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Super Tuesday 2: Open Thread Boogaloo

Roughly 50% of these people will be the next president of the United States
Roughly 50% of these people will be the next president of the United States

Today’s another big political day here in the US — lots of primaries, including some that look like they’ll be pretty close. So have a thread to talk politics. Feel free to keep discussing Der Trump in the Trump threads, or here, it’s all good. And feel free to discuss non-US politics here as well. But please, no one use the phrase “Feel the Bern.”

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iknklast
iknklast
4 years ago

I hope the caption on your picture is right. I hate to think of the alternative.

Miss Andry
4 years ago

Feel the Sand.

Jamesworkshop
Jamesworkshop
4 years ago
maghavan
maghavan
4 years ago

So, I’ve been more inclined to think that Trump is cynically using racial animus than that he is full of racial animus himself.

But when he blamed Bernie for the protesters in Chicago I had to wonder whether he was actually more personally white supremacist than I had thought.

A staple of American Nazi Mythology is that Jews use Black & Brown people as their “muscle” in their war on Whites. So seeing Trump blame the only Jewish candidate for the actions of a largely Black & Brown group of Protesters …. when Hillary is generally winning the Black vote and is much more tied into Chicago politics than Sanders ….. well, now I wonder if that wasn’t a Nazi dogwhistle. I’m not sure that any old regular cynical race-baiter would know that point of Nazi dogma.

Maybe he is a crypto Nazi.

C.S.Strowbridge
C.S.Strowbridge
4 years ago

Sanders could win three of the five states voting today and still end up with substantially less delegates. He could eke out small wins in Illinois, Ohio, and Missouri, but get blown out in North Carolina and especially Florida. Sanders supporters will be extra salty if that happens.

… There’s also a chance Hillary Clinton will win all five states and Sanders will drop out at the end of the night. Heck, even if she gets just over 50% of the delegates tonight, Sanders path to victory gets much harder.

Predictions: Clinton wins Florida by more than 20 points, North Carolina by more than 10, Ohio by less than five. Sanders wins Illinois and Missouri, but by less than 10 points combined.

=====================

On the Republican side, there is a slim, slim, SLIM chance that all four remaining candidates could win at least one state. Kasich appears to be the favorite to win Ohio, but it will likely be close. Cruz could win Missouri and / or North Carolina. Meanwhile, Rubio has a shot at winning his home state of Florida, a really, really small shot.

Trump is first or second in all five states, so he could sweep all five and end the race. Voters will go to him, just because he’s the winner and they want to vote for the winner.

Prediction: Trump wins Illinois, North Carolina, and Florida. Cruz wins Missouri. Kasich wins Ohio. Rubio picks up a handful of delegates, but drops out. Most of his supporters go to Kasich, while Cruz gets a solid chunk of the Anyone But Trump crowd.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
4 years ago

Question to Americans: To what extent is it permissible to hope that Trump wins the nomination, if one believes that it will hasten the disintegration of the Republican party and thus increase the odds of a blue Congress as well as a blue White House?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ EJ

On Newsnight last night they had Daniel Frum and Joe Klein discussing that very point.

Miss Andry
4 years ago

Meanwhile Breitbart News Network’s fawning over Donald Trump has the website circling the drain. The reporter manhandled by a Trump campaign worker resigned, as did Ben Shapiro. The website refused to offer more than a tepid defense of their reporter after the assault and has basically served as Trump’s unofficial Super PAC. Ironic that #Gamergate supporter Milo Yiannopoulos, who loves to talk about ethics and free speech, works at such an ethically challenged website.

Bazia
Bazia
4 years ago

EJ, I’m ready to run the risk that somehow Drumpf will get himself elected, since it is a very small risk and the result of a loss will be as you say. It will be Hillary’s good luck if he’s the nominee. She had bad luck in her last run, going against someone as charismatic as Obama, but there’s a silver lining for US residents — she settled for Secretary of State, which added to already impressive credentials, matured and settled her and made her into one of the best=prepared candidates in US history.

Oh, about the “Drumpf” I saw John Oliver’s comic takedown of Drumpf and at the end he said there was a free app to download that would make every reference to Trump on your computer read “Drumpf”, his family’s original name. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ I enjoy reading the news now.

