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antifeminism entitled babies memes

Men Oppressed by Sleeves: A Memeday Special Report

sleeves
Dress code requires everyone to wear skirts, dude! Go home and change.

Never underestimate the ability of Men’s Rights Activists to get worked up over the most ridiculous nonsense.

I found the meme above on the Men’s Rights Australia Facebook page, accompanied by this explanation:

Women are allowed to wear whatever they like to work, including sleeveless tops, short skirts, and even thongs. Yet if a man were to wear sleeveless tops, shorts, or thongs you can be sure he’d be sent home from work or even fired. In summer men have to suffer in the heat wearing trousers, long sleeve shirts, and tie. Feminists claim they also care about inequalities facing men so why aren’t they fighting against this? -ms

YEAH FEMINISTS WHY AREN’T YOU FIGHTING AGAINST THIS TERRIBLE INJUSTICE, WOMEN NEVER HAVE TO WEAR ANYTHING UNCOMFORTABLE OR AWKWARD AT WORK 0h wait

Note: I should point out that the “thongs” being referenced aren’t the ones that ride up your butt, but rather are the ones you wear on your feet and that are also called flip flops, at least here in the US.

BONUS MEME: This isn’t a Men’s Rights meme, obviously, but it literally made me laugh out loud.

communism

Apparently the best way to fight communism is to do nothing while the oceans rise. I guess the Communists have their secret bases on the Marshall Islands?

I’m reminded of this legendary toilet paper ad.

2439695420_ce0033c184_o

A spectre is haunting the bathroom — the spectre of really really scratchy toilet paper.

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Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ scildfreja

To me, the whole point about gifts is that you pick them yourself. If it just boils down to giving someone something they say they want then it’s just about economics.

When you give, or receive, a present that is just so you; it’s like a sign that the giver knows you, or appreciates what you like or at least has gone to the effort of figuring out what you might like. It’s a wonderful demonstration that somebody cares enough about you as a person with all your likes, interests and quirks.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

When you give, or receive, a present that is just so you; it’s like a sign that the giver knows you, or appreciates what you like or at least has gone to the effort of figuring out what you might like. It’s a wonderful demonstration that somebody cares enough about you as a person with all your likes, interests and quirks.

But what about when you give someone a present and you thought it would be something they would really appreciate, but it turns out that you missed the mark wide? That communicates just as clearly that you don’t actually know that person at all and you have no clue about their likes, interests and quirks.

This message can be conveyed by accident really easily, and it requires a shitload of emotional labor to analyze another person so closely that multiple gifts can be given over time that all hit the mark exactly. So I am not in any way against just asking what someone wants and giving it to them. I know this goes against the Miss Manners-approved gift-giving schema, but maybe I don’t have the time and emotional energy to make that kind of analysis year after year for 30 people.

Ruprect
Ruprect
5 years ago

Re: warning – I am very sorry. If it means anything at all, it was a genuine (but misguided) attempt to make it easier for people to avoid content they might find upsetting.

@alan
“Male privilege will always provide a weapon for men to use against women; regardless of any other socio-economic factors at play.”

It’s a biological rather than social problem?

@Scildfreja
“Are you telling us that your solution is to forbid all people with social power from holding economic power over those that have less social power?”

Yes. I think that a income guarantee, job guarantees, shared ownership of means of production etc. etc. would go a long way to solving problems of harassment.

@kupo
“The problem with this is that some outside person has to be the judge of whether a complaint is legitimate.”
Not really – if I’m working with Bob and he uses language I find offensive, I can tell him. Hopefully he will change his behavior. If not I’ll go and work with someone else. Why can’t the workplace be more like our social life?

“women also grow old and yet somehow manage not to sexually harass their colleagues ”
Is it possible for women to sexually harass men?

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
5 years ago

Re: warning – I am very sorry. If it means anything at all, it was a genuine (but misguided) attempt to make it easier for people to avoid content they might find upsetting.

