People used to say that Steve Jobs had a sort of “reality distortion field” that surrounded him like an aura, that his charisma and enthusiasm were so off the charts that he was able to convince those in his presence (and, quite often, himself) of almost anything.
The people I tend to write about on this blog also seem to live within reality distortion fields of their own making, but instead of seeing the world through Apple-colored glasses they come to believe a lot of stupid and terrible things about women. And in the process, some have become incapable of seeing what is right there before their eyes.
Take, for example, the surreal discussion of the new Sally Field comedy Hello, My Name is Doris that I ran across recently on the MGTOW forums on GoingYourOwnWay.com.
The film tells the story of a comically frumpy and awkward older woman (Field) who gets the hots for a charming, handsome and much younger co-worker (Max Greenfield). I haven’t seen the movie, so I have no idea if the two end up together. Or if the movie is any good.
The fellows on GoingYourOwnWay.com haven’t seen the movie either, but they have some pretty strong feelings about it regardless, notably the feeling “eeeeeeeeww!” They’re not only offended and disgusted by the idea of the two getting together; they’re angry that any old lady could even think she could bag a much younger man.
“Well i like older women but this garbage glory hole piece of garbage grand parent slut i wouldnt be able to puncture,” one commenter declares.
“[I]ts not a rom com its a fucking crime against nature, a freakish out growth that exists only after years of gynocidal feminist garbage has poisoned us all,” adds another.
So far this is all pretty standard MGTOW stuff. After all, these are guys who, like so many others in the manosphere, think women “hit the wall” by the age of thirty, if not earlier.
What’s interesting to me is how old they think Sally Field is.
In the post that opens the thread, titled “New fantasy for post-wall women,” a commenter who calls himself Nuggets describes the film thusly:
Romantic comedy with 50-ish woman seducing the 20 something new hire guy at her job. I always find shit like this hilarious. Probably the beginning of a new trend for movies. Bleh
In a followup comment, he adds:
It’s like they’re in total denial that she’s old. They’re trying so hard to present her as an “omg so awkward” 23 year old woman, even though the actress who plays her is 54. That’s exactly how women think though, especially the target demographic for this movie. Picture some grannies going to see this, gives me the creeps mang.
Sally Field is 69 years old, not 54. She played “The Flying Nun” in the 1960s, for god’s sake.
Not only that, but in the film she’s done up in a way that makes her look even older — as you can see from the film’s trailer, which Nuggets helpfully posted to the thread:
Here she is at the film’s premiere, with somewhat better styling:
For purposes of comparison, here’s another 69-year-old who’s been in the news a lot lately:
Now, I should point out that several commenters on GoYourOwnWay.com piped up to set Nuggets straight on Field’s actual age. And, for what it’s worth, Nugget is also off on the age of Sally Field’s movie crush. The actor playing her co-worker isn’t “20 something.” He’s 35.
But Nuggets’ confusion about Field’s age is telling.
Does he think that when women ‘hit the wall,” at whatever arbitrary age he thinks this happens, that they immediately start shrinking down and drying up, transforming from “hot babes” into an army of bitter old crones?
Is he so convinced that “women age like milk,” as misogynists often say, that he simply can’t see all the women who don’t?
Newsflash, MGTOW dudes: lots of men find older women attractive.
In the real world, to be sure, it’s pretty rare for 35-year-old men to date 69-year-old women. But the inverse is also true, and there are plenty of men who are interested in the older women that MGTOWs profess to be so disgusted by, even if they lack the age-defying powers of a Helen Mirren. Indeed, one recent study by AARP found that a third of 40-something women who were dating were dating younger men.
Physical attraction doesn’t abide by the rules that people like MGTOWs try to impose upon it. Contrary to the assertions of manosphere “wall theory,” not all men are forever obsessed with 18-year-old supermodel virgins.
One of the weirder aspects of straight male sexuality is that men are often afraid to admit when they find themselves attracted to women who don’t measure up to some arbitrary standard of conventional attractiveness.