Skiriki
Skiriki
4 years ago

Since US politics tend to interrupt my day on daily basis, I’m gonna interrupt US politics for a moment:

I HAVE MY KITTIES NOW!

OMG!

KITTIES!

So if you want to follow my kitties AND their day-to-day activities, hop here: https://twitter.com/DidiCarisma

*ahem* Where were we? Oh, politics, carry on. Right now my brain is hijacked by kitties.

Kirbywarp
Kirbywarp
4 years ago

@EJ:

Trump being the nominee flat-out would be terrifying. Just think of all the anti-Hillary hatred churned up in Republicans (and Democrats, to be honest) over the years. Is the anti-Trump stronger than the anti-Hillary? I don’t know if it is.

I’m hoping for a contested convention myself, and that the RNC finds some way to make someone not Trump win. That’d drive Trump to run as an independent, since he would think that the RNC went back on the “deal” they struck at the beginning of the campaign. Then the vote would split.

I don’t know what effect that would have on other elections though…

What a mess.

Makroth
Makroth
4 years ago

Why are so many people so scared of Drumpf winning. He won’t. His supporters sure make themselves look like they are more important than they are. But they’re not the ”silent majority”. They’re the ”loud minority”. There’s plenty of those and they all have an inflated sense of self-worth. I realize i might be downplaying how bad it is, but, personally, i’m more afraid of Drumpf’s followers than i am of him. Do we really have a reason to be afraid of *him*? But maybe i’m misjudging this situation. I’d like to know what you guys think.

Dodom
Dodom
4 years ago

Take my opinion with a grain of salt there, as a Canadian my endorsement to an American candidate is not very weighty:

I find Sanders’ popularity encouraging, if America can grow out of its fear of socialism, it’ll have a lot more room for the kind of policies it needs to get out of reaganomics and other absurdities. Even if he doesn’t ultimately win, he’s reintroduced the left in socially acceptable discourse and that’ll make it easier for the next attempts.

I’m not with Clinton because she’s a Conservative. But I strongly disagree with the notion that she’s the worst possible candidate, and with the crazy conspiracy theories around her. She’s the candidate who won’t change more things than strictly needed, and while I think America could do better than that, it’s far from the worst that could happen. Certainly better than any Republican. She gets support not because of “pussy pass” as so many say or some even less likely conspiracy, but because there is a Democratic conservative faction, a rather large one too. The Conservatives should have a candidate, and she is, at the moment, the only sensible one.

BritterSweet
4 years ago

It might not be too late for at least my state to nominate #IceBearForPresident

…okay, I just wanted to talk about We Bare Bears, which is now one of my new favorite cartoons besides Steven Universe.

Josh
Josh
4 years ago

Personally, I’d vote for Sanders before anyone, but I’d have no problem voting for Hillary if she wins the nomination. Well, I’d have SOME hang ups (I don’t like her very much, basically because she’s a moderate conservative) but I’d take her over anyone the republicans are fielding.

@Makroth

Because everyone laughed when Trump announced his candidacy. They thought it’d be over in a month, but he surged o the top of the polls. So people laughed and said he’d never win any primaries. And lo and behold, he’s got more votes than the next two candidates combined. Underestimating a man who speaks the most base urges of the right wing is a very bad idea. Especially in a country as right wing as America.

hedin
hedin
4 years ago

@Dodom I agree with you mostly, but I’ll have a hard time voting if Hillary gets the nomination. I don’t know if I have it in me to support a candidate who was a party to so much murder abroad, or who helped overthrow a democratically elected leader.

@EJ you can hope anything you want. It’s one of your prerogatives as a non-superbeing who can’t control reality with your mind (apologies if you’re a superbeing who can control reality with your mind.)