You actually think that there’s an equivalence between content that might trigger a rape or trauma survivor (therefore suggesting the content have a trigger warning) and content that has disagreement? Trigger warnings aren’t to protect precious fee-fees from dissenting opinion, they’re to provide compassion to trauma survivors.

You really do think that the dreaded “SJWs” are on a crusade against anything they disagree with and not actually trying to accomplish positive change, huh?

Yes. I think that a income guarantee, job guarantees, shared ownership of means of production etc. etc. would go a long way to solving problems of harassment.

So, anarcho-communism, then? No, that wouldn’t have any guarantees. Sounds very much like a Dictatorship of the Proletariat thing to me.

So when’s the revolution? And can we do anything in the meantime, or shall we wait for the menfolk to do it? I guess there’s needlepoint, and the washing up needs doing while we wait for you to fix everything.

(Yes, I’m mocking you. Your ‘solution’ is a daydream, and you’re getting in the way of people who are actually working on this in the here-and-now. Step aside, Poindexter, there’s actual work to do.)

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

I see we’ve reached the JAQing off portion of the troll life cycle.

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
5 years ago

I think he’s gonna pupate soon!

Ruprect
Ruprect
5 years ago

@Scildfreja
“You really do think that the dreaded “SJWs” are on a crusade against anything they disagree with”

Scildfreja, meet kupo –

Kupo – “We will not agree that you don’t have to accept our solutions.”

“and not actually trying to accomplish positive change, huh?”
I’m sure that they think they are going to achieve positive change, but it’s an open question as to whether they actually will.

“So, anarcho-communism, then? No, that wouldn’t have any guarantees. Sounds very much like a Dictatorship of the Proletariat thing to me.”

Not at all – just common or garden social democracy. The fact that you think a basic income guarantee, or a job guarantee are pure fantasy speaks volumes about how far the modern left has been distracted by trifles, and has simply accepted the (financiers) liberal narrative.
The paucity of ambition is breathtaking. At the risk of psychologising a movement, it seems like a form of learned helplessness.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
5 years ago

I’m upgrading Ruprect in my mind from “clueless half-wit” to “disingenuous troll.”

And although I don’t think he’s eloli, he’s showing exactly the same level of refusal-to-listen when women tell their side of the story and opinions on what can be done about it.

Sooooo many problems could be fixed much faster if people like Ruprect and eloli would just LISTEN TO WOMEN WHEN THEY TALK.

IT’S NOT HARD. WHY DUDES WHY.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Sooooo many problems could be fixed much faster if people like Ruprect and eloli would just LISTEN TO WOMEN WHEN THEY TALK.

No, that’s not possible. The problems that misogyny causes women are clearly just trifles. They aren’t important like Ruprect’s problems are. I mean, someone told him he did a good job once. :O I think we can all agree he’s one who has won the oppression Olympics and we ladies with our feeble lady brains and silly lady problems can just pack it up and go home.

the modern left has been distracted by trifles, and has simply accepted the (financiers) liberal narrative.

Is this an anti-Semitic dogwhistle?

Ruprect
Ruprect
5 years ago

lol – I don’t know if weirwoodtreehugger is being serious, but that is, in a nutshell, *exactly* what is wrong with identity politics.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

lol – I don’t know if weirwoodtreehugger is being serious, but that is, in a nutshell, *exactly* what is wrong with identity politics.

Because being “male” is not an identity, folks. It’s just the default. Like being white and cis are not identities. White, male, and cis politics are not identity politics, but just politics. Identity politics are silly and frivolous, but white male cis politics are real politics.

Just like Ruprect’s problems are the only real problems in the world. He had a crappy job once, y’all! And his supervisor mistook him for someone who cares about doing a good job! That’s a serious-business problem that we need a revolution to solve! But women being frozen out of economic self-sufficiency by misogyny is fluffy nonsense. Yep.

