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antifeminism entitled babies memes

Men Oppressed by Sleeves: A Memeday Special Report

sleeves
Dress code requires everyone to wear skirts, dude! Go home and change.

Never underestimate the ability of Men’s Rights Activists to get worked up over the most ridiculous nonsense.

I found the meme above on the Men’s Rights Australia Facebook page, accompanied by this explanation:

Women are allowed to wear whatever they like to work, including sleeveless tops, short skirts, and even thongs. Yet if a man were to wear sleeveless tops, shorts, or thongs you can be sure he’d be sent home from work or even fired. In summer men have to suffer in the heat wearing trousers, long sleeve shirts, and tie. Feminists claim they also care about inequalities facing men so why aren’t they fighting against this? -ms

YEAH FEMINISTS WHY AREN’T YOU FIGHTING AGAINST THIS TERRIBLE INJUSTICE, WOMEN NEVER HAVE TO WEAR ANYTHING UNCOMFORTABLE OR AWKWARD AT WORK 0h wait

Note: I should point out that the “thongs” being referenced aren’t the ones that ride up your butt, but rather are the ones you wear on your feet and that are also called flip flops, at least here in the US.

BONUS MEME: This isn’t a Men’s Rights meme, obviously, but it literally made me laugh out loud.

communism

Apparently the best way to fight communism is to do nothing while the oceans rise. I guess the Communists have their secret bases on the Marshall Islands?

I’m reminded of this legendary toilet paper ad.

2439695420_ce0033c184_o

A spectre is haunting the bathroom — the spectre of really really scratchy toilet paper.

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katz
5 years ago

Who else thinks his conversation with a woman went like this:

RUPRECT: You’ve never been sexually harassed, right?

WOMAN: Um, well…

RUPRECT: See, I knew sexual harassment wasn’t real! I’m glad you agree with me. You’re much more rational than those other women.

sevenofmine
sevenofmine
5 years ago

@ katz

That’s kind of what I was thinking. And I mean A LOT of women have a hard time labeling the things that have happened to them as harassment/assault/rape precisely because the world is full of Ruprects who deny and dismiss their experiences. It’s just all part of how the game is rigged.

Skiriki
Skiriki
5 years ago

*wakes up, yawns, picks up a kitty from a place where she’s not supposed to be aka server monitor’s top and that’s a LCD, not CRT, silly kitty*

*craves breakfast, sniffs something tasty coming from a browser window left on overnight*

*wanders to desktop, sniffles until she finds the right screen, sniff sniff sniff smells like roasted troll yum my fave breakfast*

Awwwwww.

*pokes at charred leftover bones and gristle*

Dangit. Wanted a bite of that.

Kat
Kat
5 years ago

Number five zero four.

And Skiriki, my boyfriend and I laughed at your “roasted troll” comment. I hope that the kitty bath went well.

guest
guest
5 years ago

‘Side note: I work at home now, people suck and outside is bullshit.’

Hear fucking hear. I’ve been off work sick for about a week and a half…have to go back into the office tomorrow…. I used to work from home (visited office or client maybe 1-2 times a week, was paid for having to leave the house)–wish I could do that again.

Skiriki
Skiriki
5 years ago

Kat: Kittybath has not happened yet, mostly because I’m trying to figure out if kittylitter is contributing to her smell or not. We should find it out soon, old litterstuff is now almost gone and I got new litter in use.

But yeah, I mean, imagine tenderly then fiercely roasted troll, served with some melted cheese toast and possibly a side order of omelette or fried eggs. Or grilled mushrooms, that would be nice.

Lacking troll, I could always enjoy some mini-bratwursts, nice crispy brown on the outside, mmmmmmm…

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

What proudfootz said.

On three occasions I have argued with women about feminism. One was a woman who said that unless I was a TERF, I couldn’t call myself a feminist. The second was a woman who said that feminism was simply hatred of men and had no place in western society. The third was a woman who said that she and the other #GGers were the real feminists, and Anita Sarkeesian was a (string of gendered expletives redacted.)

I don’t want to be the ally of any of these people.