Seriously, though. I don’t think he’s any worse than the others from a policy perspective, he’s just scarier and more ridiculous. It’s pretty gratifying to see the Republican establishment falling victim to the irrationality it has been carefully breeding for decades. On the other hand, never underestimate what angry, misguided men with lots of weapons and a narcissistic rage junky leader can do. Be consoled that whether he wins or has the nomination stolen in a contested watchamacallit, the Republican party loses.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
4 years ago

Hillary isn’t a particulary outstanding candidate, but I feel she suffer from mysogyny a lot more than Obama have suffered from being black. I have the persistent feeling that most of what is reproached to her would be a lot better accepted from a man. Where a man would be seen as a leader she is seen as hysterical, and her problems are seen as much worse than for other candidates. At least it’s what seem to appear from critical articles on her.

Kirbywarp
Kirbywarp
4 years ago

@Makroth:

Why are so many people so scared of Drumpf winning. He won’t.

If you had said this earlier in the election cycle, more people would have believed you. As it stands, Trump is currently the leading candidate by delegates. And he’s the clear favorite to win in this latest batch of primaries.

It’s not a question of if someone else will get the 50% needed to secure the nomination, but if Trump can be prevented from getting 50% so that things can go to a contested convention.

Do we really have a reason to be afraid of *him*?

We have no idea what he would actually do if he were to be elected. Personally, I don’t think he knowingly lies. So when he says he’s going to try to change the law around torture so he can torture our enemies, build a wall and threaten war with Mexico to get them to pay for it, try to ban all Muslims from entering the US, take down the ACA and replace it with… something…, institute a terrible tax plan, and take away freedom of speech for his critics, I believe him.

It doesn’t matter if he is able to do all of this or not. Maybe he’s threatening extreme stuff so that the less extreme stuff will be more palatable. It’s still super dangerous for someone like him to be in charge. Maybe all we can hope for, if he were elected, would be that he is impeached fast enough to avoid too much damage.

And if there is anyone in modern politics that that would take advantage of their followers’ offer to form a personal militia, Trump would be that person.

Makroth
Makroth
4 years ago

@Josh Yes, but he only surged to the top of the republican polls. Makes sense. He’s perfect for them. But i think that anyone who isn’t a republican vastly outnumbers the ones that are and they see that party as the massive joke that it is. But do you really think he can win the majority of the votes, even if by tiny fraction? I’m not underestimating his ability to stir people up and whip them into a frenzy. In that regard he is dangerous and should be kept an eye on. I just don’t think he’ll become president.

iknklast
iknklast
4 years ago

Makroth – while he has surged to the top only of the Republican polls, there is a very real risk – Hillary wins the nomination, and Bernie supporters stay home. There is at least a contingent of Bernie voters who are unwilling to consider casting a vote for Hillary (who is, yes, a flawed candidate – so are they all, including Bernie, who is good, but not perfect). Democratic apathy has thrown elections the other way in the past. Trump will have to be terrible enough to persuade those voters to overlook their extreme distaste for Hillary. (Will Hillary voters vote if Bernie gets the nod? Most of the ones I’ve talked to say yes, but I haven’t talked to everyone).

As for Trump being scary – yes. But as far as presidents go, Cruz seems to me to be much, much worse. He doesn’t sound as bad because he doesn’t sink to the vulgar the way Trump does. But his ideas are horrifying, and he has demonstrated his ability to cause trouble. It was partially his temper tantrum over the budget that closed down the government, causing our credit rating to drop. He hates the government, and wants to kill it off – except, of course, for the military. Oh, and prayer in schools – enforced prayer. Bring Jesus back to government. Make us a Christian nation – one with a government obsessed with the biggest bombs money can buy.

The key is, Donald will never get the Mexicans to pay for a wall. It’s doubtful he can get Americans to pay for the kind of wall he wants. But Cruz can probably get many of the things he wants, including the massive military build up, the tax cuts (so the military may be the only thing we can afford), and the end of Social Security. He could also remake the Supreme Court in his image, which could lead to some—novel—-interpretations of the First Amendment rights to religious liberty. Religious liberty for Christians; the rest of us get the scraps they allow, and nothing more.

My feeling is that the worst of the Dems is better than the best of the Republicans (who probably dropped out before the race got started when he/she looked at the field of clowns and said no way).

Freemage
Freemage
4 years ago

EJ (The Other One)
March 15, 2016 at 10:12 am
Question to Americans: To what extent is it permissible to hope that Trump wins the nomination, if one believes that it will hasten the disintegration of the Republican party and thus increase the odds of a blue Congress as well as a blue White House?

