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Super Tuesday 2: Open Thread Boogaloo

Roughly 50% of these people will be the next president of the United States
Roughly 50% of these people will be the next president of the United States

Today’s another big political day here in the US — lots of primaries, including some that look like they’ll be pretty close. So have a thread to talk politics. Feel free to keep discussing Der Trump in the Trump threads, or here, it’s all good. And feel free to discuss non-US politics here as well. But please, no one use the phrase “Feel the Bern.”

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Aris Boch
Aris Boch
4 years ago

@weirdtreehugger

It always cracks me up when men who aren’t even USian come in here to mansplain US politics to us.

Ad hominem attack detected.

Damn, the US elections are a total car wreck. The Republican candidates are total loons (and what’s the scariest, Trump is “only” the loudest, not the worst of them), Clinton stumbled into the wrong party and I’m not really optimistic about Sanders’ chances, party-shenanigans or not). Am I ever happy not to carry a US passport in my pocket!! If I’d be a US citizen, I’d flip both off and go third party. The Democrats have to actually do something to deserve votes besides screaming about how bad the Republicans are (and don’t get me wrong, they ARE bad as they are now).

hedin
hedin
4 years ago

@weirwoodtreehugger

You’re so childish and mean, and I don’t really understand why. I really don’t like Clinton, like I didn’t like other Clinton and I don’t like Obama for reasons I’ve explained clearly multiple times, and you do nothing but tear me down and try to put words in my mouth.

I’m sick of every conversation about Clinton and Sanders being turned into one about whether people are unfair to Clinton. I just want to talk about who will be best for the country.

And I really have no use for radicals like you who look for people on your side who you can tear down instead of working together to fight the real enemy. Being accused by someone so petty, self-involved and myopic of being a “smug, condescending asshole” is… well, I guess it’s worth a chuckle, but it’s not worth wasting any more of my time on.

Aris Boch
Aris Boch
4 years ago

@hedin
Relax, s/he’s always like that. Take it with humor.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
4 years ago

@weirwoodtreehugger

You’re so childish and mean,

I’m not WWTH, but I’m imagining WWTH’s response to this and I’m already smiling.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
4 years ago

And I really have no use for radicals like you who look for people on your side who you can tear down instead of working together to fight the real enemy.

http://i.imgur.com/Zqanexd.jpg

… On second thought, that projector might not be big enough.

ultimateprotagonistnerd
ultimateprotagonistnerd
4 years ago

2 things, this skit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3iBb1gvehI

And Second: I might upset some people here by saying this, but I don’t feel like I can trust Hilary Clinton because of several reasons. Her hawkishness on war, her cozying up to Wall Street even after the recession, she won’t reveal the contents of the speeches she gave to them. The Republicans beat the Benghazi thing like it were a dead horse and that can’t be blamed on her, but her god damn emails can be. Not having those on a secure server was a mistake.

That, and her camp is one of the dirtier campaigns out there. (Well, unless we look at the mudslinging from the remainder of the republican candidates like Trumpet and The Zodiac Killer) but they still play by incredibly dirty and dishonest “rules” (http://www.carlbeijer.com/2016/01/how-many-smears-on-sanders-supporters.html)

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
4 years ago

Her hawkishness on war,

Just out of curiosity, what do you have in mind with this phrase? By which I mean, what actual policies of hers are you thinking about here?

Chiomara
Chiomara
4 years ago

I am a bit late to this open thread but I just needed to share these make up tips to make your face great again!

https://youtu.be/xDgy37kPOZ4

Ddog
Ddog
4 years ago

As a non American I don’t know how welcome my opinion might be but since foreign policy of one of the most powerful nations on earth impacts me and people I care a lot about, I guess I have a strong one. I don’t feel it’s my place to comment on cosmetic policy so I bow to greater knowledge on that one (@katz and others have made really good points about Clintons stance vs Sanders on this anyway)

I don’t understand how any of the candidates get called moderate or liberal, the meaning is different I guess as my own country was jointly founded by (and holds as a cultural hero) a man was a communist, a woman who helped run a military uprising and others.

