Today, as CBCNews reports:
Jian Ghomeshi has been acquitted on four counts of sexual assault and one count of choking by an Ontario Court judge who says the “deceptive and manipulative” evidence of the complainants raised a reasonable doubt in the guilt of the former CBC Radio host.
Share your thoughts below. This thread is a NO TROLL/NO MRA etc thread.
An example of what that post about ‘too’ was talking about immediately popped up:
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/fox-news-cuts-away-hillary-clintons-speech-about-isil-complain-shes-too-calm
It’s particularly galling to me that the people laying down the law about how victims ‘should’ and ‘must’ behave in order to be given any credibility are the same people that never have been, may never be, and in some cases couldn’t possibly be in the same situation. And there are certainly plenty of stories out there along the lines of ‘I always thought that in this situation I’d do x, and then suddenly I found myself in it and to my surprise I did y instead.’ A personal less-upsetting and less-damaging example–when I’d talked with a few people who lived in haunted houses I said things like ‘how come you didn’t do x?’ or ‘if it were me I’d have done y’…and then when my own house was haunted I behaved entirely differently to what I’d told these people I would have/they should have done.
I have nothing to add so here’s some cats getting annoyed by puppies.
Damn.
Do they need to torture the victim in order to guarantee the veracity of the victim testimony ? Are we back in the Dark Ages or Renaissance ?
I do not have read the verdict. Are they saying that the testimony of the victim is all false ? Or that just because they can not prove it is all true, they dismiss it by default to all false ? I was thinking that, in justice, if you can not prove at a moment that the testimony is true or false, you have to report the judgement until more proofs allow to decide.
You know, this just reinforces my belief that reporting rape and sexual assault to the police is a waste of time, unless you don’t have any family or friends who are capable of taking matters into their own hands. Vigilante justice is the first and only true justice!
Vigilante justice isn’t justice, it’s vengeance.
That said, the fact that it’s often more readily available to victims of sex crimes than actual justice is pretty fucking terrible.
This is so like the U.K.’s Jimmy Saville scandal… A national Broadcaster (BBC), a superstar “youth” radio/tv presenter who is a known freak… http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/jian-ghomeshi-how-he-got-away-with-it/
@Dr NicolaLuna, @Mish
Thanks. I’m so glad that it’s a long weekend so that I don’t need to face anybody until Sunday.
I feel like my spirit is dying, again.
@Kat
Hello and thank you! It’s nice to see you, too.
Yesterday was a mixed bag. I was deadly calm for a few hours after learning of the verdict then later on something pressed my buttons and I was in a state of anxiety for the rest of the day. I wish I had noticed what set me off. I hadn’t experienced that anxiety for a few years; I recognize it as a response to a sexual assault I experienced about 18 years ago. I didn’t know then what I know now about the shitty way women are treated by the justice system but I decided not to go to the police after giving it careful thought and discussing it with others. I haven’t regretted that decision and now the asshole is dead so that’s the end of that story apart from occasional anxiety/trigger/whatever.
Yesterday I was engaging with a lot of commenters at my local (Canadian) newspaper’s website about the trial outcome. The commentariat there is heavily populated with right-wing, bigoted, anti-feminist men yet, surprisingly, a significant proportion of them said they believed Ghomeshi probably did what he was accused of but supported the judge’s verdict. The one who stands out to me the most as a probable MRA was eminently reasonable in his comments, much to my surprise. That made me feel a little bit hopeful.
It gets depressing to see all the victim-blaming on the internet. I’ve seen way too many assertions that the victims “must” have lied and collaborated on their testimony with each other. Plus there’s that age-old assertion that being accused of rape is far more devastating than being a victim of rape. Yeah.
I can’t write any more about this right now. I’m too sad and angry about how the charming powerful people keep getting away with doing whatever they want.
@runsinbackground : vigilante victim is arguably even worse than what happened here. Not that what happened was something good or even only a bit bad. But vigilante “justice” just end up with dead innocents and a false sense of achievement from thoses who did it.
Vigilante “justice” is what leads to murdered abortion doctors. As much as the legal system is in tatters it’s best to stick with that route.
@FriendlyFyre
That explains so much. I’ve seen a lot of those arguments (e.g. “She still kept in contact with him, that means she wasn’t raped”), but I never knew how to address them.
Thanks for the enlightening read.
I haven’t really been able to grapple with this verdict or its Canadian and global implications yet. There’s just this pain in my chest.
Survivors: I stand with you. I believe you.
