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antifeminism empathy deficit entitled babies evil fat fatties men who should not ever be with women ever MGTOW misogyny

“A short ugly hambeast gamed him and got him,” and other tales of MGTOW woe

Is this how the world ends?
Is this how the world ends?

Men Going Their Own Way have a keen eye when it comes to spotting subtle injustices that the rest of us often miss.

Like, for example, the terrible injustice that is … fat chicks dating dudes who aren’t themselves fat.

One Reddit MGTOW recently reminded his comrades just how pervasive this terrible injustice has become in the contemporary world.

Walked round a crowded shopping mall yesterday. (self.MGTOW) submitted 1 day ago by bombow I kept seeing handsome, pleasant naive looking young guys hand in hand with stern angry fat women. NO NO NO

Preach it, brother!

Others in the MGTOW subreddit reported their own findings.

DforDeadpool 4 points 20 hours ago We had a guy when we were in high school. He was tall, athletic, handsome. He was the silent type. A short ugly hambeast gamed him and got him. They dated for 3 years (didn't see them after HS). He thought he was pretty happy.

He THOUGHT he was happy. Just as the German citizens under Hitler THOUGHT they were free!

Little did he know that his life could have been snuffed out in a moment had his girlfriend — *shudder* — decided to sit on him. We have lost too many men, cut down in their prime by hambeast girlfriends who thought it might be “funny” to pretend that their boyfriends were chairs.

Another MGTOW Redditor applied some powerful STEM logic to the problem:

lauranium 1 point 18 hours ago It's about a 3 point difference right now...8 level men get level 5 women...yup it's rough out there....most men are morons in terms of value

Can society long survive with the attractiveness ratio so far out of whack? What kind of world is it when dudes who are EIGHTS are saddled with level 5 plain janes? Or when men who are average joes find themselves trapped in completely voluntary relationships with level 2 hambeasts, some of whom are quite angry and/or stern.

It is the thoughtful ovendice — we’ve met him before — who brings real clarity and wisdom to this difficult issue.

Ovendice 5 points 16 hours ago They don't have to stay thin because there are so many desperate men, Feminism tells them staying attractive and thin is 'oppressive' and most women are pigs anyway. Seriously, Feminists call men pigs, but there TRULY is a night and day difference, most women are completely self absorbed and beyond greedy and entitled. It's hard for men to even BE pigs even if they tried because we literally have to work for everything. Women just get a free ride and everything for free.

I can’t argue with that! Mainly because I have no idea what he’s talking about. How does working hard prevent men from being pigs?

Here’s a song I don’t think MGTOWs are going to like very much.

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Imaginary Petal
Imaginary Petal
5 years ago

@radiojane

Hi! I didn’t see your comment until now. Maybe I just missed it, or maybe you were stuck in moderation?

Anyway, thanks for the heads up. My doctor has actually informed me of all these things already and I’m going back in 3 weeks for evaluation.

Side note: Thank fuck for women doctors. I don’t know how much of this is coincidence but every good doctor I’ve ever had has been a woman. This one was also a former refugee from Iran. I.e. one of those terrible people who ruin our country in various ways, for example by prescribing SSRIs to depressed people. /s

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
5 years ago

(tl;dr: one does not to read something to refute it if one sees issues in the foundation upon which that work is based.)

@a POIsonous snack

Ah! Welcome back. We get a lot of drive-by’s here, so I wasn’t sure if you’d be back.

comment image

I’ll ignore comparisons to LEaving, as it’s sort of beside the point.

You’ve chosen an odd place to plant your flag and make your stand, sir! (assuming that you are a sir of course). It’s good that you’ve done your homework! When you care about being right in a field, it’s always good to do your research, after all.

So you’ve refuted Christianity, or at least those aspects of it supported by those texts! When will you be moving on to the Qur’an and Hadith? The Vedas? The Upanishads, the Bhagavad Gita? The I Ching and Guru Granth Sahib? I can go on forever here, as you well know.

This is a trap, sir. Not my trap, mind you – it’s a trap of thinking, indicative of someone trying to defend their tribe instead of thinking clearly. You and I both know it! One does not have to read every text in order to refute something. Explorations do not have to go on forever.

This is in fact a common Atheist position – I don’t have to read all of those religious texts to refute the position they take! If my issue is with the foundation of faith and the supernatural, I don’t need to argue about whether there is any truth in the Talmud. You’ll find that Steve Harris, Aron Ra and others have taken this position in the past, and it’s a good position.

So too with Atlas Shrugged and Objectivism (which is anything but objective). I don’t need to read it to refute it, when I already see flaws in its foundation of selfishness deified.

Humanity is a social creature whose strengths lie in cooperation, and always have. Until I see evidence that this might not be true, I am not being unreasonable in ignoring Objectivism as a stunted offshoot of a flawed Austrian-Model philosophy.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

We do, however, say that anti-feminists should actually engage with the media that they’re, oh, making a movie about.

True! I have no desire to read Atlas Shrugged for pleasure or for better internet arguing. But I would read if I planned on making a documentary about how terrible it was.

Saffron
Saffron
5 years ago

Anti-feminists, rather than Googling for example “rape culture meaning” come to the conclusion that when we say “rape culture” we are saying “all men are rapists” when we are saying nothing of the sort.

