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"ethics" #gamergate 8chan alt-right evil SJWs harassment lying liars men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny racism reactionary bullshit red pill transphobia vox day

Vox Day’s fans are making him an enemies list. But they’re not checking it twice

Another guy who had a list
Another guy who had a list

A few days ago, racist skeezeball fantasy author Vox Day noted on his blog just how nice it would be to have a handy public list of all the people he hates. Sorry, a list of “confirmed SJWs.” It would be a handy resource, he said, both for SJWs looking to hire other SJWs, as well as “for those who wish to keep their organizations free of the creatures.”

You can probably figure out which of these two reasons is the real reason for the list, and which is the utterly transparent fig leaf.

Vox helpfully suggested that anyone seeking to make such a list could start with the names of those who signed a petition condemning a scheduled speech by programmer Curtis Yarvin at the upcoming LambdaConf, on the grounds that Yarvin, also known as Mencius Moldbug, is not only a programmer but is also “a founder and advocate of an ideological movement that promotes racist bigotry,” not to mention “an apologist for slavery.”

No sooner had Vox made this suggestion than a such a list appeared, in the form of a Wiki (archived here), featuring the petition-signers and a handful of other alleged SJWs. Vox claims not to have a direct hand in what the site rather misleadingly calls The Complete List of SJWs, attributing its sudden appearance to his followers — or, as he likes to call them, the “Dread Ilk.” But this is clearly the beginnings of the enemies list of Vox’s dreams.

So how does one get on such a list? The listmakers themselves don’t seem altogether sure. At first, they declare that

[t]he SJWs listed should be on the record supporting censorship of some kind (no platforming, government censorship, or disemploying people). This is not a place for grudges.

In the wiki’s FAQ, they reiterate this point, saying they will only include those who have

publicly called for someone to be fired, disinvited, shunned, no-platformed, or otherwise punished or silenced for refusing to submit to the SJW Narrative. The particular incident is linked to your name in the list. 

Immediately after this pronouncement, though, they declare that the list will also contain the names of  those who have declared themselves SJWs, as well as journalists who’ve published “articles that support the SJW Narrative” — whatever that means — “or an SJW attack campaign.”

So far they have not been following these rules very carefully. Some names appear on the list with no information given about their alleged “incidents.” Others are included, well, apparently just because Vox and his Ilk don’t like them.

The list also maliciously deadnames several trans women, attempting to justify this despicable policy by suggesting that these women are using “pseudonyms in place of their actual, legal names in an attempt to obfuscate their identities.” This is obvious nonsense.

So who makes the list?

The vast majority of the names on the list are simply people who signed the LamdaConf petition.

But there are some other, more recognizable, names. John Scalzi, a science fiction author who has long been Vox’s greatest nemesis, makes the list, naturally; the listmakers blame him for Vox’s expulsion from the  Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America, though it is perhaps more accurate to say that Vox was expelled for being a huge racist dickhead.

Cartoonist and memoirist Alison Bechdel is included on the list because, 30 years ago, she drew a comic strip in which one of the characters said she only went to movies that featured at least two female characters who talk to one another, at least once, about something other than a man.

This comic strip is the origin of what’s now called the “Bechdel Test,” but Bechdel herself never publicized the “test,” the idea for which (as she freely admits) she got from a friend.

Actor, writer and geek icon Will Wheaton makes the list for Tweeting comments defending actress and Geek and Sundry founder Felicia Day, a friend of his, after a Destructoid writer, apparently drunk, made some ignorant and misogynistic remarks about her. The writer was fired, as drunken dickheads who do stupid things when they’re drunk sometimes are. “This tweet exemplifies [Wheaton’s] SJW status,” the listmakers sniff.

Writer, and former Jeopardy champion Arthur Chu is on the list because he jokingly referred to himself  as “a social justice stormtrooper” and because “he is alleged to have been responsible for the bomb threat that disrupted the #GamerGate meetup in Washington D.C. on May 1, 2015.”

That’s right” “he is alleged.” There is absolutely no evidence, or even a good reason to suspect, that he had anything whatsoever to do with the alleged bomb threat. Gamergaters essentially decided to accuse him of making the threat because they don’t like him. And that’s good enough for Vox’s listmakers!