I dislike all the republican candidates, trump in particular is as odious a politician as he was a person when I met him a few years ago. I dislike Clinton because of her foreign policy. It’s why I dislike Obama, disliked Bush, Clinton’s husband and basically all presidents you’ve had. I don’t like Clinton’s war record, and I can’t find it in myself to want someone that supports a country that commits genocide as a leader of one of the most powerful countries on earth. I dislike empires and imperialistic wars and establishments that take part in any of that, so really I have a deep abiding distrust of any person who wants to continue a foreign policy similar to the one that kept my own country captive for hundreds of years.

weirwoodtreehugger
4 years ago

Ddog,
I think that American imperialism is bigger than the presidency. The military industrial complex is so powerful, I think it’s going to take a really big change in the attitudes of the American people. It’s really hard. I wish I knew what to do about it, but I don’t. Democrats are far less likely to take us into outright wars. But the drone warfare and the absurd number of military bases we have all over the world, I just don’t know.

Valentine
Valentine
4 years ago

@wwth
I think you got it spot on with the American imperialism thing. But there is another side to it which is whilst the US has many influence all over the world the general public also don’t know very much about the rest of the world. I know this is a stereotype but it supports the kind of ‘disconnection’ which allow people to support many foreign wars.
This is anecdotes but we had a riding crew of 8 people from US sailing with us last month. They wanted to talk alot about Obama but none of them knew how to correctly pronounce Colon which surprised me since the Us has so much influence in Panama.
Made me think that the US has all these countries that it influence but it goes mainly unnoticed by the general public.

weirwoodtreehugger
4 years ago

Very true. How many Americans think that Africa is a monolithic place, not a large continent with dozens of countries? Or that Iranians are Arabs? It’s pretty damn depressing.

Ddog
Ddog
4 years ago

@weirwoodtreehugger

That’s a good point, I get scared by the tech humans keep producing because as history teaches humanity is never afraid to use devastating military force.

Democrats are definitely the better of the two, I just wish there was more than 2 choices. Wishful thinking I know. Even here in our recent election the votes where basically divided between two almost identical conservative parties even though there where so many options. We likened them to Mr Burns and Mr Burns in his fake moustache.

Edited to note that by conservative I mean by Irish terms, still rather left of what’s considered conservative elsewhere I think. Though the miserable gits still won’t even begin to talk about a referendum on repealing the 8th amendment, abortion rights. Sorry off topic but it’s very upsetting and really a major topic here considering 12 women a day travel to the UK for abortions, and there’s only like 4 million people on the island 😡

katz
4 years ago

I hadn’t been able to quite put my finger on what was bugging me about the whole “Sanders is the only true liberal running” narrative until you perfectly encapsulated it.

Thanks, that’s a big thing that’s bothered me this election season. Like everyone else, I was really excited when Sanders announced he was running because I thought he’d move the conversation in a good direction. But the thing is…I don’t like the direction it’s gone.

I mean, sure, I like that we’re talking about tuition, I like that we’re talking about healthcare, but the social issues have completely dropped off the radar. We’re not talking about abortion. We’re not talking about equal pay. We’re not talking about racial justice. We’re not talking about gun control. And these things are really, really important to me! I want a candidate to finally take gender issues off the back burner and do something about them instead of just giving them lip service! I think this video is totally awesome!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xhjA0RmL8o

Instead, I’ve seen gendered dogwhistles becoming commonplace on the left. A lot of white guys shouting down women and black people and trying to invalidate their opinions. Wanting a female president used to be a progressive goal, but now feminists are expected to prove their cred through their willingness to vote against a female candidate and only consider their positions and not their gender. (Somehow Bernie supporters are never expected to prove that they’re not voting for him because he’s a man.) Who’s pushing the Overton Window on that one?

Not to say that Sanders is deliberately making all that happen or that Clinton would otherwise be talking about everything I want, but this is the direction it’s gone and I’m not happy about it.

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

@skiriki
Kitties? Congratulations!

Kitties make the world go ’round.

Tessa
Tessa
4 years ago

Man o man, they all just keep voting for Trump! I think maybe if every single other republican in the country wasn’t also running for president, somebody could beat him. If you add everybody else up, Trump has fewer delegates than “Not Trump.” I would suggest everybody but 2nd place drop out so “Not Trump” can win, but I really really don’t want evil Piers Morgan to win either. He’s also terrible.

