Men Going Their Own Way have a keen eye when it comes to spotting subtle injustices that the rest of us often miss.
Like, for example, the terrible injustice that is … fat chicks dating dudes who aren’t themselves fat.
One Reddit MGTOW recently reminded his comrades just how pervasive this terrible injustice has become in the contemporary world.
Preach it, brother!
Others in the MGTOW subreddit reported their own findings.
He THOUGHT he was happy. Just as the German citizens under Hitler THOUGHT they were free!
Little did he know that his life could have been snuffed out in a moment had his girlfriend — *shudder* — decided to sit on him. We have lost too many men, cut down in their prime by hambeast girlfriends who thought it might be “funny” to pretend that their boyfriends were chairs.
Another MGTOW Redditor applied some powerful STEM logic to the problem:
Can society long survive with the attractiveness ratio so far out of whack? What kind of world is it when dudes who are EIGHTS are saddled with level 5 plain janes? Or when men who are average joes find themselves trapped in completely voluntary relationships with level 2 hambeasts, some of whom are quite angry and/or stern.
It is the thoughtful ovendice — we’ve met him before — who brings real clarity and wisdom to this difficult issue.
I can’t argue with that! Mainly because I have no idea what he’s talking about. How does working hard prevent men from being pigs?
Here’s a song I don’t think MGTOWs are going to like very much.
NOTE: This post contains
And not a single ounce of self-awareness was had that day.
I’ve had the same problem with my grandma. There was a short period of time where I only ate a small plate at dinner, and so I treated myself to a bowl of pudding one night because I was still rather hungry.
So I’m sitting there eating some pudding on the couch, and my grandma says “You need to eat less. You’re gaining weight.” Needless to say, I didn’t recall stepping on any scales recently, let alone in her line of sight, and she wasn’t keeping tabs on what I was and wasn’t eating, so I just simply said “No, I’m not.” and repeated myself when she tried to insist I was.
Needless to say, I still lost my appetite, and I was still really upset.
There’s a really interesting game out (That’s really not for everyone) by Harvester Games called Downfall that’s got a recent remaster (and the old version is now freeware).
This game isn’t for everyone, and it’s suggested for ages 18+. However, I would also add warnings for blood, gore, Ivy’s eating disorder, and some not-so-nice discussions about suicide. Needless to say, it’s a depressing game. Still good, but depressing.
**TRIGGER WARNING FOR TALK OF EATING DISORDERS**
The reason I bring up Downfall is that the main character, Joe, is trying to save his wife, Ivy, in a grotesque, haunted hotel, and that Ivy is suffering from an eating disorder, most likely anorexia.
She sees herself as “fat”, despite being quite skinny (and Joe constantly reassuring her that she is), and it’s gotten to the point where she’s hallucinating. The game takes place at Quiet Haven Hotel, where Joe was forced to stop during a storm on a trip to go see a doctor to help her.
There’s a scene in the remake (I haven’t gotten around to playing the original, but I did watch someone play the remake, because, you know, broke college grad) where Joe and Ivy are lying in bed, and Ivy confides in you that she’s been making herself sick again. The player gets a choice from a list on how to respond to that (with love and caring, with anger, with frustration, etc.).
There’s another scene where, just after dinner, the “monster in the mirror” traps Ivy in the bathroom, and tells her there’s only one way out, a portal through the toilet, which I imagine is a metaphor for making herself throw up the dinner she just ate.
Joe confronts four memories of a girl named Sophie, who has taken Ivy “hostage” (It’s never quite revealed who she is, but I think Sophie’s Ivy’s memory of her illness). One of the memories of Sophie is a very skinny young woman who gets snubbed at a party by a douchecanoe named Harrison, who insists that she’s the “size of a football field” and that he would have to get even more drunk to find her attractive.
I wouldn’t say this game is perfect to show how someone deals with an eating disorder (especially since the game is from Joe’s POV most of the time, and not at all in Ivy’s), but it does touch on the subject that made it a bit relatable for me in terms of “the monster in the mirror”, who manifests and tells you all these horrible things that encourage you to purge. I’ve never had an eating disorder, but I have met this “monster in the mirror” before in terms of my own struggles with depression and anxiety.
