We’re still running a meme surplus in the We Hunted the Mammoth offices, so I’m going to drop a few more on you today. Enjoy the FLAWLESS STEM LOGIC and KEEN GRASP OF REALITY displayed in the following memes, gathered from A Voice for Men’s Facebook page. I’ve lightly censored a couple of them.
WE INVENTED THE MAMMOTH TO FEED YOU
Ha Ha! Girls are stupid and can’t do math amirite fellas high five!
Damn you gals for keeping men out of this low-paying profession that men could easily enter if they wanted to because it’s not actually a “hiring scheme” that keeps them out!
THIS ISN’T ACTUALLY TRUE BUT MAYBE IF WE PUT IT IN ALL-CAPS NO ONE WILL NOTICE!
Others have answered the now-banned troll’s tantrum more aptly, but…
…but…but this:
A) Women get preference on the birth cert,
A woman (or, tbf, someone with a uterus) just grew a person and then either pushed that person or had that person cut out of their body…and it’s unnnfaiiiiir that they’re listed first on a birth certificate.
Never mind that fact that that just makes record keeping easier – so far, most babies (excepting those abandoned 🙁 ) have someone who can be immediately be pointed to as having gestated them, not all have someone who can immediately be pointed to as having contributed the other bit. Consistently putting one of those people in the first available slot is simply consistent.
I mean, what the actual fuck? This of aaaaallllll the things on the great green earth is one of your banners?
Honestly, this isn’t something that I’ve ever noticed.
It’s never been pointed out to me, perhaps because my husband isn’t a whinging little asshole.
Skiriki
8 years ago
Oh hey, I came across this — it is intended for writers, but we could also note that it contains research and references to original materials, about how women prior Age of Enlightenment did things.
Sigh, late to the party. I see you won without me.
Then again, with a commentariat this full of funny and insightful people, it was bound to happen.
Viscaria
8 years ago
Wow, that a trip.
I just want to point out that “you made me angry, so now I hate everybody like you, and if I’m violent towards them it’s your fault” is a lie that controlling abusers like to tell. If one person gets angry at another and punches a wall, the puncher, not the person they’re mad at, is responsible for the hole. No matter how much they insist it’s the opposite.
Jamie, I’m guessing you’re not reading anymore, but if you are: if you choose to actually follow through on your threats against feminists, you can’t foist the responsibility off on us because we argued with you on the internet that one time. We’re not, in fact, an “angry anti-feminist factory,” turning regular men into ragemonsters who can’t control their own actions. You are still in control of your own choices, even when you’re mad.
littleknown
8 years ago
That was interesting. I have deep respect for everyone who had the patience to try.
I think I like this line from Jamie the best:
I was 95% in a logic test
That needs to go on a t-shirt, I think.
Funny how a guy who “was 95% in a logic test” thinks that spamming the same mindless assertions over and over, getting angrier and angrier when people start refuting his assertions point by point, and finally blowing up with death threats of the “you’re all going to f***ing burn” variety; will win him converts and turn people away from feminism.
Full STEM ahead, indeed.
sunnysombrera
8 years ago
I read that Jamie debacle, and just…wow. You know, I’ve been meaning to tell all you guys how intelligent and witty I think you all are, and this seems like a good time to say it. All of you, even the Mammotheers who missed out on the drama. I mean it, I’m seriously impressed by the brains and maturity I see on display in this blog, especially when a troll rolls up. Never underestimate yourselves! 🙂
We are still early days. Feminist radical, LGBT radical early. We still haven’t organised. So early.
For fucks sake. The MRM has been around since the early 70’s. That’s almost 50 years now. Compare what they’ve got to show for it to what feminism and the LGBT movement has managed to accomplish in that time. If they were going to do any real world positive activism, they would have done something by now besides churning out youtube videos and MGTOW lifestyle blogs.
The MRM spent the 80’s and 90’s doing teaming up with the religious right, arguing for traditional gender roles of male authority in the home and workplace and attempting to achieve their goal of returning to traditionalism by actively opposing and attempting to dismantle services and supports put in place to protect abused women and children. If only they applied even half that effort to creating services that actually helped men.
All the other points about family court bias myth, feminists historically opposing the draft and dangerous occupations was discussed in the last thread with the JustAsking troll. Maybe David could create a page where retorts to all common talking points are compiled with the arguments and links we’ve already supplied so that we could simply redirect them to that so these threads don’t get so repetitive? Maybe some of the links and more well-phrased explanations we’ve already composed in the threads could be used with permission to take some of the work out of it for him? Just a suggestion.
mockingbird
8 years ago
@GenJones – An “FAQ for MRAS & Trolls” page. Love it.