Oh, god, so much this. If you think “the patriarchy” means “men,” that’s a rookie mistake that can be easily fixed by a few minutes with Google. If you think “rape culture” means “all men are rapists,” you could simply Google something like “feminism and male rape” and get information on what actual feminists believe about rape:

http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/12/male-rape-epidemic/

The idea that victims, particularly male victims, actually want to be assaulted is the cornerstone of one of the more insidious myths about male rape, the “hot for teacher” phenomenon that dictates that women never rape men, implying that men are always along for the ride.

Anderson says he’s spoken with many men who are sexually abused by women who were told that they should “consider themselves lucky.”

According to Lisak, “somewhere around a third of men who are sexually abused as children are abused by women,” and while every case of sexual assault is unique, many of the cases of men being sexually abused by women involve a power imbalance.

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
5 years ago

@Alpine, RN

:O

Thank you for the website! It is lovely and I have now bookmarked it.

I had considered going with “Wælcyrge” (Valkyrie) as a name, but that was perhaps a little too hard on the ol’ linguistic apparatus.

Alpine, RN
Alpine, RN
5 years ago

@scildfreja- I’m a herald in the SCA, I can document names like woah 😝

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

@ Scildfreja
Thank you for the pronunciation. A better general idea is better than nothing.

Re: Argument styles.
A society with a diversity in styles is a very good thing. If you specialize in a more gentle and accommodating style that will be receptive to some people and that is a fine thing, and I hear that it’s good to play to one’s strengths and use them strategically than be okay at more than one thing. My confrontational style has its strengths and limits and not everyone will be receptive to such, and it does take some effort to learn to function well under such intense emotion. I often find that I need to socially isolate myself in order to process things best (which I have to do less over time).

In fact I wish more people were receptive to your style. In fact sometimes (when strategically appropriate) this white masculine male “bad cop” can make other groups feel like “good cop” and they get listened to more. Accommodating the whole range of kinds of people is a smart thing for a society to do, especially in social conflicts. I try to be complementary and accommodating to people in a different way and adapt to the individual social environment.
Also ponies…
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@ Kootiepatra
A lot of this is anecdotal, but I have some thoughts in this area. When I think about how we get “programmed” for what we are attracted to I consider the phenomena of sexual fetishes to be useful, except that attraction in general includes more than those sorts of things.

We are capable of absorbing features and tying them to our later preferences, and there seems to be quite a large diversity to what is possible. I think of us as being very “emotionally sloppy” in how precise it is (probably a reason why society is so sensitive to these things, it’s a social tool among other things). Similarly in phobias we pick up environmental features that get tied to fear responses.

It’s not so easy to define yet but I think that there are periods in our life where we are relatively sensitive (or insensitive, relative to the population at large) to various characteristics of people and even groups of people as our society defines them, and during those periods we can get imprinted on those things. Things like physical features, beliefs, ways of acting and more. Our experiences and messages that our society gives us are both likely sources of information here. It’s probably more than one period with different emphasis on what we are sensitive or insensitive to.

I have often thought of myself as “omnisexual” in ways. The list of things that I can be attracted to is longer than the one that I’m not or can’t be attracted to and I can remember periods of my life where I was intensely curious about things and that curiosity was never really satisfied by my culture. Some of the things I did encounter during those times are things that I can say act as fetishes (so much so that I take care not to fetishize people). Additionally some of the things my society tried to tell me I should not be attracted (like homosexuality) are things that are included in material I enjoy, and I have would could be considered an oppositional psychology with respect to social issues which probably affects things here. (That was why I appealed to being less sensitive to some things earlier, it’s a thing I largely have control of).

Other people might be more or sensitive to things based on factors like experience, social information and more. I’m personally certain that there are inherited predispositions that are in play as well as the reason my psychology is what it is has a strong inherited component. None of this argues for people’s tastes being set in stone because we can and do change when it comes to these attractions as well, but some things might be harder to change than others. Experiences and social information probably help here, and at the worst you simply have your own preferences and can control what you do with them as well as get an idea about how you may have gotten them.

Also the way we feel about things that we might not find attractive can change if we form an attachment to another person based on other things. We can discover ourselves becoming attracted to things about the people we form attachments with that we previously were neutral and even negative about. It’s quite a complex but fascinating picture and your part of it depends on your experiences, information you absorbed and general personality.

a POIsonous snack
a POIsonous snack
5 years ago

You’re all using faith to discredit Ayn Rand’s work, and you have no idea of the ideas expressed by her supporters or her detractors are correct or not; they could very well be common misrepresentations, borrowed from one another. People on the left generally complain about how unfair it is when people bring Marx’s work into disrepute by pointing to the atrocities of the USSR, or point to the failures of Latin American socialism; why do you insist on pointing to the attitudes of those who claim to be followers of her as a reason for not reading her? Her ideas are very influential in modern American politics, and it would be ridiculous of you to overlook them.

And yes, I very well do think of a good many of you as belonging to the “regressive left,” due to the fact that whenever someone criticizes Islam, you feel it necessary to step in and defend Muslims; Islam has a problem, and you need to acknowledge it. I think it quite hypocritical that you demand “safe spaces” and the like for women, and go on about how men are such a danger to women, but when someone applies the same logic to Muslims (I.E. getting scared, like any rational person would, when seeing them on a plane) you all complain about “Islamaphobia.” Prove me wrong.

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
5 years ago

@Brony,

“Overspecialize and you breed in weakness.”

You are correct! A diverse approach is the most robust.

