Men’s Rights Activists and other antifeminists always hate it when feminists point them to dictionary definitions of feminism as “the advocacy of equal rights for men and women” (or similar) rather than “a seekrit cabal of evil spermjacking sluts that want to genocide all men,” which is what all MRAs apparently think feminism really is.
In the meme below, one anti-feminist tries to prove that dictionary definitions aren’t always right so there, and if the dictionary can get “tomato” wrong then it must have feminism wrong too!
Aw, dude. You tried. But apparently you didn’t bother to check the dictionary definition of “tomato” first. Here’s what you get if you type the words “tomato definition” into Google.
D’oh!
I can sort of sympathize with the mistrust of dictionary definitions when it comes to accurately describing a nuanced concept, though. I’ve seen enough people point to the dictionary to insist that some terrible thing they do/support isn’t really terrible because it’s not described that way in the dictionary. Nevermind that the makers of dictionaries are merely attempting to catalogue how terms are commonly used, which can miss specialized uses or new conceptualizations.
And yet, if you call an MRA a homophobe, transphobe or Islamophobe or tell him that you can’t be sexist against men or racist against white people, he’ll immediately pull a dictionary out of his ass.
They can also be green, brown, orange, and purple. I love tomatoes. And feminists. But not that disgusting thing at the top of the post. Everyone knows this is the best aspic:
Also, since we’re having fun with old recipe cards: http://vintagerecipecards.com
A fruit is the part of the plant with seeds so by definition, a tomato is a fruit. The dictionary is right. And yes, people USE it as a vegetable but that doesn’t scientifically make it so. If asked in a science class, you would still say a tomato is a fruit. Because it is. So are peppers. Not all fruits are sweet.
And some very very few feminists (TERFS come to mind) do genuinely hate men. But they are a very, very small minority and most do not hate men at all whatsoever. If you think about it though, anybody with any label could hate men. Even people who don’t call themselves feminists. So their point is kind of moot.
However, I do understand not trusting the dictionary definition of things entirely. I mean, I’m sure the dictionary definition of MRAs is something like, “People who are for men’s rights” or something like that, even though that is not true at all. They are just against rights for women.
Ah, argumentam ad dictionarium. In the list of arguments-that-are-tacit-admissions-of-defeat, it’s second only to ex rectum.
Also, OED no longer has any moral high ground when it comes to defining the language. Their Word of the Year 2014 was the “crying with laughter” emoji. Anyone attempting to use OED as an authority from this point forward has ceded the discussion.
They have a point in that dictionary definitions aren’t particularly useful in describing a social movement or prejudices in context of our culture. As others have said, they love to pull out the race neutral definition in the dictionary to try and claim that racism against white people is a thing.
Of course, MRAs have utterly failed to prove that the dictionary definition of feminism is incorrect. They’ve never really shown that it’s about oppressing men. I just think it’s pointless to show the dictionary definition. They’re making the extraordinary claim, they need to provide proof. We don’t need to disprove them at all.
What’s everyone’s favorite tomato based sauce or dish? I think I’m going to have to go with salsa. Unless pizza counts as a tomato based dish. Then I choose that.
What is aspic? Please define. My dictionary fell into flames when an MRA looked at it to try to prove me wrong.
As for favourite tomato dish? Salsa. Not the stuff that is essentially spicy tomato sauce, but pico de gallo or salsa fresca. If you need me I’ll be off drooling and dreaming about it.
Is there such a book as “cooking with H. P. Lovecraft”? Because that tomato aspic picture looks like it belongs there.
Also, meme dude, citation needed on the North Korea thing. Outside of the DPRK itself, I don’t think you’ll find a dictionary which baldly defines it as a democratic people’s republic, rather than observing that that is the official Anglicised name. Maybe you should look up “dictionary”, since I think you’re unclear on the whole concept.
If we don’t count tomato sauce, toasted bacon and tomato sandwiches I guess
If we do count tomato sauce then I guess pizza.
Dictionaries contain definitions of words and not meanings of words.
Life
The condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death:
but that’s not the meaning of life, this is…
http://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/60795504.jpg
I like tomatoes and most tomato products (pizza and pasta, salsa, etc.) but for some reason I really hate ketchup.
MRAs are just not smart. It would be funny, if they weren’t so dangerous.
This nice,a place where ponies can be posted and with the exception of outside trolls no one is going to post anything ‘rule 34-y’ and no one will get offended by people posting ponies.
@kupo that’s not a foodstuff it’s CTHULHU !
“It’s a fruit, but people use it as a vegetable!” is only a mind-bending paradox or an illogical statement if you also think “it’s a tuber, but people use it as a vegetable!” or “it’s a stem, but people use it as a vegetable!” are illogical paradoxes.