That’s why you see so many teenage boys and young men online loudly proclaiming that they “would not bang” this or that celebrity woman due to some weird and imaginary flaws (“pointy elbows”); their proclamations are often so obviously and ridiculously untrue they’ve inspired a popular meme, here applied to a perfectly lovely cat:
MGTOWs are men who’ve never outgrown this phase; indeed, they’ve turned their cries of “would not bang” into a life philosophy of sorts. Some of them must realize that they’re protesting too much.
But others, like Nuggets, have become so enmeshed in their own nonsense they can’t ever see straight. Bad ideas can be a strangely powerful thing.
@Razzamatazz
Another welcome from me as well! Didn’t see you there at first for some reason. I’m glad you are liking it here so far, this place is awesome!
Also, just as Victorious Parasol said, I am also pretty curious about what the differences are to you between feminists and people who are pro women’s rights. Would you mind elaborating?
@Terrance
Ok Jamie and/or Aris, that’s enough sockpuppeting for today. I can see you’re getting cranky. Time for a nap.
This is a feminist site, but you are not required to identify as a feminist to be welcome here. There are a few things you need to take on board to be welcome here, but they are basic-level everyone-is-a-human-being things, and the comment policy covers them.
@Terrance
No problem! With that dealt with, you are free to go your own way! Off you go, you scamp!
This has what to do with Sally Field playing a character who likes a younger man?
Terrance, dear naive child, no. Not at all. Men can totally go their own way. Feminism is, believe it or not, about BOTH GENDERS being allowed to go their own way to do whatever the fuck makes them happy! What a fucking concept!
What we, here on this blog, have a problem with is MGTOW men who ‘go their own way’ by sitting on their asses all day and complaining about women. Complaining about women dressing too ‘slutty’ because that makes them a tease or ‘rape bait’. Or dressing too conservatively because that makes them a standoffish cunt who thinks she’s too good for any man. Or women who fuck men. Or women who fuck women. Or have a job outside the house. Or don’t have a job and are dependent on a man financially. Or behave in any way that isn’t total submission to whatever men want at all times, even though what men, and especially what MGTOWs, want is often contradictory.
So please, don’t mistake having a problem with MGTOWs for having a problem with men who actually go their own way.
@ Terrance
I’m sure that sounded very impressive when you were thinking it up, but it’s not just a strawman: it’s an old and tired strawman. We’ve seen it before, and it would be more useful as compost.
@Razzamatazz
You’re not alone here, friend
OT
It’s not even about him treating women like objects (I’m mean, it is about that, but let’s put that aside for half a second). More interestingly, what’s going on that he sees fucking things as puncturing? How cheaply made are his toys? Hypodermic needles puncture, bullets puncture, teeth puncture. Is he assuming Sally Field has an intact hymen, maybe? That’s like the best case scenario, I can think of, and even that’s… weird
See, now I’ve gone and thought about it too much, and now I can’t stop thinking about it. shudders
@Razzamatazz,
😀
I’m curious why you don’t identify as feminist but are pro-woman, too! Is it the negative connotations that the culture at large has with the word?
@Terrance
aaaahahaha, dood, your perceptions are so far up your butt that you’re a goddamn klein bottle. Like, I need to bust out the linalg to figure out what head-space you’re in. Your ideas only work if you include the imaginary set.
a) Please direct me to the works of a feminist who has ‘a problem with men defending their sovereignty from womens’ misandric oppression’.
b) Please allow yourself to succumb to your weariness of ‘supporting and defending’ women. Release the fantasy of being the stalwart defender of wimmenfolk – it is a fantasy to you and a terror to everyone else. Women have been ‘supporting and defending’ themselves forever – usually against the men who claim to own them.
Go your own way! Please! I suggest lovely and scenic Snake Island.
Social Justice Atheist,
I have never examined feminism my entire life. I’ve seen & heard the word. I’ve also heard different men call women feminazis, which I interpreted to be something highly negative. When I think of feminists, I’ve always thought it was something extreme. So, because I still don’t know enough about it, I won’t call myself one.