Skiriki
Skiriki
5 years ago

I’m gonna post something nice now:

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35834370

Imaginary Petal
Imaginary Petal
5 years ago

I’m always suspicious of people whose solution to everything is to do nothing. Everything will work itself out if you just ignore it!

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ IP

Your point certainly applies in the case of infected injuries if the doctor who pumped me full of antibiotics is to be believed.

Kat
Kat
5 years ago

@Imaginary Petal

I’m always suspicious of people whose solution to everything is to do nothing. Everything will work itself out if you just ignore it!

Yes! According the them, the status quo is beautiful if viewed in just the right light. And anyway, don’t be silly–you’ll get used to the status quo!

Kat
Kat
5 years ago

@Skiriki
Ooh, in that case, good luck if and when you decide to bathe her.

And I know that I speak for all of us when I say that I’m sorry we ate all the roasted troll. There was some confusion about whether we had roasted one or two trolls, and we were so distracted by that, that we ate it all. Next time!

Ruprect
Ruprect
5 years ago

In summary:

Objectification of people is bad, but it becomes worse when the objectified person lacks social power.

Economic/social change alone cannot solve the problems of women because the objectification of women is orthogonal to the economic system.

Also, the unfortunate position that women find themselves in isn’t a result of biology, but an artifact of the culture.

Is that basically what you are saying?

Anyway, when I say that there is a problem with identity politics, I mean that (1) there is a tendency to think that *everything* is about cultural/sexual/ identity (I say: “the failure of the SJW to seriously criticize economic liberalism/ big finance is a problem”, someone insinuates that I’m anti-semitic) (2) You can’t listen to what anyone has said once you’ve decided they are against you – because if someone is attacking your identity rather than your ideas, you’ve got to defend yourself no matter what.

Anyway, I’m not an MRA, not really a libertarian (not an internet one, anyway), um… I’m not in favour of harassing women, or anyone else (all I’ve ever said is that rules enforcing basic politeness would be *insufficient* – and that I’m somewhat dubious of the SJW (or whatever you want to call it) agenda, and also not really any of the other things I’ve been accused of being.

The question I asked to the woman in question was “when was the last time a man came up to you in the street and said something that made you feel uncomfortable”. She couldn’t remember it happening, but also said that she was aware that such a thing could happen and that this caused her some anxiety.

Anyway, thanks to all of you for your answers and replies. I might not give the impression that I’m listening (I think it’s a normal human response to want to ‘stick to your guns’) rest assured that I have heard what you said, and I’ll be cogitating upon it over the coming weeks and months.
Take care!

Skiriki
Skiriki
5 years ago

Kat: As long as roasting the troll was done efficiently! Based on what I read… it was. 😀

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

In a way it’s a pity the chap has gone as something cropped up over the weekend that seems relevant to the whole thing about why it’s important to listen to women. I’ll stick it here anyway in case he’s still lurking.

I was chatting to one of my real world friends. She mentioned that she was down because of all the hassle she was getting whenever she left her house. Her friends chipped in with similar experiences. Now it’s not like we spend our time endlessly discussing feminist issues, but the fact that this topic came up just in response to a general “Hows things with you?” query shows how prevalent this is.

But to his point about how he’s not really seen any examples of women being harassed (and his consequent ‘scepticism’). The thing is, I’ve never seen any examples of harassment when I’ve been out with women friends, yet just about every woman I know reports this experience.

So, either there’s something different going on when I’m present, or all women have conspired to lie about this. Let’s examine those two alternatives.

Might my being present skew things and, if so, why? Well perhaps it’s because (a) creeps see women as property, so if they see me with a woman then she’s already ‘taken’ and they hold back out of consideration to another man; or (b) they think there might be consequences if they try something like that when I’m present. That seems plausible.

Or are all women conspiring to lie about this? Well, to go back to basics we can ask Cicero’s “Cui Bono?”. In other words what’s in it for women to do that?. There doesn’t seem to be any advantage in doing so (arguably, quite the opposite) so why would they? Therefore even disregarding the fact that this would have to be a conspiracy involving more people than the supposed Apollo hoax, there appears to be no evidence for this hypothesis.