—
*reads own earlier comment*
Ewwh.
In hindsight, taking several short breaks (coffee, coffee cake, letting cats out, morning convo w/ spouse, letting dog out, letting cats in again, letting dog in) while writing a shortish response may not have been the best method for maintaining coherence.
Policy of Madness
8 years ago
Maybe David could create a page where retorts to all common talking points are compiled with the arguments and links we’ve already supplied so that we could simply redirect them to that so these threads don’t get so repetitive?
It wouldn’t change any minds, but it certainly would make dealing with trolls more straightforward.
I endorse!
mockingbird
8 years ago
At the very least, it might help to drive home that they’re not the first to DROP A TRUTH BOMB on this site and/or that the commentariat’s not accepting their assertions for reasons other than that HARSH REALITY IS TOO MUCH FOR WEAK MINDS!!!1!
Hambeast, Social Justice Legbeard
8 years ago
I think that was the fastest I’ve ever gotten through seven (count ’em) SEVEN pages of comments! Thanks to Jamie, whose comments I was able to scroll through whilst nimbly dancing to avoid all the teal deer and troll poop. I’m really good at it now!
Gen Jones – That is really an awesome idea that will no doubt become an MRM talking point about how lazy and bad-at-arguing we are. How ironic that MRM talking points come about because of how lazy and bad-at-arguing they are!
Imaginary Petal
8 years ago
@mockingbird
That’s what I was thinking too. So many trolls seem to think we just haven’t heard of their favorite MRA youtuber, and if we would just listen to their unbeatable arguments we’d change our minds. Sort of like a Christian who thinks atheists just aren’t aware of the “good news”. I think it’s a great idea to be able to prove to them that we’ve heard their talking points before.
Freemage
8 years ago
I can’t believe I read the whole thing…
Anyway, I do appreciate Jamie posting that link to the study on sentencing discrepancies, which makes it clear once and for all that forging an actual gynocracy would actually help with men’s issues better than anything the manuropsphere has come up with.
DepressedCNS
8 years ago
Man, you guys checking the sources are CHAMPS! I disengaged when he said the gender disparity in homicide statistics was caused by victim reporting bias. I mean…geeeeez
GenJones
8 years ago
Well if we contributed to the FAQ then they are our arguments, so if we’re so bad at arguing they can debunk our FAQ. Besides, I’m sure several MRM sites have their own FAQ sections.They emulate the same behaviors they criticize and denounce anyway, so what else is new? Shit, I’ve seen them relying on bingo boards, except they don’t refute the point and just go “look, it’s on this graphic! Code blue I win!”
It’s not actively updating anymore, but Finally Feminism 101 is a good comprehensive source for most basic topics.
Tizio
8 years ago
Well, that was one hell of a self-destructive troll tantrum. Bet it’s the quickest on this entire website.
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
8 years ago
None of this would have happened if we’d just allowed Jamie to have a voice.
I like the idea of having a page with links and rebuttals that trolls can be automatically directed to. The best defense against a Gish Gallop isn’t a wide open pasture, it’s a boring, narrow, repetitive chute.
I agree with the idea of a JAQ-ing off page we can re-direct Gish Gallopers to.
Not that they’ll read it, but only to make our lives easier.
Social Justice Atheist
8 years ago
I am 1,000% on board with a FAQ for trolls/manospherians. Especially for the tedious as hell ones like little snowflake Jamie, who act like we have never, ever heard their oh-so-wise-and-truthful talking points.
But you guyz, you just need to examine the evidence!
Jamie’s little meltdown was kinda funny though, after he got through teal deering til he was blue in the face. It’s hilarious how he supposedly got 95% on a logic test then started with the extreme emotional outbursts and doomsday-level melodramatic threats. I thought it was us females who were the overly emotional ones, and yet everyone here refuted his points perfectly. You know, using ACTUAL LOGIC. Something Jamie has obviously never heard of.
Policy of Madness
8 years ago
I think another good FAQ might list at least some of the problems that disproportionately affect men and are real problems, with links to groups that are working on those problems. One of the dipshit talking points is that feminists deny that men have any problems whatsoever, which is demonstrably not true. I, for one, would really welcome a quick and easy link to a list of men’s issues with resources.
Social Justice Atheist
8 years ago
@PoM
Seconding this as well. Great idea.
Genjones
8 years ago
Freemage also put together a great list of feminist anti war activist groups in the last thread. We could also include links showing associations for women in blue collar jobs.
These are some great ideas, I hope David considers it. It would sure beat going in perpetual circles.
