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Trump’s Brownshirts? Trump supporters threaten to take up arms, form militias

This space used to contain a picture of Breitbart "journalist" Milo Yiannopoulos brandishing a gun while holding a Trump banner, but I took it down at the request of the other dude in the picture, known as DJ Pop A Titty Out. Click to see the original pic.
This space used to contain a picture of Breitbart “journalist” Milo Yiannopoulos brandishing a gun while holding a Trump banner, but I took it down at the request of the other dude in the picture, known as DJ Pop A Titty Out. Click pic above to see the original.

This election gets scarier by the day. It seems only a matter of time before someone gets shot. And if there are going to be shots fired, more than a few supporters of Donald Trump want to make sure they’re the ones doing the shooting.

On Twitter, and elsewhere online, Trump supporters are talking openly about bringing guns to political rallies and polling places. Some are actually taking steps to form some kind of Trump militia. 

The living sack of human garbage that is Matt Forney recently Tweeted these suggestions for fellow Trump lovers:

https://twitter.com/basedmattforney/status/708811928664195072

https://twitter.com/basedmattforney/status/708516727190065153

Unfortunately, Forney isn’t the only Trump supporter talking about guns.

https://twitter.com/RobinFoxNews/status/708974116653543425

https://twitter.com/LibrtyGuerrilla/status/709103137030668288

https://twitter.com/AmbikaPadmaloch/status/709142040232071168

https://twitter.com/todstertodd/status/708670247851708417

https://twitter.com/todstertodd/status/708793317178384385

https://twitter.com/todstertodd/status/708791279166038016

Meanwhile, discredited right-wing hack “journalist” Chuck C. Johnson posted the alarming picture below on Facebook, promising to “use the Second [amendment]” against  — that is, to shoot — anyone he think is threatening Trump’s right to free speech , even though he personally supports Ted Cruz.

chuckjohnson

Johnson took the post down, but not before it was screenshotted by Charles Johnson, a non-discredited journalist who unfortunately, and rather confusingly, shares the same first and last name as the dude with the red hair and beard pictured above.

Other Trump supporters think that their candidate needs to have a somewhat more organized army of Second Amendment fetishists to protect him from the “bad people” he talks about so much.

Like, say, a militia.

https://twitter.com/FoxLegChair/status/708520806716837888

Hire them? I’m fairly certain most “militia” members would be happy to do it for free. Earlier this month, in fact, the FBI arrested the co-chair of Veterans for Trump in New Hampshire on an assortment of charges related to his alleged participation in the armed standoff at Bundy Ranch in Nevada in 2014.

But hiring or otherwise working with Bundy’s militia may not be necessary, as Trump may soon have an unofficial militia of his own.

Yesterday, RT.com reports, a new Twitter account announced the formation of something called “The Lion’s Guard,” describing itself as

[a]n informal civilian organization dedicated to protecting the safety and security of innocent, peaceful Trump supporters from violent Far-Left agitators.

While the group would remain unarmed, the organizer pledged, it would  be “willing to forcefully protect people if need be.”

Whoever was behind the Twitter account took it down within hours, citing threats.

But in that brief stretch of time, RT.com reports, the account was able to pick up 500 followers and a good deal of support from other Trump fans on Twitter, including many on the far right who presumably already own the requisite brown shirts and swastika armbands.

https://twitter.com/Third_Position/status/708760325353385984?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

https://twitter.com/DonnyLateNight/status/708741461773295617

https://twitter.com/TrumpLiberals/status/708738364405649408

https://twitter.com/GeorgiaAlpha/status/708738477769289732

https://twitter.com/ConciergeMthly/status/708761117074530306

https://twitter.com/lyz_estrada/status/708753037561438208

Meanwhile, over on clickhate tabloid The Daily Stormer (partially archived here), the regulars are if anything even more enthusiastic about The Lion’s Guard than their counterparts on Twitter — though some of them seem to have forgotten the bit about the group being unarmed.

 

st3 st4 st5 st7

 

On 4chan’s Trump-loving, fascist-friendly /pol/ board (archived here), some are talking about trying to resurrect The Lion’s Guard on their own.