So we can reasonably conclude that, if we only went by the personal experiences of men, we would erroneously assume that harassment doesn’t happen. The only way men can find out harassment is happening is through the experiences of women.

And that’s why it’s so important to listen to women on this subject if you really want to know what’s going on.

If you’re out there Mr Ruprect I hope that addresses your queries.

sevenofmine
sevenofmine
5 years ago

@ Alan

I think there’s a c) possibility which is that you may actually have witnessed it but, because it’s not a thing happening directly to you every time you stick your nose out your front door, it doesn’t register as more than a minor, easily forgettable annoyance .

occasional reader
occasional reader
5 years ago

Hello.

I wonder : is “Notes from a boner” an answer to “the Vagina Monologues”?

Also, the complaint of those two persos makes me think about an old song from Jacques Dutronc “Et moi, et mo,i et moi !”.

Have a nice day !

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ seven

I’d like to think that if it happened I would have noticed (and done something about it); but I certainly can’t rule out that possibility. Maybe a man can spot obvious stuff like cat calling and abuse, but are there are non-verbal ways of harassing that slip under my radar perhaps?

I’d hope that if that happened any woman I was with would mention it; but there’s that whole conditioning thing where women are socialised ‘not to make a fuss’ or maybe it’s just so prevalent that women have just got used to giving an internal exasperated sigh and moving on.

Again, this is something that men can only find out by listening to women rather than going by their own, completely different, experiences.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
5 years ago

I wonder : is “Notes from a boner” an answer to “the Vagina Monologues”?

It’s a reference to Captain Awkward’s excellent article of the same name.

I’d like to think that if it happened I would have noticed (and done something about it); but I certainly can’t rule out that possibility. Maybe a man can spot obvious stuff like cat calling and abuse, but are there are non-verbal ways of harassing that slip under my radar perhaps?

Maybe. I’ve told a story before of the time I was gently dry humped on a busy Underground train by a man trying to pretend it was the swing of the carriage making him press his crotch into my ass. It’s possible that he was being subtle enough that nobody knew it was happening except for me. Not even my colleagues seemed to notice. And you know how much everyone keeps to their own little worlds on the tube.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
5 years ago

Wait? Red pillers are upset about being judged based on their actions? I…um…I don’t suppose there is a way to make that make sense? I’m getting a divide by zero error here. Maybe some big manly STEMLogik dude can explain it to me, like I’m five? *doe eyes*

Don’t you realise, silly lady brain holder? If they’re getting positive comments for the things they’ve done then that means in order to get positive comments, they have to actually DO things.

THEY HAVE TO DO THINGS.

Menz have to actually EARN compliments based on THEIR WORDS AND ACTIONS. They can’t be praised and adored just for showing up, which is totes the natural right of dudes according to Red Pill Troof. Meanwhile us wimmins get compliments on our bodies just by walking down the street! Can you not see how men are oppressed in today’s society?!

booburry
booburry
5 years ago

Skiriki~ My unsolicited cat bath advice is to use water that is a lot warmer than you would typically bathe in. Cats run at 100-102°f and so will usually want water that is warmer than what us human folks would want. Good luck if you end up having to do it. I shudder at the thought of having to bathe my cats any time soon.

FrickleFrackle
FrickleFrackle
5 years ago

I EMERGE FROM THE LURKVOID TO COMMENT
Hello all, I’ve been reading the site and its comments for around a year now, and I really enjoy the people here. What I love espeically is how you all drag trolls around, never gets old. I and a friend (let’s call her M) read last week’s troll aloud with a BIG DRAMATIC VOICE while playing music from the Metal Gear Rising soundtrack because he was such a ham. Hell, let’s call trolls like that “Drizzle”, because they sound like the unlicensed Chinese knockoff of Monsoon.

A bit of info about me, 19 y/o suburbanite from Texas, cishet white guy, likes guns but hates how they’re so often downplayed as a social issue, and I read this site because I don’t want to end up like the people featured here. Still learning to be an ally/feminist/whateverIshouldcallmyself, but I’m sure if I stay in my lane and listen to feedback, I should get along swimmingly.

