Today’s another big political day here in the US — lots of primaries, including some that look like they’ll be pretty close. So have a thread to talk politics. Feel free to keep discussing Der Trump in the Trump threads, or here, it’s all good. And feel free to discuss non-US politics here as well. But please, no one use the phrase “Feel the Bern.”
Johanna:
If that’s the case, then we sadly have to file her into the queue “not too smart”, since it has been within her reach for five days 😉 😀
Ah what the heck, she is the cuddliest and cutest anyway. And purrs like 18-wheeler idling.
I’d actually love it if Hillary Clinton picked Julian Castro as her running mate. Although winning Texas would be a stretch, I think it would help push it towards becoming a purple state. He’s young, energetic, attractive, and likeable so he makes up for what the pundit types have labelled her flaws. He’s not experienced in national politics, but that doesn’t matter because Clinton ranks high in experience and competence. Plus, he’s non-white Latino so if they won, the racist and misogynist tears would be flowing extra hard.
Admittedly, I haven’t been following his career the last couple of years but I remember him well from the 2012 convention and had the same reaction I had to Obama at the 2004 convention. Which was “there’s a future president.”
Katz: Using foreign to mean European is definitely fraught. I was thinking of EU, Australia, Canada, and Japan. (Plus etc others I am leaving out.) So … Ya. I used an inartful and vague word.
The VP nod is interesting mostly because VT is unlikely to flip.
What the DNC needs is an update of the 50-state strategy. The census is upcoming and I fear it may be too late to really fix the district maps.
Getting a majority Democratic vote only to be a Republican majority Congress angers me greatly.
@Veternias
If by “establishment” you mean the Democratic party, party officials prefer her because Sanders is a terrible Democrat. There is no great mystery or conspiracy behind the party’s support of Clinton.
Honestly, with Trump, I’ve been trying to distance myself from U.S. politics. It leaves me both bitter and weary, plus – given how the Obama administration turned out – I’m cautious in becoming excited over the next Democratic presidential candidate. While I prefer Bernie Sanders to Hillary Clinton, as the latter has a lot of special interests attached to her, I don’t think his administration would cause some massive sea change in how the government is run. There’s always a process attached to policy and that process means most of the loftiest promises remain empty and unfulfilled.
That said: whether it is Bernie or Hillary that wins, we’d have either our first Jewish president or our fist female president and – right after having our first black president – it’s great to simply know that’s possible. It’s certainly preferable to Joseph Lieberman or Carly Fiorina…
As far as non-political stuff…
After a really terrible beginning of the year, with February being one prolonged depressive episode where I spent a good deal of the time in bed due to intense lethargy due to a number of personal factors, things have surprisingly turned around for me.
I had spent the last two years endlessly applying for one job after another, most in walking distance from where I lived, without success and with an increase in rent as well as having a diminishing budget – I applied to a warehouse and delivery position at a furniture store and was hired. Had a wonderful first day and actually looking forward to the next one tomorrow.
I’m glad it happened, because I was pretty much losing all hope at that point. I like where I live and the idea of having to move back down to SoCal, in an area that’s basically in the middle of nowhere, to live with my dad was something I dreaded vehemently.
Congrats on the job Nick.
Congrats, Nick!
One thing people don’t really seem to say although someone almost had it earlier with saying that the Tramp supporters are mainly a loud minority, is tjat how many are actually old enough to vote. This whole neo fascist just for the lulz stuff strikes me as a trend the same way emo was a trend. Now it’s a bunch of teenagers with twitter and reddit just being yet another counter culture. This is supported by the fact that they don’t even seem to understand the most basic things about the country they live in nor anything at all about the rest of the world. Most couldn’t even tell you the capital of Poland let alone any other forien president apart from their lovely putin.
The same way they have those click bait website fotos of what emos look like now they grew out of it. As soon as these children get left home and into real self support situations their views will change very much and hopefully for the better.
As for Tramp himself I too am scare such a guy will be in charge of nuclear weapons so I hope with all my heart he doesn’t become in power because then the Us is basically fucked.
@brooked
I don’t disagree with The Atlantic’s assessment. But the Democratic Party should realize — just as the Republicans are realizing with Trump — that old party loyalties and yellowing IOUs might work internally to their organizations, but that they now mean nothing at best, and are an impediment at worst, to the general population.