Most of his published research on the “gender symmetry” in IPV issue seems focused on physical aggression perpetrated by women against men and perceptions of male victims and female perpetrators. The studies in his CV and the annotated bibliography seem to have the same problems other people already brought up. The focus seems to be largely on the statistical frequency of violent or verbally abusive acts and not on coercive control, the motivation for the behavior, or the level of danger to the victim (a study Fiebert cites even says men are more likely to choke women).
Many of the studies use the Conflict Tactics Survey, which is controversial because it doesn’t measure stuff like coercion and control, who initiated the violence, or the perpetrator’s motives.
Others have answered the now-banned troll’s tantrum more aptly, but…
…but…but this:
A) Women get preference on the birth cert,
A woman (or, tbf, someone with a uterus) just grew a person and then either pushed that person or had that person cut out of their body…and it’s unnnfaiiiiir that they’re listed first on a birth certificate.
Never mind that fact that that just makes record keeping easier – so far, most babies (excepting those abandoned 🙁 ) have someone who can be immediately be pointed to as having gestated them, not all have someone who can immediately be pointed to as having contributed the other bit. Consistently putting one of those people in the first available slot is simply consistent.
I mean, what the actual fuck?
This of aaaaallllll the things on the great green earth is one of your banners?
Honestly, this isn’t something that I’ve ever noticed.
It’s never been pointed out to me, perhaps because my husband isn’t a whinging little asshole.
Oh hey, I came across this — it is intended for writers, but we could also note that it contains research and references to original materials, about how women prior Age of Enlightenment did things.
http://www.tor.com/2016/03/23/writing-women-characters-into-epic-fantasy-without-quotas/
Sigh, late to the party. I see you won without me.
Then again, with a commentariat this full of funny and insightful people, it was bound to happen.
Wow, that a trip.
I just want to point out that “you made me angry, so now I hate everybody like you, and if I’m violent towards them it’s your fault” is a lie that controlling abusers like to tell. If one person gets angry at another and punches a wall, the puncher, not the person they’re mad at, is responsible for the hole. No matter how much they insist it’s the opposite.
Jamie, I’m guessing you’re not reading anymore, but if you are: if you choose to actually follow through on your threats against feminists, you can’t foist the responsibility off on us because we argued with you on the internet that one time. We’re not, in fact, an “angry anti-feminist factory,” turning regular men into ragemonsters who can’t control their own actions. You are still in control of your own choices, even when you’re mad.
That was interesting. I have deep respect for everyone who had the patience to try.
I think I like this line from Jamie the best:
That needs to go on a t-shirt, I think.
Funny how a guy who “was 95% in a logic test” thinks that spamming the same mindless assertions over and over, getting angrier and angrier when people start refuting his assertions point by point, and finally blowing up with death threats of the “you’re all going to f***ing burn” variety; will win him converts and turn people away from feminism.
Full STEM ahead, indeed.
I read that Jamie debacle, and just…wow. You know, I’ve been meaning to tell all you guys how intelligent and witty I think you all are, and this seems like a good time to say it. All of you, even the Mammotheers who missed out on the drama. I mean it, I’m seriously impressed by the brains and maturity I see on display in this blog, especially when a troll rolls up. Never underestimate yourselves! 🙂
Seven pages
http://rack.1.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE0LzEyLzExLzliL3ViUmMwMnUuNmM0YzcuZ2lmCnAJdGh1bWIJMTIwMHg5NjAwPg/1a323d98/985/ubRc02u.gif
I think this line was my favorite:
For fucks sake. The MRM has been around since the early 70’s. That’s almost 50 years now. Compare what they’ve got to show for it to what feminism and the LGBT movement has managed to accomplish in that time. If they were going to do any real world positive activism, they would have done something by now besides churning out youtube videos and MGTOW lifestyle blogs.
The MRM spent the 80’s and 90’s doing teaming up with the religious right, arguing for traditional gender roles of male authority in the home and workplace and attempting to achieve their goal of returning to traditionalism by actively opposing and attempting to dismantle services and supports put in place to protect abused women and children. If only they applied even half that effort to creating services that actually helped men.
All the other points about family court bias myth, feminists historically opposing the draft and dangerous occupations was discussed in the last thread with the JustAsking troll. Maybe David could create a page where retorts to all common talking points are compiled with the arguments and links we’ve already supplied so that we could simply redirect them to that so these threads don’t get so repetitive? Maybe some of the links and more well-phrased explanations we’ve already composed in the threads could be used with permission to take some of the work out of it for him? Just a suggestion.
@GenJones – An “FAQ for MRAS & Trolls” page. Love it.
