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Anime Nazis turn on Christina Hoff Sommers after she stands up for assaulted reporter

Based mom no more?
Based mom no more?

You may recall how Christina Hoff Sommers, right-wing think tanker and longtime pseudofeminist, was transformed into the idolized “Based Mom” after she cannily jumped aboard the #GamerGate train and started going to events with noted ethical journalist Milo Yiannopoulos?

Now GamerGaters and Anime Nazis and other elements of the Internet’s Trump-loving sh*tlord army are turning on the woman they thought was one of the cool girls.

Sommers’ crime?

She signed a petition in support of Michelle Fields, the former Breitbarter who lost her job after being manhandled by Donald Trump’s campaign manager Corey Lewandowski at a Trump event.  

Sommers’ fans — well, ex-fans, really — aren’t taking it well.

Mike Cernovich ‏@Cernovich Never imaged @CHSommers would play the damsel in distress. Uses status as a woman to attack #Trump. Unreal.

Seneca the Shitlord ‏@Crashing00 .@Cernovich What a goddamn shame. @CHSommers was one of the most reasonable voices against this kind of nonsense. Based Mom, no!

alis

David Field ‏@DavidCField @LeahR77 Wait, @CHSommers??? NO BASED MOM!!!! PLS SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!

 

Those were some of the more polite reactions.

Others were a bit more, er, blunt.

DJT_GOP2.0 ‏@MIRightEye .@Cernovich @delcaste @CHSommers When you unleash a pack of she-wolves to bring down Trump, they forfeit the right to be considered ladies.

sue

JakeBradford ‏@jake_bradford_1 Here are some @DLoesch = FAKE FRAUD SJW @KatiePavlich = FAKE FRAUD SJW @CHSommers= FAKE FRAUD SJW Anything to "get Trump" right witches?

Della Gates ‏@DellaGates_1237 @CHSommers u crazy bitch. "He (CL) "roughed her (MF) up"??? UNF*CKING BELIEVABLE. #16Bitches

fauXnetiX ‏@fauXnetiX @stigmata_laudis @CHSommers Amazing after all her talk about men being mistreated she pulls something like this. Then again, she's a jew.

Coby Gaston ‏@rhc_gop @CHSommers I know you apparatchiks hate goyim Trump . You are vile woman . 😬

Ambika Padmalochana ‏@AmbikaPadmaloch @rothbarbarian @Cernovich @AEI How much of @CHSommers's income comes from Israel (that foreign country whose butt Trump doesn't kiss)?

The-VolleyballGod ‏@DaVolleyballGod @Cernovich @jenilynn1001 @CHSommers Devil is here those of us who r aware see Lucifer working to stop Trump, Trump stops Satans plan for USA

But not everyone has deserted this Jewish agent of Lucifer. Sommers has managed to hold on to the endorsement of at least one influential Tweeter.

Space Fire Kittens ‏@SpaceFireKitten @Cernovich @CHSommers I still love base mom even if she does not like trump.

It’s almost touching.

 

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sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
4 years ago

Thanks for the well wishes, all. It’s not a huge problem, just an irritating rash around my lower lip. I’ve seen the doctor, he said it was most likely just a form of herpes that popped up due to stress. Apparently I’ve had the herps floating around in my system ever since I had chickenpox and it can morph into other strains while in your body, so yeah. He’s prescribed a weeks worth of pills that he said should knock it out of the park, but that I should keep an eye on my stress/tiredness levels to avoid it flaring up again.

mrex
mrex
4 years ago

@K ” Oh, come on, you know feMRAs only do it because they have a bad case of Stockholm syndrome. They do it because they want male attention – from abusive assholes.”

It’s more likely that women become FeMRAs after seeing this kind of attitude from Feminists. There’s a great lie in FeMRA circles that MRAS are open minded and encourage discourse. Ha! These fake twitter face heel turns on the part of “teh men’s rights” are another reminder that the only loyalty these guys show is towards misogyny. I could hope that FeMRAs view this as a wake up call, but I’m not holding my breath.