Twitter: twitter.com/realLionsGuard Chat: chatstep.com/#Lions_Guard The Lion's Guard has been recreated to help protect Trump supporters from the violence which has been growing over the past few days. The Lion's Guard is formed to be an unarmed, nonviolent civilian organization dedicated to protecting the safety of peaceful, nonviolent Trump supporters from the far-left, or others who would want to do them harm. The original creator was forced to delete his account due to threats against his children. Therefore, it only makes sense to bring in as many Trump supporters as we can, so not only can we protect people in public and over the internet but we can also protect ourselves

Whether or not The Lion’s Guard is resurrected, by its founder or by sympathetic Trump fans on 4chan or somewhere else, it’s clear that the idea of a “Trump militia” has an appeal to many of the orange-faced demagogue’s fans — and not just Daily Stormer readers posting pictures of a well-armed Pepe.

Writer Sarah Kendzior, who spent many hours with Trump supporters while waiting in line to see The Donald on his recent visit to St. Louis, noted in a piece for the Guardian that

Several Trump fans vowed that the next time, they would come armed. Some warned that if Trump was not chosen by Republicans, a militia would rise up to take him to power.

On Twitter, other Trump fans are making similarly chilling “predictions” and threats.

https://twitter.com/BLang71/status/709123350233280512

https://twitter.com/DXint/status/709151004030341121

Normally, I would dismiss this sort of talk as empty blathering. But this time this talk is attached to a dangerous demagogue who’s managed to rile up a very noisy minority of disaffected white people, millions strong, many of them already heavily armed.

If even a fraction of those people “march on DC” or anywhere else, the results could be bloody. I really hope that things aren’t heading where they seem to be heading, because that’s a very dark place indeed.

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Castaigne
Castaigne
5 years ago

@Victorious Parasol: I’m not sure Milo’s orientation is a factor here, as such. He may not want to have sex with women, but he sure seems fond of belittling and dominating women.

It is interesting to note that he appears to be a homophobic homosexual – and that his own stated reason for “choosing” (his words) to be gay is his distaste for women. (Although he contradicts himself on the whole choosing bit every other statement.)

GreySkye
GreySkye
5 years ago

If Trump’s Militia is called the Lions Guard, does that mean he’s a Lannister?

Also this shit is getting so way out of hand. Chap and I have seriously started having the “Should we buy a gun?” conversation, because the future is starting to look pretty fucking scary for people who aren’t ready to paint themselves orange in solidarity.

As an interracial couple (one of whom’s a filthy immigrant and one’s Mexican American) we already face a bit of crap, if Fuhrer Trump gets in, we’re probably screwed.

WeirwoodTreeHugger
WeirwoodTreeHugger
5 years ago

Just because anti-feminists are cool on 4chan, doesn’t mean they’re considered cool anywhere else.

I don’t know one person out in meatspace who is well liked that rants about SJWs, cuckservatives, or girl cooties in movies, games or atheism. Miserable assholes generally aren’t considered admirable or cool.

rainonyourparade
rainonyourparade
5 years ago

A brownshirt was a Nazi SS that was sent to Hitler’s opponent’s rallies to incite and intimidate the speakers and audience. The only people doing that today are Bernie Sanders supporters, so I would suggest staying away from the whole Nazi comparison thing.

Fabe
Fabe
5 years ago

@ M

Meanwhile the only shots fired were by a anti-Trump person violently protesting a Trump Rally. That person also happens to be black.

Now isn’t that strange?

You got anything to back that claim up? so far almost every one else here has posted links that support the fact the Trump supporters are violent so its only fair that you post evidence to support your that non-trump supporters are using violence as well

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

Who Are the protesters holding the rally’s against him? It almost seems to just play into his hands as others have pointed out.

From what I have read + what I can infer from knowing how this works, the protesters did not shut down Trump’s rally in any respect. Trump is just saying that in order to cast them in a bad light. There were a lot of protesters there, and his usual MO of having them tossed out would have taken a lot of time and required a lot of interruptions to his speech. There may have also been more violence against them, which even Trump knows doesn’t look good for him. His decision to cancel the rally rather than put up with interruptions and perhaps more violence from his supporters makes perfect sense.

Who are the protesters? People who don’t want it to look like everyone loves Trump. It’s not only protected speech according to the US Bill of Rights, it’s a good idea in general. Let’s not blame them for Trump’s actions.

Also, I’m not American, but am I to understand that people can take guns to a polling station?