This applies both to a group and to an individual. Hm, maybe I should practice being aggressive for a bit.

http://i.imgur.com/mC0r4lQ.gif

a POIsonous snack
a POIsonous snack
5 years ago

How many of you have used the “you didn’t even read her thesis!” in order to defend Allison Rapp?

Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut

Policy of Madness | April 19, 2016 at 9:41 pm
I have a sneaking suspicion that he’s pretending to be Russian, complete with a racist impersonation of how 4Chan thinks Russians talk, but slipped up and gave the game away by calling America both his and not-his. Presumably as a setup for that “YOU’RE ALL AS BAD AS THE COMMIES!!!” bit at the end.
I have no idea how many men in Russia know enough about American “cultural brainwashing” to put a number of years on how long it has allegedly been happening, or give even the first shit about something so pettily domestic, but my guess is that the number is quite low!

Actually, I think Leaving was pretending to be a Russian woman, as they mentioned that they talked to an “American” man who “didn’t have the courage to put [Leaving] in [their] place”.

Shaenon | April 20, 2016 at 12:31 am
What is an “equality tattoo” and where can I get one?

That’s easy. Just pledge to be like everypony else and live in Starlight Glimmer’s little commune. Of course, this means you need to give up your cutie mark first.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/b/bf/Starlight_proud_for_taking_Twilight's_cutie_mark_S5E1.png

a POIsonous snack | April 20, 2016 at 3:30 am
@Pandapool
Of course, I’m assuming that you’re a woman, in which case, most of this is already known to you (albeit on a deep, subconscious, primal level that might be unbeknownst to you), but this speaks, I think, to your ability to delude yourselves into thinking that you’re not like this. This is just human biology.

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STOP! Misgendering! My! Datemate! You! Fucking! Turnip!

For fuck’s sake! Their pronouns are right there in their username you shit!

Use them!

mockingbird | April 20, 2016 at 2:26 pm

I’ve rarely seen feminists say that one needs to read several books on feminism before they can discuss the subject. Just that you should engage with what we’re actually saying rather than what anti-feminists are saying we’re saying.

We do, however, say that anti-feminists should actually engage with the media that they’re, oh, making a movie about.

QFT.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
5 years ago

STOP! Misgendering! My! Datemate! You! Fucking! Turnip!

For fuck’s sake! Their pronouns are right there in their username you shit!

Use them!

Thanks, babe. I’m pretty sure they just said that to be an asshole anyway. It worked.

They’re probably assuming EVERYONE here is a cis woman on the fact many of us here are feminists.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

@Scildfreja
At the group level overspecialization can indeed be a weakness, but with something like aggression and arguments in a situation like that I would not necessarily characterize lack of ability as weakness in an individual (things like self-care for example). It certainly can be useful to gain a general understanding though.

While I am doing planning for that project that might be a blog at FTB, if I can offer some pointers or give suggestions involving problems I would be willing to give them. For one thing putting space between a draft and actually posting it would be a really good habit. Very often our “knee-jerk” replies are very problematic and even now I sometimes put a night’s rest between a draft and posting it. I certainly often give it a couple of hours to think about it.

Imaginary Petal
Imaginary Petal
5 years ago

@a POIsonous snack

It’s time for you to fuck off.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
5 years ago

Also, thank you, Subtract Hominem, the Renegade Misandroid, for also correcting that asshole and sorry I missed you before.

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
5 years ago

((Saffron’s post is migrating down the page D: I wonder where it is going?

Fly, little post! Be free!))

It’s true that individuals are often better to specialize; it was really more of a general statement to try to remember to be flexible. (It is also a quote from Ghost in the Shell; i’m not sure why that one stuck with me on that one but it did)

I always try to let a post cool before pressing “send”, too! It’s important to remember that the first thing one writes is usually not the best, and the application of some time will often let your perspective mature. A great number of times I’ve written a big long post, given it a few minutes, then came back only to delete it all and replace it with a couple of sentences.

Brevity, soul of wit, etc!

a POIsonous snack
a POIsonous snack
5 years ago

@Imaginary Petal

Name: a POIsonous snack

Trigger Status:

[ ] Not triggered
[ ] Kind of triggered
[ ] I can’t even…
[ ] Triggered
[ ] Def triggered!
[x] HELLA TRIGGERED!!!

Reason for Entriggerment:

Ableism: Was told to “fuck off.” Cannot and will not fuck, because impotent and asexual.

The offender is set to appear before the High Cuck Council to determine an appropriate punishment. The offender will be bringing snacks to the hearing; please be aware of gluten allergies, individual ethical inclinations, and the possibility of culturally-appropriating a dish. Thank you.

Saffron
Saffron
5 years ago

You’re all using faith to discredit Ayn Rand’s work, and you have no idea of the ideas expressed by her supporters or her detractors are correct or not; they could very well be common misrepresentations, borrowed from one another.

Intentionally ignoring the fact that a bunch of us said we have read Ayn Rand, or didn’t read closely enough to notice? Either way, blatantly inaccurate. I’ve read two of her books; how many books by prominent feminist thinkers have you read?

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
5 years ago

@ a POIsonous snack,

comment image

oh my.

Do you really think that “triggering” is equivalent to “being offended” or “being irritated”? Because it is not. It is not about being over-sensitive, or upset about being hurt cause you hurt my fee-fees.