On the democrat side:

Smile. You just had a big night. #PrimaryDay
— Joe Scarborough (@JoeNBC) March 16, 2016

I just don’t have enough palms to bury my face into.

EJ (The Other One)
4 years ago

Off-topic, but this is an open thread so I thought I may as well:

This is an extremely readable, simple treatment of how most people misunderstand economics. It introduces basic concepts and explains how macroeconomics is counterintuitive in some crucial ways, and how it matters.

It’s Keynesian, yes, but then I’m a Keynesian so I don’t see this as a failing.

Tragedy of the Commas
Tragedy of the Commas
4 years ago

@ katz

That was a really excellent blog. Especially good were the points about how Clinton is judged by her husband’s policies and actions, as if we were electing Bill Clinton again. On the right, there’s been a revival of “of course Bill cheated if he had to sleep with that” memes. As well as “if her husband can’t stand her, how can this country” ones. Both of which feed the narratives and double standards you mention in your blog.

@ NickNameNick

Congrats on the new job. I’ve been in a similar place to where you’ve been, so I hope things work out for you.

@ WWTH

You may like this op-ed from The Village Voice. It echoes some of what you’ve been talking about in these political discussions.

Speaking of ideological purity, if anyone here wants to see next level purity politics, there’s always the folks over at the World Socialist Website. They accuse Sanders of not being a genuine socialist. You see, he’s a “pseudo-left appendage” of the elites and he will “sheepdog” his supporters into supporting the Democrat establishment. Yes, that’s really the claim. The Huffington Post blogger writing about this also wrote a blog in support of Trump, calling Trump’s rise “exhilarating”, despite his “ignorance”. Why? For his use of Occupy Wall Street rhetoric. Again, not even joking.

@ a ridiculous comparison

“Ms. Clinton is a woman. We know. A qualified woman. We know. But if you want to make the case that there must absolutely be a woman in the presidency because of The Right Side of History (TM), I’ll make you the same argument for one Marine Le Pen in the French elections scheduled to happen next year.”

In addition to hugseverycat’s point, I want to add another reason to why this is a really bad comparison. I know the user is already banned for being a troll, but there’s so much wrong packed in here.

For those who don’t know, Marine Le Pen is the leader of France’s right-wing, ultra-nationalistic, xenophobic “Eurosceptic” Front National. She’s kind of like Ann Coulter, if Ann Coulter was 10 years younger, a daughter of Rush Limbaugh, and was serving in the House of Representatives. She got the job thanks to nepotism. The Front National doesn’t have much representation in France’s Parliament, but it does have seats in the European Parliament and in regional councils (somewhat akin to Congressional districts here in the US, although they’re regional governments and so not part of the federal government). She’s not a member of the French Parliament, but she is a member of the European one and serves as a Regional Councilor.

One could argue that Le Pen does not have a CV as impressive as Clinton’s. But surely the point of the comparison is to dismiss one woman’s qualifications by saying that one can find another qualified woman. One whose politics are anathema to regular commenters at WHTM. Notice how you really never see a man’s qualifications dismissed like that. Or so casually poo-poo’d by saying “A qualified woman. We know.” Well, if they’re a white man at least. Similar poo-pooing has been made about black people who voted for Obama but wouldn’t support Ben Carson. Representation matters, yeah. But so do policies and ideology. Arguably as much as representation.

It’s a strange absolutist stance to demand of Clinton supporters: will you vote for anyone with a vagina or not? If not then you’re a hypocrite, is the implication. It’s very similar to arguments defending another right-winger on the grounds that he’s a gay man. Therefore, to be truly progressive, you must support anything he says. Well, as has often been said on this site, including by David Futrelle himself: no, that’s not true. Supporting the empowerment of women, for example, does not mean agreeing with everything any woman says ever. You’d end up with a lot of contradictory stances then.

Skiriki
Skiriki
4 years ago

bluecat:

@ Skiriki

Beautiful cats! They are elegant, even as cats go.

Yes! Carisma is quite a ballerina, both in skills (she can turn around in incredibly tight and precarious places) and in build.

First off, my husband swore he’d seen a leopard in our street. It was twilight and his eyesight is quite dodgy, especially in failing light, but he was adamant it wasn’t one of the numerous neighbouring cats we already know. He’s a believer in Alien Big Cats too.

