apparently invited GZA, Raekwon, Method Man and Cappadonna from Wu-Tang to perform at the rally. I love the Wu, but “reason” isn’t the first word that comes to mind. It’s basically supposed to be an atheism themed event. Maybe these particular members have become non-religious in recent years? The Wu-Tang used to mix Islam with Buddhism and various sorts of mysticism as far as I can recall. Maybe that was all RZA? :p
The picture on top of this page is so damn cute :3
@A Space Alpaca –
And that is unacceptable.
The manosphere has declared that you MUST only be ACTUALLY attracted to built and improbably handsome Alphas.
Or that you MUST be attracted to skinny, nerdy Betas in order to help spread their provider genes.
Regardless, either way – you’re personing WRONG.
You’re WRONG and you’re WHY their lives are AWFUL.
/s
Incidentally, I didn’t know my husband when he was a young man, but I’ve seen pictures. Ohhhh, I’ve seen pictures. He was a skinny nerd* with a cute smile and shy-but-mischievous eyes and a mop of extremely curly hair.
I would’ve wrecked him.
REEEEEKKKT him.
But, all in all, it’s probably a good thing that we hadn’t met back then as there would have been chafing.
*Nerd inasmuch as his life circumstances at the time would allow. I’d elaborate, but it becomes tediously tl;dr whenever I do.
@IP – Sorry! I got all focused on the “how can I get my information across”, and not so much on the interruption part. 🙂 Ugh. I’ve had to deal with people like that too. I’m fairly soft-spoken, and people see that as a cue to interrupt and talk over me all the time.
If the interruption isn’t too long, and doesn’t have anything to do with what you’re saying, try simply resuming in mid-sentence as if they hadn’t said anything. Picture a stream flowing right around an obstructive rock. You have a spiel and only 10 minutes to convey it, so any outside chitchat is going to be a non sequitur. For some people, that’s enough to get the message.
If it’s really bad, don’t hesitate to hold up a hand and say “I’m interested to hear your thoughts, but please let me finish before reacting.” (Don’t say “interrupt”, because that puts them on the defensive”) Do it as often as needed. Some people need it clearly spelled out for them. Physical gestures are useful for signalling that you’re still talking, and can distract them a little bit from wanting to interrupt.
Other things that might help: keep your sentences short and simple, try not to leave pauses in the conversation that might invite them to jump in, and speak quietly (but animatedly) so that they have to work a little bit to hear you. It’s counter-intuitive, but for certain types of interrupters, something about speaking quietly shuts off the combative “I have to win this conversation!” instinct. It gives the impression that they’re hearing something important, and confidential.
Good luck. It can be really frustrating trying to get things across to people who make it difficult. Especially with volunteers, who come from all walks of life, aren’t getting paid, and don’t have to be there (well, usually…sometimes volunteers aren’t there, er, voluntarily).
@Imaginary Petal
Sounds like you’ve got some compulsive talkers on your hands. (I apologize if I’m making an Internet diagnosis.)
What I try to do is be patient. I give them a certain amount of time, say, 5 minutes or 10 minutes. Then I direct them to the task. I try to keep bringing the subject back to the task. I thank them and compliment them.
I’d say that patience is key. Also key: being willing to change the subject, continually bringing the person back to the task at hand.
You won’t be able to turn them into quiet people. You just have to give them the information and let go of your ideas about how they’ll process the information. The suggestions about a bulleted list were brilliant. When they ask follow-up questions, you’ll usually be able to refer them back to the bulleted list.
@jy3, Social Justice Beguiler – ah yes, “How to Marry a Millionaire” and the like. Thanks for reminding me of that whole genre – FemPUAs even get reality shows.
I suffered through the main Ayn Rand tomes – Atlas Shrugged, the Fountainhead, hmmm, was there one more? – back when I would read constantly and I would read just about anything. I think it’s “worth” the read in a similar way Moby Dick is worth it – mostly to have done it (although I happen to be one of those people who feels Melville has an amazing sense of humor and Moby Dick is chock full of laffs – Rand is not so blessed).