@Lea:
I laughed so hard I cried. It was amazing. Amy Schumer is the great genius of our age.
@ Kale.
I have the same problem. Its part of my dyspraxia. It’s part of not being as aware of social cues as other people. It helps to make people aware of it so they can give you a bit of leeway. 🙂
I’m still trying to figure out what women get for free that men don’t. I can only assume that:
1. Men pay for air
2. I have accidentally been shopping in men’s supermarkets, all my food and household items have cost me money.
3. I need to call my landlord and explain that I’m a woman and that he’s been seriously overcharging me for the past 8 years.
Once again, I’m not convinced these guys actually know any women.
This is my “favorite” thing about all reactionaries. Reality pretty much never conforms to their expectations but they never waver in their certainty that the world works the way they think it does.
@Imaginary Petal
Ah, interesting…a Mobius strip of attractiveness. Yes, someone would have to date “down” unless it was a closed system.
Their rule seems to be that women can only date their equal or lower, while men can only date their equal or higher (the reverse for income). That would only work if everyone dated their equal, or if there were more “10” women than “10” men.
(I feel ridiculous referring to people as numbers. What in the world is wrong with these people?)
Re: volunteer training, I find it helpful with my kids to (tactfully) ask them to repeat instructions back to me in their own words, just so I know they don’t have any gaps or misconceptions. If that’s too uncomfortable, maybe you could have them try to teach another person once they think they’ve got it?
I present to you the Manosphere Logic of Dating and Game:
An “attractive” woman + an “attractive” man = “OH MY GOD, OF COURSE SHE’D FUCK THE ATTRACTIVE DUDE SHE’S SHALLOW!”
An “attractive” woman + an “unattractive” man = “OH MY GOD, SHE’S JUST USING HIM FOR HIS MONEY AND CUCKOLDING HIM!”
An “unattractive” woman + an “unattractive” man = “OH MY GOD, HE’S CLEARLY JUST SETTLING AND SHE’S USING HIM BECAUSE SHE A WOMAN AND CAN GET ANY MAN SHE WANTS!”
An “unattractive” woman + an “attractive: man = “OH MY GOD, CLEARLY HE’S BRAINWASHED! IT’S A FEMINIST CONSPIRACY!”
As you can see, the man is never at fault, and gay, trans and non-binary people don’t exist.
@kale:
I feel you – I’m also a fat woman who doesn’t find other fat women* (or myself) terribly attractive, and who feels somewhat hypocritical about that. But:
1) I don’t know if this works for everyone; I suspect not, as I speculate that, even though we’re almost certainly all influenced in our tastes by the culture we grow up in, for some of us our tastes are only moldable in this way up to a certain age while for others they continue to be influenceable to some extent. But for what it’s worth, I’ve found personally that I have been able to change mine, to a small extent at least. I didn’t exactly set out to do it deliberately, but I found that looking at drawings of fat women that were intended to be sexy (sort of pin-ups mostly, I guess, though some webcomics as well) had that result. I don’t know if it needs to be drawings, or whether photos or live presentations (burlesque, perhaps?) would work too; drawings happened to be the medium that I was looking at. I started to view slightly larger women than I previously would have as attractive, and while there are certainly still sizes too large for me to find them absolutely attractive (at least in real life), I can find them somewhat attractive in sexy drawings of the kind I mentioned, and more attractive than I did previously in real life. So it is possible that you might be a person that would work for, and if you wanted to try to change your preferences then you could try that route. (For reference, what started me off on this was the lesbian webcomic artist Megan Rose Gedris, who happens to be (besides an awesome person who’s written some great stuff about topics that might interest people here) a thin woman who finds fat women attractive, and draws plenty of them in her comics and on her (NSFW!) tumblr, rosalarian.tumblr.com. She also started fatpeopleart.tumblr.com, where anyone can submit drawings of fat people.)