Last night we were watching a QI re-run and there was a mention of Bengal cats with a picture. He said “THAT’s what I saw. See? It exists!” (It’s smaller than he thought but in twilight it’s hard to gauge distance, especially if bits of your retina are disintegrating – it was probably closer than he thought).

Just to be sure, do check out Savannah Cat pics (crossbreeds between servals and domestic moggies), since they are way bigger.

And now your handsome new employers.

It’s a sign!

A sign of what, I wish I knew! 😀

Freemage:

Skiriki: Congrats on the new owners. I mean, pets. (No, I really mean owners….)

Oh yes, I know how the ownership flows for the Furrinati and I’m not gonna buck that trend, I know what’s good for me. (Purrs. Those sweet, sweet purrs are so good for me.)

Kat:

@skiriki
Kitties? Congratulations!

Kitties make the world go ’round.

Thanks! And yes, yes they do. 🙂

They were quite a pain in the butt last night (or in this case, feet, as Didi once again got her foot-biting thing going), but I’m still gonna chalk it up to them getting familiar with the place and exploring everything. Locking them out of bedroom as a “punishment” seemed to take lots of wind out of their miscreant exploration and nomming.

Skiriki
Skiriki
4 years ago

About US politics:

I don’t get to vote (due to being a foreigner), yet the country is dunking it’s presidential rat race to my face, so I’m at least gonna voice my thoughts.

I dread about this development of things, because these days the wind blows from the west, and we’ve already seen in this dinky splat of a country we call Finland how things drift along with the wind.

Our right-wing (of extreme invisible-hand-of-the-market capitalism or racist variety — or both) is busy taking notes to see how to apply talking points and ideas. Nordic ideas of welfare are getting replaced by tough “bootstraps” ideas, which already have been proven not to work. Toxic memes of racist, classist, ablist and sexist variety make their way around, too — although “social justice warrior” doesn’t translate snappily to Finnish and actually looks laughably clunky, instantly revealing the dog whistle. There’s actual pressure to join NATO, which I do not want.

And now, Trumpnado. Holy shit, people. Just holy shit.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
4 years ago

In other cat news:

My cat just fell asleep while cleaning his feet, so he’s hugging his leg with his tiny tongue sticking out. Feel free to use that mental image as brain bleach.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
4 years ago

I spotted this in the comments of the articles posted here, and it’s kind of hilarious:

A few Bernie supporters on Gawker and Slate are claiming that the existence of the BernieBros is an anti-Bernie conspiracy. If I was a meaner person, I’d link them to an article about Bernie himself denouncing the BernieBros… Just so I could sit back and watch them say that Bernie is part of the anti-Bernie conspiracy. And then vanish in a puff of logic.

Ddog
Ddog
4 years ago

@sfhc

It might be the 4 hours sleep I got last night but that logic (as in their lack of it) is making my head go all fuzzy. You have logic puffed my brain ha

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ EJ

Taking advantage of this being an open thread to ask if you saw the most recent “The Sky At Night”?

They chose their favourite top five space photos. One was a rather nice panorama of the Gale Crater on Mars. They’re got an artist to put it together and work very hard because the chief priority was to accurately reproduce “what it would look like if you actually stood there“.

Maggie Pocock agreed that that was the most important factor in space photography.

Couldn’t help but think of you. 🙂

Tragedy of the Commas
Tragedy of the Commas
4 years ago

So what do others here think about Obama’s nomination of Merrick Garland to the Supreme Court? The BBC has a profile of his history as a judge that’s worth reading.

Makroth
Makroth
4 years ago

Republicans will probably fight to appoint another judge that is just as heinous as Scalia.

Freemage
Freemage
4 years ago

katz: Loved the blog piece on the inherent sexism of so much of the crap that gets hurled at Clinton. I do have one question, though:

“Democrats have allowed the Sanders campaign to define the Democratic primary as a purity test specifically along the axes he promotes most strongly, casting him as an ironclad progressive and Clinton as inherently questionable and needing to prove herself. Issues where Clinton leans right (foreign policy) are taken as proof that she’s not a real progressive, while issues where she’s left of Sanders (women’s rights) are ignored; meanwhile, issues where Sanders leans left (economic policy) are taken as proof positive of his progressive credentials while issues where he is right of Clinton (gun control) are ignored.”