 

And then there’s Carpenter Brut, a composer included on the list because he objected to his music being used without permission in a virulently anti-refugee “documentary” titled “With Open Gates: The Forced Collective Suicide of European Nations.”

This 20-minute propaganda film is essentially a collection of out-of-context video clips edited together into a melodramatic montage by an 8chan user who debuted it by posting it to the notoriously racist /pol/ board; it’s been pretty thoroughly debunked by, among others, Snopes.com (which declared it “deceptive”) and Vice (which described it as “a mishmash of comically fake and out-of-context footage, bad subtitling and Islamophobic propaganda”).

Brut objected to having his music in this piece of garbage, so now he’s on the list.

 

Perhaps the list should be renamed The Complete List of Really Pretty Decent People Who’ve Offended Vox Day by Being Really Pretty Decent.

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Imaginary Petal
Imaginary Petal
4 years ago

Guys I’ve made great food again. Beluga lentil stew with coconut milk and curry. I’m on fire this week.

/brag

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
4 years ago

The examples I’ve seen suggest something along the lines of “Chelsea Manning, formerly known as….” Or “Caitlyn Jenner (born Bruce Jenner).”

That’s still deadnaming.

dslucia
dslucia
4 years ago

I’ll probably appear pretty defensive with this, but I keep a beard because I enjoy the feeling of it and believe that it suits my face better than going clean-shaven. It’s not for the benefit of my masculinity or for showing off to other people.

Bacon is a tasty treat that complements a wide variety of other foods pretty nicely, at least to my taste buds. Though, given the groups I hang out in I tend to see it come up more as an argument between what Americans call bacon and what Europeans call bacon.

And before I was of the legal age to drink, I didn’t understand the appeal either. To be honest, I still don’t get the appeal of actually getting drunk. I’ve found more than a few alcoholic beverages that I just enjoy the flavor of, so I like to have them when I can. I can’t really handle the particularly strong stuff like whiskey or straight rum, though, because I’m not a fan of the burning sensation.

As for comic superheroes, I think Freemage covered that far better than I can, but I’ll admit I’m a fan of the Frank Miller-style Batman. Year One and The Dark Knight Returns, not All-Star Batman. I like Batman the most when it’s grim and gritty with a bit of levity occasionally thrown in. The Animated Series actually kind of ruined the original Tim Burton/Joel Schumacher films for me, because it made me think that those four movies tend to sway far too hard one way or the other for my tastes, while TAS got it pretty much perfect.

littleknown
littleknown
4 years ago

@David Gerard:

I actually slogged through that whole mess, and most of the comments section.

Kudos to users “Anna” and “Steven Schwartz” for attempting to reason with the abyss.

I found it amusing to find De Goes wading into the comment section to drop this doozy:

I am happy to discuss this with you, but right now, you are using emotionally and morally charged language (“violent communication”)

Freeze peach! Unless you say something mean about how my defense of my position wouldn’t pass muster as a first-year Philosophy student. Then it is very important that we report your comments in response to my post and prevent you from having a platform. However, if you have noxiously racist views, it is very important that I do what I can to assure you that you will not be marginalized, but perhaps be respected, in our community; and to give you a platform.

It’s almost as if writing about how other races are inferior on your personal blog makes it impossible for someone having your targeted characteristics (and anyone capable of empathizing with them) to have a professional relationship with you.

I liked this exchange:

“Steven Schwartz” wrote:

“It is not possible for an idea to make one feel unsafe.”

Only so long as no one actually holds it. To pick an example totally at non-random, if 35% of the population held the belief that “Objectivists are emotionally stunted and not worthy of full citizenship”, that idea might make a few people feel unsafe, as instantiated in the people.

This point flew over jordan_zimmerman’s head, who wrote:

As an Objectivist, I can tell you the number is more like 99% of people that dislike my ideas. A thought or idea in someone else’s mind causes me no damage.

*facepalm*

Apparently, “being evaluated as not worthy of full citizenship” == “dislike of my ideas” / totally not dangerous to my well-being. Apparently, Objectivist-friendly economic policy being championed by nearly the entire Republican party == “99% of people dislike my ideas”.