Do try again though! I’d suggest maybe not using a repurposed decade-old meme, though. Freshen it up! You seem like a creative sort of person, I’m sure you can come up with something witty and inciteful. I suggest using anime gifs and Trump references, they seem to be in fashion these days.

This post contains 4% of your daily recommended intake of sass

WeirwoodTreeHugger
WeirwoodTreeHugger
5 years ago

Is poisonous snack going into meltdown mode already? All because we don’t like Ayn Rand? My, what a fragile little flower. He hasn’t even been here 24 hours yet and nobody has been too mean yet. Weak.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

a repurposed decade-old meme

That meme goes back to, at least, the early 1990s. I first saw it on FidoNet, and it wasn’t the height of wit then, either. Minimum, it is 25-years stale.

a POIsonous snack
a POIsonous snack
5 years ago

@weirwoodtreehugger

I’m “going into meltdown” because my posts are being removed. I produced at least several more posts on this site, and none of them have been allowed to surface. My questions cannot therefore be answered by the commentators. The creator and maintainers of this website care very little for free expression; they are far too invested in the business of coddling their regulars, thus negating the possibility that more conservative voices can be heard here. This comments section is far from the ideal market place free ideas that is so fundamental to western civilization.

@Scildfreja

What’s with all the horse gifs?

Okay then, so what IS triggering? Because it sure does seem like a bunch of oversensitive people to me.

Axecalibur
Axecalibur
5 years ago

The offender will be bringing snacks to the hearing; please be aware of gluten allergies, individual ethical inclinations, and the possibility of culturally-appropriating a dish. Thank you

comment image
http://esq.h-cdn.co/assets/15/21/1432152088-o740d.gif

Thing is, that’s a stupid joke, but it’s still an effective one, after a fashion. Exaggerating a worldview and perceived set of behaviors and contrasting it with the banality of snacks. Add in that your nym incorporates snacks… bravo. Almost
See, I can’t tell how much of what was said is an actual joke. Oh, some of it surely is, but how much are you really exaggerating? Do you really think people have convenient ‘how triggered am I by this’ checklists? Do you really think classifying the phrase ‘fuck off’ as ableist is making a point? Do you really think there’s some kinda authority, official or otherwise, that hunts down and punishes social justice wrongdoers? If you were to answer yes to any of those questions, I’d believe you. Kinda ruins the joke, buddy

a POIsonous snack
a POIsonous snack
5 years ago

Arabs… Blacks…Latinos…Whites…

Long ago, the four races lived in harmony. Then, everything changed when the nonwhites attacked. Only Der Furher, master of all races, could stop them. But when the world needed him most, he committed suicide. Roughly 70 years passed, and America discovered a new Furher, an orange business mogul named Trump. Though his support his great, he’s got a long way to go before he’s ready to be president. But I believe that Trump will make America great again.

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
5 years ago

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1vu8lmcNe1r6frako1_400.gif

‘kay!

I’ll be quick, so that it’s easier to read!

and you have no idea of the ideas expressed by her supporters or her detractors are correct or not

Look, someone in this thread who read it and thought it was terrible! Someone who points to has read Rand and also points to other critiques about Rand! And another! And another! And another! And another! All in this thread! If you peruse throught he site, you’ll find that many of us have read it. Those who haven’t are trusting other people who are more informed and have done the hard work. Which is exactly how society works! (science does this too! That’s what references are about, allowing people to follow the chain of inference if they want to)

People on the left generally complain about how unfair it is when people bring Marx’s work into disrepute by pointing to the atrocities of the USSR, or point to the failures of Latin American socialism; why do you insist on pointing to the attitudes of those who claim to be followers of her as a reason for not reading her?

The difference between these two is that it is disingenuous. Marx was naive in his communist theories, and the USSR was a failure to live up to those ideas – a reasonable failure, of course, because communism as Marx wrote it required that every person involved be a saint.

In Rands’ objectivist world, the expected outcome is misery for most of humanity. Marx’s philosophies were naive. Rands’ philosophies are evil.

This is of course debatable! You can claim that bringing about Rand’s objectivist wonderland would be an end to suffering and an era of true freedom and peace and happiness for all mankind. But I’d say that you’re the one living in a fantasy land, in that case!

Her ideas are very influential in modern American politics, and it would be ridiculous of you to overlook them.

Who said we overlook them? We don’t overlook them. As above; many people here have read it, and find it abhorrent. As for me, I have studied objectivism directly in its philosophical works, because I have far too much to do in the day to drag myself through the tortured prose of a self-hating egotistical abusive freeloader like Rand.

Also, I am not American, so it doesn’t really affect me as much!

And yes, I very well do think of a good many of you as belonging to the “regressive left,” due to the fact that whenever someone criticizes Islam, you feel it necessary to step in and defend Muslims; Islam has a problem, and you need to acknowledge it.

You’re right! There are some awful things in Islam, or more particularly, in some interpretations of the Islamic faith. Just like there are some awful things in flavours of Christianity, and some awful things in flavours of Atheism. Even though Atheism isn’t a religion!

Almost like there’s sometimes awful things in how people think, regardless of their belief system!

We here on this side of the ideological aisle are trying to avoid playing into the hands of ISIL and the terr’ists by refusing to demonize entire segments of humanity. That’s what they want. That gives them power and strength.

Why would you want to give them the power and credibility? I certainly don’t. I’m proud that my country has welcomed the refugees from Syria with open arms, and wish that we could take in more. I’m happy to invite them into my own community. May they live long and happy lives with us.