Ruprect
Ruprect
5 years ago

I will happily listen to women when they talk about their personal experience – I just think that it’s quite extraordinary that not accepting policy proposals made by women (or in this case, not agreeing enthusiastically enough) is automatically considered a form of misogyny.

Kale
5 years ago

“identity politics”
you mean people who are oppressed based on things like gender asking for equality under the law? o yea, how terrible for you.

Could it be any more obvious that this ass is an MRA troll? Come on, classic antisemetic phraseology, paranoia about “The Left”, insulting rape victims when he isnt ignoring them. bruh, you arent fooling anyone. If you need attention, go make friends, & yea that does require you being nice to people. but hey, lotsa racist sexists out there will put up w you. Can someone maybe email David to take out the trash? Im on break at work and cant be bothered.

Kat
Kat
5 years ago

The paucity of ambition is breathtaking. At the risk of psychologising a movement, it seems like a form of learned helplessness.

Ruprect is describing himself and his lack of ambition. Can’t be bothered to learn about the sexual harassment policy at his job because it’s all so byzantine & such. Certainly can’t take said policy seriously! Why can’t I just give the object of my boner a “compliment”? Would it be so hard for her to just sit there and take it?!

I’m gonna repeat myself here for the third time because Ruprect fails to address this issue:

A true revolutionary listens to what the people he (gendered pronoun used deliberately) would like to lead want. He helps them achieve that goal.

What he doesn’t do? Ever? Tell them that their goal is no good, that they can’t have what they want until the entire system is revamped. And even then, not so much. You’ll have to leave your job if you don’t like how you’re treated. And oh, by the way, you people I’m “leading”–you’re looking hot, hot, hot today!

Revolutionary motto from a revolutionary button that I saw one time: If You’re Dissing [Disrespecting] the Women, You’re Not Fighting the Power!

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
5 years ago

Rape victims and other people suffering PTSD.

I usually wonder why people hate soldiers and rape/other crime victims so much when they mock trigger warnings, but it’s not just for them either. I knew a woman who’d seen a horrific fireworks accident and Independence Day was basically nightmarish for her–fireworks were her “trigger,” so to speak.

That said, I kinda like “content warnings” better, as they sound more empowering, and doesn’t put a person in the position of being an object (a gun).

I mean, we already put content warnings on TV and movies and video games, it’s not like it’s really hurting anyone. I don’t know why people whine about trigger/content warnings so much.

Kale
5 years ago

PS you know the only reason women talk to
asshats like you is because we hope we can convince you to stop treating us like shit. Something we shouldnt havta beg for

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
5 years ago

Ruprect, just curious – do you think racism exists? Or is it just a trifling, essentially illusory, offshoot of the only real axis of oppression which is the economic axis?

I think the word you may be missing is orthogonal. Maybe you could give a little thought to the notion that misogyny, racism and economic oppression operate along axes that are orthogonal to one another.

Kat
Kat
5 years ago

I’m reading some very sad narratives. My heart goes out to you.

I’m also reading some amazing, well-thought-out, very nicely stated, on-target takedowns of a troll! Thanks for the education, Mammotheers!

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

lol – I don’t know if weirwoodtreehugger is being serious, but that is, in a nutshell, *exactly* what is wrong with identity politics.

What is the problem? The women, POC and LGBT people won’t sit down, shut up and let cishet white men run left/liberal politics like we’re supposed to?

It must be very hard for you to hear that not everything is about you all the time. I’m so, so sorry we don’t know our place.

Poor baby.

comment image

Kale
5 years ago

except that he already let it slip that hes actually alt right. who knows maybe even the butthurt mememaker lol

kupo
kupo
5 years ago

@Scildfreja
“You really do think that the dreaded “SJWs” are on a crusade against anything they disagree with”

Scildfreja, meet kupo –

Kupo – “We will not agree that you don’t have to accept our solutions.”