Before the rallies started hinging on violence, I was actually kinda-sorta in this camp, myself. And that may still be the one bright lining to a Trump nomination, especially since the rank and file GOP candidates down-ticket are too timid to make any sort of ethical stand, even in the face of electoral disaster.

But recent events have made it clear that, the longer Trump is even seen as remotely viable, the more people will be getting hurt. And I’m not quite desperate enough for a Democratic Party Congressional takeover to start talking about ‘acceptable collateral damage’.

Makroth:

I’m not worried about the possibility of a President Trump. I agree, even if he gets the nomination, it’s not going to happen, and would likely tank most of the remotely contested down-ticket races as well. (Trump is poling at 30-40% of Republican voters; this puts him at 15-20% of Americans, which is more people comfortable with his brand of fascism than I’d like, but I can be reasonably certain they aren’t coming to power on a national scale anytime soon.) But as you noted, his followers are being worked into a frenzy that is scary, and he refuses to take any steps to moderate that.

I agree with others who’ve suggested the best-case scenario at this point runs along these lines:

1: Trump gets the plurality, but not the majority, of delegates.
2: He pitches a fit, running third-party.
3: This splits the vote, possibly even down-ticket as he backs a bunch of Tea Party candidates in any race where the GOP candidate is more moderate.

******

An aside: I read a rather persuasive analysis of Trump supporters. Outside the outright racists and other reactionaries, there’s one other group that seems to be drawn to him: conservative seniors and near-seniors. There’s a reason for this (not a good reason, but a comprehensible bad one, at least).

This group wants generally socially conservative policies; even if not actively racist or homophobic, they’d just as soon not have further social change in their lifetime. So they are a bedrock part of the GOP. But over the last few elections, it’s become more and more common for the Republicans to talk about ending or at least slashing Social Security and Medicare. This, of course, is anathema to this same group, since so many of them rely on these programs to maintain their standard of living.

Trump is the only candidate this year to make the ‘right’ noises about Social Security and Medicare–they believe he’ll keep the programs that help out the ‘deserving poor’, as the odious phrase goes. Meanwhile, he’ll cut programs like Medicaid and the ACA, thereby reducing their own tax burden. It’s horribly selfish and short-sighted, of course, but it’s at least, as I said, comprehensible.

AlanSmithee
AlanSmithee
4 years ago

Well, look, maybe this will help clear up some confusion. Here’s the first rule of American politics:

1. No candidate is allowed to run for president who has not been previously vetted by the owners of the two parties.

It should be noted that the owners of the two parties allowed to run candidates are more-or-less the same people. Anyroad, that’s the way it’s been since 1968. No candidate running now, if elected, is going to do more than tinker around the edges of US policy. And that incudes Trump, Bernie, Hillary, Cruz and all the rest.

All else is media circus ratings fodder. Honestly, you’d have more influence over who becomes the next US president by writing Game of Thrones fanfic than you would by voting. It’s a thoroughly rigged and purchased system.

Hedin
Hedin
4 years ago

@iknklast the best of the Republicans was probably Ron Paul. I remember watching the debates and thinking (at least part of the time), “listen to how reasonable he’s being. Why can’t the rest of you be reasonable like Ron Paul?”

The fact that the others can make Ron Paul look reasonable shows how bad the field is.

katz
4 years ago

I don’t suppose there’s any point in telling the “Clinton is a conservative” people that she’s in favor of clean energy, disability rights, gun control, health care reform, unions, gay rights, racial justice, Medicare, Social Security, voting rights, abortion, family leave, a path to citizenship, closing the pay gap, raising the minimum wage, and a boatload of other positions that American conservatives define themselves by their opposition to.

Or that, if Clinton is a conservative, Sanders must be at least 93% of a conservative.