I don’t think she’s all THAT terrible as a writer, although she does tend to go on and on and on and ON. Her “philosophy”, however, is truly terrible.
I do think people in the U.S. should probably read it, simply because of the stranglehold actual Randians have had on our economy in the last 40 years.
But nobody is REQUIRED to read it. I certainly don’t waste time anymore reading things I know will be infuriating to me.
@Kat is totally on to something with this:
Brilliant! That’s how I have to deal with my boss. He constantly interrupts, and very plainly stops listening if he’s not the one talking. He’s never going to change, I just have to wait until he finally runs out of steam.
The cover photo for this is adorable!!!
Also, something tells me LEaving came back under a name with similarly misplaced capital letters. Unless POIsonous is some kind of joke? Anyway, Snake-o, you’re still doing a poor job of trolling.
@Buttercup
Exactly what I usually do. :p
Unless it’s a relevant question or request for clarification, I just treat whatever they say as irrelevant noise, because frankly it is.
Physical gestures is great advice. I’ll definitely try to keep that in mind.
@Kat
Yeah, I often end up concluding that if they’ve missed certain pieces of information, on some level it’s their failing. All I can do is tell them what the need to know.
The problem is when their inability to listen creates more work for me. I always expect to do a certain amount of “clean-up” work, but it’s frustrating when I know it could’ve been avoided entirely.
Awww. Are someone’s widdle feelings hurt that we don’t like Ayn Rand?
They’re never any good at trolling.
When I’m elected president, trolls will be living on snake island. Or buried under the stadium. The power of Katie compels them…to hurl themselves over a cliff into the ocean. Where sharks live.
I highly, highly recommend reading “Neurotribes” if you haven’t. It made me pretty confident that I am at least in the “quirky family members” category when it comes to autism. So is about half my family tree. My grandpa on one side, grandma on the other, and myself all taught ourselves to read at age 2. When my son did it, and also wasn’t really talking yet, and didn’t understand pointing or use correct pronouns (mixing up “you” and “I” past when most kids do), I thought “aha!” and got him diagnosed. I’m sure my grandpa would have gotten a diagnosis if he’d been born 100 years later.
Anyway, I consider autistic people my “tribe” and am always happy to meet other members of it. 🙂
How long before the troll mentions “the regressive left”? 🙂
Be specific. Who has done that?
Shorter LEaving a POIsonius Snack: it’s about ethics in evopsych.
Leaving’s sockpuppet,
You’re full of crap. I’m sorry you have bad taste in books and no idea how human relationships, economics or biology works. You should really do something about that. Because you’re a damn fool and you’ve miseducated yourself into that state.
I wish the internet had been around when I was in Jr. High. I would have given a lot to learn that there were women attracted to skinny bi geeks back then. Probably would have saved everyone from the Nice Guy phase.
@poisonous snackiepoo
1) How about instead of your imaginings about what FrickleFrackle is saying you deal with what they are actually saying. That’s quite a way to ignore their point about the quality of the followers suggesting things about the quality of the work. You are a shitty salesperson. Why should I care about what’s in the book? It’s not FF’s or my job to sell it.
2) Feel free to point the sources you are referring to with respect to the 70-95% disparity. It’s common for there to be some disagreement over the magnitude of things in social science and if you are simply choosing to support the number that you are more comfortable with it’s reasonable to know why.
>I don’t think it terribly productive to assert that it is; that is almost a sort of “god of the gaps” argument for feminists.
It’s a reasonable explanation given lots of other observations with respect to discrimination and prejudice in general. Formerly male-person dominated fields see a pay drop, female engineers get cited less despite publishing in better journals (this pattern exists throughout STEM fields), and you see similar patterns with respect to race (“black seeming” resumes are chosen less often, institutional racism in may parts of society). That you choose to believe the reasoning is fallacious says more about your ability to read what feminists are saying, hence my request for your sources.
3) What Pandspool said looks right on the mark to me. If there is some truth that we are missing feel free to point it out. If it’s “just human biology” it should be easy for you to point out.
4) (and connected to 1) Personally I think that logic also applies to other works. If a philosophy or other belief structure is making someone act shitty it’s worth it to be skeptical of it.