—
*reads own earlier comment*
Ewwh.
In hindsight, taking several short breaks (coffee, coffee cake, letting cats out, morning convo w/ spouse, letting dog out, letting cats in again, letting dog in) while writing a shortish response may not have been the best method for maintaining coherence.
It wouldn’t change any minds, but it certainly would make dealing with trolls more straightforward.
I endorse!
At the very least, it might help to drive home that they’re not the first to DROP A TRUTH BOMB on this site and/or that the commentariat’s not accepting their assertions for reasons other than that HARSH REALITY IS TOO MUCH FOR WEAK MINDS!!!1!
I think that was the fastest I’ve ever gotten through seven (count ’em) SEVEN pages of comments! Thanks to Jamie, whose comments I was able to scroll through whilst nimbly dancing to avoid all the teal deer and troll poop. I’m really good at it now!
Gen Jones – That is really an awesome idea that will no doubt become an MRM talking point about how lazy and bad-at-arguing we are. How ironic that MRM talking points come about because of how lazy and bad-at-arguing they are!
@mockingbird
That’s what I was thinking too. So many trolls seem to think we just haven’t heard of their favorite MRA youtuber, and if we would just listen to their unbeatable arguments we’d change our minds. Sort of like a Christian who thinks atheists just aren’t aware of the “good news”. I think it’s a great idea to be able to prove to them that we’ve heard their talking points before.
I can’t believe I read the whole thing…
Anyway, I do appreciate Jamie posting that link to the study on sentencing discrepancies, which makes it clear once and for all that forging an actual gynocracy would actually help with men’s issues better than anything the manuropsphere has come up with.
Man, you guys checking the sources are CHAMPS! I disengaged when he said the gender disparity in homicide statistics was caused by victim reporting bias. I mean…geeeeez
Well if we contributed to the FAQ then they are our arguments, so if we’re so bad at arguing they can debunk our FAQ. Besides, I’m sure several MRM sites have their own FAQ sections.They emulate the same behaviors they criticize and denounce anyway, so what else is new? Shit, I’ve seen them relying on bingo boards, except they don’t refute the point and just go “look, it’s on this graphic! Code blue I win!”
It’s not actively updating anymore, but Finally Feminism 101 is a good comprehensive source for most basic topics.
Well, that was one hell of a self-destructive troll tantrum. Bet it’s the quickest on this entire website.
None of this would have happened if we’d just allowed Jamie to have a voice.
I like the idea of having a page with links and rebuttals that trolls can be automatically directed to. The best defense against a Gish Gallop isn’t a wide open pasture, it’s a boring, narrow, repetitive chute.
I agree with the idea of a JAQ-ing off page we can re-direct Gish Gallopers to.
Not that they’ll read it, but only to make our lives easier.
I am 1,000% on board with a FAQ for trolls/manospherians. Especially for the tedious as hell ones like little snowflake Jamie, who act like we have never, ever heard their oh-so-wise-and-truthful talking points.
But you guyz, you just need to examine the evidence!
Jamie’s little meltdown was kinda funny though, after he got through teal deering til he was blue in the face. It’s hilarious how he supposedly got 95% on a logic test then started with the extreme emotional outbursts and doomsday-level melodramatic threats. I thought it was us females who were the overly emotional ones, and yet everyone here refuted his points perfectly. You know, using ACTUAL LOGIC. Something Jamie has obviously never heard of.
I think another good FAQ might list at least some of the problems that disproportionately affect men and are real problems, with links to groups that are working on those problems. One of the dipshit talking points is that feminists deny that men have any problems whatsoever, which is demonstrably not true. I, for one, would really welcome a quick and easy link to a list of men’s issues with resources.
@PoM
Seconding this as well. Great idea.
Freemage also put together a great list of feminist anti war activist groups in the last thread. We could also include links showing associations for women in blue collar jobs.
These are some great ideas, I hope David considers it. It would sure beat going in perpetual circles.
I looked more closely at Martin Fiebert’s Web page and his CV: http://web.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/
Most of his published research on the “gender symmetry” in IPV issue seems focused on physical aggression perpetrated by women against men and perceptions of male victims and female perpetrators. The studies in his CV and the annotated bibliography seem to have the same problems other people already brought up. The focus seems to be largely on the statistical frequency of violent or verbally abusive acts and not on coercive control, the motivation for the behavior, or the level of danger to the victim (a study Fiebert cites even says men are more likely to choke women).
Many of the studies use the Conflict Tactics Survey, which is controversial because it doesn’t measure stuff like coercion and control, who initiated the violence, or the perpetrator’s motives.