There is also this gem from “dtobias”:

You apparently need to take the right Critical Race Studies courses to see that particular invisible dragon. Now, if somebody were to assert that the presence of nonwhite people at the conference would cause “actual damage” to white racists, and you would see that if you took the proper Aryan Studies classes, would that be a claim worthy of attention?

Ah, yes, the old “to a white racist, the presence of black people at a conference is analogous to what a white racist being given a speaking slot at said conference would represent to black people” argument. That’s what we call an own goal, sir.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
4 years ago

@ Pandapool

Okay, then in the context of wanting to make sure somebody understands that the person now known as (legal name) may be more recognizable as (birth name), what would you recommend?

Number Sequence
Number Sequence
4 years ago

Yeah, I’m gonna call bullshit on deep readings of MGS2. All of the “brilliant deconstruction” elements people started lauding after the initial letdown have always come off as fans trying to string together meaning out of a long series of half baked quirks.

Quinten Flynn’s whiny voice is the result of bad direction. Raiden’s Japanese voice is a rich base, but Flynn was given the idea of “adult Johnny Quest” according to an interview. Raiden is actually super popular with the Japanese side of fans because he fits the bishonen design archetype to a tee (pretty face, pretty hair, ultra sword, tragic past.) And that makes sense given that Kojima’s reason for creating him was a fan said they didn’t want to be playing as an old man anymore, so his design and inclusion over Snake is just response to that as well a probably some of Kojima’s obvious desire to stop using Solid Snake as a character.

That “turn off the game moment” is just a reference to the exact same thing in MG 1 (the original MSX game.) It’s not even a particularly clever one because it is literally the same thing where your CO calls you to try and trick you to turning off the game. It’s cute and all as Kojima’s interface screw sometimes is, but it’s just, “Ok, parallels to older games… Uh… ‘Turn the game off! Perfect.”

“Controlling the flow of information with the internet” was confirmed by Kojima in an interview as a plot device inspired by Napster.

And of course that doesn’t count the monumental amount of cut content. The final boss being you and Snake vs. Solidus and Ocelot, rescuing the mercenaries from the sinking tanker, and Arsenal tumbling through Manhattan being what comes immediately to mind.

So if can gain a bunch of “deconstruction” meaning from that, good for you. I’m glad you can find meaning in something you like. I like MGS2 for all the issues I have with it, but it’s not this smart.

Sorry about that. I have spent so much time with fans of things who think deconstruction is the endall be all of smart writing that seeing claims of it just sets me off. It’s the reason I can’t stand most Eva fans as Eva is not a deconstruction of anything, but that’s a much longer diatribe that doesn’t go here.

Also, all beer is rotgut, the bacon obsession is weird as hell, and beards are ok if you have a face that suits one and groom them.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
4 years ago

@Victorious Parasol

I would suggest just describing what she’s done because there’s a lot of people who done many things that people don’t know the name of. If they deadname her, correct them.

I should note that some people don’t mind being deadnamed and some people would hate you for life if you deadname them, but you should ask or research first. It’s a common “excuse” to keep deadnaming someone because they’re more “well known” under their deadname. They also deadname because they did something bad and don’t “deserve” their real name and pronouns.

Of course, I’m just one trans peep here telling you this. If any other trans/non-binary peep wants to speak up, I hope they do.

NetNrrd
NetNrrd
4 years ago

Note: Wheaton’s name is spelled “Wil” with one L.

Tanya
Tanya
4 years ago

Oh, so what you are saying, David, is that this is a list of people we want to be friends with! excellent. i need such a list 🙂

It’s great when people’s attempts to point out some “bad”, are more useful as “ways to find really interesting and nice people” for the rest of us!

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
4 years ago

@ Panadapool

Thanks. Some of my trans friends prefer to avoid any mention of their birth name unless absolutely necessary (legal reasons, etc.), and some are cool if a friend accidentally slips and calls them by their birth name instead of their new name, and all the other variations. For the most part it hasn’t been an issue for me simply because I’ve usually met someone after their transition so their birth name isn’t something I’m privy to. It’s usually trickier for me with the genderqueer/genderfluid friends who switch pronouns, but they’re usually pretty good at giving me cues as to what they’re preferring at the moment.