Because if you’re looking for a way to thread the needle to make Clinton a categorically unacceptable candidate, you’ll find a way to redefine your terms until that’s true, even if they become meaningless in the process.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
4 years ago

My parents are expressing the conspiracy theory that Trump is running specifically to give Hillary Clinton the White House. I have no idea where they are getting this – my parents do not come up with this kind of thing on their own. They point to stuff like Trump giving money to Clinton’s last campaign, and going golfing with Bill, etc. The idea is that Bill Clinton talked him into a run during a golf game in order to put the election in the can for Hillary Clinton.

I admit that it’s an entertaining theory. It’s even more entertaining that they seem to waffle between believing this, and actually supporting Trump.

Back to real talk: the fact that Trump is a joke candidate has worked in his favor since the beginning. Media organizations don’t want to entertain him seriously, and they didn’t for the entire summer. That meant Trump got away with basically no coverage that he didn’t make for himself. Trump has many flaws, but an inability to stay in the news on his own terms is not one of them; no primetime news show took a deep and serious look at him and his shockingly thin policy positions until the primaries started, and up until that point he got exactly the coverage he wanted.

Now it’s too late: he already has a coalition amongst disaffected white working-class Republicans who are now impervious to any factual reporting about his ideas. The window for influencing their opinions has closed. He milked his joke status for all it was worth, and this is where it got him.

Johanna
4 years ago

@Skiriki – Beautiful kitties! Are they Bengals? Better be careful, if so. I hear they’re smart enough to steal your credit card and order delivery sushi while you’re at work.

re: politics.

I’m an English expat in the USA and my husband and I are agreed up on the idea that if we end up with a Republican president AND the GOP controlling the legislature, we’re moving to the UK.

Yeah, things are hardly better there – and an international move is neither easy nor cheap – but we can’t bear the idea of our tax dollars supporting the implosion of the USA.

What if there’s a Republican prez and Democrat-controlled Congress? Magic 8 Ball says “Future uncertain, ask again later.”

There’s also the fact that Husband believes there to be more work to be had (in his field) over in Blighty and it takes a “push” AND a “pull” to make a successful migration (especially when you need a visa sponsor). He’s starting the job hunt in three months – just in case…

lightcastle
lightcastle
4 years ago

@Maghavan, I don’t think he was dogwhistling. A number of the protesters brought Bernie signs and lots of Bernie supporters tweeted/posted triumphantly how shutting down the event had been a victory by their movement. There’s no evidence it was coordinated by Sanders, and no official support, and I think it had a lot more to do with grassroots protests drawing on the many protests Chicago has been going through.

But it was the Sanders supporters who identified with it and celebrated it the most, so Trump retaliated there. I don’t think there is deeper meaning.

For people who think Sanders supporters would stay home, I think I saw a recent Guardian poll that had something like 12% of Sanders supporters saying they would stay home if Clinton was the nominee and 8% saying they would vote for Trump if it ended up Clinton Trump. I think the numbers overlap some because I don’t think the stay home question was specifically if it ended up Trump/Clinton, just if it wasn’t Sanders.

lightcastle
lightcastle
4 years ago

@Maghavan, I don’t think he was dogwhistling. A number of the protesters brought Bernie signs and lots of Bernie supporters tweeted/posted triumphantly how shutting down the event had been a victory by their movement. There’s no evidence it was coordinated by Sanders, and no official support, and I think it had a lot more to do with grassroots protests drawing on the many protests Chicago has been going through.

But it was the Sanders supporters who identified with it and celebrated it the most, so Trump retaliated there. I don’t think there is deeper meaning.

For people who think Sanders supporters would stay home, I think I saw a recent Guardian poll that had something like 12% of Sanders supporters saying they would stay home if Clinton was the nominee and 8% saying they would vote for Trump if it ended up Clinton Trump. I think the numbers overlap some because I don’t think the stay home question was specifically if it ended up Trump/Clinton, just if it wasn’t Sanders.

Jeff K
Jeff K
4 years ago

Republican candidates who talk trash about social security benefits just don’t seem to get they are sabotaging themselves by alienating part of their constituency, seniors.

The parties seem to think the American public is supposed to align with their party platforms, when in many cases they align poorly. Here in Michigan there are plenty of union workers who are conservative, and plenty of business leaders who know shutting down the government is “not doing your job”, not some kind of principled stance.