There is no scientific definition for a “vegetable.” That’s because “vegetable” is a cooking term, not a botanical one. Virtually every plant part is called a vegetable for some species or other. Using a tomato as a vegetable in cooking does not change its scientific status as a fruit, because these are completely different ways of describing a tomato in completely different contexts that have no connection to one another.
So we can see that this MRA is actually giving us helpful advice! If you see a woman who can be described as a “man-hater” and also as a “feminist,” it’s useful to remember that these are completely different ways to describe her in completely different contexts that have no connection whatsoever! Her feminism and her man-hating are unrelated!
Thanks, MRAs!
@Fabe – That’s because ponies are awesome. Just watched the new season’s first two episodes with my little one. Alicorn babies FTW!
WWTH – I’m not sure if this qualifies, but my absolute favorite thing to do with a tomato is grow a tasty-ass heirloom variety*, take a tomato straight off the vine, slice it, put it on lightly toasted bread with a liiiittle bit of mayo, sprinkle with a dash of salt and pepper, and have a nearly orgasmic sandwich experience.
*It doesn’t have to be heirloom, it just shouldn’t be one of the tasteless, grainy monstrosities usually grown to to stay pretty while being shipped.
Ratatouille! OMFG gazpacho !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
::passes out and probably dies a terrible death from severe ratatouille and gazpacho deprivation::
::revives just enough to whisper, in close-up and over a deeply moving orchestral sound-track:: and pizza!
I just looked up “aspic” and I shouldn’t have. I saw pictures of whole fish in jelly. Whole fish by themselves are disturbing enough when you’re someone like me who prefers their fish to be in more of a fillet form that doesn’t resemble the animal it came from. Putting it in jelly just turns it into more of a nightmare.
Aspic creations don’t have to look horrifying. At their best, they are beautiful, like food suspended in glass. Here’s an especially nice one: http: //cdn.gingerandtomato.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/filename19.jpg
I like this one, too.
Of course, you don’t want to put that shit in your mouth, but it’s pleasing to the eyes!
eta: getting that first link to not embed was ridiculously hard, so I broke it.
I looked up “aspic” too just now. Ewewewew so much food just floating around in clear gelatin. Just…blegh. I couldn’t bring myself to even try that, and I am pretty adventurous with trying different foods.
The way they look is kinda cool, but definitely not something I would ever want to eat. I don’t think you could pay me honestly.
Yeah, people who would look to a dictionary to define idelogies, social movements, philosophical concepts, etc, are usually not very bright. These are people who demand that everything be simple enough to explain in fewer than 20 words. We know that MRAs, and conservatives in general, don’t like nuance and complicated issues.
I’ve seen people perform the weirdest mental gymnastics when appealing to dictionary definitions. I once had a discussion online with someone who appealed to a one-word definition of a broad philosophical concept, while dismissing encyclopedias with much more detailed explanations. Later, he also dismissed other dictionaries in favor of the one dictionary he had appealed to. Finally, he claimed that only dictionaries in physical book form were trustworthy. Even the online versions of dictionaries that do exist in book form were dismissed. Conclusion: appealing to a dictionary definition is what you do when you’re too lazy to really learn anything.
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I find tomatoes by themselves pretty disgusting, but my fav tomato based dishes are tomato & basil soup, and shakshuka.
@mockingbird
About the season premiere: it also has to be said that Sunburst is an adorable nerd, and needs more screentime.
Dictionaries are actually excellent places to get definitions of things. How they are used, how they are used historically, how they have evolved and changed. But they have been descriptive focused for years now. (The days of explicitly political dictionaries are mostly done.)
But yes, the lexical definitions are never going to be the entirety, especially once you get into jargon, political redefinition, and activist movements. As imaginary petal writes, they are the short form understanding of the thing – the general sense, which is almost never enough once you get into philosophical concepts, ideologies, and such.
That doesn’t mean they are *wrong*, though. That means they are what most people understand when you say the word. It’s why all these “the real definition” fights are so frustrating. Very often both sides are correct – the term is used in more than one way. You don’t get anywhere insisting yours is the “real” one, you only can discuss it as more relevant or more useful or sometimes even just the one that is at stake in the conversation.
TL;DR – Dictionaries are great, but when you are using a stipulative definition instead of a lexical one, you need to get everyone on board with that.
Unrelated to anything: My fire alarm keeps going off (there’s no fire, it’s just full of cobwebs) and the little tab to open it snapped off. Which means I just have to put up with BEEP BEEP FUCKING BEEP until the maintenance guys wake up in four hours.
*@!*$%$^@&*#*$#!$…
I think I’d apply percussive maintenance to a smoke detector I couldn’t shut up any other way.
Here’s a fun smoke detector story:
http://www.damninteresting.com/smoke-detectors-and-a-radioactive-boyscout/