Remember, MRAs have many good debate points. They wouldn’t be half as dangerous if they couldn’t wrap their toxic misogyny up inside of legitimate issues; such as the emotional abuse of men, or male circumcision. Telling women that care about these issues, (or for that matter women that vote for Bernie Sanders), that they are only doing so in order to gain male attention, is a form of toxic misogyny *all in itself*.

NickNameNick
NickNameNick
4 years ago

@EJ

This has evidently perplexed her #GG followers who only became aware of her when she tried to recruit them as culture-war footsoldiers, and lack the wider perspective on her activities.

Yep, same goes for Milo Yiannopoulos and (since he’s appeared in the post) Mike Cernovich – both who were incredibly dismissive of videogames and those who played them…until GG became a bastion for anti-feminist right-wingers.

mrex
mrex
4 years ago

Thanks for the well wishes, all. It’s not a huge problem, just an irritating rash around my lower lip. I’ve seen the doctor, he said it was most likely just a form of herpes that popped up due to stress. Apparently I’ve had the herps floating around in my system ever since I had chickenpox”

Shingles? Ouch. I know people who have had that, and I had to get tested to make sure I was immune, because I was pregnant and apparently you can catch chicken pox from Shingles. They said that the rash burned like hell.

littleknown
littleknown
4 years ago

“Using an experimental technology to make a woman become sexually addicted to you…”

Well, come on! Men don’t have copulins at their disposal — what else are they supposed to do? /s

On a related note, I think someone mentioned in the Paul Elam retirement thread how MGTOW videos are even more difficult to make it through than MRA videos. S*ndman videos are the embodiment of this to me. I tried to watch the “Vagina Monsters” video that’s linked in the above WHTM post, and I think I made it about a minute before I had to turn it off, lest I start screaming, “Why are you ending every single sentence that same way?!?” and try to gouge out my eardrums.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
4 years ago

@mrex

I don’t think it’s shingles since I’ve never had spots/rashes that appeared in a line, which is a key characteristic of that disease. I HAVE had acne/blotchy face ever since chickenpox though (I had pristine skin before then) which might have something to do with the pox/herpes virus in some way – if I go solely by timing. If it is, I guess it might go down with the pills as well, who knows.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
4 years ago

@NickNameNick:
Your point is a good one. It’s terrifying how little integrity some people have.

Given that Milo Yiannopoulos is in fact the pseudonym under which a collective of monkeys publish the results of their typewriter-banging, I’m hardly surprised that he’s capable of pirouetting his attitudes.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
4 years ago

Telling women that care about these issues, (or for that matter women that vote for Bernie Sanders), that they are only doing so in order to gain male attention, is a form of toxic misogyny *all in itself*.

Thanks for expressing what I’ve been feeling but unable to articulate.

I also don’t think, at all, that FeMRAs get into the gig because they’re afraid of MRAs and are using protective camouflage, which is another idea I’ve seen bounced around here on multiple occasions. I have no doubt that when a FeMRA is contemplating leaving the movement, she’s going to take into consideration the way she’s seen other women treated as she’s mulling over her options. That’s really different from saying that she was taking that into consideration when getting into the scene in the first place, which I don’t think is actually a thing that happens amongst the women around AVFM. If JB were afraid of MRAs and trying not to run afoul of their wrath, the easiest way to do that would have been for her to not actually get involved with them in the first place, not to snuggle up to them and pretend to be one of them, and make sure all of them knew what she looked like. I just don’t see how this explanation makes actual real-world sense.

OoglyBoggles
OoglyBoggles
4 years ago

On of their champions is literally 40 people with no identify and pay.

Ethics in ghostwriting indeed.

mockingbird
mockingbird
4 years ago

@sunnysombrera – I had shingles right after giving birth to my 3rd kiddo (no sleep + nursing problems + work stress + people not paying their frikkin’ rent in the place we were renting out b/c we were upsidedown in it = quite physically and emotionally stressed) and it wasn’t in a straight line. It was more of an awful bloom that started under my armpit and then encircled my trunk.

