We’re still running a meme surplus in the We Hunted the Mammoth offices, so I’m going to drop a few more on you today. Enjoy the FLAWLESS STEM LOGIC and KEEN GRASP OF REALITY displayed in the following memes, gathered from A Voice for Men’s Facebook page. I’ve lightly censored a couple of them.
WE INVENTED THE MAMMOTH TO FEED YOU
Ha Ha! Girls are stupid and can’t do math amirite fellas high five!
Damn you gals for keeping men out of this low-paying profession that men could easily enter if they wanted to because it’s not actually a “hiring scheme” that keeps them out!
THIS ISN’T ACTUALLY TRUE BUT MAYBE IF WE PUT IT IN ALL-CAPS NO ONE WILL NOTICE!
I see MRAs are still not wanting to admit that women like Marie Curie, Rosalind Franklin, Jane Goodall, Lise Meitner, Shirley Jackson, Irene Joliot-Curie, Dorothy Hodgkin, and Barbara McClintock (to name a few) did anything important.
eloli
8 years ago
Well, regarding the “gender studies” meme, I’ve always found the notion that girls are bad at math or science pretty absurd.
I mean, my five year old daughter’s pretty good at math, loves building houses with her legos, and wants to be a veterinary when she grows up, yet, at the same time, loves to play tea time with her plush toys and her favorite colors are black, pink and violet.
Personally, I think the whole “women are bad at math/hard science” reasoning more the product of patriarchal culture inertia rather than product of demonstrable differences between genres.
At least, that is and has been my experience.
Taking my family, during my current generation, from a total of 22 cousins, the 5 females and 2 males had successful stem careers, and money wise, the top earners have been evenly distributed among genres.
I went to a pretty posh private High School in the mid to late 80s, in which academic rankings were published quarterly.
Girls outperformed boys routinely.
In fact, from that class, the only two graduates who became genious level academic overachievers in College were girls… one of them is a tenured Macroeconomics teacher at MIT right now.
Most of my female classmates went for economics/stem careers actually, only three of them (from a total of about 60) went for “traditional feminine” careers like teaching or nursing.
At home, I’m the one who followed the “humanities path”, since I majored in Communications, Advertising and TV Production, getting postgraduate studies on Marketing and Market Research, while my wife studied biology, became an Agronomist and got her postgraduate on Finance.
Guess if anyone of this MRAs finds out that my wife’s the one who tackles most difficult financial decisions I’ll be branded a “gender traitor mangina”. 😀
Saphira
8 years ago
But these MRAs only support “manly” teaching jobs, like industrial tech or coaching at the secondary level. Men teaching at the preschool or primary level are “f*ggots” or “pedophiles.”
Dedj
8 years ago
That’s the thing that a lot of people in Teh Manosphere don’t get:
If one person constantly calles your arguements sexist/racist, then it may just be that person has a problem with you.
If one group of affiliated people keeps calling your arguements sexist/racist, then it may just be that they have a bias against your arguements.
If multiple, otherwise unaffiliated, groups and individuals all independantly conclude that your arguements are sexist and racist, then it’s likely to be that your arguements are sexist and racist.
They never seem to stop to consider that the reason why *they* cannot talk about X without being accused of being sexist and racist might be because everything they say about X is sexist and racist.
kale
8 years ago
also male nurses get paid more
but women who are a minority in any profession still get paid less.
I went to a pretty posh private High School in the mid to late 80s, in which academic rankings were published quarterly.
Girls outperformed boys routinely.
Yup. (This is actually the “evidence” that’s supposed to justify AVFM’s claim that boys’ education is being ignored — if girls do poorly in school it’s cause they’re girls, if they do well it’s cause the system is rigged)
Personally, I think the whole “women are bad at math/hard science” reasoning more the product of patriarchal culture inertia rather than product of demonstrable differences between genres.
There have been studies that show parents will say their sons are better at math/science even when their daughters are actually making better grades in those subjects. There was recently a study that made the news showing male biology students consistently overrated their male peers and underrated their female peers in terms of competence. Women’s grades/job performance at the point when they drop out of STEM fields are just as strong as men’s if not better. And so on.
It’s just standard operating procedure: hobble and/or sabotage girls and women while boosting boys and men and then cite the fact that girls and women haven’t kept up as proof that boys and men are inherently more capable.
The first meme shows that they really don’t care about facts or history at all. Never mind that women were held back from inventing because they were expected to be good house elves. Despite those odds, there were many women who invented and discovered important new devices and ideas, and in quite a few cases a man took the credit for it.