I think it quite hypocritical that you demand “safe spaces” and the like for women, and go on about how men are such a danger to women, but when someone applies the same logic to Muslims (I.E. getting scared, like any rational person would, when seeing them on a plane) you all complain about “Islamaphobia.” Prove me wrong.

http://www.radiomuseo.it/joomla/images/collector/collection/dischi/lilla%20vacabonda%20%2001.gif

Ah, yes. When you dig deep enough into the right’s mindset, you always find fear.

I’m sorry if that is harsh – I don’t mean it to be! You’ve admitted it here, and that takes a certain amount of bravery. Let me provide you with some of my own context here.

I have sat beside muslims on busses nearly every day of my life. I have worked beside them, been friends with them, been their clients and their servers. I am not afraid of them, nor have I any reason to be. I’ve worked beside Saudi and Lebanese and Somali, and all were wonderful. In North America, I’m far more likely to be killed by a Christian dominionist than I am a muslim, statistically.

You are allowed to be afraid – nor do you need to justify it! Fear is an emotion, and we have very limited control over these things.

Your fear is not justification to harangue or harass others, however. Nor is it enough to forbid them freedom of movement, freedom to own property, or any other freedoms that the civilized world enjoys. Fear is irrational and untrustworthy – look to statistics and to cool discourse for truth.

I would suggest that you limit your exposure to stressors – to Fox news or websites that advocate fearing or aggression! Thes eprovide little in the way of new information, and instead tend to provide nothing but adrenaline. This clouds thinking and makes the foolish or evil seem reasonable.

As for “proving you wrong” – you can’t prove a fear wrong. Fear is a hormone balance within the brain, and can be no more proved than the null set. It is within the kernel from which rationality arises.

I only hope that you can overcome your fear, and learn to judge each individual on their merits.

a POIsonous snack
a POIsonous snack
5 years ago

his is of course debatable! You can claim that bringing about Rand’s objectivist wonderland would be an end to suffering and an era of true freedom and peace and happiness for all mankind. But I’d say that you’re the one living in a fantasy land, in that case!

I didn’t say that at all. I’m not saying that an objectivist society would be free from problems, but I think it would be a better way to organize society in general. It’s Marx and the other assorted leftists with their anarchism and socialism who think that we can just create a world where fairness and equality reign. That’s not how humans work at all.

Why would you want to give them the power and credibility? I certainly don’t. I’m proud that my country has welcomed the refugees from Syria with open arms, and wish that we could take in more. I’m happy to invite them into my own community. May they live long and happy lives with us.

You act like your country is so compassionate for doing this, but when one of those cretins heads south and blows up Americans, what will you say? You’re bringing them closer to us, you’re lucky we don’t invade your country.

In North America, I’m far more likely to be killed by a Christian dominionist than I am a muslim, statistically.

That won’t be the case if you keep letting them in; you’re only more likely to be killed by a CD because their numbers are higher in the west than Muslims. They do terrible things on a daily basis in their own neck of the woods – if you had more in your country, you’d probably have more terrorism from them. You might be more likely to be attacked by a CD, but individual Muslims are more likely to engage in terrorism.

WeirwoodTreeHugger
WeirwoodTreeHugger
5 years ago

I should note that while I have not read any of Ayn Rand’s novels, I have seen and read interviews with her, seen a documentary about her, and read excerpts of her writing. I suspect the same would be true of others in the thread who didn’t read her novels. Not reading her books =/= only has 2nd or 3rd hand knowledge of her opinions.

Saffron
Saffron
5 years ago
Reply to  David Futrelle

I vote let them through, but I have a high tolerance for terrible things.

isidore13
isidore13
5 years ago

@David, has he made any substantive responses or just meltdowned?

FrickleFrackle
FrickleFrackle
5 years ago

I return to this thread to find out that POIsonous said cuck! Oh, joy! Thanks for the bingo space, man!

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

Awww….they are gone? I was just going to ask how it is that they think that “fuck off” is ablist. Trying to appropriate the sensitivities of another to gain the upper hand in a conflict is a pretty standard authoritarian tactic of a kind with “reverse racism”. It’s interesting seeing the attempts to defend it on occasion though, there is always a new spin on these things. I can see the twisting from that point of view of another conflict minded person, but I would be curious about what asexuals think about the specifics on that one.

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
5 years ago

I am okay with letting them through! Mostly I am curious how he plans on “rebutting” me. I imagine it’s a lot of “whargarbl terrism” but I hope that there is a germ of communication in there!

I will abstain to others, however; if anyone is troubled by it then it shouldn’t be continued.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

To be clear if anyone does not want them to come back I am fine with that too. It would be better if the sensitivities and interests of others be served than mine in this context.

FrickleFrackle
FrickleFrackle
5 years ago

I’m okay with him returning but eh, that’s just me.

Msexceptiontotherule
Msexceptiontotherule
5 years ago

Re: attraction to and finding someone attractive

Idris (lead on the show Luther) is an attractive man. Not my type but I can objectively (cough) see why he was cast as a lead and continues to work in Hollywood especially with his high level of talent as an actor.

Lennox Lewis, not my usual type but if I had a time machine and went back to when he was roughly mid-career as a boxer to meet him for to have the sex, yes I do believe I would. But this isn’t simply based on his looks, there’s something about how gracefully he moved in the ring – like a dancer almost – which make him attractive to me.