That remind me of the questionable content of today.
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3185
It’s not on thoses horrible verdict, but it nonetheless drive the point home we can’t sit on your ass saying it will be better in twenty year (or do vigilante justice). We actually ahve to spread the awareness. and fight for this to be recognized.
You have very accurately described my typical reaction as well (although in my case it’s Celexa that has its limits).
Full disclosure, I was once put in this position when I was abducted by a sexual predator and had to take matters into my own hands, so I’ve pondered this a lot since then. I have to agree with others here, it is a very problematic proposition.
Let’s think this through. Just for the sake of argument let’s assume that the target party is as guilty as sin. Vigilantism still puts a lot of pressure and risk onto the victim, and basically would force them to become like violent predators themselves.
1. A sexual predator will act again if they have the opportunity, and if they are able to recover from a beating they will simply be better prepared next time. If one is going to take the law into their own hands, there is no halfway about it.
One of the things that I’ve agonized over since this incident was that by not taking this person’s life that probably the only lesson this person learned was to bring a gun next time, making it all but impossible for the next person to defend themselves and escape like I did. It is a very difficult thing to grapple with, to regret not being a murderer. As a self preservation mechanism, part of my PTSD complex has been to erode this inhibition against killing and prime me to be far more aggressive. As a day-to-day thing, this is a nightmare to deal with and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone else.
2. Vigilantism can make the person seeking justice subject to prosecution themselves, especially if the retribution was premeditated after the fact. Enlisting the help of others to target a person is bringing in a lot of loose ends and even friends and family of rape victims tend not to believe them, and will more likely than not result in a charge of conspiracy, so in this route victim would feel compelled to act alone and not tell anyone about their assault in order to hide possible motive.
But in order to make sure you could effectively act in self defense in the moment you would basically have to be armed to the teeth to act at any given time. Then the problem is, how is it not going to appear premeditated if one came prepared?
I highly doubt that MRA’s who say the victim is responsible for their own safety would actually be comfortable if it became the norm for women to go on dates equipped like serial killers and would probably scream for their blood if a rapist (I’m sorry, alleged rapist) was killed.
3. So let’s say you’ve done the deed and have a dead body on your hands. Now what? Do you call the police and put yourself in the hands of the courts, or do you hide it and try to get on with your life? Is this going to result in pressuring women to have contingency plans to get rid of evidence?
While it sounds all great and empowering on the surface, when you think it through it really is no better than victim blaming, puts the wronged person in a huge dilemma and would ask them to take on more trauma. Acts of violence are just as damaging to the aggressor as they are to the victim, perhaps even moreso for the worse. Trust me on that.
Sorry to go kind off OT but I witnessed something very common and upsetting last night.
My dog has an upset stomach so he woke me up at 3:35 am. I took him out and the streets were dead silent. After a while I saw a couple (?) and the guy was physically blocking the woman’s way. It looked awkward, but then it turned violent. He started grabbing and pulling her while she was trying to get away from him. He even had her in what looked like a choke hold. She started screaming “I’m going home! I’m going home!”
I had red rage, having been in that situation myself. The guy was small and scrawny so according to my quick calculations I was The Hulk and the dog was a direwolf and this guy was breakfast. I walked up to them and asked the woman if she was ok. She couldn’t have been older than 19. She said “HE is not ok!” and then this guy noticed me (his back had been turned to me). I said to him “Howabout you didn’t manhandle people?” and he just gave me this innocuous “I didn’t do nuffin” look. Then the woman said “That’s exactly what I told him!”
They then stumbled on, both heavily drunk but I followed the situation from a distance. When he thought he was out of my sight he started grabbing her again in a violent way. Luckily I saw her stop at an apartment block and heard her call someone to come open the door. Even luckier, person who came was a big dude so I knew I could go home peacefully.
This sort of thing has happened to me, in front of MANY people and no one stepped up. No one. That’s why my head was filled with so much rage. Do guys not understand we are physically threatened in this world? That this shit is not ok, it’s scary as hell? If a person wants to go home, they are going home. I can’t imagine this arsehole choke-holding his bros if they decide to go home to sleep. Why is it ok to do to a woman?
Gahh. Still, sorry for the offtopic but just needed to vent.
Anon,
You make some great points. I’m sorry you had to go through that, but thank you for sharing your story here.
On a bit of a lighter note, but still on the vigilante justice subject; I’ve been pondering whether or not the movie Hard Candy is a feminist horror movie.