@Orion: actually, my take is that girls outperformed boys simply before they studied more and worked harder on their assignments.
My experience is nowhere near normal in that regard, since I went to a “posh private school” in which there was a specific policy to correct existing systemic academic biases against girls.
I have no doubt that back then, on any public school, the results would’ve been pretty different, and wouldn’t be surprised if many of said biases persist now, I guess I’ll find out as my daughters grow up.
Dr. NicolaLuna
8 years ago
“A women.”
Well, that’s a lot closer than “A girl” or “A female,” but still not quite right…
I don’t get how they don’t understand it. If they can understand man and men, why can’t they understand that it’s the exact same rule but with “wo” at the beginning of the word.
eloli
8 years ago
@sevenofmine: I’m not one of those parents. I have two daughters, and I’m incredibly proud of how intelligent they are. Just like their mum. 🙂
On a more serious note, I’m somewhat worried about how gender bias will affect their education as they grow up, but at least, both my wife and me are pretty determined to do the best we can to prevent that.
They think quotas are still a thing? Because they’re not. I’d say “in b4 ‘affirmative action = quotas” but I doubt anyone outside perpetually aggrieved white racists/men’s rights activists believe that.
eloli
8 years ago
I have been a white male for more than four decades now, and let me tell you, it’s a pretty sweet deal.
Wherever you look and by almost any metric or statistic, it works out to be great to start out life as a white male.
So that’s why I’ll never understand why so many white men like me are whining about how tough it is to be one.
I mean, what could have happened in their lives to make them feel so beset on every side by feminists, minorities, and the system, when in fact, said system is so stacked in our favor, it’s not even funny?
It’s just mind boggling.
Or it isn’t.
They’re just a bunch of whiners that can’t accept that the answer to the question “Why I’m failing at life so hard?” is pretty obvious if they care to look into a mirror. 😀
Makroth
8 years ago
This is somewhat OT, but i’ve noticed on twitter that there are a lot of anti-feminists shilling for a fundraiser that the Amazingatheist has created for the International Women’s Health Organization. Because obviously feminism wasn’t doing anything at all important until him and people like him started talking./s It’s apparently supposed to be a gotcha against feminism and yet he’s supporting a feminist organization. It’s quite strange. And the places where it’s posted turns the link into a Fallacy of relative privation.
Here it is btw: https://www.crowdrise.com/extraordinary-people-daring-to-actually-help-women-
TheDreadVampy
8 years ago
Re the schooling thing: my mum used to work with the local secondary school on organising the best method of splitting classes. She always said (rather dryly) “isn’t it interesting how when boys are outperforming girls, that’s normal and means we’re doing well, but somehow as soon as girls are doing better than boys, we suddenly have a problem?” This thing still holds even if the girls have improved overall and the boys’ overall grades haven’t dropped.
I mean, she was specifically working in the context of gender splitting STEM classes, which tends to improve female grades significantly but has if anything a negative effect on male grades. I’m not sure how I feel about that specifically (although I definitely did better in physics and chemistry when there were no rowdy teen boys, and I got less confident in my abilities at a-level when I was the only girl in a physics class full of boys) but she raised a valid point: why is sacrificing the educational potential of half your students only unacceptable when they’re male?
jupitaur
8 years ago
iknklast:
Also, in high school, the classes are more specialized. History classes are routinely taught by coaches, and I imagine there are more male coaches in most schools than female. Math teachers probably weight heavily male (not because women can’t do math, mind you. I’m pretty good at it myself, fortunately, since I am an Ecologist, which requires lots and lots of statistics).
Yep. In the high school I attended, the male math teachers were coaches. I was oblivious about sports and only found out about it later (!)
They stunk at teaching math, but it was a “guy” discipline and they needed a teaching job in order to coach the team. So we all got a sub-standard math education to support the male sports teams.
Makroth | March 28, 2016 at 3:01 pm
This is somewhat OT, but i’ve noticed on twitter that there are a lot of anti-feminists shilling for a fundraiser that the Amazingatheist has created for the International Women’s Health Organization.
Reading up on it, I think it has to do with that old chestnut of an argument that feminists are only complaining about “first-world problems” and aren’t actually helping women in THE MIDDLE EAST or Africa, or whatever where women are REALLY oppressed, and us first world feminists should just give up and admit that we don’t care about women because we don’t spend enough time (that is to say, all of our time) throwing money at those women instead of talking about and advocating against sexism here at home.
It’s a sad attempt at a gotcha.
kupo
8 years ago
The Amazing Athiest’s campaign is a direct response to Feminist Frequency’s latest crowd funding campaign.
why is sacrificing the educational potential of half your students only unacceptable when they’re male?