WeirwoodTreeHugger
WeirwoodTreeHugger
5 years ago

I think men sometimes don’t notice street harassment because they don’t need to be as hyper aware of their surroundings. Women are always aware out of necessity. So it’s not necessarily that he hears it but doesn’t think it’s a big deal, but that it occurs under his nose and he doesn’t hear it all because he isn’t paying attention.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

Did anyone notice that the quotes that Ruprect provided as evidence for his “disagreement trigger warning” came AFTER the comment with the warning?

I wanted to see where that rabbit hole ended up. In my experience getting them to actually go and find the real things they base their insulting hyperbole on is an opportunity to see who is getting ignored.

sevenofmine
sevenofmine
5 years ago

@ WWTH

That’s more what I meant, yes. Women are conditioned to notice this stuff.

There’s a video on Youtube about selective attention. A bunch of people are tossing a basketball around. A voice tells the viewer to keep track of how many times the ball gets passed. After a while the voice asks if you noticed the gorilla. About half the people who watch it don’t see the gorilla. So you watch the video again, this time looking for a gorilla and, lo and behold, a person in a gorilla suit walks into the shot, stops to thump their chest and then walks off the other side. They’re on screen for like 9-10 seconds; not just, say, peeking discreetly around a corner where they’d be easy to miss.

TL; DR people often don’t notice things they’re not expecting to see.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

and I read this site because I don’t want to end up like the people featured here.

This is a worthy motivation.

Kale
5 years ago

Rupret: women just shut up about harassment.
Me: harassment has caused a lot of suffering *detailed list*
Rupret: women just shut up about harassment. Asking men not to harass you is not empathetic to teh menz feelz
Me: augh go away asswipe
Rupret: WHERE IS YOUR EMPATHY?!

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
5 years ago

Hi @FrickleFrackle ! Welcome, have a welcome package! It’s filled with misandry. You can take one for your girlfriend too!

You should totally film/record your dramatic readings and upload them somewhere. That sounds like too much fun.

Dr. NicolaLuna
Dr. NicolaLuna
5 years ago

@Alan
Yeah I’m right where your friend is at emotionally at the moment.
Today 2 drunk guys kissed my hand while I was doing outreach work at a homeless centre. On Friday I got grabbed by a man. Last time I went to the pub, a man literally put his face in my cleavage and then when I shoved his face away I got in trouble because I shoved his face “too hard” which was me being “violent towards him” – fucking defending myself against sexual harassment!

I’ve lost count of the number of men who have grabbed my boobs. I’ve deleted a lot of social media because my inbox is like an explosion of dick pics.

And the first time I was harassed in the street I was 12 fucking years old. I was walking to my friends house alone after school and got followed by a pair of men who must have been around 40 or 50, yelling that I looked sexy in my uniform and that I should undo my top buttons and sit on their lap.

A part of me just wants to stay inside and play video games forever. I’m just tired.

kupo
kupo
5 years ago

You should totally film/record your dramatic readings and upload them somewhere. That sounds like too much fun.

Seconded! And welcome, @FrickleFrackle!

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
5 years ago

A part of me just wants to stay inside and play video games forever. I’m just tired

:c I understand. Hugs and sympathy if you want them. It’s so gross, and so unfair.

Cleverforagirl
Cleverforagirl
5 years ago

@sunny thank you, that actually made some sense. It’s still awful, but now I can file it away instead of going in circles trying to unpack it.

@to all who think outside is bullshit – we must unite (in our respective homes)! And do the things we enjoy, I guess? Didn’t really think this through…

FrickleFrackle
FrickleFrackle
5 years ago

for your girlfriend

Well, she’s not exactly my girlfriend. M doesn’t like it when people ship us, and I think that’s at least partly because both her mom and her 14 year old sister like to say we’re seeing each other when we don’t even hold hands.

Dalillama
5 years ago

@ Ruprect
I swear, you fucking brocialists will be the death of me yet. No war but the class war, asshole, do you know what that means? That means that when a comrade says they have a problem, you fucking help, not pick a fucking fight over it. There are oppressions that are not economic. People have been pointing this out to you the whole fucking thread, but you refuse to believe them because you haven’t personally experienced them. (Although you’ve perpetrated them). Either get a clue or GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE REVOLUTION, because you’re on the wrong fucking side and you’re holding us back.