My usual type – the guy who played the first vamp/Dracula in blade 3, or the guy playing Ragnar Lothbrok in Vikings, oh and the guy from hbo’s Rome (Ray I forget the last name and on my iPad so can’t look it up) who was also in the movie about King Arthur with Clive Owen. With a little bit of smiths era morrissey mixed in. And some Dave Gahan from 1983 too.

People have such major variations in what’s attractive to them, but I’m guessing anyone not a MGTOW redpillian tool can still see why others would be attracted to different things or types. I mean, say the perfect outward embodiment of my type were to show up at my door…if he was an idiot I couldn’t stand when he opened his mouth because everything said was like Roosh in a “hot guy skin suit”…nope he’d be sent on his way which is paved with Legos and rocks.

Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut

Might as well let snacks through one or two more times, David. I’d like to get some popcorn for the meltdown.

Though, nthing this: If you have any objections to that, please do voice them before David lets the comments through!

a POIsonous snack
a POIsonous snack
5 years ago

Really, name me ONE majority Muslim society that doesn’t have issues with terrorism or some other malady (poverty, child-marriage, brutality, illiteracy, illness, bellicosity, etc.). I’ll wait.

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
5 years ago

I am not sure if anyone actually wants any poisonous snacks

So I brought some delicious ones instead!

http://www.palaceresorts.com/cozumelpalace/sites/default/files/images/snacks_1_0.jpg

Mr. Snek, I will reply to you shortly.

Saffron
Saffron
5 years ago

“Triggers” are just things that set off extreme, unwanted reactions in people with certain mental health problems. Fireworks or other loud noises can trigger PTSD flashbacks in some veterans. Images of violence or sexual assault can trigger flashbacks or panic attacks in people who’ve been abused. In online communities where people are considerate of these issues, it’s considered polite to put warnings in thread titles, or put images below a link, if something might be expected to trigger someone. Pretty much every mom forum on the internet has rules about putting trigger warnings on threads about child abuse/death. It’s not an attempt to silence any particular viewpoint, it’s just a courtesy to people who suffer from PTSD or other mental health issues.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Arabs… Blacks…Latinos…Whites…

Long ago, the four races lived in harmony. Then, everything changed when the nonwhites attacked. Only Der Furher, master of all races, could stop them. But when the world needed him most, he committed suicide. Roughly 70 years passed, and America discovered a new Furher, an orange business mogul named Trump. Though his support his great, he’s got a long way to go before he’s ready to be president. But I believe that Trump will make America great again.

I seriously can’t tell if this meant to be serious. The whole “orange business mogul” thing seems to say lulz trolling, but he seems serious about the other right wing stuff.

It just increasingly does not matter anymore. Serious or trolling? It’s effectively the same.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

Just in case…
@ a POIsonous snack

You’re all using faith to discredit Ayn Rand’s work, and you have no idea of the ideas expressed by her supporters or her detractors are correct or not; they could very well be common misrepresentations, borrowed from one another.

This does not bear resemblance to how I see faith described by people. These are people, myself included, that tend to encounter devotees of Rand who are people of shitty character. Sure, there are probably non-shitty versions, but that does not make our experiences go away.

As for the validity of Radian thought, your beliefs, your job. It’s a separate issue from the typical experiences we have of such people. I’ve experienced enough of the same jerks to have no problems talking about thinking that there are more assholes who follow Rand than the population at large might contain on average, the same way I would describe the Republican party as containing more racism than the population on average.

You are actually another good example. You seem fine making broad general statements about biology and are unable or unwilling to offer any substance to back your shit up for one example. Shitty character.

People on the left generally complain about how unfair it is when people bring Marx’s work into disrepute by pointing to the atrocities of the USSR, or point to the failures of Latin American socialism; why do you insist on pointing to the attitudes of those who claim to be followers of her as a reason for not reading her? Her ideas are very influential in modern American politics, and it would be ridiculous of you to overlook them.

OK, here is how this works. Take your eyeballs, move up the thread and actually read the parts where people say why they think that they can do this. Because it’s actually there, you just seem utterly unwilling to actually address what people are saying, even just to disagree with it.
Now if my sarcasm is actually a problem because you literally can’t see it let me know because I can point out the comments of some people for you.

And yes, I very well do think of a good many of you as belonging to the “regressive left,” due to the fact that whenever someone criticizes Islam, you feel it necessary to step in and defend Muslims; Islam has a problem, and you need to acknowledge it.

I see people talking about the problems that exist within some groups of Muslims, including feminists. But I also refuse to look away from the xenophobic bigotry that exists within the people claiming to only be opposing Islam, as someone who tries to be an ally I’m on the lookout for good ways to simultaneously deal with the bigots and deal with bad behavior of some Muslims. For the moment unflinching opposition to said bad behavior (like sexism, misogyny, various LGBT phobia, and the defined actions and activities that constitute terrorism independent of group) as it exists is how I do it. Objectively speaking there are plenty of decent Muslims. Frankly I just think that you don’t like the opposition to the bigotry and your very next statement is good evidence of that.

I think it quite hypocritical that you demand “safe spaces” and the like for women, and go on about how men are such a danger to women, but when someone applies the same logic to Muslims (I.E. getting scared, like any rational person would, when seeing them on a plane) you all complain about “Islamaphobia.” Prove me wrong.