It is about a 14 year old girl taking vengeance on an internet predator. He thinks he’s lured her over to his home, but it’s really the other way around.
The perv is a handsome and well known photographer. He’s not the stereotype of a rapist/child molester normally found in the media. It’s more reflective of real life. There’s absolutely no victim blaming or slut shaming towards his victims. His desire to prey on girls is never once portrayed as understandable. There’s not a trace of rape culture in the writing, and that is rare.
These are the points for it being a feminist movie. And that’s the way I lean.
But, there’s a but! The vigilantism is portrayed in a 100% positive light. Without giving too much away for those who haven’t seen it yet, our protagonist goes to extremes. There isn’t really any gore, but there is a scene where something gory happens just off screen. Her mission is not just to kill him. It’s to humiliate and torture him, and then kill him. The one flaw in the movie IMO is that it never really grapples with the morality of vigilante justice.
To me, violence isn’t feminist. So that’s a point against it being a feminist.
Ultimately, I come down on the side of calling it feminist because it’s a horror movie. Horror movies tend to have violence and I don’t think a whole genre should be off limits to feminist filmmakers.
Anyone have thoughts? Or am I just teal deering into the wind. I know there are more important things than old movies being discussed here.
@ WwTH
I’ve seen Hard Candy, and I don’t know that I saw Haley’s actions as being portrayed in a 100% positive light. I saw it as a story of two predators: a man who preys on children and a girl (who, as Haley says, may not even be 14) who preys on molesters. The movie does have some great feminists points, such as pointing out that the adult always has the responsibility to maintain boundaries when a child is trying to cross them, or that just because a girl has a “woman’s body” doesn’t mean she’s ready to do all the things a legal adult can do. But I can’t see Haley as a feminist hero. I see her as the kind of character who is a response to rape culture.
@WWTH
I’ve not been calling Hard Candy a feminist movie because of the reasons you brought up. It’s a great film but it’s more like a “revenge horror” and it lacks feminist narrative. Black Rock is a symbolic feminist movie, with women trying to survive men. I mean, these are army guys with guns looking to kill women who are naked, trying to protect themselves with sticks.
Hard Candy is kind of like violent vindication over sexual abuse, but it is a bit of a “guilty pleasure” watch more than it is a genuinely feminist movie.
@ Leda
Totally OT here, but is that a Black Books icon I see next to your name?
@VP
It totally is Mr. Black.
@ Leda
Who is on the phone and has no time for customers who buy books to match the couch.
I have a lot of experience in this case as a former victim and now, advocate for abused women and their children. When I left my husband after 3 days of forcible confinement and a nearly miraculous escape with my life in tact, I begged police to drop the charges against him. I pleaded with the detective in charge of my case to understand that it was all my fault and he didn’t deserve to go to prison.
For as long as I live I will never forget the detective telling me “You have no idea how brainwashed you are right now. When you wake up out of this in six months or so, you’re going to be so angry with yourself.” He couldn’t know how right he was and its been ten years now and I’m still mad. I don’t know who that woman was – begging for her career criminal ex husband who had beaten her, threatened her, stolen every penny, and every shred of self-confidence and dignity she had. I can’t believe that was me. Even now, I barely recognize that strong, feminist me became a victim of domestic violence pleading for a man who had done this countless times before and would go on to escape more charges against another woman who also begged police not to charge him. To this day, he has been arrested 8 times – 6 on violent charges against women partners but convicted 0 times. He is likely beating a woman as I type this….I frequently text with two other women he assaulted and if he is ever in another court, I would be worried to have those texts used to support a defence that we colluded to have him charged by yet another woman. We have, in jest and morbid fantasy, plotted many schemes that could be badly interpreted and why we often insert “joke” to avoid any question that we have done more than joke in text for therapeutic reasons.
I totally understand how and why the women behaved as they did. I can’t believe we are still assessing the validity of the crime based on events that happen in its wake – events that were it not for the crime, would have ever occurred in the first place.
Having said that, I also have some small measure of hope. The conversations that are happening on social media are sometimes horrificly negative toward women but, there are so many more people talking about how the judge was an idiot or how just because he isn’t legally guilty doesn’t mean he isn’t guilty of what he stood accused of…We are further discussing consent and victim blaming and raising the social consciousness of the masses in some small ways that indicate real progress to me. This blog and these comments truly give me hope that the tide is turning…..painfully slowly…..but just a few short years ago, this case never would have seen the light of day. People tried to protect Jian since day one and though he will not suffer legally or go off to jail, he is in no way exonerated.