Gun laws vary by jurisdiction, which is generally on the state level for this type of thing. Most polling places are in schools or other municipal buildings, and states that allow open carry vary on whether or not people are allowed to carry into governmental structures. IOW, there is no one answer to that question.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
5 years ago

I’m sorry, but this is what I think of when I think of “Lion Guard”:

http://cdn2-www.comingsoon.net/assets/uploads/2015/08/the-lion-guard-disney-channel.jpg

They’re brave, strong, fierce, and keen, unlike the Annoying Orange’s “Lion Guard”.

@m

Meanwhile the only shots fired were by a anti-Trump person violently protesting a Trump Rally. That person also happens to be black.

That was one guy firing a MAC-10 into the air to celebrate, after the rally had already been cancelled. Idiotic? Sure. Violent? No. He wasn’t shooting at anyone or anything. He probably had the gun with him for self defense, in case Trump supporters tried anything.

Meanwhile, Donald Trump is ACTIVELY encouraging his supporters to commit violence against protestors and reporters. One of his (white) supporters sucker-punched a black protestor, then said “The next time we see him, we may have to kill him”. His own campaign manager assaulted a Breitbart reporter. One of Trump’s Secret Service choked a Time photographer and slammed him to the ground. A Trump Tower security guard punched a protestor in the face at a rally in Manhattan. Several protestors have been literally dragged out of events with the crowd chanting things like “Tase him!”, “Shoot him!” “Seig heil!” and “Light the motherfucker on fire!” Other protestors have been verbally assaulted, called racist names, and had their signs torn in two. Trump himself has said of protestors, “I’d like to punch him in the face”, “Maybe he should have been roughed up”, and (of Black Lives Matter protestors) “These are not people”. He’s also offered to pay the legal fees of anyone who gets prosecuted for assaulting his detractors.

Shall I go on?

Now tell us once again how the protestors are the violent ones.

Now isn’t that strange?

Whoa. Every dog within a five-mile radius suddenly started barking when you typed that.

That IS strange.

hedin
hedin
5 years ago

@EJ

I think you’re right that the left needs to invest in self defence. However, in my opinion any attempt to approach this as single violent individuals would be a mistake: that sort of cult-of-the-lone-hero thinking is stupid when the right do it and would be stupid if we did it. What needs to happen is for collective action to be taken in this regard.

Definitely agree with you there. And one of the biggest problems is that people buy guns to gratify that fantasy. It’s at least one part of what motivates mass shooters, pretty much every time.

The problem, as you rightly identify it, is one of government timidity. Mass political action could well provide benefits here. I don’t know what America’s situation is like so I bow to my American friends here: what is the state of the anti-firearm movement and can it effectively be mobilised?

That’s the thing. The anti-firearm movement is extremely popular, but it has proven almost completely ineffective. Everyone is too scared to anger the NRA. And even when states or cities put in gun control measures, people will either defeat the laws in court, or just go buy their guns in a neighboring state.

If Obama can appoint someone reasonable to the supreme court, it might make a difference in the medium to long term, but right now, there are a lot of angry, unsophisticated and heavily armed thinkers on the other side, who are now regularly inciting violence with impunity. The Planned Parenthood shooting a few months ago was basically incited by the mainstream right.

@GenJones

Don’t forget trying to stop those with money from influencing politics to their advantage by making it rain on politicians and lawmakers, bribery is free speech too.

Ugh, I know! It’s raining free speech in Washington.

@GreySkye

it’s absolutely terrifying. Do you think there’s any way progressives could unite for self defense? I understand your impulse to buy a gun, but I don’t know how much difference that will make independent of collective action. The problem is, the American left is (for good reason, IMO) so invested in gun control, that it’s hard to figure out how to work it.

What do you think should be done? The far right is mobilizing a mob of racist armed goons, while most of the left is like, “take it easy. Let’s elect a moderate and hope cooler heads prevail.” We’ve seen this before, and it didn’t end well. It’s one of the reasons I’m so invested in Sanders. We really need a visionary leader who can appeal to the poor and working class, or I think we’re gonna lose.

Khan
Khan
5 years ago

@Fabe I saw this,

Trump Rally – MAC-10 “Assault Weapon” Fired by Black Lives Matter Protester in Chicago Streets

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
5 years ago

@ Castaigne

In my better moments, I wish he could feel more comfortable with his identity as a gay man. So much of what he says seems to be rooted in self-loathing.