@Sevenofnine

That’s more what I meant, yes. Women are conditioned to notice this stuff.

In my experience, it’s also just a lot more obvious when it’s directed at you, said experience consisting of having presented male most of my life. During that time, I looked androgynous enough that I got occasional catcalls, but rarely, and I only knew about street harassment from being told by female-coded friends. However, now that people routinely read me as female, there’s a million little things that I never would have noticed if they hadn’t been aimed directly at me (and of course the more obvious ones, like the guy who tried to grope me as I rode past him on my bike the other day).

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ Dr Nicola

That’s awful; FWIW you have my sympathies. But what you’re saying resonates so much it’s like you were there! Just shows how common an experience this is.

This bit especially cropped up almost word for word:

I got in trouble because I shoved his face “too hard” which was me being “violent towards him”

Basically three ‘solutions’ were discussed.

1. Ignore- but then that puts the onus on the woman to be stoic about something that is genuinely upsetting and frightening.

2. React verbally – but they’ll just get a kick out of that. Seeing they’ve caused a reaction is probably half the fun for them.

3. “Punch them in the throat” – or any sort of use of force. But the point you made expressly cropped up. The woman will get the blame for being some hysterical harpy just because the poor bloke “gave her a compliment”. All of a sudden the abuser is the victim!

It’s just so frustrating; but even your comment about feeling you have to stay inside is a common experience. Even if a woman ventures out these (expletive deleted) still dictate her actions. For certain reasons my friend gets a lot of nice clothes but as she says she “never gets to wear them because men will frighten her”

Grrrr! I’ll shut up now before I say something regrettable.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ seven, WWTH & dallillama

What you say about women having to live in a hyper vigilant state really interests me. If any of you can spare a few minutes I’d love to hear your thoughts on something.

Background – I’ve done a course that’s all about situational awareness. Part of that involves going around the city with the instructor. You’re constantly bombarded with questions. Some are just things like “what’s behind you right now?”; “how many people in that car that just went past?”; “where’s the nearest tree?” “what were those builders talking about?” etc. Others a bit weirder: “What do you think that man we’ve just passed does for a living?”. The trick, we get told, is to keep up a constant running commentary in our heads, to the point where it becomes automatic and subconscious. The instructor suggested it was like driving. When you’re doing lessons, you think about every gear change and break out into a sweat. After a while you get to your destination without even remembering the drive, but (presumably) you noticed every traffic light and reacted accordingly.

Anyway, my query is, is this something women would be ‘innately’ good at without all the training?

(I appreciate innately isn’t the right word as it’s presumably learned behaviour, but hopefully you get my drift)

Skiriki
Skiriki
5 years ago

booburry: Yup, this is also advice I’ve been offered. 🙂 Fortunately my cat’s breed trait is curiosity about water, and not shunning it either (Carisma has already done a shower run-thru, so clearly she’s not too afraid of it). I had to wash her paws once, and she didn’t put up too huge fight.

kupo
kupo
5 years ago

@Alan

Anyway, my query is, is this something women would be ‘innately’ good at without all the training?

(I appreciate innately isn’t the right word as it’s presumably learned behaviour, but hopefully you get my drift)

We might be conditioned to be more perceptive to our surroundings by the way we’re raised. I was always told to keep an eye out for strangers when walking alone. I was so convinced growing up that I would one day be kidnapped that I taught myself to untie knots really well and I still to this day will repeat the labels on trail markers I pass by in my head multiple times so if I get in trouble I can call someone and tell them the trail name, direction I’m going, last trail marker I passed, and about how far back it was. This is partially due to that upbringing of being told that people want to hurt me and I’m weak and I should do everything I can to mitigate that risk (except of course for strength training or martial arts because I’m a woman). But it’s useful because if I trip and sprain my ankle, I can call an ambulance or my husband and be found rather quickly.

guest
guest
5 years ago

@Alan Not exactly a direct answer to your question, but I’ve written before about what I call the ‘Sherlock Holmes effect’, where men get praised for adopting behaviours women are ‘innately’ expected to be able to do (and which go unnoticed when women do them, and which women are often penalised for not being good at). It’s been pointed out (by someone before me, but unfortunately I can’t remember where now) that the kind of hyperobservant deduction Sherlock Holmes is known for is pretty common in women, particularly women who have experienced a lot of abuse–their lives may depend on how carefully and correctly they observe a mood or an intention.