I’m aware of Bernie’s gun-control positions, and the problems with them. But is he really to the right of Hillary on women’s rights? I did some checking, and he’s getting 100% on his voting record from feminist groups, and I’m not finding anything that would give me pause, there. He’s definitely as far to the left as I think it’s possible to be on the abortion/contraception issue, specifically, and has been a staunch supporter of VAWA. He even has backed an updated ERA.

(Note: This isn’t to say that Hillary wouldn’t be a more vocal advocate for the feminist position. I think it’s likely that she would, simply because Bernie is hyperfocused on his pet cause of economic justice. And that’s a fair critique [which can be applied to many of his followers as well, sadly]. But I don’t see him signing a bill on these issues that Hillary would veto, for instance, or appointing a SCOTUS justice who would allow further erosion of Roe v. Wade.)

EJ (The Other One)
4 years ago

@Alan:
I didn’t see it, no. That sounds amazing. I don’t really get the chance to watch any TV nowadays. Dr Aderin-Pocock is such a badass figure and I love her to pieces.

If I may, I’d like to canvas the opinions of the commenters on the matter of visible-light versus false-colour images. Please feel free to weigh in even if you don’t know anything about astro – your opinion is, if anything, even more useful.

This is the Horsehead Nebula, as seen from Chile.

http://cdn.spacetelescope.org/archives/images/screen/heic1307b.jpg
(Picture courtesy of European Space Agency.)

To the right is the visible-light image of the nebula, how it would look “if you were there.” It’s been ‘shopped to enhance the visibility, otherwise it would be a black shape against a not-quite-black background, but is otherwise human-eyeball-vision.

To the left is a false-colour image of the same nebula. We’ve coloured it in order to make the interesting bits visible: by looking at the colour you can see how hot the different parts are and what they’re made of. This is not how anyone, except possibly robots, would see it.

Which of the two is a cooler image?

katz
4 years ago

Glad you guys liked my post. And that list is only the double standards that specifically have to do with her being untrustworthy. I didn’t even mention any of the other double standards, like her being too old, shouting or not smiling, the splaining and delegitimizing of her mostly-female supporters, the constant harassment of her on social media, the torturing of language, logic, and facts to say she’s a conservative/Reagan Republican/has the same positions as Trump so she can be excluded from the progressive treehouse…I could go on pretty much ad infinitum.

I’m aware of Bernie’s gun-control positions, and the problems with them. But is he really to the right of Hillary on women’s rights? I did some checking, and he’s getting 100% on his voting record from feminist groups, and I’m not finding anything that would give me pause, there. He’s definitely as far to the left as I think it’s possible to be on the abortion/contraception issue, specifically, and has been a staunch supporter of VAWA. He even has backed an updated ERA.

(Note: This isn’t to say that Hillary wouldn’t be a more vocal advocate for the feminist position. I think it’s likely that she would, simply because Bernie is hyperfocused on his pet cause of economic justice. And that’s a fair critique [which can be applied to many of his followers as well, sadly]. But I don’t see him signing a bill on these issues that Hillary would veto, for instance, or appointing a SCOTUS justice who would allow further erosion of Roe v. Wade.)

It depends on how you look at politics, but I consider someone more active on an issue to be more progressive than someone who isn’t. So Bernie has voted for women’s rights when it comes up, but Hillary spearheaded the Women in Public Service Project, as just one example. So I’d count Bernie as not being against women’s rights, while I’d count Hillary as being actively for women’s rights.

In cases like Roe v. Wade, it would wash out the same. But when it comes to making further progress, it might make a huge difference.

(But yes, that’s much more subjective than some of the issues where they’ve consistently stated different positions.)

katz
4 years ago

If I may, I’d like to canvas the opinions of the commenters on the matter of visible-light versus false-colour images.

True color always. True color until the day I die.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ EJ

Dr Aderin-Pocock is such a badass figure and I love her to pieces.

I thought it would be impossible to replace Patrick Moore; but she’s amazing. That combination of super intelligence, enthusiasm and other wordly eccentricity. She’s also an actual rocket scientist (if you count MOD missile research, which I do).

The programme is on iPlayer. I highly recommend it. Your point cropped up in relation to an amazing picture of the Saturnian system. That too was ‘real life’ but the chap explained how sometimes they tweak them for research purposes. They also had a picture of the sun in far UV and demonstrated how taking pics at different wavelengths helps better understand “space weather”.