Perhaps a better question would be:
Why is there a difference in performance when genders are split?
Also the framing of the issues is disturbing insofar as it seems to be phrased as necessarily zero-sum.
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
8 years ago
@Makroth
I… What? Even as a gotcha, even by MRA standards, this makes no fucking sense. And not just because it has fuck-hell nothing to do with Anita.
“We hate feminists, and we want to prove that feminists don’t care about women and girls in developing countries, so we’re donating to a feminist charity set up and run by feminists to help women and girls in developing countries! Yeah, that’ll show ’em. Totally nailed it, bro.”
… This is either the weirdest own goal ever or they’re planning to scam the money at the last second a la Elam’s knockoff White Ribbon site.
WeirwoodTreeHugger
8 years ago
Some of my favorite high school teachers were also coaches. But one of our history teachers was the track coach and he was well known for favoring the jocks. It just seemed so weirdly retrograde in my public high school in a progressive city. Of course, he was an old white guy. The younger coach/teachers were much better.
Tragedy of the Commas
8 years ago
Ironically, if they were educated, they’d know that “99.9%” of all inventors and scientists were not and are not men (or even white men). Or that our history of sexism and racism kept women and people of color out of the sciences.
The men behind these memes probably aren’t as brilliant at STEM fields as they claim either. Futrelle has shared many blogs about men who take credit for work other men have done to prove their own specialness as men. “I spend my days hating all women, but men hunted the mammoth and fought the wars, so I’m still better than any woman in any field! Because male!”
Tangential rant:
STEM versus humanities/Arts and Sciences is such a ridiculous fight. People act as if these fields are mutually exclusive ways of understanding our world and ourselves. Or as if being knowledgeable in one field allows one to act as an expert on another and tell them their business.
For example: you know how people complain that calculus are alebgra are useless because they’re not “practical” to “the real world”? People do that with art and language, too. I’ve met dudes (and it’s always dudes) who took a high school AP class, so now they think they know everything about creative expression in writing and language.
I was a part of the “STEM versus humanities/arts” fight in college, too. But I look back at it as an example of stupid tribalism, like Mac vs PC.
Imperator Kahlo
8 years ago
Wow, the comments on Sarkeesian’s Mary Sue article, linked above by Kupo, got swamped by MRA trolls. Do these guys all have dozens of Google Alerts set up, or does some sort of hideous bat signal go out any time a woman dares to have an opinion on the Internet?
The article’s a good read though, and it sounds like a fun project. Some of the harassment she’s getting though… I would be gibbering in a corner in the foetal position for months at a time. Somebody sent everybody Sarkeesian knows an erotic ebook he wrote starring Anita herself. WTF is wrong with people.
Social Justice Atheist
8 years ago
Both my dad and my mom are English teachers. And my dad had a much easier time getting hired than my mom.
Just sayin’, MRAs.
Although both of them probably had a more difficult time than a white person of any gender would have.
kupo
8 years ago
Wow, the comments on Sarkeesian’s Mary Sue article, linked above by Kupo, got swamped by MRA trolls.
And the mods have been actively deleting troll posts, so you’re only seeing the tip of the iceberg.
I see MRAs are still not wanting to admit that women like Marie Curie, Rosalind Franklin, Jane Goodall, Lise Meitner, Shirley Jackson, Irene Joliot-Curie, Dorothy Hodgkin, and Barbara McClintock (to name a few) did anything important.
Well, regarding the “gender studies” meme, I’ve always found the notion that girls are bad at math or science pretty absurd.
I mean, my five year old daughter’s pretty good at math, loves building houses with her legos, and wants to be a veterinary when she grows up, yet, at the same time, loves to play tea time with her plush toys and her favorite colors are black, pink and violet.
Personally, I think the whole “women are bad at math/hard science” reasoning more the product of patriarchal culture inertia rather than product of demonstrable differences between genres.
At least, that is and has been my experience.
Taking my family, during my current generation, from a total of 22 cousins, the 5 females and 2 males had successful stem careers, and money wise, the top earners have been evenly distributed among genres.
I went to a pretty posh private High School in the mid to late 80s, in which academic rankings were published quarterly.
Girls outperformed boys routinely.
In fact, from that class, the only two graduates who became genious level academic overachievers in College were girls… one of them is a tenured Macroeconomics teacher at MIT right now.
Most of my female classmates went for economics/stem careers actually, only three of them (from a total of about 60) went for “traditional feminine” careers like teaching or nursing.