For most of my life, I’ve only really had close friendships with females. All of them very nice people. A few have been married, a few have been divorced. Most of the women I have been in contact with have not had happy relationships and marriages. I’ve witnessed some bad things they have gone through. So, until recently, I had this belief that “very few” women are at fault in bad marriages and relationships, etc. I was blaming the men most of the time for what went wrong. I also tended to be more concerned for women’s welfares–not the men.
So that’s what I mean by pro female. It’s similar to how mgtow seem to automatically assume the females are at fault. I see the error of my ways.
Now, I basically try to look at males and females as just “people” and there being good and bad in everything and everyone. We each have to take responsibility for our lives.
@Razzamatazz, no worries on my part; I wasn’t personally offended. I’m glad you’re commenting, and I definitely understand the frustration at the hypocrisy. Hope you enjoy hanging around the site. 🙂
Totally legit. I hope that some day you find the time and inclination to look into it more deeply, but I have to respect this rationale.
As an aside, women don’t typically like to be referred to as “females.” I extend that to men, personally, and refrain from calling men “males,” although men don’t seem to have as much of an issue about it. But calling a woman a “female” is sort of erasing her humanity. Lab rats are females; people are not.
It’s really frustrating to me that fields like law enforcement, demography, and the military insist on referring to people as genders rather than as people.
These guys are like box wine that’s turned into vinegar, and is also full of dead fruit flies. I once ended up on a date with a guy who tried to use this “game” shit, which mostly involved sitting across the table with a smug look on his face and nothing worthwhile to say, except for the occasional cretinous neg comment. He broke by the end of the meal.
Thinking about it, I still am fairly pro female in that (so far) I tend to have more and easier friendships with women. I have a better understanding of women. I always want the best for the friends in my life, but I don’t want to have the beliefs that women are better than men. I try to fight those thoughts when they sometimes arise…
Marriage is not enslavement. Slaves don’t choose to be slaves. If you don’t want to get married then don’t. Hmmm, feminism is pretty big on challenging things like the idea that everyone needs to get married and have babies. You can thank feminism for that.
Alimony isn’t common these days because feminism has enabled women to go to higher education and get higher paid jobs. You can thank feminism for that too.
Now as for child support, that is for the children that men help to make. It has nothing to do with supporting ex partners and everything to do with supporting a child that you fucking created. Children are expensive. Plus, if the father is the custodial parent the mother pays the child support so fuck off with that bullshit.
As I said above, feminism has enabled us to get better paid jobs. I’m a single mum and so the rent, bills and everything else I pay for myself. So again, fuck off with that bullshit.
Yes we can. There’s a whole range of toys out there that are far more interesting than you and your penis. Nobody is interested in getting “punctured” (puke) by hateful fuckheads like you so go your own way, we won’t miss you.
I have a quibble! A very itty bitty quibble. I disagree with David that Sally Field is better styled in the photo than the trailer. I find the supposed “frumpy old lady” outfits cute and full of personality (granted, you can’t see her outfit in the photo). Particularly the hair ribbons. GIANT HAIR RIBBONS!
Now if I can start talking like the adult human that I am… Okay. So some MGTOWs complain that a movie portrayed something they find gross. Mm-hm. I’m sure a lot of movies portray things that they or other people find gross: gory violence, throwing up, Rodents of Unusual Size, giant hair ribbons… but they’re making a fuss about specifically this thing. It’s not like they just want to insult and demean women, do they? Nah. Certainly not. One of them even likes older women, really.
bluecat, I am so envious of your husband.
Kootiepatra,
I agree about this site. And many of you here are “wickedly good” writers! And the topics are on point. Very interesting and informative.
Now, I’ll give you all here a long break from me and my long posts. Have a great day!
Welcome, Razzamatazz (I like that name, and what else rhymes with “all that jazz”? Not much.)
I don’t think feminism is about thinking that women are better than men (or vice-versa either). It’s about recognizing how women have been/are being treated unfairly compared to men, and working to combat the attitudes and social structures that made things that way.