Someone who hates the political establishment — and this is what this campaign will be played on — just obtains more respect for Sanders after reading that news report. The party might not like him, might even be right in questioning his loyalty, but it will either have to do with him, or risk losing the presidency, *especially* if Trump obtains the GOP nomination, because both are propelled by the same forces against which Clinton doesn’t stand a chance.
It’s the same reason why Trump (and, initially, Carson) did so well: voters are sick and tired of the establishment. Add to this a weak crop of candidates where the runner-up is a politician (Cruz) who is part of the establishment but thoroughly distrusted by it. The more establishmentarian candidates went nowhere. Jeb Bush is out. Rubio, barring a surprise surge, will probably call it quits after tonight. Kasich seems to play for leverage now, in case of a brokered convention or a splinter party. Ultimately Republicans will go with Trump, and “NeverTrump” will go nowhere, because they prefer to win the White House with Trump than to lose it with anyone else.
I’ve read about talks of a third party led by anti-Trump Republicans. Frankly, I can’t see that happening. They know they’ll just divide the vote and risk giving the White House to the Democrats (which is perhaps their hidden intent that they can’t state openly, just to save face). As for the National Review, it will have nicely painted itself in a corner, making obvious to everyone what a coterie of hacks it has become.
Since the California primary isn’t ’til June, I haven’t got a whole lot to say about politics.
Did go on the spur of the moment to Sac(ramento) Comic-Con so I could have a book signed by Bernie Wrightson (his illustrated version of Frankenstein). I made him smile when I told him I actually ended up selling my freshman college English teacher (who taught Frankenstein as one of the books that semester) on the book for the strength of its art.
Also been trying to figure out what hardware upgrades I’d like for a scanner and trying out the curious and complicated book stitch known as a caterpillar binding.
Congratulations, Nick!
@ Skiriki
Beautiful cats! They are elegant, even as cats go.
How odd, this is the third Bengal cat reference I’ve come across in less than a week.
First off, my husband swore he’d seen a leopard in our street. It was twilight and his eyesight is quite dodgy, especially in failing light, but he was adamant it wasn’t one of the numerous neighbouring cats we already know. He’s a believer in Alien Big Cats too.
Last night we were watching a QI re-run and there was a mention of Bengal cats with a picture. He said “THAT’s what I saw. See? It exists!” (It’s smaller than he thought but in twilight it’s hard to gauge distance, especially if bits of your retina are disintegrating – it was probably closer than he thought).
And now your handsome new employers.
It’s a sign!
@Vetarnias
You lost me the moment you referred to two male candidates by their full names and then called the third, female candidate “Ms. Clinton”. Can we not get trolls around here who at least TRY to hide their sexist biases?
@katz
She’s a center right candidate, in a country where the Republicans have drifted to the far right. She believes in a certain degree of reform to keep the system stable because, unlike Republican far right ideologues, she’s sane. The minimum wage hasn’t been keeping up with inflation and people are destitute, which is bad for the economy. Social security and medicare were pretty uncontroversial until recently, and Obamacare was originally a conservative plan. She’s still consistently supported the prison system, has been a violent hawk in foreign policy, has fought for free trade programs that destroy American jobs and wages.
Few on the left are denying that she’s better than the Republicans, but she’s a wealthy technocrat who believes in small amounts of change to stabilize the system, while essentially preserving the existing power structure. If you talked to an average New York Republican, they’d agree with her on everything — including social issues. Overtly oppressing gays and women isn’t part of the neo-liberal game plan, but they have no gripe with the militarization of police or the growth of the prison system that institutionally oppresses minorities, or with military imperialism abroad.
You can’t overthrow democracies or send orphan children back to the hellish countries you helped ruin, and call yourself a progressive.
Well, I mean, if you say so, but that would mean that pretty much every Democrat in office is “center right”.
Well, yeah? I mean, this is politics? Shouldn’t we care about politics?? As has been pointed out many times, Hillary Clinton is pretty much a normal, regular Democrat. You criticize her feminist credentials, but yeah, Hillary is pretty much a regular feminist. Yes, there is a lot of criticism of her particular brand of feminism but you cannot tell me that her brand of feminism is not very similar to the mainstream brand of feminism.
I mean, I get that y’all apparently don’t like mainstream feminists, or mainstream Democrats, but this isn’t a problem unique to Hillary Clinton. If you hate Hillary, you should probably also hate Obama.