2) However, that said, and despite what I said about feeling hypocritical for not finding fat women more attractive, I really don’t think anyone needs to feel bad about that, and neither do I think you (or anyone else) need to change your preferences (as I said, it may not even be possible, but even if it is). It’d be nice if more people found larger people attractive, and so I guess (given where the distribution of preferences currently lies) it would be good if some people did find ways to shift their preferences a bit towards the larger, but it is absolutely not a requirement or responsibility of any particular person, and indeed it’d probably be a bad thing if everyone did that, if they all didn’t continue to find people over at the thin end of the spectrum as attractive as they did previously. There should ideally be a diversity of tastes across the population, since there is a diversity of sizes! Everyone only liking fat people would be just as bad as everyone only liking thin people.
More to the point, there is simply nothing wrong with having a preference. It’s part of being human. It’s only a problem if you (a) treat the preference as though it is an objective aspect of reality rather than just your taste (i.e. “Fat people are unattractive” not “I find fat people unattractive”), (b) consider those with other tastes to be inferior or worthy of ridicule, (c) consider people who don’t meet your taste to be inferior or worthy of ridicule, or (d) fail to remember that most of the time your tastes are of concern only to you and gratuitously express them (particularly because that can sound like (a) again, i.e. you’re saying it’s just your taste but you actually believe it is a universal truth; after all, if it’s not a universal truth why would it be of interest to anyone else?). I know I’ve seen all of these frequently from manospherians, but it doesn’t sound like you’re doing any of them. (I would say this comment thread is one of the rare places where your taste is actually relevant, so you haven’t done (d).)
(I also wonder to what extent it’s the case that opposites attract? Do I prefer thinner women not only because that’s the ideal in our culture but also precisely because I’m on the larger side myself? I don’t know if that’s the case, but for me it’s an idea that makes the taste vs. own physical form mismatch easier to accept – after all, I have absolutely zero bad feelings about being someone with grey/blue eyes who finds brown eyes more attractive!)
So, tl;dr: it may be possible to change your preferences if you want to, but they are actually totally fine as they are so you shouldn’t feel that you have to!
(Though, as noted, despite being aware of all that, I haven’t managed to totally ditch the hypocritical feeling myself! I guess it’s a case of what you feel not always matching up to what you know.)
*Or, indeed, fat men, though that’s perhaps less relevant to what you were saying, and less relevant to me as a lesbian**
**well, it’s complicated, but that’s the short label
@Pandapool
Wow, that is an excellent summing up! Clearly the only solution is for us all to take vows of celibacy… oh, wait, I’m pretty sure that’s misandry too, my bad.
Also, why do these philosopher-kings and shitlords think that pigs are lazy? They need to look up the phrase “root hog or die” which refers to an old farming practice of turning pigs loose to fend for themselves instead of feeding them.
Once again, they are ignorant of the reality about not only women, but pigs, which are kept in confinements (which are nasty and don’t allow for excessive movement). Being confined does NOT equal lazy, guys!
@Imaginary Petal – good luck with your new medication, I really hope it helps. I’m very glad you saw someone. Sometimes taking that first step lifts a part of the load.
As a manager, I would echo what most here are telling you. For SURE, write down your kitty’s allergies, preferences, vet name, date and types of shots, emergency #s, etc. and just keep that for whenever you’re going to have a pet-sitter or board them. I do this with our pets and it just makes things much easier.
When training people, I would again echo what others are saying, to have a very simple bullet-point sheet you give out and that people can follow along with/take notes on. The suggestion to hold questions until certain stopping points is also very good. I would hesitate to have people read back a sheet to me as it seems somewhat condescending, but that might just be me.
I find people always listen better if they feel like you are on the same team. It’s boring to just have someone go through all the rules – if there aren’t too many people at once, I would make it very much like a “tour”. This is what I generally do with new employees myself. Don’t underestimate how much people love positive feedback – “excellent question!” “that comes up quite often” etc. Sprinkle a lot of these in. It costs nothing to make someone feel like they matter.