Yep, I knew you would try and twist that. What I’m saying is that you are coming in here and demanding that we agree that you’re allowed to have this opinion. It’s not enough for you to simply have your opinion; we have to do the emotional labor for you and make you feel better about having it by agreeing with you that you’re allowed to have it. And if we won’t do that for you, we’re on some kind of crusade against you. Nice.

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
5 years ago

We’re so abrasive.

Or are we strident this time? I haven’t heard that one for a while.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
5 years ago

I just think that it’s quite extraordinary that not accepting policy proposals made by women (or in this case, not agreeing enthusiastically enough) is automatically considered a form of misogyny.

a) nobody actually said anything of the sort. Nice try. b) It’s not even that you’re “not accepting policy proposals.” It’s that when any woman here tells you why they think your ideas wouldn’t work because this is how things are according to their experience and knowledge, you just repeat yourself like nothing was said at all.

You’re not even trying to listen, let alone “accept policy proposals.” THAT’S the problem here, sunshine.

LindsayIrene
5 years ago

Huh. Ruprect seems to think that male privilege is biological in origin. And then this:

Is it possible for women to sexually harass men?

comment image

kupo
kupo
5 years ago

@LindsayIrene
Men always enjoy sexual attention from women, didn’t you know?

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
5 years ago

comment image

http://i.imgur.com/pSCmZ19.gif

We’ve heard your opinion a bajillion times from various internet-faces, Ruprect. Your wit is ignorance, your confidence is a lack of curiousity, and your solutions don’t solve anything. Go away.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

Notwithstanding that it’s no doubt possible for women to sexually harass men it’s not equivalent to m-f harassment.

A minor point is that it’s probably (for all sorts of reasons) a relatively unusual occurance, whereas for women it’s just part of their everyday experience.

But, more importantly in my view, it’s the context. A man dismissing or rejecting a female harasser doesn’t have to worry about the consequences. I don’t want negate any unpleasantness that may result, but that’s going to be the height of it, unpleasantness. The man doesn’t have to fear about being assaulted, raped or murdered.

How many times on this blog alone has there been a post about that happening to a woman who had the audacity to say ‘no’ or stand up for herself?

Outside of fiction can anyone think of an example the other way round? “Bunny boiler” has entered common parlance, but the fact that it’s treated as a joke shows how unreal that threat is. There doesn’t need to be a fictional equivalent in relation to men because there are too many real world examples.

kale
kale
5 years ago

Thank you David!

Guys, sorry lets flip that and say Ladies, the thing is: ABUSERS CANT BE CONVINCED NOT TO ABUSE BY HEARING HOW BAD ABUSE IS BECAUSE THEY LIKE ABUSE.

& bigots are just abusers.

kupo
kupo
5 years ago

@Alan
That makes a lot of sense and actually explains Ruprect’s position–the exception is one where the woman has a position of power over the man, such as where she’s his boss. Since Ruprect doesn’t believe there are any other systems of oppression other than employer over employee, he believes this is the only scenario where sexual harassment can actually happen.

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
5 years ago

comment image

Thank you David!

I don’t know what a ‘bunny boiler’ is.

EDIT: ohhhhhh.

EDIT EDIT: That’s a great point Kale! There’s probably more than a little selective hearing going on. Gotta protect those abusin’ privileges!

LindsayIrene
5 years ago

Something interesting about the sexual harassment of men at work*:

Men who deviated from “traditional” stereotypes of masculinity, whether by belonging to a sexual minority or who were actively involved in feminist causes were far more likely to experience some form or harassment. These study results also demonstrate that backlash was particularly common against heterosexual men who challenge traditional gender roles.

Source

*Not related to Men At Work

comment image

OoglyBoggles
OoglyBoggles
5 years ago

I will happily listen to women when they talk about their personal experience – I just think that it’s quite extraordinary that not accepting policy proposals made by women (or in this case, not agreeing enthusiastically enough) is automatically considered a form of misogyny.