The best leaders know how to make different groups work together, so by that metric I think Clinton would be the best president. Just really wish she wasn’t so ready to thump on the drums of war.

DS
DS
4 years ago

It really upsets me that in my state (Indiana) we don’t get to vote in the primary until May 3. By then, it’s basically decided who will be the candidates. It makes me sick that Trump (Drumpf?) has had such a strong showing, and it saddens me that someone as “meet the new boss, same as the old boss” as Mrs. Clinton is edging out Sanders.

Dodom
Dodom
4 years ago

About the Conservative Clinton thing: it’s because Conservative doesn’t have to equal regressive, or blindly ideological conservative.

Though I think what us pinko canucks call conservative is better known as “moderate” in the US.

OoglyBoggles
OoglyBoggles
4 years ago

I can see upsets as being a thing, 538 polls in Michigan didn’t really earn me that much trust. Now with Trump I’m more worried about the fact that his opponents at this point are pretty much anchors to keep him from being nominee. Cruz is the candidate simply for being second banana and has the backing of GOP funders. Cruz is running out of evengelical states but has the religious right vote locked down somewhat. Rubio and Kasich are so far behind I don’t see either of them being anything other than delegate vacuums meant to keep the remaining delegates away from Trump.

Now it’s entirely possible that the US sees that violent rhetoric and open carry firearms in a public setting is a bad thing, but I fear it’ll take a massacre or two to make them realize that.

Falconer
Falconer
4 years ago

@ooglyboggles

Now it’s entirely possible that the US sees that violent rhetoric and open carry firearms in a public setting is a bad thing, but I fear it’ll take a massacre or two to make them realize that.

There were more mass shootings here in the US last year, than there were days in the year.

Sandy Hook was over three years ago. Twenty dead first-graders didn’t even make a dent.

WeirwoodTreeHugger
WeirwoodTreeHugger
4 years ago

Ideologically, Hillary Clinton is no different than the other Democratic nominees we’ve had since I hit voting age. That would be Obama, Kerry, and Gore. But I have heard a lot more of the Hillary is evil/right wing/unlikable etc stuff about her than I’ve heard about those other candidates. I can’t help but think misogyny plays a big part in that. Even if it’s mostly subconscious.

I say that as more of a Sanders supporter, BTW. But my state had its caucus already so it’s out of my hands. I’ve switched to thinking in terms of the generals more.

I just have to say, a lot of people stayed home during the 2000 election and look at what happened. And the GOP has gotten so much more extreme that Dubya doesn’t seem anywhere near as terrible as I perceived him to be when he was in office.

That’s scary as shit. I will lose some much respect for any left leaning person who doesn’t turn out to the polls and will consider it an almost unforgivable offense if we wind up with a president Trump or Cruz because of it.

I’m not exaggerating at all.

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

Hillary isn’t a particulary outstanding candidate, but I feel she suffer from mysogyny a lot more than Obama have suffered from being black. I have the persistent feeling that most of what is reproached to her would be a lot better accepted from a man. Where a man would be seen as a leader she is seen as hysterical, and her problems are seen as much worse than for other candidates. At least it’s what seem to appear from critical articles on her.

This. This. A thousand times this.

OoglyBoggles
OoglyBoggles
4 years ago

@Falconer

Yeah that’s why I said unlikely.

The animals are in comtrol of the zoo that was the GOP propoganda machine, slowly realizing that the party is not cashing the checks it has been writing out.

@WWTH
I’ll my part to vote. If it’s any consolation no matter which dem candidate wins nominee, they will still win by a far margin, according to the latest polls that give both candidates around +10 vs Trump.

Richard Smith
Richard Smith
4 years ago

Here in Ottawa, the snow’s finally melting away, revealing the snow-preserved grass beside the streets. It seems like so long since there’s been any shade of green that I can’t help but reach out and feel the berm.

katz
4 years ago

There were more mass shootings here in the US last year, than there were days in the year.

Sandy Hook was over three years ago. Twenty dead first-graders didn’t even make a dent.

That’s what I keep thinking about the “What if someone gets killed at a Trump rally?” question. He’ll insist that he had nothing to do with it but also the victim totally deserved it, and also it’s a false flag operation to take away our guns so we need to bring more guns to rallies in order to defend our rights to bring guns to rallies no matter how many people die.