Personally I find it’s most useful to think about feminism as intersectional (I love the concept, but wish the word were more accessible – that 5-syllable blob sounds forbiddingly academic). Anyway… I mean that recognizing unfair social structures also should lead to better treatment for everyone, and that feminists should challenge racism, homophobia, transphobia, body-shaming, etc.
I hope that made sense! I also thought your comment about personal responsibility was good and clearly stated – I’d just like to extend that to say that feminism isn’t about thinking “girls rule and boys drool” (in other words, it isn’t gender-flipped MGTOWing).
In a world where Dude Stick exists, I wouldn’t put it past someone to have actually made Bacon-flavored Brogurt.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
When men don’t want to get married, I don’t see any feminist forcing them to. Hell, I don’t see any feminist demanding anyone be forced to marry. I’ve seen feminists protesting for same-sex marriage, but I’ve never seen a feminist protesting to force anyone to get married against their will.
Especially these hateful sewage smoothies! Why the fuck would we force these assholes to get married to some poor women they would obviously hate because she can’t meet their contradicting standards?
I mean, what person wants to be stuck in a relationship where it’s nothing but “You’re a piece of shit and I hate you, but you still have to serve me!”? We have laws against cruel and unusual punishment!
I don’t give a shit that they don’t want to get married or date (more power to them, and asexual and aromantic people are a thing), but I do give a shit that they’re throwing a temper tantrum in the doorway to try to guilt me into feeling sorry enough for them to kowtow to their impossible demands.
STFU and GTFO, MGTOWs. Go your own fucking way already. I release you. Shoo. ‘Git offa my lawn.
Ten steps ahead of you, cupcake. Feel free to fuck off at any time. I don’t need someone to “support and defend” me, especially when they’re so obviously spiteful about it.
We can swear here, sweetie, this the internet, not a PG-13 movie. We don’t get one singular fuck to share between us.
That being said, at least my vibrator knows where my clitoris is, and when cis men can have 10-inch rainbow-colored dragon-looking dicks then you can give me a call.
In the meantime, Jackie and I have got that covered too.
@PI
omg, rainbow coloured, dragon looking dicks? Where from? Need this immediately!
Why yes, yes we can!!
http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/37200000/Stifler-gif-seann-william-scott-37201235-300-160.gif
@GenJones
He broke?! In what way? And did you make him break? Or was it the delicious, delicious spring rolls and the tasty Tofu Delight? I don’t think I’m alone when I say, I need to know more! (If you want to say more, of course.)
Its interesting that the topic turned to negging as I never got the point of negging. Then again, I’m interested in an actual relationship not a one night stand and, why say something bad unnecessarily about someone you’d want that with.
Also, one small quasi-question from page 1: A quick google indicated a Scientific America article indicating you can get Butter without mention of aging (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/bring-science-home-shaking-butter/), although I may have missed something. Although it did lead me to try to find a video of the Futurama “Yogurt in a hat” clip but I failed.
And, even if you are somewhat agist on looks, why feel the need to be mean or insulting about it (and, as David implied, both genders are effected by age)? Everyone’s a human being with real feelings and, if you don’t find a particular actress or movie interesting, just don’t watch it.
And, regarding older male actors with younger women in movies? That’s one reason that Manhattan, left such a sour taste in my mouth. Although in a non-statutory way, Entrapment kind of struck me as unreasonable too…
Sorry for the rambling but I wanted to address a bunch of points.
Being in the military, myself, I’ve actually seen platoon sergeants say “women,” stop themselves and apologize, and then correct themselves to “females.” It was actually kind of funny, because who do they think is going to be offended by being called women if they’re, y’know, women?
The premises behind negging are that women want and need the approval of men, and that men deserve to have interactions with women that fully prioritize male comfort. So if a man gives a woman the idea that he isn’t 100% pleased with her, she will jump to prove that she is 100% pleasing, which makes his interactions with her easier for him.
You don’t get the point of negging because you’re an intelligent person who can see plainly that these premises are both kind of bullshit.