“There are people outright telling me that my statements, premises and proposals are fundamentally flawed, and explain in painstaking detail why. Should I reconsider my points? Nah I’ll just rephrase my words, victim blame and clamor for revolution ad nausea.”

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Alan,
I don’t know if you’re still following the thread, but I saw this (off topic) picture of Doris Day that I thought you might enjoy.

http://dlisted.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/hbdorisday2016-500×667.jpg

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

Oh WWTH!

That’s wonderful. Thank you!!!!!!

(I’m making a conscious effort to dial down the rhetoric on the animal thing and all other topics, but that’s so perfect)

🙂

proudfootz
proudfootz
5 years ago

Very late to the party, and only on page seven of ten, but thought I might chime in on the ‘men identifying as feminists’ issue.

I am a man who identifies as feminist, but I am not interested in arguing with women who identify as feminists because I realize the experience of women in this culture is going to be very different than my own, and therefore their insights are likely to be better informed than my own. It’s better I listen to people who are in a position to educate me and try to learn ways to recognize patterns of thought and behaviors that I exhibit that are not reflective of my conscious choice to become an ally and partner to others.

Even if I don’t go about my day feeling like I am privileged a few moments of reflection easily prove that I am. The point is not to feel guilty but to improve my words and actions because they affect other people – sometimes in ways I don’t imagine.

This also applies to my other ‘identities’ like race, gender preference, and class (and probably a ton of other things!).

Whatever consciousness I have about feminism may have its foundation in my sister buying a subscription to MS. Magazine for my mother when I was younger. Being a voracious reader at that time in my life I was at least made aware that sexism was a thing.

tl;dr I need feminism because the alternative is shit.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ proudfootz

I wish I’d written your third paragraph. That encapsulates my thoughts exactly.

proudfootz
proudfootz
5 years ago

I should hasten to add that I don’t go around introducing myself as a feminist – that would be awkward!

One of the nicest compliments I ever received was that a woman with whom I had a long term relationship called me a feminist.

While I am flattered that this brilliant woman thought so highly of me, I do realize I have miles to go yet.

brooked
brooked
5 years ago

It takes all sorts, and the best way to solve it is to make sure that each individual has the power not to be in a situation that bothers them.

Ah, libertarians, people who claim to have the solution for all problems yet have never solved a single problem.

brooked
brooked
5 years ago

How you deal with other people is entirely your choice. Personally, I think it’s important to care about what other people think because without empathy, the world is a bit shitty.

I do enjoy how Ruprect thinks empathy is us caring about what he thinks.

dlouwe
dlouwe
5 years ago

It takes all sorts, and the best way to solve it is to make sure that each individual has the power not to be in a situation that bothers them.

The great thing about this – and the general line of thinking that Ruprect seems to be peddling – is that it doesn’t really acknowledge that harassing behavior is a problem, but rather it’s a problem that people feel harassed. So that way we can avoid asking the people actually causing the problem to modify their behavior, because it’s not actually a problem, and instead require victims be responsible for not getting harassed.

Not to mention that – even if this wasn’t completely asinine- what the fuck are we supposed to do in the meantime? Societal change doesn’t happen overnight. Harassment is happening now. Mumble mumble something something, I guess?

Catalpa
Catalpa
5 years ago

Question- In Ruprect’s ideal word where no one has economic power over the other, wouldn’t that mean that harassers and assholes are ALSO able to act as they like and harass whomever they want without repurcussion?

I suppose Ruprect might argue that, well, yes, technically, but since they don’t have any economic power over their victims, that the freely allowed harassment won’t be harmful at all! Because an environment where people don’t hold significant real-world power but also never face any meaningful consequences for their actions has NEVER contributed to an environment where, say, a woman is subjected to a never-ending torrent of virulent harrassment and abuse.

brooked
brooked
5 years ago

Ruprect seems believes that unfettered freedom of association, the ability to “peace out” when faced with any discrimination in any situation, will save assholes from having to modify their behavior in any meaningful way. That’s unrealistically simplistic even for a libertarian which is really saying something.