I mean, that’s not even a guess. It’s pretty much a surety.

opium4themasses
opium4themasses
4 years ago

Calling Clinton a conservative in the US context stretches words past their breaking point. I could see from a foreign perspective, but that same perspective would push Sanders into the same column.

I prefer Clinton because she is working to build a Congress that might write laws she will want to sign. I love Sander’s goals but I don’t see him actually building the coalition he needs. His stances are pure as the driven snow, but have about the same chance in hell if Congress isn’t changed.

I feel like Sanders does his best work in Congress pushing the agenda in a better direction while Hillary would work best as President.

Adam Armstrong
Adam Armstrong
4 years ago

It’s been raining for 300 consecutive days here in Seattle.
#FeelTheBerm

That being said, I have seen two generations vote against their own interests. I expect America will never listen to its better angels.

katz
4 years ago

Calling Clinton a conservative in the US context stretches words past their breaking point. I could see from a foreign perspective, but that same perspective would push Sanders into the same column.

Even from a European perspective (using “foreign perspective” to mean European socialism is…fraught; not trying to pick on you in particular, since lots of people have been doing that), surely the most logical way to evaluate American politics is whether they’re trying to move towards a European-style socialist model (liberal) or away from it (conservative).

In general, the terms “liberal” and “conservative” are only useful if you use them to mean “advocating social progress as compared to the baseline of this society” or “rolling back social progress as compared to the baseline of this society.” Direction and relative position are meaningful; “objective” position not keyed to the actual political climate is ultimately meaningless.

I feel like Sanders does his best work in Congress pushing the agenda in a better direction while Hillary would work best as President.

Come to think of it, Sanders would be a great VP because one of the key things a VP can do is allow the administration to gradually take stronger positions by espousing positions that the president may not be able to safely take yet (eg, Biden and gay marriage).

Sinkable John
Sinkable John
4 years ago

I’m watching all of this from a european (french, to be more precise) point of view, and let me just say… We on this here old continent are freaking scared of a President Trump. We used to joke around about America being even further to the right than our own wildest assholes (nevermind that we had Hitler, Franco and Mussolini), but then it stopped being funny when that haircut started showing around at the top of every damn poll.

Then again I may just be a misandrist beta male far-leftist polyamorous person (or basically just French, heh).

brooked
brooked
4 years ago

Sanders can win Illinois, Ohio and Missouri, they’re open primaries in states somewhat similar to Michigan.

In Ohio, Sanders aided by the fact that moderate Democrats may cross over and vote for Kasich. Unlike Rubio, he’s quite popular in his home state and it’s an uniquely supercharged anti-Trump vote. In Illinois, the Sanders campaign has chained Clinton to the unpopular Chicago mayor Rahm Emanuel. I think Sanders wins both.

I’m guessing Clinton will win North Carolina and pull out a close victory in Missouri.

I’m very confident Clinton will win Florida by a landslide, it’s a closed primary in a state tailor-made for her. Florida could really bury Sanders, the margin of victory in Florida is the key result of the day.

Skiriki
Skiriki
4 years ago

Johanna:

@Skiriki – Beautiful kitties! Are they Bengals? Better be careful, if so. I hear they’re smart enough to steal your credit card and order delivery sushi while you’re at work.

Yep! They are Bengals, a pair of cousins; I approached the breeder and asked if he had plans for kittens this year, but an adult cat is also OK and he said he has one… but she has also bonded with an another cat, would I take two?

When it comes to smartness, I am not so sure about that. I mean, about my cats being that smart. Carisma picked an empty trashcan (with a swivel lid) as her launching pad, and fell into it as soon as she initiated the jump and looked embarrassed. Didi has problems finding her way around in a three-room apartment, in a sort of absent-minded fashion, “Iiiiiiit is here… somewhere… hold on, why did I want to be here anyway?”