1) They are not demanded, they are set up and if you choose to act out in such a space you will face consequences. People get to define the social dynamics of their private groups, people get to reserve public spaces on occasion, many authorities like professors and teachers are allowed to have codes of conduct within their realms of authority.
What you are missing is that these spaces exist to help a group that is historically socially subordinate to express themselves because of people like the ones this article is about. I’ve seen many other minority group describe the internet in these terms, and they helped me to see it too.

I’m not going to play pretend with you, this is about dealing with people who abuse social dominance instincts and they hate seeing their victims have a place where they can’t shout them down. Too, fucking, bad. You have many other places around the net, but of course the mere communication is not the point.

2) The data is what shows men as a group are a danger to women, and they are a danger to men too as Saffron’s link shows.

Men make up the majority of perps and so men are the group where the things that let rape happen will be most easily found. It’s basic science and no, it does not imply that all men are rapists.

3) As there are objectively Muslims that are not violent or bad people, getting scared when seeing them on a plane is irrational. I don’t go assuming that all Republicans are overtly racist even though that party has more overt racists than the average population. I don’t do assuming that all second amendment advocates are like the people at Bundy ranch.

That is literal xenophobic irrational prejudice and discrimination on your part, and you want to be able to do your little social dominance displays so you can try to keep everyone who is not like you in line by the only means you know how, fear. It’s probably how you learned it. I bet you suck at identifying threats and that must be terrifying.
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/6/6a/Discord_S02E02.png

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Since snack is baffled by horse gifs, I’ll offer some none MLP ones.

comment image

comment image

Fabian Prewett
Fabian Prewett
5 years ago

Ableism: Was told to “fuck off.” Cannot and will not fuck, because impotent and asexual.

As my kids would have said when they were little, you are sooooooo not funny.

I’m sure you are well aware of the fact that in this context, ‘fuck’ has nothing to do with sex. It’s not an invitation, suggestion or instruction. When I drop something and say ‘Shit!’, that is me conveying displeasure. It is not a request for my cats to relieve themselves on the carpet. In this case ‘fuck’ is merely there for emphasis; the operative word here is ‘off’.

Being told to fuck off was not ableist either, as being asexual is not a disability. It’s pretty insulting to suggest that it is, when asexuality is just one beautiful colour in the vast spectrum of human sexuality and happiness.

I personally don’t agree with all trigger warnings, normally on the grounds that if it’s crystal clear it the title, there’s no need to repeat the same words verbatim in a trigger warning. It’s also true that some trigger warnings can be a bit over the top. People make mistakes though because they are human. But unlike you, their motivation is good; they just want to protect those who have already been through so much. You just think it’s a big joke.

In spite of the abuse I suffered as a child, I am notoriously difficult to trigger. It took me a long time to get here though. Others at different stages of coming out the other side may still be struggling with it. As someone who knows what it feels like to be triggered, it’s is unbelievably painful. I’d rather not be reminded of it as the average person’s worst nightmare was my reality. It’s nothing like the crap that you tried to pass off as being triggered.

Seriously, Is a heads up too much to ask for? I’m not even saying that you (or anyone else for that matter) can’t read/watch/listen to something that may be triggering. For example, there’s a brief warning at the beginning of every episode of ‘Law and Order – Special Victims Unit’ giving everyone the choice to watch/switch over. Done. Does it really inconvenience you that much?

Just to finish off, for the record I AM physically disabled AND sexual (as opposed to asexual). I cannot have sex because of my disability. So for you to try and claim ableism on the grounds that you are impotent, asexual and told to fuck off, that is insulting. Note, it’s insulting, not triggering. By the way, what exactly was ‘fuck off’ supposed to trigger? Doesn’t your asexuality make your impotence a moot point?

You don’t have a fucking clue and you should be thanking your lucky stars for that. You are the one who is ableist as you’ve used disability and abuse to make an incredibly pathetic ‘joke’. I’m glad my suffering and the suffering of others like me caused you so much amusement. You’re the joke, you arsehole.

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
5 years ago

Okay! So, I am on a tablet now, so my replies won’t be as salubrious as before. Apologies! I will probably only touch on the major points you are asking, Mr Snek.

What’s with all the horse gifs?

Okay then, so what IS triggering? Because it sure does seem like a bunch of oversensitive people to me.

The pony is, for me, a reminder of an attitude I am trying to take, and a mood i am trying to set. You may ignore it if you want to.

Content Warning: Abstract discussion of physical abuse

Triggering isn’t just “being offended”. It’s undergoing trauma. Like, someone who suffered years of physical abuse at home might be brought to panic or fear when spousal abuse is talked about. This is something that happens, to men and women of all stripes – it’s a human thing.

Most of these people suffer in silence – our society teaches all of us to bottle our fear and our discomfort, men especially. Feminists and other progressives encourage people to provide content warnings, so that these people can decide whether they are in a good enough state to grapple with the concepts or not.

It’s about helping other people to engage on their own terms, instead of forcing them to engage on someone else’s. It’s a kindness, something to show consideration to others.

I hope that helps explain it!

I didn’t say that at all. I’m not saying that an objectivist society would be free from problems, but I think it would be a better way to organize society in general. It’s Marx and the other assorted leftists with their anarchism and socialism who think that we can just create a world where fairness and equality reign. That’s not how humans work at all.