Either way, whatever you have going on sucks!

Good luck with it.

Remember not to scratch.

Holytape
4 years ago

I read the first few and thought, “I got the misogyny but where is the random anti-semitic comment.” It’s like having toast without the butter.
Luckily a brave twit reminded us that “Then again, she is a jew.” World restored. Thanks brave internet crusader. Thanks.

Tizio
Tizio
4 years ago

I love how you all are pacifically and rationally talking about David’s article and the various issues with the manusphere while Mark’s mantrum on page 2 was completely ignored.

OoglyBoggles
OoglyBoggles
4 years ago

@Tizio
Who? Oh that guy didn’t even notice him.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
4 years ago

@Tizio

His comment must have only just made it past moderation after several more comments were published beneath his, which tends to be how the system works. It’s too far back to bother with now, and he’s only spewing ridiculous strawmen that we’ve combated a thousand times before.

Meh I say. Meeeehhhhhhhh.

LindsayIrene
4 years ago

I went back and looked at Mark’s comment and now want to be compensated for the seconds of my life I spent on that cliche-fest.

http://i.imgur.com/MpI5tHI.gif

calmdown
calmdown
4 years ago

@ Everyone

Sorry for posting such a creepy link. Maybe I should have put a TW. I’ll be more careful next time. 🙁

@Freemage

Youtube appears to have a similar algorithm. If I watch a feminist video, I’ll get a bunch of “why Feminist are total [insert slur here]” suggestions. I got so frustrated. I ended up finding an app that blocks specific YT channels in order to get rid of all the Sargon/Amazing Atheist type MRA garbage from my suggestions. It’s just called “Video Blocker”, and if you have Chrome I highly recommend it. To bad it doesn’t work on the entire internet.

In a different thread David had mention that there should not be any PUA type ads on the site so I just thought to point it out in case something can be done? I’m new to the site so I wasn’t sure if there was a procedure (other than just complaining about it like I did).

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

Re: the ads thing

If PUA ads appear on sites where there’s no target audience to click on them does that mean they’re wasted? Not sure how they work but, horrible as people may find them, aren’t we acting as decoys to draw their fire so they expend ad revenue fruitlessly and reducing the chances of the ads appearing somewhere where they might entice people?

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
4 years ago

@Alan

That’s an excellent point…but I for one still don’t want to see ads of scantily clad women with an offer of learning how to “bypass the female brain” or “activate her inner slut with this one trick!” Given that this blog frequently touches on the subject of rape culture, I’d just rather not see a live example that’s presented with a positive spin.

Xarael
Xarael
4 years ago

What a pointless article and waste of everyone’s time.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
4 years ago

Such a waste of your time that you had to spend more of it telling us what a waste of time it is, huh Xarael?

Cute. Run along and play now.

weirwoodtreehugger
4 years ago

Is Mark another Jamie/Aris sock? One of them did also say feminism was cancer.

LindsayIrene
4 years ago

Xarael is, going by his picture, a set of male genitalia that goes running. I wonder where he finds tiny running shoes.

NickNameNick
NickNameNick
4 years ago

@Mrex:

While I agree with your overall sentiment about being presumptuous about why FeMRAs are FeMRAs, I do take issue with one or two comments…

It’s more likely that women become FeMRAs after seeing this kind of attitude from Feminists.

I doubt a woman would become a FeMRA that easily – besides, different schools of thought in Feminism disagree with one another and still consider themselves Feminists – because, based on observation alone, a lot of it stems more from personal incidents and their negative attitudes towards other women was there well before they considered themselves FeMRAs. Though, in my opinion, being incredibly misinformed/ignorant about gender politics and gullibility exacerbate that process.

That said, it is often difficult to believe their anecdotes as to why they ended up becoming FeMRAs because, as Andrea Hardie/Janet Bloomfeld has shown, they’re often prone to obfuscation to make their case sound convincing or visceral enough to have an emotional appeal.