Rabukurafuto
Rabukurafuto
4 years ago

I just discovered a similar controversy regarding the Horror Writers Association and the Bram Stoker Awards. Author David A. Riley was asked to be a judge for the best horror anthology, and a large number of HWA members protested this because Riley is a former National Front member and has made some noxiously racist remarks, appearing to favor the British National Party. Unfortunately the HWA won’t drop Riley no matter how many members object.

Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut

LindsayIrene | April 13, 2016 at 11:41 pm
I’m sure this could be used for a parody of that”I’ve Got a Little List” Gilbert & Sullivan song, but I’m way too lazy to do it.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-7x4iJiVWhsE/U2mU9YtvyZI/AAAAAAAAA-w/VbcHcXRGFUU/s1600/im_ready_game_of_thrones.gif

(Seriously, I have a copy of all of the Savoy Operas right on my desk right now, and the first one is The Mikado. IT’S A SIGN.)

The formatting on WordPress is a little different than the script has, so bear with me.

*ahem*

[This scene takes place right after Vox Day has sang the song ‘Behold the Lord High Vox’. By himself.]

Vox: Gentlemen, I’m much touched by this reception. I can only trust that by strict attention to duty I shall ensure a continuance of these favors which it will ever be my duty to deserve, being a cishet white Christian male, as God has intended. If I should ever be called upon to fight the war against the dreaded SJWs, I am happy to think that there will be no difficulty in finding plenty of the parasites whose loss will be a distinct gain to our white nationalist, Christian society at large. But of course, we mean no harm, and we don’t hold grudges.

[Chorus of white men all nod and mutter in agreement]

SONG – Vox Day with CHORUS OF (white, Christian, cishet) MEN

Vox: As some day it may happen that SJWs must be found, I’ve got a little list — I’ve got a little list

Of SJWs who might well be underground,
and who never would be missed, — who never would be missed!
There’s the pestilential nuisances who write on tumblr blogs —
All the feminists who have twitter accounts and harassment logs —
All the men who stick up for female feminist brats —
All the gays in shaking hands, shake hands with you like that

And all SJWs who on spoiling discourse insist —
They’d none of them be missed — they’d none of ’em be missed!

CHORUS: He’s got ’em on the list — he’s got ’em on the list;
And they’ll none of ’em be missed — they’ll none of ’em be missed.

Vox: There’s the African-American, and others of his race,
And that Scalzi novelist — I’ve got him on the list!
And the people who date others of their gender and rub it in your face,
They never would be missed — they never would be missed!
Then the idiot who critiques, with enthusiastic tone,
all video games but these and all genders but their own;
And the lady from the YouTubes who dresses like a guy,
And who ‘doesn’t think she games, but would rather like to try’;
And that singular anomaly, the PoC Sci-Fi novelist —
I don’t think she’d be missed — I’m sure she’d not be missed!

CHORUS: He’s got her on the list — he’s got her on the list;
And I don’t think she’ll be missed — I’m sure she’ll not be missed!

Vox: And that male feminist, who just now is rather rife,
The female sympathist, I’ve got him on the list!
All homosexuals, transgendereds, and females who aren’t housewives,
They’d none of ’em be missed — they’d none of ’em be missed.
And an apologetic statesmen of a compromising kind,
Such as — What d’you call him — Thing’em-bob — and likewise —
Nevermind.
And ‘St — ‘St — ‘St —- and what’s-his-name, and also Literally Who —-
The task of filling up the blanks, I’d rather leave to you.

But it really doesn’t matter whom you put upon this list,
For they’d none of ’em be missed — they’ll none of ’em be missed!

CHORUS: You may put ’em on the list — you may put ’em on the list;
And they’ll none of ’em be missed — they’ll none of ’em be missed!

[END SONG]

(It’s rough, and it doesn’t all quite fit, but I’m happy with it.)

Falconer
Falconer
4 years ago

Bravo, PI!

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
4 years ago

I loved reading that – thank you, PI!