Unfortunately, my better moments seem to be few and far between this month.

Ashara Payne
Ashara Payne
5 years ago

Loving the definition of ‘wingnut’ on rationalwiki. Not seen it used here, though. Is it uncommon or problematic in some way?

bluecat
bluecat
5 years ago

@ moondog

O_o

Good on Aunt Rita, eh? And how fortunate that the gunslinger in question says he was brought up to respect his elders – rather than, say, shooting her (like the guy who shot a waitress dead when she asked him not to smoke in the restaurant..)

A scenario where a self-selected Trump militia shows up, guns on hip, on polling day, primed to look on members of certain demographics as, in the words of der Trumpfer, “the people who are destroying our country”…

It gets ever more alarming.

RosaDeLava - Praying for Sexbots
RosaDeLava - Praying for Sexbots
5 years ago

@GreySkye

If Trump’s Militia is called the Lions Guard, does that mean he’s a Lannister?

Yeah… Remember what he said about his daughter?
Cheap shot, I know.

@Victorious Parasol
Certainly. Though I still wonder what his problem with women is? If it’s not something that just comes with being a reactionary, or if he isn’t doing it just to get more fans, I’ve no idea.

dlouwe
dlouwe
5 years ago

@Ashara Payne

I don’t think the word is strictly problematic, but to me it does signal some ableist connotations. For instance if you read up on it on Wikipedia, many of the sourced definitions and references use ableist language: “mentally deranged”, “lunatic fringe”, etc.

GenJones
GenJones
5 years ago

@ Fabe

OMG, I just went sniffing around about the claim that shots were fired, and it is absolutely brilliant.

http://bearingarms.com/shots-fired-trump-rally-black-lives-matter-protester-chicago/

The entire thing was based off a grainy video that someone posted on a fake facebook profile that supposedly belonged to a BLM protester named “Jamaal”, then it appeared in a reaction video by some youtuber, thus disseminated and picked up by right wing satellite blogs and sensationalized from there. There were no breaking news stories, no police responding to shots fired, no mention from people who would have actually been there. Seems totally legit, right?

Then as they were furiously grabbing screenshots, the owner of the account revealed himself as a troll who completely fabricated the person and event to prove how utterly gullible and incapable they were at distinguishing reality from obvious bullshit.

But they wanted so badly for it to be real they are doubling down and STILL claiming it actually happened and that this whole “troll” thing is just a cover up, and demanding that the CIA go out there and hunt down this black man for having a firearm, ironically on a 2nd amendment blog.

Not the only fabrication to emerge from the Chicago rally, even a nonexistent body count:
http://www.snopes.com/black-trump-supporter-shot/#

Dalillama
Dalillama
5 years ago

@opposablethumbs

It’s chilling to think that when Trump’s nearest historical parallels were actually in power, the US was on the side fighting against them

Only by a quite thin margin, unfortunately. There was actually a not insignificant probability of things going the other way here.

@SFHC

Isn’t this victim blaming?

Yes. It would be more correct to say that the Democratic Party abandoned the left wing in favor of ‘triangulation’ and a ‘third way’ which, in practice, meant following the Overton window right instead of trying to pull it back leftwards. (Reasons I am not fond of Hillary Clinton, in a nutshell; she is a ‘3rd way’ democrat, which is to say a Reagan era Republican; just because the Republicans have moved on to naked fascism doesn’t make her way a good one).

@hedin

Everyone is too scared to anger the NRA.

It would be more accurate to say that almost all politicians appear unwilling to anger the NRA.

Do you think there’s any way progressives could unite for self defense? I understand your impulse to buy a gun, but I don’t know how much difference that will make independent of collective action.

There’s was a good deal of that against the brownshirts and blackshirts back in the day, but they mostly hadn’t got guns, which made things a bit easier to deal with.

authorialAlchemy
authorialAlchemy
5 years ago

*listens to Handlebars because someone posted it*

Electioneering by Radiohead is a good Donald Trump song, too.

*makes a playlist for the election because why the fuck not and I am a playlist dork*

Electioneering -Radiohead
Handlebars – Flobots
2+2=5 – Radiohead
Take a Bow – Muse
Animals – Muse
Assasin – Muse (how I hope a Trump presidency will end if everything escalates)

I’m taking song suggestions for the Republican party.