For example, many of them love to bring up the roving gangs of Dworkinites that roam every university campus to start violent arguments for no reason at all. I’m generally not one to dismiss the personal experience of others – but it’s fishy as fuck when something is made out to be ubiquitous and you never come across it even once. Plus, the only time I hear about is over the internet and no where else.

Remember, MRAs have many good debate points.

Perhaps I’m being really nitpicky, but I wouldn’t call them “good” as much as “disingenuous.”

A lot of MRAs like to bring up circumcision and male victims of domestic abuse, which are legitimate problems, as rhetorical ammunition against Feminists and more specifically women than because they’re truly concerned about those issues.

The other thing is their dismissal of nuance and insistence that, say, prevalence of female-on-male rape should be equal to that of male-on-female rape…which is ridiculous. Men being raped is horrible, especially when prisons make it such a likelihood yet people make jokes about it, but acting as if it is as commonplace as women being raped has less to do with fact than it does demanding validation and confirmation bias.

There was a troll here, not too long ago, who equated his being circumcised as an infant as important as having policies put into law that restrict women from having control over their own reproductive health. The fact he thought that is part of the problem, because it assumes that – when women talk about gender issues – perceived infractions against men still somehow take priority over the disproportionate treatment of women have faced throughout history and even now. Of course, they think that’s “true equality” but these are the same people who think they’re “rational” even when having emotional meltdowns.

mrex
mrex
4 years ago

@POM

“Thanks for expressing what I’ve been feeling but unable to articulate.”

Thanks. It’s something that’s been bothering me for a long while in different contexts myself, and I’m still struggling to articulate it. And sometimes I do it myself! Blerg. Internalized misogyny is the worst, and any freedom I gain from it feminism’s greatest gift to me.

@Nick

“I doubt a woman would become a FeMRA that easily”

You’d be surprised. Girls are already raised to view other women with suspicion. Even if this attitude is waning as feminism becomes increasingly “mainstream”, if a young girl’s early experiences towards feminism are full of hypocritical misogyny, it’s a huge loss of trust.

The problem with the quote wasn’t that she oversimplified, it was that she relied on misogynistic stereotypes to oversimplify. FeMRAs are FeMRAs because they care about MRA issues. Full Stop.

Now, I think that FeMRAs are going about solving those issues all wrong, but to *assume* that FeMRAs really have Stockholm syndrome, or that they’re really only boy crazy, or that they really are too stupid and fickle, or too disingenuous, to mean what they say, is the exact same sexist bullshit that misogynist’s use to dismiss women as “fakes”.

Women are fake geeks.

Women are fake scientists.

Women are fake FeMRAs.

Fuck that noise.

” There was a troll here, not too long ago, who equated his being circumcised as an infant as important as having policies put into law that restrict women from having control over their own reproductive health. The fact he thought that is part of the problem, because it assumes that – when women talk about gender issues – perceived infractions against men still somehow take priority over the disproportionate treatment of women have faced throughout history and even now.”

I missed this troll, so perhaps I’m missing something important, but I’m inclined to think, “so what?” Everyone has things that are very important to them, usually things that hit close to home. Trolly may be obnoxiously entitled for filling up a feminist space with his man problems, but circumcision being a big deal &#8482 ; doesn’t take time or energy away from feminist issues unless we allow it to by playing Oppression Olympics with trolls. 😉

Or lets put it this way. There are huge consent issues surrounding non-religious male circumcision. It’s not my place, or your place, to decide how important this is for others.

Shaenon
4 years ago

Sommers must be feeling down and trawling for pity, because she just retweeted a thing I posted making fun of her FOUR MONTHS AGO and now my feed is full of MRAs rushing to her rescue.

I’m not even kidding. It is magical.

NickNameNick
NickNameNick
4 years ago

@Mrex:

You’d be surprised. Girls are already raised to view other women with suspicion. Even if this attitude is waning as feminism becomes increasingly “mainstream”, if a young girl’s early experiences towards feminism are full of hypocritical misogyny, it’s a huge loss of trust.

Um, yeah, that’s what I explained – I’m saying claiming that someone would become a FeMRAs over a single internet comment was simplistic, which is what you said, and that I took issue with.