Robert
Robert
4 years ago

This reminded me of a memory fragment. When the German government released its list of banned writers, artists, et cetera, in the ’30s, a poet* realized, to his alarm, that he was NOT on the list. So he wrote an exhortatory poem, addressed to the authorities, demanding to be considered a degenerate and banned like every other true artist. That took more courage than that possessed by Theodore Beale, Curtis Yarvin, and the rest of these superfluous letters put together. More true wit, as well.

*Wish I could say more, but that’s all I have.

Rabukurafuto
Rabukurafuto
4 years ago

Brilliant parody, PI! Definitely a highlight of my day.

Fishy Goat
Fishy Goat
4 years ago

@ PI

🙂 Wonderful!!!

@ Pandapool Thanks for the info. 🙂

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
4 years ago

I don’t get this thing about “using pseudonyms” instead of your “actual legal name”. Can someone explain this?

An awful lot of people don’t go by their legal names. In fact, given that middle names are part of your legal names, I’d be surprised if anybody did at all.

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
4 years ago

Batman is cool when people remember that there’s more to him than Frank fssking Miller. He sucks when he’s reduced to that one interpretation.

I really liked the Batman of the Justice League cartoon. Genuinely didn’t work very well with others, but intelligent and compassionate. I think he saved Wonder Woman from an awkward social situation once (no, literally) and that impressed me, too. He recognized she was uncomfortable and stepped in to help, showing that heroism isn’t just about punching evil in the face until it gives up.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
4 years ago

@Paradoxical

comment image

Nikki the Bluth Wannabe
Nikki the Bluth Wannabe
4 years ago

Ye gods. This “enemies list” and its ever-changing criteria are making my head spin.

Nikki the Bluth Wannabe
Nikki the Bluth Wannabe
4 years ago
Eibhear
Eibhear
4 years ago

@PI: wonderful!

@chosen_name,
I’d never heard of Arthur Chu, but thanks for introducing me to his writing. His dissection of Scott Aaronson’s grotesquely embarrassing (to put it kindly) post was also excellent.

dlouwe
dlouwe
4 years ago

Also, all beer is rotgut

I don’t get this. I like beer. You don’t, and that’s cool. Why the need to tear it down?

WeirwoodTreeHugger
WeirwoodTreeHugger
4 years ago

Dlouwe,
It seems to be a thing on the internet these days. To be really over dramatic about your food and beverage preferences. The stuff you like in your mouth is the best and all who deny it are monsters. The stuff you don’t like is the worst and anyone who likes it are monsters.

I don’t really get it either. Why does the internet care if I like turkey bacon and deep dish pizza? Why is there a site dedicated to banning cilantro? I just don’t get it either.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
4 years ago

Also, all beer is rotgut

I don’t get this. I like beer. You don’t, and that’s cool. Why the need to tear it down?

All beer is rotgut. It’s been decreed.

dlouwe
dlouwe
4 years ago

@WWTH

I see similar things when it comes to a lot of subjective tastes, though it does seem like food is especially “volatile” – maybe because not everyone watches TV, or plays video games, but pretty much everybody eats?

Number Sequence
Number Sequence
4 years ago

Would that all people think that way, dlouwe. I cannot tell you how much shit I have caught for not liking beer, or any alcohol for that matter.

As for your confusion, I thought it was clear from context that I meant, “This is my, admittedly strong, opinion,” and not, “Fuck beer and everyone who likes it.” I still hate it and don’t understand how anyone can stand it, but it doesn’t bother me that people do. Sorry if that wasn’t apparent.

Imaginary Petal
Imaginary Petal
4 years ago

@dlouwe

Yeah, that’s a pet peeve of mine too.

isidore13
isidore13
4 years ago

@dlouwe, @IP, I have to admit I’ve said things like that – but never about something someone’s actually actively eating, or interrupting a discussion, only when asked my opinion of a specific food.

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

There’s a site dedicated to banning cilantro? I mean, I get that there’s a genetic variant that causes it to taste like soap for some people, but then just don’t eat it? I have a genetic variant that causes my immune system to attack my gut when I eat certain foods, but the most I’ve done is sign petitions around better regulation of food labeling. These fools just don’t like the flavor of something and they ask for it to be banned?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

I think the only potential justification for campaigning against a food is where there’s a food security issue.