Do not forget the value of silence. Many times the best way I have of getting someone to STFU is to patiently wait until they are finished, then go right back to what I was saying. Personal information: I absolutely hate being interrupted, it’s one of my “things”, so I often try to present my information in a semi-entertaining manner so that people are “watching” (and listening) rather than just getting bored.
Not caught up on comments but how much you wanna bet all that’s required to be a ‘hambeast’ is being like 180lbs?
And literally! They have to literally work for literally everything!
And people who work… can’t… be pigs? I’m not sure I understand this thread of logic.
Haven’t posted here in a while, but if anyone was wondering about my friend/coworker’s situation with Captain Creepbag harassing her at work, there’s been a bit of an update. She did indeed get fed up and go to our boss again, coming specifically from the ‘he’s wasting our time’ angle. She talked to our boss on Thursday or Friday the week before last.
Creepbag has not been in to work in 7 work days now. I have no idea if this is related or not but I mean hey, he’s not around, and whether it’s temporary or not, it’s nice to be free of him for now.
She is also leaning farther and farther in the direction of taking the other job she’s been offered every day (there’s no deadline on it right now). So overall it looks like we’re not quite there, but we’re heading for a happy ending.
@freemage PUA/Redpill ideas seem like “positive thinking”/”manifestation” stuff except happiness and positivity are scarce resources. You can use their techniques to become an “alpha” and increase your happiness, but then everyone else’s happiness must decrease (which, in right libertarian social Darwinism, is how it should be, otherwise everything is “unnatural” and you get horrible stuff like utility monsters).
If other people seem happier or more successful than you, it means either:
1. You are not an alpha.
2. The people are just pretending to be happy.
3. They “stole” your happiness by not following the social Darwinist “rules.”
If evo psych tells you fat girls are not attractive, then you either have 2 (the guy is pretending) or 3 (the guy is a “pervert” bringing society down). The alternative is too horrible to imagine. I think that explains why these guys are so offended by almost everything, reality is an attack on their sense of self worth.
I hung around the Purple Pill forum for a while before it started seriously bumming me out, and this was every other goddamn thread. Just dudes puking up rage that other people were in happy relationships and trying to come up with reasons it was secretly horrible.
I always wondered how they would rate my and my husband’s “sexual market value,” so I could find out in which of four possible ways I was oppressing him with my very presence.
@A Space Alpaca Great news! 🙂 *crosses fingers*
There’s actually a logical reason they might be seeing skinnier guys with fatter women: women are more likely on average to be overweight. It happens more the older we all get, and Americans are getting fatter overall, so I would guess this “trend” is just poor pattern recognition on his part.
Also, I’d rather have a guy dismiss me out of hand as a fatty than act like I’m supposed to be grateful to him for finding me attractive. The latter is irritatingly common on dating sites.
I’m a fat woman, as I’ve mentioned before. My own preference (I am straight except for the occasional woman-crush) is for somewhat overweight men.
I find plump women attractive, too, for the most part.
For me, if someone has a really great smile, that goes a long way.
But gosh, I don’t feel hypocritical for it; I like what I like, and neither do I think everyone has to find fat women (or thin women, or what-have-you) attractive. While I agree with the goals of fat-acceptance (reducing shame and self-loathing, reducing bullying and harassment) I just would never be able to say in good conscience that accepting fat people as human beings means you are required to be physically attracted to them.
AFAIK, attraction just doesn’t work that way.
Hambeast here, reporting in. Somebody come rescue my husband from his loving wife, his adorable daughter, and successful career! Clearly these sad, angry, mostly single geniuses are his only hope!
Why is it good thing when healthy genetically desirable attractive man with good DNA date, marry and reproduce with unhealthy, undesirable, unattractive women?
This result of politically correct American society with artificial culture. This not good thing. This trend prove how weak white men in this country have become after 30+ years non-stop cultural brainwashing. Weak. Clueless. No “game”. No confidence. Relegated.