I’m very confused now…

Now, I think that FeMRAs are going about solving those issues all wrong, but to *assume* that FeMRAs really have Stockholm syndrome, or that they’re really only boy crazy, or that they really are too stupid and fickle, or too disingenuous, to mean what they say, is the exact same sexist bullshit that misogynist’s use to dismiss women as “fakes”.

Calling someone disingenuous isn’t sexist, especially when I’m talking about the Men’s Rights Movement in general. Obfuscation is a common tactic of their’s and their concern for the issues I mentioned do come off as tenuous or as a smokescreen for their vitriol – hell, this entire blog is dedicated to that.

I gave a clear example of such with Hardie/Bloomfeld, who has a tendency to make up fake quotes and make a bunch of other baseless accusations unapologetically. It has nothing specifically to do with her being a woman as much as it does being in the Men’s Rights Movement.

I’m starting to think you didn’t read my comment fully or correctly…

I missed this troll, so perhaps I’m missing something important, but I’m inclined to think, “so what?” Everyone has things that are very important to them, usually things that hit close to home.

Well, thanks for proving my suspicion right and completely missing the point.

I never argued he had no right to find that issue important – I understand why people take issue with it, which I also explained – but that he acted as if getting his foreskin removed as an infant was on par, if not more important, than policy dictating how reproductive health is treated for women and how it can be detrimental.

Here’s a link to what I’m talking about as well, for further clarification, and the troll in question is “Chandler”:

https://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2016/03/22/dudes-if-youre-friends-with-a-lady-youre-a-vagina-explains-reddit-lady-expert/#comments

Trolly may be obnoxiously entitled for filling up a feminist space with his man problems, but circumcision being a big deal doesn’t take time or energy away from feminist issues unless we allow it to by playing Oppression Olympics with trolls. 😉

Why’re you even quoting me when you aren’t responding to what I actually said?

I never said it took time or energy from feminist issues, whatsoever. You made that up. I said, once again:

“The fact he thought that is part of the problem, because it assumes that – when women talk about gender issues – perceived infractions against men still somehow take priority over the disproportionate treatment of women have faced throughout history and even now.”

Trolls come through here all the time doing that, to some extent or another, and he was another example. They often use the “what about teh menz?!” talking point not to really have a discussion but to derail it. They do not argue in good faith and, even if they’re sincere in their views, their tactics in discussion is often manipulative. They’ll self-victimize and claim no one here cares about those issues of male circumcision or men in abusive relationships…even though, really, many of us here (myself included) are not dismissive about it at all. We consider those things to be products of toxic masculinity as well.

Or lets put it this way. There are huge consent issues surrounding non-religious male circumcision. It’s not my place, or your place, to decide how important this is for others.

I never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever judged him for thinking the issue was important nor was that the point I was trying to make. Where the hell did you get that from? In what way did I imply it wasn’t legitimate? Weird, I remember saying…

“A lot of MRAs like to bring up circumcision and male victims of domestic abuse, which are legitimate problems, as rhetorical ammunition against Feminists and more specifically women than because they’re truly concerned about those issues.”

I explained, yet again, that the problem was that he came into the conversation demanding validation and then used his being circumcised as an infant as a way to guilt us – except no one was being dismissive about it nor was post about the issue. He just brought it up as a “gotcha” against his perceived enemies.

Go back, read my comment again – in full – as well as the thread featuring Chandler.

Catalpa
Catalpa
4 years ago

I can’t speak for the FeMRAs who go as deep down the rabbit hole as JB et al, but there are definitely influencing factors that might prompt a woman to go down that path. There’s a lot of pervasive misogynistic attitudes that run through our culture, and it is easy to internalize them. It’s easy to dehumanize women, even for other women. Couple that with the rewards and head-pats that the ‘right’ women or the ‘cool girls’ get by pandering to the men in power, and it can be a tempting option for some. It’s not so much a ‘oh look at the awful things they’re doing to other women, I should suck up to them so they won’t do it to me’ mindset as it is a ‘hey these dudes are really nice to me and pffft who cares about those other women they have it coming because they’re not as cool and special as I am, those shallow cows’ thing.