But anyway, it’s not like people are hypocrites for wanting a woman (Hillary Clinton) to be president but not wanting a conservative woman (say, Sarah Palin) to be the same. We’re not one-issue voters, with that issue being “is a woman”. It’s the whole package, and Hillary Clinton’s gender is part of that package. It’s one of her positives and for some people, like me, it’s a big, big positive. Not overwhelmingly big, but pretty damn big. She’s a Democrat, she roughly agrees with me on most issues, and she’s a woman. In my opinion, her negatives do not outweigh these positives, especially when I have serious doubts about Bernie Sanders’ ability to build a coalition to enact his policies.
Whilst reading the election columns and such, I ran across an item that talked about a polling company in Michigan called EPIC-MRA. The president’s name is… Bernie Porn.
My inner twelve-year-old can’t stop snickering.
Skiriki: Congrats on the new owners. I mean, pets. (No, I really mean owners….)
Brooked: Of course, what you quoted/linked to is actually part of the reason American leftists (myself included) have been backing Bernie so hard. We’re tired of the largely centrist* policies of the DNC, and want to do for the Democrats what the Tea Party did for the Republicans–provide an anchor that ensures the party doesn’t continue to ignore us.
***********
*: This bit is for folks who confuse the terms ‘centrist’ with ‘moderate’. Ignore it if you’re already clear on the distinction, and it’s not addressed to anyone in particular, but I do hear the two used interchangeably a lot.
‘Moderate’ is just that. A moderate leftist wants to pull things to a more just and fair society, but is comfortable with a slow and steady progress, focusing most on the areas they feel need the most immediate attention.
‘Centrism’ is not an ideological position at all. It’s a tactical one, mapped out by B. Clinton in the 90s. It’s based on ‘triangulation’. You study the general spectrum on an issue; figure out where the halfway point is, in terms of population, and then you go slightly to the right of it. This gives you a solid majority of the population, even if you’re actually on the ‘minority’ side of the line. Since the GOP can be relied upon to stake out a far-right position, the left has no viable option but to support you in the election. This works great in national elections, and pretty solidly on statewide posts like Governor or Senator. But state legislative posts, House of Rep posts and local positions, not so much.
@loquora
Oh I see. I say things you don’t like, so I’m a troll? I shouldn’t be surprised. This isn’t the first time. (For that matter, each and every one of my posts is stuck in moderation probably because of earlier events here.) Let me just say: I mean every word of what I write. Call me an abject human being if you want, but please do not impugn my honesty.
I’m not a progressive. I’m not a liberal. I’m quite the traditionalist, and would be pretty much to the right — but not of the far-right which is comprised of disgusting individuals with no integrity and abhorrent views. The Redpillers I find disgusting above all, because of their embrace of technological modernity unfettered by any sort of morals. (For that matter, I have written extensively against Gamergate for that very reason.)
I read this blog because I trust Mr. Futrelle’s sources, and I respect his insight. But I must admit I don’t really care for the politics of this site, and that could do without its flippant tone (complemented by the sanctimony lurking in the comments). Mocking things is, I suppose, fine; but in this state of affairs, mockery has become a surrogate for actual opposition. Like how eight years of George W. Bush were spent turning to Stewart and Colbert for guidance (now it’s Noah and Oliver). Like how everyone treated Trump’s campaign as a joke until he got a lead in the polls and started winning primaries. At some point it’s — it’s not a joke anymore. And Trump getting traction from the regular subjects of this blog should indicate that the time for mockery is past. Plus that whole calling Trump “Drumpf” following Oliver’s lead, as some people in this thread have done — mocking his family name even when the name change occurred long before Donald Trump — is highly questionable; yet I haven’t seen anyone here complaining about that, even though it must fall into some -ism or other.
I won’t hide that I never liked Hillary Clinton, but this never had to do with her being a woman. If it had been, say, Elizabeth Warren, I would not have complained. I don’t think anyone is denying that Hillary Clinton would make a competent president. But they sell Hillary Clinton by saying it’s her turn, or worse, that the next president HAS to be a woman. Never mind that I don’t think she stands a chance against Trump. Never mind that a male equivalent to her in all points would have likely been unpalatable to even her current supporters. They sell her on the premise that her time has come; but I don’t think it’s her time. (It might never be her time.) Please don’t persist in pretending that it is without looking at the situation or thinking of the consequences.
I’m not American, and the only reason I bother following this is because of the foreign-policy implications of the election. We know where Hillary Clinton stands: she’s a neoliberal hawk; but anyone sharing a border with a country led by Donald J. Trump (in my case, your northern border) should be damn terrified of the possibilities. And the rest of the world is looking aghast at what is going on in the U.S.