TheDreadVampy
TheDreadVampy
5 years ago

Regarding women not talking about harassment, I know I for one have a whole lot of trouble recognising things like that as an issue because honestly I don’t know anything different. It’s only in the last few years, when I’ve had friends I can loudly complain about minor irritations to, that I’ve realised this stuff isn’t minor and isn’t universal, and that men as a group tend to not experience normal (to me) daily stressors like being followed or being cornered in public places by solicitous guys or being yelled at in the street. I’m starting to realise how big of an effect that environment has had on me. Hell, I’m (probably) testifying in a rape trial in a few months about an incident which I’d never even considered might be construed as rape or even sexual assault, which I’d spent years feeling stupid and unfair for being upset about. The thing is, I’m not new to the world of feminist theory. I’ve always known sexism and gendered harassment are a thing. It can just be very hard to recognise when you have nothing to compare it to and if you mention it casually people tell you you’re making a fuss about nothing.

Nikki the Bluth Wannabe
Nikki the Bluth Wannabe
5 years ago

@Alan
I’m pretty late to this particular piece of the discussion, but I wanted to give my two cents re: your opinion that men don’t have the right to identify as feminists or feminist allies. My opinion is and has been for a while (I can’t identify exactly when or why I came to hold it) that feminism is the belief that men and women are of equal value and therefore deserve equal rights, that anyone who shares that belief has the right to self-identify and be identified by others as a feminist (as long as they sincerely hold that belief and make some sort of active effort, at the very least by listening to the experiences of women/other feminists), and that the more feminists in the world (and especially in high-status positions), the better. You definitely qualify as a feminist in my litmus test, and a very intelligent, supportive one.

@wwth
I occasionally have that problem of a missing edit button-it comes and goes.

@everyone
If any part of what I’ve said here strikes you wrong, please let me know so I can address it.

msexceptiontotherule
msexceptiontotherule
5 years ago

When I was a kid, the neighborhood we lived in had a guy driving around and exposing himself to girls, usually on the pretext of needing directions so they’d get close enough to his car to see what he *wasn’t* wearing from the waist down. He did this for YEARS, I’m guessing there were a lot of parents who were horrified when it happened to their daughters but with no license plate number and just a vague description of the scruffy, medium build, brown haired brown eyed guy wearing a tshirt with a surf logo and sitting on what looked like a towel and his beat up mid 1980’s white Toyota or Honda 4 door – the local police department could only take the report (if one was made by each individual and/or with the involvement of their parents/guardians). More than 20 years later that description of guy and his car have stuck because he didn’t approach me once, or twice but THREE DAMN TIMES – two times I was with a friend and once I was on my own. My own parents were horrified but for whatever rationale they had in their heads about harm level sufficient for such things, decided not to call the police because I wasn’t physically harmed, so when it happened the second time I didn’t bother telling them and neither did the friend I was with tell her parents. The third time the friend’s mother (different friend from 2nd time) was the one insisting on calling the police and made sure that she (friend) and I were given the opportunity to provide the information in her house where we would feel comfortable and safe talking to the police. I remember feeling so relieved that an adult hadn’t simply assumed that since nobody was touched or kidnapped, no need to call the cops – but at the same time it made me sad about my parents reaction when I told them before.

As an adult I’ve been followed, groped, grabbed and even had some douchecanoe fondling HIMSELF as he followed me around while I was grocery shopping. Because a shotgun doesn’t fit in my purse, I make do with pepper spray and a taser. I learned that when walking alone, high heels are an issue because without eyes in the back of your head, hearing is kind of important and you can’t keep turning around to see if anyone is behind you if you’re hoping to reach your vehicle or a safe place with lots of people as fast as possible. My luck I’d be like someone focusing on their cell phone screen so much they walk into traffic. I can’t imagine how much more concerned for their safety a person whose hearing is impaired and without the option of being able to wear other shoes and not using distracting devices like headphones which is possible for me as a hearing person.