Personally, and embarrassingly, as a socially awkward girl with nerdy interests and primarily male friends/family members, I was a bit of a proto-FeMRA as a teenager. It was easy to ignore struggles that I didn’t have to face thanks to my relatively privileged position, and repeating the talking points that I’d been exposed to was an easy way to get positive reinforcement. I was one of the ‘cool girls’ the ones that exist to massage other dudes egos and laugh at the jokes and sneer at ‘political correctness’.

Thankfully, I pulled my head out of my ass before I went too deep into those murky and ‘gator infested waters, but I can see why it might draw some FeMRAs in. It can be a lucrative business, as the honey badgers and JB have shown.

NickNameNick
NickNameNick
4 years ago

@Catapala:

There’s a lot of pervasive misogynistic attitudes that run through our culture, and it is easy to internalize them. It’s easy to dehumanize women, even for other women.

Especially older generations. My late grandmother spent a good deal of her time admonishing other women more than men, though being a devout Catholic didn’t help.

Always found it weird how misogynistic Catholics can be – given they use the visage of the Virgin Mary so much, you’d think they’d have more respect for women. Guess not…

Makroth
Makroth
4 years ago

@Xarael

What a pointless comment.

mrex
mrex
4 years ago

@Nick

“Um, yeah, that’s what I explained – I’m saying claiming that someone would become a FeMRAs over a single internet comment was simplistic, which is what you said, and that I took issue with.”

A. It’s not “a single Internet comment”. Obviously I’m criticizing a pattern, hence why I said “this attitude from feminists”, and not “this singular, lonesome Internet comment that I’m using as an example”. Reread what I said. It’s not about a singular person, or a singular comment.

B. I never said it was the only contributing factor in becoming a FeMRA. Reread what I said. It was a lightly snarky way to point out a singular point, not an exaustive analysis.

C. Don’t underestimate the power of bad first impressions, especially to young girls. Especially bad first impressions that fit societal scripts.

“Calling someone disingenuous isn’t sexist, especially when I’m talking about the Men’s Rights Movement in general”

Calling the MRM in general disingenuous is not sexist. Calling a particular FeMRA that you have proof of being a lying liar disingenuous is also not sexist.

Calling literally all FeMRAs disingenuous for being FeMRAs is sexist. And yes, I know that isn’t your argument, but it was mine.

“I explained, yet again, that the problem was that he came into the conversation demanding validation and then used his being circumcised as an infant as a way to guilt us – except no one was being dismissive about it nor was post about the issue. He just brought it up as a “gotcha” against his perceived enemies.”

And this is relevant to my argument that MRAs have legitimate issues that they use to hide their misogyny how? It sounds like you agree with me. Why are we arguing?

Did you just want to rant about MRA trolls? Sure, they’re asses. I literally could not even make it through a single post of Chandler’s.

Still no relevance to my original argument.

“Always found it weird how misogynistic Catholics can be – given they use the visage of the Virgin Mary so much, you’d think they’d have more respect for women. Guess not…”

If benevolent sexism is the carrot, then hostile sexism is the stick.

Shayne O
Shayne O
4 years ago

The puzzlement over why a woman would join the MRA creepies is understandable, but I suspect its because folks arent really thinking of the bigger picture about how the patriachy functions. Like all power relationships, its about maintaining a set of priveleges and the status quo that supports it. Mostly this is a set of priveleges that benefit men at the expense of women, but its not quite that simple. We know that men who dont fit the cis/hetro stereotype get othered and suffer too, but likewise women who DO stick to the cis/hetro stereotype and work in defence of the status quo are given priveleges as well. Malcolm X talked about this in the black community with his concept of the “house negro” and the “field negro”. Summers comes from a mid to wealthy background as an institutional academic and then later as a well rewarded member of the right wing think tank industry. The status quo, the patriachy, is in her interest from this perspective. She’s a “house negro” , so to speak.