Instead of trying to enforce ever-changing, byzantine rules, determined no-man knows how, with a fist of iron, I’d rather deal with people on an individual basis, trying to have consideration for other people’s feelings, but in the knowledge that neither party will be forced by circumstance to endure the other if we find them intolerable.

On a personal note, I’m glad that Ruprect was banned because lately my patience with white guy progressive libertarians has dwindled to nothing. I was close to type-vomiting out a fury filled screed, but now I can go to bed no longer thinking of Ruprect trying to free men from the burden of being judged for their sexism.

msexceptiontotherule
msexceptiontotherule
5 years ago

So we’re not a hive-mind that feels one way and thinks the same thing about every possible issue/subject/experience there has ever been and ever will be?

Well that certainly complicates matters. Guess I’ll have to go ask the s/o to tell me what to think, how to feel, and what to do…

(falls to floor laughing)
S/o says: “That’s not the relationship dynamic I signed on for, you’re….kidding….right?”

Poor dear.

katz
5 years ago

The reason it’s unreasonable for you to “not accept women’s policy proposals,” Ruprect, is that you are not on the board of directors of the universe. You’re intrinsically casting yourself as the person who decides what course of action we take and women as the people who can only make proposals and have to rely on getting your approval.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

Crap. I got here too late to play with Ruprect. Oh well.

Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut

Women: “Hey, we have some ideas about how men can stop harassing women!”

Ruprect: “Well, I reject them. They don’t make any sense to me, and you should accept MY proposal instead, where you just give up everything and get out and stop talking about harassment.”

Women: “Uh…but you’ve never experienced the same harassment as us, so you don’t have a nuanced understanding of what it’s like, and thus your idea doesn’t make any sense, because we can’t just give everything up and get out. It’s far more complicated than that!”

Ruprect: “Are you accusing me of misogyny for simply dismissing your ideas out of hand, women?! How dare you!”

Shaenon
5 years ago

Could it be any more obvious that this ass is an MRA troll? Come on, classic antisemetic phraseology, paranoia about “The Left”, insulting rape victims when he isnt ignoring them. bruh, you arent fooling anyone.

I knew it when he started moaning about how men are oppressed by all the praise and respect they receive for their accomplishments. Red Pill dudes call it “the burden of performance” and are very upset about it.

sevenofmine
sevenofmine
5 years ago

Ruprect is one of those guys who thinks that “rational” is simply a thing you inherently either are or aren’t as opposed to the conscious process it actually is. Argumentation to him is just riffing on your preconceptions. He is rational so everything he thinks is rational, of necessity.

If you don’t agree with him, it must be because you literally didn’t understand his words. So he just rephrases his preconceptions over and over. He knows his preconceptions are an accurate reflection of the real world. He’s never actually verified any of it, except by comparing notes with others who affirm him (“I spoke to a woman and she said…”), but he is rational, therefore his preconceptions must match reality.

He doesn’t need to engage with what anyone else says if it doesn’t match his preconceptions. If it was in any way reasonable, it would match.

I strongly suspect this is why anti-feminist Youtube videos are always a million hours long. They’re not actually constructing an argument, they’re just stream of consciousness riffing on their presumptions. So they just talk until they can’t think of anything more to say.

cleverforagirl
cleverforagirl
5 years ago

Wait? Red pillers are upset about being judged based on their actions? I…um…I don’t suppose there is a way to make that make sense? I’m getting a divide by zero error here. Maybe some big manly STEMLogik dude can explain it to me, like I’m five? *doe eyes*

(I’m the woman that would get told I had nice hair after fixing tech problems, so being praised based on my accomplishments would be really FUCKING fantastic. Side note: I work at home now, people suck and outside is bullshit.)

–Clever