Then again, I am also sure that they are hiding some cunning plans, because they communicate. I swear to Ceiling Cat, they communicate like humans. They chirp, trill, cluck, croak, mewl, screech, groan, cough, creak, mew to each other, using sounds I’ve never heard a normal moggy or Bengal cat make, not even in YT vids. Or in these amounts — or in situations where they do it, like they’re plotting stuff; they have been setting up some sort of living room guerilla guard perimeter, and now prefer to sleep here at night, hidden, as if waiting for something to happen. o_O

Seriously, did I get some alien creatures? Female cat Ghostbusters? Femme Feline Predators? They already have unique sounds they use only when they want to get the attention of a specific human. Significant Otter gets extremely shrill and short mew, twice — !mew!mew! — and I get clusters of three “MEoWm! MEoWm! MEoWm!” which sounds freakishly like “Mom! Mom! Mom!”.

This is terrifyingly awesome, and definitely gives me weird inspirations.

leftwingfox
leftwingfox
4 years ago

I honestly don’t care whether Trump is, in his heart of hearts, as racist as the Klan members supporting him.

All that really matters is that he’s proven that he will drive that bandwagon over anyone and everyone who dares to challenge him.

It was the same with Ann Coulter: whether she was a con woman or a true believer was irrelevant once it became obvious that she wasn’t willing to apply the brakes when things started to get out of hand.

Skiriki
Skiriki
4 years ago

…and Didi just appeared out of nowhere next to me by the desk, gave a reassuring trill and headbutt, accepted couple of scritchies, stealthed off, vanished who knows where, and then re-emerged from her hiding place under the gaming table and between the chair, trilled again in a different tone and settled down to watch my back.

I, uh, don’t know what to think of this. At 10:50 pm, one’s imagination easily gets airborne, after all.

Vetarnias
Vetarnias
4 years ago

In no particular order:

-Bernard Sanders is not a socialist. The term does not exist seriously in the US, except as a bogeyman of the right. Sanders is at the most on the fringe of the liberal left, and the most accurate thing we could call him is an atavistic New Dealer. Ironically, this makes him more of a traditionalist than what passes for standard GOP thought. If there is any justice in this world (and there isn’t), he should get the Democratic nomination.

-Ms. Clinton is a woman. We know. A qualified woman. We know. But if you want to make the case that there must absolutely be a woman in the presidency because of The Right Side of History (TM), I’ll make you the same argument for one Marine Le Pen in the French elections scheduled to happen next year. What? That’s fine for Clinton but unacceptable for Marine Le Pen? Because of her politics? If that’s because of that, let’s discuss Ms. Clinton’s politics, which is more of the same establishmentarian neoliberal nonsense that the voters are tired of. A woman who rose to political prominence primarily by being married to a politician. A woman whose upper-class feminism has nothing to do with any sort of decent description of the term. She might know where the party’s bodies are buried, which might be why the establishment is reluctant to get in her way; but if the Democrats were to choose her, they would be making a major tactical mistake.

-Donald Trump will get the nomination, then will likely be president. Not because he makes convincing argument for himself, but because his opponents all make all his arguments for him, Left and Right. Like Salon resorting to name-calling instead of trying to dissuade Trump’s voters for one. Like the National Review saying the white working class might as well go die in a gutter, then wondering why they won’t vote for Ted Cruz as they were told to do. Sanders has a much better chance against Trump because 1) he, unlike Hillary Clinton, isn’t plutonium to anyone who doesn’t already support him; 2) Trump can make several claims about Clinton that — while they would make him a hypocrite most of the time for chastising her for things he is and does — also happen to be plausible, even true, while he does not have the same leverage over Sanders. To wit, Trump started targeting Sanders and not Clinton: he knows who is more dangerous to him.

Seraph4377
Seraph4377
4 years ago

Come to think of it, Sanders would be a great VP because one of the key things a VP can do is allow the administration to gradually take stronger positions by espousing positions that the president may not be able to safely take yet (eg, Biden and gay marriage).

Hear, hear.

My GF is hoping that whichever one wins the primary takes the other as their running mate. I don’t think Clinton would be willing to do that – I don’t think she’ll put up with this crap anymore if she’s not going for the Grand Prize – but with any luck, Bernie will.

Johanna
4 years ago

@Skiriki

She’s just waiting to see where you leave your wallet. For the sushi.

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