As to your survey, I actually like the pic on the right because it looks more like a horse.

(Of course Asimov fans will know the nebula is named for its discoverer, Horace Hedd)

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ Katz

Have you seen any of that “The People vs OJ Simpson” thing? The fourth episode deals with the feedback Marsha Clarke got about her ‘image’ (“optics” is a theme they keep coming back to) and it reminded me a lot of the crap Hilary gets.

katz
4 years ago

As to your survey, I actually like the pic on the right because it looks more like a horse.

Except they ran out of clay before they got to the important parts. Like the parts that help you move.

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

@EJ
I always like it when they show both versions, but I typically find the false-color images more interesting. It depends on what we’re looking at, though.

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

Also, since this is an open thread, did everyone hear that the guy who set up the phishing scam that captured the celeb info that was used to steal nudes has pleaded guilty? http://variety.com/2016/digital/news/jennifer-lawrence-nude-photo-hacker-guilty-plea-1201731487/

Freemage
Freemage
4 years ago

I like both, EJ, especially since the ‘enhanced’ version is based on something specific (temperature), which is something that can be included in the caption. If forced to pick one, I’d go with true color, but the other is definitely not without merit.

Tragedy of the Commas
Tragedy of the Commas
4 years ago

@ kupo

I did. My only thought is: good. I’m glad he’s going to prison.

@ Alan

Speaking of Clark, you might like this essay she wrote for Vox: “I prosecuted O.J. Simpson. Here’s what I learned about race and justice in America.”

Vox has had good recaps and analysis of the show. As has Vulture and Complex. But Vanity Fair has probably done the best research about what’s truth and what’s fiction. VF not only explores the themes very well, like the sexism addressed in episode 6, they’ve made Dominick Dunne’s trial coverage available to read again. Also, the Hollywood Reporter has had several interesting interviews with cast and crew members, like John Singleton, and people who were involved in the spectacle originally.

I’m a little obsessed with the show at the moment, yes.

Also, I’m curious. What do you think of the show? I remember what the experience of watching the trial was like as a kid here in America back in 1993. But, as an outsider to American culture, what’s your take on the show?

Freemage
Freemage
4 years ago

kupo: It’s good that he’s going to jail, though I wish it was for longer. My remaining disappointments in the case:

However, according to officials, investigators have not discovered evidence that Collins shared or uploaded the photos he purloined.

If person A steals the photos, and then later those photos are being widely disseminated, doesn’t that make a pretty solid case that he shared or uploaded them to someone?

On a related note:

I really, really wish that they’d gone after Imgur (which I think is owned by Conde Nast) with criminal charges for trafficking in stolen property. (For those who missed this part, the photos, collectively referred to as “The Fappening”, because of course the were, were up on Imgur and other sites for days, long after they’d been leaked, and Imgur benefited greatly from the increased traffic.) Even if they’d gotten a mild slap on the wrist, it still would’ve established the idea of accountability for hosts of this sort of shit.

zyvlyn
zyvlyn
4 years ago

@Tragedy of the Commas

I was a little disappointed by the pick when I first heard about it, because I was hoping for someone younger and more liberal. I’ve warmed considerably to it in the last few hours though and I think it’s a smart move to pick someone so centrist an undeniably qualified if he is sure the Senate will block him no matter what.

Save the young, liberal candidates for Clinton to nominate when she wins.

Also, even if the senate does confirm Garland, replacing Scalia with a true centrist is still a step in the right direction. It’s steady progress, like a move-the-chains play in (American) football.

katz
4 years ago

I respect Obama so, so, so much for attempting to govern no matter how difficult Congress makes it. They’ve said they won’t even consider anyone and he’s nevertheless trying to pick a compromise candidate everyone can agree on.

I’d be happier with someone a lot more liberal, obviously, but I’m a big fan of “thoughtful and qualified.”

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ TOTC

I think I may have mentioned that the show works so well because it’s a pantomime about a really serious subject; as was the trial itself.

I’m fascinated by the show (and I’m not a huge fan of TV generally) as I was fascinated by the trial. I’m not a complete outsider to US culture, and especially not to US legal culture but it was/is still interesting to compare and contrast with English legal culture.