Oh, and I’ve found that yelling “FIRE” is much better for getting peoples’ attention than “HELP”.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
5 years ago

Oh, and I’ve found that yelling “FIRE” is much better for getting peoples’ attention than “HELP”.

Sounds cynical but you know why I think this is? People respond to “Fire!” because it means something that they can watch and get excitement from but the emergency services have to actually deal with it. “Help!” is a request for them to get involved, which they don’t want to do for whatever reason – often fear for their own safety.

My mum and I have responded to a “Help!” cry in the past, which came from a neighbour across the road who was panicking because her mother had suddenly collapsed and she didn’t know first aid. I heard it through my open window (the girl was shouting into the street), told my mother and we went to see what was happening. Fortunately my mum worked at a hospital and knew what to do, and she helped out while I talked to the distressed daughter as we waited for the ambulance.

(Not meaning to brag, just to tell an anecdote. 🙂 )

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

Re: help v fire

I think it’s been mentioned before that the most effective way of appealing for assistance if other people are around is to single out a specific person (“You there in the blue top with the baseball cap, please help me”). Once one person assists others will usually join in.

(cf all the stuff on ‘bystander effect’)

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ kupo & guest

I’ve rambled on incessantly before about that “trust your instincts” thing (and the corollary of trying not to let the social expectations of ‘not making a scene’ over-rule them “Don’t due of politeness”). I’ll stick in my usual recommendation for Gavin DeBecker’s ‘Gift of Fear’. It’s very interesting though to hear more about the vigilance thing.

@ Nikki

Aww, thanks; that means a lot.

Kat
Kat
5 years ago

@dalillama

Either get a clue or GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE REVOLUTION, because you’re on the wrong fucking side and you’re holding us back.

Thank you very much for saying that!

Kat
Kat
5 years ago

@Alan Robertshaw
Due to childhood abuse, I’ve always, always been hypervigilant and aware that at any moment the stuff could hit the fan.

I mentioned this to a therapist once, and she said, “What could go wrong right now?”

Me: “The ceiling could fall in, the lamp could explode, there could be a fire in the hall, I could have a heart attack. . . .”

So when 9/11 happened, I wasn’t shocked. I wasn’t even surprised. I’d been ready for it since the Baader-Meinhoff gang came to my attention in 1970. I knew that the USA wasn’t–couldn’t be–immune from terrorism. I was scared. But not in the least surprised.

When I encounter a harasser, I do an immediate intuitive check: Is this person dangerous? And by dangerous, I mean, Will this person hit me? If so, how hard? Will this person kill me? I base my responses on that. If I sense that the person is not absolutely determined to harm me, I try to use my psychic jiu-jitsu to finesse the situation. In one situation, I thought that the other person might be absolutely determined to harm me. I made up my mind that if I couldn’t run, I wouldn’t go down without a fight. I might be dead but he would not come away unharmed. As it turned out, my psychic jiu-jitsu won the day.

Kat
Kat
5 years ago

@FrickleFrackle

I EMERGE FROM THE LURKVOID TO COMMENT

Ha, ha! I’m seeing a swamp creature. He’s dripping wet. Oh, he’s got a friend!

Anyway, welcome to both of you!

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ kat

Wow, my admiration meter has just blown it’s top!

I might be dead but he would not come away unharmed

.

In self defence circles we call that “wolverine syndrome” (A bear can obviously best a wolverine but he’ll probably lose a foot in the process so he doesn’t risk it)

In the UK military it’s called “The Moscow Criterion” (same basic idea)

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

I don’t even know how I’m able to tell when a man I pass by is going to harass me, but I do. I have since I was a teenager. It only took a couple of years of street harassment to be able to expertly – but subconsciously – analyze a man’s body language and figure out he’s going to be a creeper.

This is part of why I don’t fall for “psychics.” Being able to read people is a nice skill to have, but there’s nothing magical about it.