So where a food suddenly becomes trendy but has a cost to other people then it may be ok to raise the issue. Take Quinoa for example. That suddenly became a hip food choice, which fuelled demand and put the price up. That had a severe knock on effect in the countries where it’s grown and it’s a food staple for the local populace (who could no longer afford it, assuming their local supply hadn’t been exported anyway).

That’s more of an awareness issue though; and in the grand scheme of things it’s our over consumption of food generally that leads to malnutrition and starvation in other parts of the world. Rather than banning any particular food we’d be better off ensuring an equitable distribution of food generally.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
4 years ago

Plus the whole, ‘Ghomeshi was a feminist, so maybe red-pillers aren’t really so bad‘ defence,

Which might be more of a defence if there hadn’t been comments about what he was like back at York University (in the ‘don’t be alone with him’ sense) suggesting that he might have been using his public support of feminism to get close to people even then.

Not to mention that ‘women are as much people as everybody else’ and ‘I should be allowed to choke people to make me happy’ aren’t actually contradictory: it just suggests you might be dealing with straight-up narcissism rather than just misogyny. It’s possible to see women as equal to men and still consider oneself above all that.

dlouwe
dlouwe
4 years ago

@Number Sequence

That’s fair, I had originally read it as an objection to an earlier post differentiating rotgut from good beer (i.e. “There is no such thing as good beer”) rather than just personal opinion. In fact, until fairly recently I would have agreed; I couldn’t touch beer until my mid 20’s. Before then even a couple sips would literally turn my stomach.

Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut

Jarnsaxa | April 14, 2016 at 3:23 pm
I really liked the Batman of the Justice League cartoon. Genuinely didn’t work very well with others, but intelligent and compassionate. I think he saved Wonder Woman from an awkward social situation once (no, literally) and that impressed me, too. He recognized she was uncomfortable and stepped in to help, showing that heroism isn’t just about punching evil in the face until it gives up.

That’s also the reason I really liked the Animated Series Batman. He wasn’t just “WHERE ARE THEY?!”, “SWEAR TO ME!” and “I AM THE NIGHT!” hoarsely shouted for an hour and a half, he was also very compassionate and understood that his villains weren’t always villains because they wanted to be, sometimes they were also victims of circumstance.

For instance, one of my favorite episodes is Harley’s Holiday, where she finally gets out of Arkham, and there’s a few bad coincidences starting with a dress in a department store that end up putting her back in her life of crime because she was so frustrated that she didn’t know how everything worked, and felt like she was being pushed around by everyone.

The end of the episode has Batman escorting Harley back into Arkham, and giving her the dress that started the whole kerfuffle.

She asks him, kinda teary-eyed: “Why are you being so nice to me?”

And he responds: “Because I had a bad day once too.”

I miss this Batman.

I also miss Terry McGinnis from Batman Beyond. Vastly underrated show, if you ask me.
_____________

For everyone who liked my parody: Aw, thanks everyone! 😀 I worked all of five minutes on it, and I richly deserve all the praise. [/slight sarcasm]

For those among us who aren’t fans of The Mikado, here’s the tune, via Thomas Allen:

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

For me, there’s only one Batman (also the coolest Batmobile)

http://xmb.stuffucanuse.com/xmb/image.php?&aid=1937&batman-bomb.jpg

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
4 years ago

Harley’s Holiday

I remember that episode, yes. You really did feel sorry for poor Harley after that. All that starting just because she was so excited that she didn’t let them remove the security tag from the dress she’d just bought before dashing for the door.

Pretty much all of my friends consider Batman: The Animated Series to be the definitive Batman, against which all others are compared (and usually found wanting). And it’s because of things like that, where the characters were, at their heart, human and flawed. Including and especially the hero.

Some of them were just doing a better job of trying to make the best of it than others.

dlouwe
dlouwe
4 years ago

Agree with all the above about Batman: TAS. I always had a soft spot for Clayface, myself. It’s too bad they didn’t give him more episodes, apparently he was too expensive to animate and difficult to write for.

Number Sequence
Number Sequence
4 years ago

@dlouwe

That’s probably why the word got into my head. I do have an issue with recycling words I just heard/read without realizing it.