Of course, the Simpson trial was not of itself particularly representative of even US legal culture. It was that bizarre intersection of Race and Celebrity that took it out of the norm.

The thing that stuck in my mind, and I think the show is picking up on, is that Darden and Shenk were the only ‘normal’ lawyers, in the sense that they were the only ones who actually seemed to be trying the case in the standard forensic way (i.e. by presenting the evidence to the jury and arguing based on that). All the other lawyers seemed just to be showboating. But of course, that’s maybe what was needed to win the case.

As it happens I think the verdict was the correct one based on the evidence. It was the prosecution that lost that case though rather than the defence winning it. It was a classic example of ‘over prosecuting’ (with perhaps an element of ‘never try to frame a guilty man’ thrown in) and getting distracted from the real issues.

It’s axiomatic in criminal law that 95% of cases ‘try themselves’. That is to say you merely have to get the evidence in front of the jury and the result is obvious. In a tiny proportion of cases (less than 1%) a brilliant lawyer may be able to turn a losing case into a winning one by skillful advocacy, but it’s far more common for a lawyer to actively lose a case.

The prosecution allowed what could have been a slam dunk DV/murder case to become a referendum on racist policing. They fought the defence on an issue of the defence’s own choosing. They were bound to lose that fight and also in doing so they lost sight of the actual issue of proving Simpson’s guilt.

My favourite ever advocacy tutor (who was an American judge) gave what I think is the best advice any lawyer can receive:

Never miss an opportunity to shut the fuck up

The Simpson prosecutorial team forgot that and handed the case on a plate to the defence.

sparkalipoo
sparkalipoo
4 years ago

@EJ (the other one)

seeing how the republicans are still in control of the legislature after trying to stop any thing from happening, I highly doubt Trump getting the nomination would stop the republicans from being in control of the legislature

sparkalipoo
sparkalipoo
4 years ago

@Vetanarnias

nobody is supporting Clinton solely because she’s a woman. If the general American electorate really were as tired of neoliberalism as you are claiming, we would be looking at a totally different political landscape–it’s laughable to claim that voters are tired of the policies of the candidate that’s winning. Also, at the rate at which the republican party is attacking women rights complaining that “yeah, she’s feminist, but she’s a privileged feminist” is just making the perfect the enemy of the good, like good for you that you have time to worry about that but the rest of us don’t

Skiriki
Skiriki
4 years ago

EJ (The Other One): I prefer the visible light variant, but that’s possibly because it is the version I’ve seen ever since I was a kid interested in astronomy, and the infrared variant is new.

However, Trifid Nebula > all other nebulas.

Discuss.

sparkalipoo
sparkalipoo
4 years ago

@Kayx and zyvlan

the “issues where she’s left of Sanders (women’s rights) are ignored” especially stood out to me because I’ve seen Sanders supporters try to make the argument that Sanders is a better feminist/stronger on women’s rights than Clinton because he addresses income inequality (which apparently is a women’s rights issue) and all Clinton has going for her is being a woman

Also, thank you for pointing out the smear campaign–a lot of people I know have convinced themselves that she’s the media darling on the basis that she was projected to win from the beginning of the race completely forgetting how nasty the media was to her and Chelsea when Bill was president and how that smear campaign in some ways never ended (I’ve been beating my head against the wall trying to get people to remember that)

brooked
brooked
4 years ago

I don’t agree that Garland is only a disappointing compromise. Nominations shouldn’t be judged solely through an ideological purity, Bush the First nominated David Souter based on his strength as a jurist and uncontroversial history, a sort of anti-Bork, and he was a superb addition. Souter was great counterpoint to Scalia’s originalism, which, post-retirement, he scathingly described as “only having a tenuous connection to reality”. I was happy with Obama’s more controversial pick of Sotomayor as well, but Garland could be a fine addition if Senate Republicans should to unexpectedly decide to take an interest in governing this country.

katz
4 years ago

Trifid Nebula? Is that a nebula that looks like a giant venomous plant?

EJ (The Other One)
4 years ago

@Skiriki:
I have to hang my head and admit to not knowing the Trifid Nebula until you referenced it. That’s gorgeous. I can see why you like it. It doesn’t edge out the Crab as my all-time favourite but it definitely comes right up there.