Yes. Is very good thing if you are heifer with equality tattoo on forearm. Other than this.. why is it good thing??? It flout nature. You flinch to look at it. I talk with American guys like this. Probe. Ask questions. These men do not even have courage to put me in my place! This reinforce my original position they are weak and insecure in present situation.
I find study of humanity in your country to be a paradox of hypocrisy and bullshit. If anyone on this website or in this world had conscious choice of being born into this Godforsaken world not one single person would choose unattractive parents. That just fact. Nobody would choose undesirable traits or genetic malady. Yet you cheer and celebrate this when it suits your pleasure?
Is normal to have occasional “chubby chaser”, poor alcoholic, or psychotically insecure man who encourage wife to gain 300 pounds fearing to lose her. But as percentage this type of man, specifically white man, have grown exponentially in you country. The underlying reasons are serious cause for study. Yet you never find any study on this outside internet because is not “politically correct”. So universities or think tanks will not dare to touch.
America is slowly, slowly becoming different version of old USSR. First you cheer. Then you cry in pain. You cannot have equality in this world because world is not equal.
Hambeast here, reporting in. Somebody come rescue my husband from his loving wife, his adorable daughter, and successful career! Clearly these sad, angry, mostly single geniuses are his only hope!
I’m glad to be a “failure” to most of these guys in the insecurity zone known as the manosphere… Because I personally prefer women with more weight on them than those who are skinnier.
Of course, if you remember when I posted the picture of the weight lifter, being fat =/= being lazy or out of shape. Sometimes, no matter what you do, genetics and your body do everything in their power to not make you stay skinny (unless you got genes that make you stay skinny, but from what I hear, not everyone actually is happy about that when it happens). I mean, we could be covered in excessive body hair like all other mammals, in which we wouldn’t need as much fat to keep warm, but being tool users, we traded all that gross fur for opposable thumbs to make our own coats and clothes…
@ IP
I am one of those people who you wouldn’t think is listening. I don’t speak often, and I have trouble making eye contact. I’m aware of my weirdness, though, so I try to make up for it by asking smart questions that show I’ve been listening.
I get that it’s frustrating, and IMIO (in my inconsequential opinion) it’s fine to be frustrated. But consider that the person in question might actually really be listening, and they’re just not good at showing it. It might help you feel less angry.
Don’t forget “6. The only measure of attractiveness is the purely physical and instantaneous, and if someone is not your physical ideal, there is no combination of personality, charm and intellect that could possibly fill the gaps.”
If my wife gave me a machine that would transform her into my physical idyll, yes–she’d end up slimmer and probably a little taller and with coppery red hair not found in nature. Of course, by that time, she’d’ve already used it on me and I’d be a trim and fit 20-something Native American with hair down to the back of my knees and blue eyes, so fair’s fair.
And yet, somehow, we remain perfectly happy together (even when other aspects of our lives are in a state of tumult and chaos). It’s almost as if looks aren’t the only thing important in a relationship, or something.
@Freemage
I said “some problems”, not “all of the problems”. I can’t spend all week with this list. :p
@Everyone
Thanks for the advice.
Yeah, I’d be very careful not to come across as condescending. I hate being condescended to, so maybe I’m overly worried about coming across that way myself.
Maybe I will type up a short list of bullet points, like many of you have suggested. I introduce new people almost every week, and I usually just improvise while making sure to mention the truly important things (such as: what are our hours, how to get a log-in, what to do if you have to cancel, etc).
I’m used to speaking to a group of people in a class room setting, where it’s generally understood that when I’m talking you need to be quiet and listen. Trying to give information to individual persons in a less formal setting has been a bit of an eye-opener for me…
But I want to also make it clear that this has only been a problem with two or three people out of maybe 50 or more. I just haven’t known how to deal with those few cases where the person seems incapable of shutting up for a few seconds so I can give them the information that they have willingly signed up to receive.
Sorry for raging. I promise I’m not like this in real life. :p