You’re right – socialism, communism, and anarchism are terrible philosophies to run a society on. No argument!

So are capitalism, democracy, fascism and libertarianism.

There are no philosophies that can be applied directly to the real world in their pure form. The real world is messy, and requires that we mix our ideas to suit whatever we are trying to accomplish. We combine our philosophies, measure outcomes with care, and direct our societies towards prosperity, compassion, and happiness.

In the political sphere, this approach is (usually some sort of a) representational democracy. In economics, this is called a mixed economy.

As was said above in the thread – overspecialize and you breed in weakness.

You act like your country is so compassionate for doing this, but when one of those cretins heads south and blows up Americans, what will you say? You’re bringing them closer to us, you’re lucky we don’t invade your country.

I will ignore the intimidation, because it’s sort of silly!

Sweetie, Canada has accepted refugees – the sick, the hungry, the downtrodden, the despised, the dangerous – for generations. Our strength is in our openness. Your country was once the same, too, and it breaks my heart to see that you have lost this vital part of your heritage – the core of what makes you who you are.

There have always been people within and without society who want to tear it down. This is the challenge of civilization. We are not afraid to face it head-on, and with compassion. We will not become a jack-booted police state, we will not crush the meek and helpless in a quest for security. Our police force is capable and engaged in the task. We may have fear, but it will not control us.

Why did you become so afraid? Did something happen to you, or someone you care about? There are bad muslims out there, certainly, but the scale of fear is completely out of proportion with the threat.

Control your fear, or it will control you. Be better than this.

a POIsonous snack
a POIsonous snack
5 years ago

@Fabian Prewett

If you’ve overcome so much in your life, surely learning to take a little joke shouldn’t be too difficult for you. Of course, the typical SJW tends to exaggerate their suffering a good deal; I’d honestly question whether or not you have a “disability” that prevents you from having sex, or if you’re just too lazy to get up and do something. Hell, I know an old man with Parkinson’s who works on a regular basis, shaking and rattling all throughout the day, and then there are people who just want to lay around and collect disability. If he can work and he has Parkinson’s, what’s stopping you? The question on your mind should not be “who’s going to let me?” but rather “who’s going to stop me?”

a POIsonous snack
a POIsonous snack
5 years ago

@Scildfreja

What makes you think I’m afraid? Unlike you, I have survival instincts; I have the desire to preserve myself. I’m not going to walk willingly into the mine field that refugees and Islam pose to our civilization. Societies that don’t preserve their cultures and national identity are doomed to fail.

Why do you keep calling me Snek?

Fabian Prewett
Fabian Prewett
5 years ago

Quote within a quote…

According to Lisak, “somewhere around a third of men who are sexually abused as children are abused by women,” and while every case of sexual assault is unique, many of the cases of men being sexually abused by women involve a power imbalance.

@Saffron. This is so true, although not all the victims are boys. It’s only relatively recently been acknowledge than women sexually abuse children and even when it is acknowledged, the same scenarios always come up. It’s either, as you say, an under-aged boy who should be ‘grateful’, interestingly enough a position that tends to be held by men. Or the female abuser is the unwilling sidekick/victim of a dominant male. I’m not saying this doesn’t happen, but it’s far from the whole story. Women have also been known to sexually abuse girls and boys, both pre and post-puberty, without male involvement at all.

It’s impossible to tell exactly how many children have been sexually abused by women and to what extent. This is partly because the nature of the assault is often different if the perpetrator is a woman. A lot of them want plausible deniability, so they claim they were simply ‘washing’ the child for example. Michele Elliot and Jackie Saradjian have produced some interesting research on the subject.

Of course it’s not simply confined to abuse under the guise of ‘care-giving’. But the reason we know so little about it – cue MRA howls and gnashing of teeth – is patriarchy. NOT MEN. It’s the patriarchal stereotype of women all being caring and nurturing which stops many children and adult survivors from even reporting it, let alone any hope of legal justice. Sometimes even the thought of a woman sexually assaulting a child can cause such a violent reaction, they lash out at the very person who needs the most help. The don’t want to face the terrible knowledge that it happens, so they lash out at the bearer of the news, usually the victim.

This is why our knowledge on this subject is so woefully inadequate. Unfortunately it will stay that way until we acknowledge the fact that not all women are cookie-baking, apron-wearing superwomen. Some of them are less Mary Poppins and more Aileen Wuornos. You only have to look at the case of Vanessa George et al, nursery nurses who photographed themselves sexually abusing toddlers aged 2 and under, to know that a small percentage of women are monsters. George has 9 children of her own and even when she was begged to identify some of the victims, she just smirked and said, “No comment”. This is why I get annoyed with MRAs making it all about them. It has nothing to do with them at all, it’s about the children who’ve been abused. I wish those whiny attention-seekers would stop talking about it and just JTOW, ffs.

a POIsonous snack
a POIsonous snack
5 years ago

@Scildfreja

Those people aren’t like me and mine. They’re different. You can never tell what they’re up to, you have no idea what they’re thinking, what the world is like to them and what they think of you and your own. It doesn’t matter what they say, you can never tell when those people are telling the truth. So often it happens to be the case that one of them acts all nice in public, but then he turns around and blows something up. You just can’t trust them. When it comes to my own, I know what they’re thinking, because I’m one of them; I know what it’s like. When one of mine acts up, I know it’s just because he’s a bad person – but with those other people, you can never tell. Why are they so violent?