At home, I’m the one who followed the “humanities path”, since I majored in Communications, Advertising and TV Production, getting postgraduate studies on Marketing and Market Research, while my wife studied biology, became an Agronomist and got her postgraduate on Finance.
Guess if anyone of this MRAs finds out that my wife’s the one who tackles most difficult financial decisions I’ll be branded a “gender traitor mangina”. 😀
But these MRAs only support “manly” teaching jobs, like industrial tech or coaching at the secondary level. Men teaching at the preschool or primary level are “f*ggots” or “pedophiles.”
That’s the thing that a lot of people in Teh Manosphere don’t get:
If one person constantly calles your arguements sexist/racist, then it may just be that person has a problem with you.
If one group of affiliated people keeps calling your arguements sexist/racist, then it may just be that they have a bias against your arguements.
If multiple, otherwise unaffiliated, groups and individuals all independantly conclude that your arguements are sexist and racist, then it’s likely to be that your arguements are sexist and racist.
They never seem to stop to consider that the reason why *they* cannot talk about X without being accused of being sexist and racist might be because everything they say about X is sexist and racist.
also male nurses get paid more
but women who are a minority in any profession still get paid less.
Yup. (This is actually the “evidence” that’s supposed to justify AVFM’s claim that boys’ education is being ignored — if girls do poorly in school it’s cause they’re girls, if they do well it’s cause the system is rigged)
There have been studies that show parents will say their sons are better at math/science even when their daughters are actually making better grades in those subjects. There was recently a study that made the news showing male biology students consistently overrated their male peers and underrated their female peers in terms of competence. Women’s grades/job performance at the point when they drop out of STEM fields are just as strong as men’s if not better. And so on.
It’s just standard operating procedure: hobble and/or sabotage girls and women while boosting boys and men and then cite the fact that girls and women haven’t kept up as proof that boys and men are inherently more capable.
The first meme shows that they really don’t care about facts or history at all. Never mind that women were held back from inventing because they were expected to be good house elves. Despite those odds, there were many women who invented and discovered important new devices and ideas, and in quite a few cases a man took the credit for it.
https://www.fiatphysica.com/blog/women-in-science/inventions-by-women
@Orion: actually, my take is that girls outperformed boys simply before they studied more and worked harder on their assignments.
My experience is nowhere near normal in that regard, since I went to a “posh private school” in which there was a specific policy to correct existing systemic academic biases against girls.
I have no doubt that back then, on any public school, the results would’ve been pretty different, and wouldn’t be surprised if many of said biases persist now, I guess I’ll find out as my daughters grow up.
I don’t get how they don’t understand it. If they can understand man and men, why can’t they understand that it’s the exact same rule but with “wo” at the beginning of the word.
@sevenofmine: I’m not one of those parents. I have two daughters, and I’m incredibly proud of how intelligent they are. Just like their mum. 🙂
On a more serious note, I’m somewhat worried about how gender bias will affect their education as they grow up, but at least, both my wife and me are pretty determined to do the best we can to prevent that.
They think quotas are still a thing? Because they’re not. I’d say “in b4 ‘affirmative action = quotas” but I doubt anyone outside perpetually aggrieved white racists/men’s rights activists believe that.
I have been a white male for more than four decades now, and let me tell you, it’s a pretty sweet deal.
Wherever you look and by almost any metric or statistic, it works out to be great to start out life as a white male.
So that’s why I’ll never understand why so many white men like me are whining about how tough it is to be one.
I mean, what could have happened in their lives to make them feel so beset on every side by feminists, minorities, and the system, when in fact, said system is so stacked in our favor, it’s not even funny?
It’s just mind boggling.
Or it isn’t.
They’re just a bunch of whiners that can’t accept that the answer to the question “Why I’m failing at life so hard?” is pretty obvious if they care to look into a mirror. 😀
This is somewhat OT, but i’ve noticed on twitter that there are a lot of anti-feminists shilling for a fundraiser that the Amazingatheist has created for the International Women’s Health Organization. Because obviously feminism wasn’t doing anything at all important until him and people like him started talking./s It’s apparently supposed to be a gotcha against feminism and yet he’s supporting a feminist organization. It’s quite strange. And the places where it’s posted turns the link into a Fallacy of relative privation.
Here it is btw: https://www.crowdrise.com/extraordinary-people-daring-to-actually-help-women-
Re the schooling thing: my mum used to work with the local secondary school on organising the best method of splitting classes. She always said (rather dryly) “isn’t it interesting how when boys are outperforming girls, that’s normal and means we’re doing well, but somehow as soon as girls are doing better than boys, we suddenly have a problem?” This thing still holds even if the girls have improved overall and the boys’ overall grades haven’t dropped.