But that doesnt mean she wont occasionally break rank. Sometimes shit stinks so hard even ones allies are gonna shy from it.

NickNameNick
NickNameNick
4 years ago

@Mrex:

Based on your comment alone, it seemed as if you were saying that a single internet comment alone could turn someone into a FeMRA.

“It’s more likely that women become FeMRAs after seeing this kind of attitude from Feminists”

Didn’t exactly sound like you were considering the fact other, far more personal experiences would do that.

Don’t underestimate the power of bad first impressions, especially to young girls. Especially bad first impressions that fit societal scripts.

Yes, a bad first impression has an effect. No, I doubt it’d lead to a sea change of one’s views – that’s not how people work. It’s a gradual build-up based on many factors.

Like when some conservative pundit claims to have once been a devout progressive until a singular incident are either lying or exaggerating. It’s likely, just as FeMRAs, they were slowly undergoing that change as it is and either didn’t notice it or just not admit to it.

Calling literally all FeMRAs disingenuous for being FeMRAs is sexist. And yes, I know that isn’t your argument, but it was mine.

Fair enough, then. I assumed it was directed at me because of usage of the phrase – my apologies.

And this is relevant to my argument that MRAs have legitimate issues that they use to hide their misogyny how? It sounds like you agree with me. Why are we arguing?

We’re arguing because you said I was being judgmental about Chandler making a big deal about circumcision, as if I didn’t think anyone had a right to make a big deal about it, even though I never once said anything remotely similar to that. I do think it’s a legitimate problem – I just dislike how MRAs use it as a smokescreen. It’s an insult to those who do take the issue seriously.

Like I said, my problem with calling MRAs talking points “good” is because they aren’t actually used in good faith – they’re very dishonest about it and, as legitimate as those issues are, it’s hard to see MRAs bring it up as something of a genuine concern. Maybe some, sure, but most just use it as rhetorical ammunition.

Again, I’m being nitpicky about it. I get the same way when anyone uses “everyone’s entitled to their opinion” instead of “everyone is allowed to their opinion.” It doesn’t seem like much, but it has an obvious effect on behavior and how people view certain things (often to everyone’s detriment).

If benevolent sexism is the carrot, then hostile sexism is the stick.

Very true. Plus, it doesn’t help when so many in the atheist community these days (especially online) are so hostile towards Feminists and women as well…

mrex
mrex
4 years ago

@Nick

“Based on your comment alone, it seemed as if you were saying that a single internet comment alone could turn someone into a FeMRA.”

Nope, I wasn’t implying that at all. But I do think that FeMRAs are often reacting, in part, to some of the more problematic things that happen in feminism. And yeah, big tent and all, but still.

“Yes, a bad first impression has an effect. No, I doubt it’d lead to a sea change of one’s views – that’s not how people work. It’s a gradual build-up based on many factors.”

I disagee- what seems silly to you can have profound importance to someone else, and a singular important event can absolutely cause a sea change of one’s views, especially if one is on the fence, or hasn’t really thought about and deeply committed to one’s views yet.

But, I’m just arguing retorically here since it was brought up. Or, see my first paragraph of this post. 🙂

“Like I said, my problem with calling MRAs talking points “good” is because they aren’t actually used in good faith – they’re very dishonest about it and, as legitimate as those issues are, it’s hard to see MRAs bring it up as something of a genuine concern. Maybe some, sure, but most just use it as rhetorical ammunition.

A fair debate point remains fair whether it’s abused to manipulate or not. All the best lies are done with the truth.

I never said that *no* FeMRAs are lying liars acting in bad faith, I said it was sexist to assume that most were, based on nothing more than disagreeing with their opinions. We actually don’t personally know most FeMRAs, making *assumptions* that women you don’t know are mentally ill because they believe in x, or that they’re acting in bad faith because you know of a few women that believe in x and are disingenuous, is relying on old, sexist tropes.

Xo
Xo
4 years ago

White racists stealing and misusing black slang (based, basic etc) will always be hilarious to me.