This election is going to be played on the support of the white working class. You still want to go on making grandiose gender plans that may be for naught in November, or you actually want to prevent Trump? I’m not a Bernie Bro, but I think Sanders is the only one who has a chance. If that makes me sexist, I guess I’ll have to live with that.
Well, that’s a rousing condemnation of something no one in this thread has said.
There’s a parallel to the “fake geek girl” phenomenon. Hillary can have virtually identical positions to Obama and other male candidates, but she doesn’t get to be in the progressive treehouse.
I did a little unpacking of the sexist narratives I see at work in the anti-Hillary camp, for anyone who’s interested in that sort of thing.
According to many people from Canada/England (and possibly other European countries), that’s pretty much right. And has been for many, many years.
There’s a reason “socialism” is typically considered a scary word in the US.
She’s not very likeable, but very few politicians are. I feel like Obama is, but that’s pretty rare.
I have a hard time thinking of any others that are likeable; certainly none of the other current candidates are either (though obviously some are worse than others). They’re unctuous (Ted Cruz) or shouty (Bernie) or malevolent (Trump) or whatever, but they’re not likeable.
They really don’t need to be.
It’s like being smart. Sure, it helps, but if they’re not too smart but are savvy enough to listen to the right people and surround themselves with good people, they can do fine anyway. If you don’t believe that, recall that local government is run by pretty average folks and generally gets along okay by hiring expertise when it’s necessary. It doesn’t *always* work well, but most of the time, it’s fine.
@hugseverycat
Yup, that’s what I mean. There’s always a far right scary Republican and a center right Democrat, and progressives are always expected to swallow their loathing and vote for the lesser of two evils.
The Republicans are basically the Khmer Rouge at this point. They destroy infrastructure because they can, and they’re so bent on tactics, they have no sense of strategy. How is Clinton going to do any better than Obama at building coalitions? Her politics are similar, they hate her as much or more, and she’s less skillful as a politician and orator (IMO, at least; it’s not meant as a dig at Clinton, but Obama is a hell of a politician.)
The difference is, Bernie might be able to build a mass movement and increase turnout and activism. The reason we’re losing isn’t the inability to work across the aisle, it’s the fact that too many people who agree with us feel incredibly disenfranchised and skip local elections, which cumulatively mean a lot more than the presidency. Bernie is also pushing hard to the left, which we badly need. The Republicans didn’t make “liberal” a bad word over night — it took years and years of agitation. The Democrats need to start pushing a left wing narrative twice as hard.
@katz
At least part of the reason is that Bernie showed us we can have an actual left wing candidate who isn’t primarily driven by a desire for power. A lot of us started to wake up during Obama’s presidency. I’ve been shouting about his attacks on civil liberties, drone murder campaigns and policy of impunity for the banks for years, and didn’t vote for him in his second run, and some of my progressive friends slowly started to listen. And Hillary has the misfortune to run when we’re starting to wake up. Saying she’s no worse than Obama isn’t making a very convincing case — Obama was an even bigger disappointment than Bill Clinton.
And there’s some pretty good evidence that women actually do better in Democratic primaries overall.
But ultimately, it really doesn’t matter whether people are being fair to Clinton or not. A lot of Clinton supporters act like she deserves to be president, which is absurd. It’s not an achievement award she’s being unfairly deprived of. No one “deserves” it. The only meaningful question for me is whether she’s the best candidate to advocate for the progressive policies this country needs. No matter how hard she tries to reinvent herself as Bernie lite, I’m not convinced.
And if it were an achievement award — if I were voting solely on my perception the sum total value of a life’s work —I’d still take the working class, proudly socialist lifetime radical who has risked his life more than once campaigning for civil rights, over the upper class, occasionally racist and family values-y former Goldwater campaigner whose foreign policy has killed a lot of people, whose law enforcement advocacy has unjustly imprisoned a lot more, and whose banker friends have tanked the economy.
@hedin
I’ve read this claim before yet have never seen these supposed Clinton supporters in the wild. I will continue to search, but I keep running into Clinton supporters who expect her to campaign and get the votes needed to be elected president. Strange.
@Katz
Is that the correct link? I’m just getting a Vulture article about comedy bits.
…So it does. At least I didn’t have anything truly embarrassing open in the other tab.
Here’s the actual post.