I mean, she was specifically working in the context of gender splitting STEM classes, which tends to improve female grades significantly but has if anything a negative effect on male grades. I’m not sure how I feel about that specifically (although I definitely did better in physics and chemistry when there were no rowdy teen boys, and I got less confident in my abilities at a-level when I was the only girl in a physics class full of boys) but she raised a valid point: why is sacrificing the educational potential of half your students only unacceptable when they’re male?
iknklast:
Yep. In the high school I attended, the male math teachers were coaches. I was oblivious about sports and only found out about it later (!)
They stunk at teaching math, but it was a “guy” discipline and they needed a teaching job in order to coach the team. So we all got a sub-standard math education to support the male sports teams.
Reading up on it, I think it has to do with that old chestnut of an argument that feminists are only complaining about “first-world problems” and aren’t actually helping women in THE MIDDLE EAST or Africa, or whatever where women are REALLY oppressed, and us first world feminists should just give up and admit that we don’t care about women because we don’t spend enough time (that is to say, all of our time) throwing money at those women instead of talking about and advocating against sexism here at home.
It’s a sad attempt at a gotcha.
The Amazing Athiest’s campaign is a direct response to Feminist Frequency’s latest crowd funding campaign.
Anita wrote an article about it:
http://www.themarysue.com/ordinary-women-feminist-frequency/
Perhaps a better question would be:
Also the framing of the issues is disturbing insofar as it seems to be phrased as necessarily zero-sum.
@Makroth
I… What? Even as a gotcha, even by MRA standards, this makes no fucking sense. And not just because it has fuck-hell nothing to do with Anita.
“We hate feminists, and we want to prove that feminists don’t care about women and girls in developing countries, so we’re donating to a feminist charity set up and run by feminists to help women and girls in developing countries! Yeah, that’ll show ’em. Totally nailed it, bro.”
… This is either the weirdest own goal ever or they’re planning to scam the money at the last second a la Elam’s knockoff White Ribbon site.
Some of my favorite high school teachers were also coaches. But one of our history teachers was the track coach and he was well known for favoring the jocks. It just seemed so weirdly retrograde in my public high school in a progressive city. Of course, he was an old white guy. The younger coach/teachers were much better.
Ironically, if they were educated, they’d know that “99.9%” of all inventors and scientists were not and are not men (or even white men). Or that our history of sexism and racism kept women and people of color out of the sciences.
Besides, I thought these men didn’t want women in the sciences anyway? Can’t imagine why women would feel unwelcome in STEM fields.
@ ScarlettAthena
They don’t, unless those fields produce artifacts they can use as props for showy displays of “intelligence”. They think Milo is a journalist, ffs.
The men behind these memes probably aren’t as brilliant at STEM fields as they claim either. Futrelle has shared many blogs about men who take credit for work other men have done to prove their own specialness as men. “I spend my days hating all women, but men hunted the mammoth and fought the wars, so I’m still better than any woman in any field! Because male!”
Tangential rant:
STEM versus humanities/Arts and Sciences is such a ridiculous fight. People act as if these fields are mutually exclusive ways of understanding our world and ourselves. Or as if being knowledgeable in one field allows one to act as an expert on another and tell them their business.
For example: you know how people complain that calculus are alebgra are useless because they’re not “practical” to “the real world”? People do that with art and language, too. I’ve met dudes (and it’s always dudes) who took a high school AP class, so now they think they know everything about creative expression in writing and language.
I was a part of the “STEM versus humanities/arts” fight in college, too. But I look back at it as an example of stupid tribalism, like Mac vs PC.
Wow, the comments on Sarkeesian’s Mary Sue article, linked above by Kupo, got swamped by MRA trolls. Do these guys all have dozens of Google Alerts set up, or does some sort of hideous bat signal go out any time a woman dares to have an opinion on the Internet?
The article’s a good read though, and it sounds like a fun project. Some of the harassment she’s getting though… I would be gibbering in a corner in the foetal position for months at a time. Somebody sent everybody Sarkeesian knows an erotic ebook he wrote starring Anita herself. WTF is wrong with people.
Both my dad and my mom are English teachers. And my dad had a much easier time getting hired than my mom.
Just sayin’, MRAs.
Although both of them probably had a more difficult time than a white person of any gender would have.
And the mods have been actively deleting troll posts, so you’re only seeing the tip of the iceberg.