Also I see feminists criticize the sexism in Islam often, and I see feminists critisize the sexism that they personally face more often like people tend to do with problems they personally face. AND I see feminists criticize the smaller examples that make the larger ones more likely and acceptable.
So far you do not have much of value to say.
@Imaginary Petal:
I don’t know if your Dr. discussed this, but you may find that your symptoms will get worse over the next two-three weeks before they start to get better. Or you may find that this SSRI doesn’t do much at all beyond give you side effects. Try not to be too discouraged if this happens, there are other meds they can try, and you are certainly not alone in this. I hope it all goes well for you.
@a POIsonous snack
Hello! I see we have another libertarian here. What a strange string of drop-ins we’ve had from the alt right!
http://orig12.deviantart.net/b1ce/f/2013/006/0/0/fluttershy_skips_by_eeglfethr-d5qpka8.gif
I will try to be brief, as you’ve covered a few topics in your brief time here so far. First, regarding your argument of:
As it turns out, this is a perfectly valid method of choosing reading material! There is enough quality, worthwhile literature in the world that no one could read it all, even an appreciable chunk of it. We have to choose how we use our limited time, and using the metric of “everyone I know who likes this book is kind of a dick” is a perfectly reasonable way to filter out the, uh, the less quality material.
Not that I support ignoring works that challenge our perspectives! Far from it. The goal of reading worthwhile literature is to build up a worthwhile character – to grow in compassion, in wisdom, and in perspective. Ayn Rand’s works are a restriction of these.
And then on to the argument of:
Yes, you’re right! Women choose these lower-paid positions. This leaves us with two interesting questions:
1) Why do they choose these positions?
2) Why are they lower-paid?
Surely you have good answers for these. I have answers, but I’m curious – how do you answer these questions?
I’m also going to point out your little addendum here:
You appear to be an atheist, with the ‘god of the gaps’ statement. Which is fine – so am I! Feminism requires as much faith as Atheism does – exactly none.
If you do some research, you’ll find that a great deal of work has gone into the study of where the roots of this phenomenon come from. If you would like to argue against the conclusions of these studies, you should probably look at the studies first!
Next is your comment to Panda:
This is not, in fact, human biology! The whole HBD movement so popular in the alt-right and manosphere is built upon a foundation of shoddy journalism.
1) Journalists read the abstract of a white paper, or a press release from a lab, that claims to have found some difference between men and women (or caucasians and asians, or whatever poorly-differentiated group of humans you like) and then write a sensationalist article about it to grab eyeballs. They aren’t scientists, so don’t understand that that n=30 or the “cohort of undergraduate volunteers” part of the study really limit its conclusions.
2) A huge host of people read the headline and the article and swallow it whole. They don’t have access to the white paper, and don’t know how to judge its methodologies anyways. All of a sudden, a finding of ~p difference within a tiny, biased sample size becomes unshakeable evidence.
3) A segment of people who read the headline and article find that it reinforces their preconceptions. They integrate it into their philosophy as “evidence”, and denigrate anyone who disagrees. Which is where we are now!
Please, do yourself a favour and learn a little research methodology and statistics. Go read the original articles! Be critical! This sort of critical analysis is at the heart of science (and at the heart of feminism). It’s good for you!
P.S.: In the future, perhaps not so much of a gish gallop? It’s tempting to bring out all the toys, but perhaps it’s more productive to take out each idea at a time, and finish with it, before bringing out the next.
@ Alan Robertshaw
I would never disparage a woman for her looks, and good for Barbra Streisand for standing up for herself and keeping that nose. However, I’ve never thought of her as conventionally attractive or popularly considered to be so. Just goes to show that everyone’s tastes are different, I guess.
@ dreemr
Did you read Anthem? That’s the other Rand novel; we read it in junior high, though I’d just discovered Le Guin at the time and therefore wished the Earthsea trilogy had been assigned instead.
If there’s anyone interested in seeing Atlas Shrugged examined, I recommend Adam Lee’s series of posts, especially for the bits where commenters imagine how the book could be improved with appearances by Cobra Commander, the Avengers, and Doctor Doom.