But yeah, I’m on your side, though I don’t see the protesting, so to speak, as much as everyone else does. I usually get, “You don’t like thing?! What? No, you must like thing!” It is aggrivating.

FrickleFrackle
FrickleFrackle
4 years ago

My friend likes BTAS and her online icon on a few sites is a pretty infamous scowling Joker face from that series. He was voiced by Hamill and boy oh boy was he great! He had lines like “You killed Captain Clown? You killed Captain Clown?!” Can’t wait for The Killing Joke animated movie! Now, if only Jared Leto took some cues from Hamill on how to portray such an iconic character…

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
4 years ago

The BTAS and JLA version of Batman is definitely my favorite version of the character. I used to read the comics too, back in the ’80s and ’90s. I remember reading The Dark Knight Returns and hating it. I came back and read it again later and decided that I admired the artistry of it, but I still don’t care for it very much. The Killing Joke… ah, so cool when I was fifteen, but looking at it now… No, just no.

On the other hand, I would recommend Knightfall. For all that it’s overblown, horribly grimdark and ableist, it nails its colours to the mast and says ‘being an asshole is not what Batman does. If you are an asshole, you’d make a lousy Batman.’

Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut

@FrickleFrackle: Yeah, he’s too busy being an edgelord by sending his co-stars used condoms, which I’m pretty sure would constitute sexual harassment, and pigs scrawled with the phrase “Am I like Ledger yet?!” all over them.

I’m ashamed to admit I like 30 Seconds to Mars now.

The levels of Try-Hard in this movie is already staggering.

FrickleFrackle
FrickleFrackle
4 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCiFO7qV54E

Actual Theme Song of Suicide Squad

katz
4 years ago

For my money, the worst food people are the whole milk people. Their level of “must harangue you for your personal choice of different food options” makes the carnivores look tolerant.

Dustinzeit
Dustinzeit
4 years ago

@Paradoxical Intention

You should be ashamed of liking 30 Seconds to Mars in and of itself. Good taste is probably as foreign a concept to your palate as sunscreen to an Ethiopian.

dslucia
dslucia
4 years ago

@Number Sequence:

“This is my strong opinion” didn’t get conveyed to me so much as “fuck you if you like beer” because responding to “Some beer is good” with “All beer is rotgut” is highly antagonistic. The way it comes across, at least to me, is that anybody who likes beer must just be wrong and their body must be wrong for being able to handle/enjoy beer.

Moggie
Moggie
4 years ago

PI, bravo. And about this:

And that singular anomaly, the PoC Sci-Fi novelist —
I don’t think she’d be missed — I’m sure she’d not be missed!

I suppose one good thing to come out of VD’s general garbageness is that I started reading N. K. Jemisin. I’m really enjoying The Fifth Season at the moment.

banned@4chan.org
banned@4chan.org
4 years ago

I’ve heard of people incredibly excited about raw (non-pasteurized) milk, but not people who want to loudly tell you their opinions on whole milk.

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

@Moggie
Ooh, thanks for the recommendation!

Freemage
Freemage
4 years ago

On the food critique subject:

This isn’t really a new thing. Case in point: http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1993-08-04/news/1993216204_1_hot-dogs-ketchup-chicago-dog

Part of it, of course, is just hyperbole for fun. I have some rather vulgar descriptions of broccoli, because I literally will gag and spit it out if I try to eat some, and because the smell of it cooking makes me nauseated. So I tend to speak of it as one would any hellspawned obscenity. If you make the statement sufficiently absurd and self-aggrandizing, it’s usually clear that no, you don’t literally think that people who like/don’t like some food are defective, and in fact you’re mocking your own extreme reaction to the subject.

It gets dodgier when people step back from being completely over the top, because then it’s harder to tell if they’re being hyperbolic or just assholish. In my experience, it’s usually the fans of something that fall into this category, rather than the detractors (at least, when it comes to foods). Food snobs are far more likely to seriously rip into someone who dislikes their personal faves. (Compare/contrast to the way GamerGators react to the idea that their medium is rife with sexist portrayals of women. The more you identify as a ‘fan’ of something, the easier it is to become rabidly defensive when that thing is criticized or dismissed.)