Khan
Khan
5 years ago

As an Independent. I have yet to see Trump supporters try to shut down a Clinton or Sanders speech. The only group to shut Sanders down was BLM.

banned@4chan.org
banned@4chan.org
5 years ago

Assasin – Muse (how I hope a Trump presidency will end if everything escalates)

Dude, c’mon.

katz
5 years ago

(Reasons I am not fond of Hillary Clinton, in a nutshell; she is a ‘3rd way’ democrat, which is to say a Reagan era Republican; just because the Republicans have moved on to naked fascism doesn’t make her way a good one).

Oh, for the love of god, this is so stupid as to be in “not even wrong” territory.

Especially since you support the notoriously pro-gun Bernie Sanders. What a total Republican, amirite?

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
5 years ago

@banned

Agreed. I don’t want Trump to get shot, poisoned, strangled, stabbed, drone-struck, or otherwise murdered. I just don’t want him to be president. He can keep being a businessman. I just don’t want him to be president. He can keep on lying about how great a businessman he is. I just don’t want him to be president.

The GOP cultivated a base that made Trump a viable presidential candidate. I wish they’d own up to that (privately – I won’t insist on an apology to the rest of the country) and do what they can to encourage honest debate, working together, and so forth. I’m not holding my breath on any of that. I’m not sure the Republican leadership has the courage to admit any wrongdoing or self-serving behavior, in part because they’ve spent so much time pretending that changing one’s mind in the face of new evidence is “flip-flopping.”

reymohammed
5 years ago

Policy of Madness, there are federal laws prohibiting the intimidation of voters at polling places, which would clearly apply to the open carry of firearms, regardless of state law.

OoglyBoggles
OoglyBoggles
5 years ago

@katz

Oh puh lease

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/hillary-clinton-tells-man-wrongly-convicted-of-murder-that-she-favours-death-penalty-a6930336.html

Half the time your candidate was supporting Goldwater, a segregationist and was against LGBT rights til around it was political suicide to be against it.

Oh how liberal and for the people.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
5 years ago
Redsilkphoenix
Redsilkphoenix
5 years ago

Does anyone have an idea of what Trump is getting out of all this violence at his rallies? Like, is this some sort of fantasy come to life for him (i.e. I have people willing to kill for me — oh happy day!), does he think a stereotypical Third World dictatorship-style rise to power is the best way to retain longterm leadership in the US, or is there something else going on that I’m not seeing?

I mean, his followers have proven they’re willing to do whatever he says, so why continue to escalate the violence last what’s already been done?

OoglyBoggles
OoglyBoggles
5 years ago

@Redsilkphoenix
Basically it lives out his narcissistic fantasies, he’s bought into his own hype decades ago the longer and longer he was made a mockery of in the business world. It tells so much when his own companies went so much richer when he’s NOT in charge by court mandate.

Yeah I don’t buy that idea that he’ll totally roll over and lie down when he isn’t the POTUS. After all this, anyone who expects him to just roll over, how delusional can a person be? Let’s see, what would happen to all those angry people when he isn’t the new president? I honestly wonder if there would be riots and shootings on the streets from this level of rising and violent rhetoric. Who knows, I honestly feel like if this stuff does keep going up, I would like to believe collectively the entire US government and its people will have enough of his bile.

Aris Boch
Aris Boch
5 years ago

@Seraph4377 March 14, 2016 at 10:31 am

The “superdelegate shit” is part of the Democratic Primary, and has been for a long time. Bernie knew about it going in. Frankly, it’s no real surprise that the Democratic superdelegates are mostly voting for the candidate who’s been a Democrat all along, as opposed to the one who joined the party so he could run for president.

What’s more, Hillary is still winning (albeit by a much narrower margin), even without the superdelegates.

Appeal to tradition doesn’t make the superdelegates any less questionable. Why do these primaries at all, if the part big wigs can just override them??

And if you were in a safely Democratic or Republican state, that’s fine and dandy. If you’re in a contested state, that’s a good way to end up with a President Trump.

That kinda thinking lets the Democrats get away with being a carbon copy of the Republicans.

@Scented Fucking Hard Chairs March 14, 2016 at 10:35 am

And why wasn’t Aris Butt banned two years ago?

Disagreeing with you ain’t a bannable offense, so this immature name-calling is the only thing you can do about it right now.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

@Butt

No, but being tedious certainly is, and you were boring me shitless before I even came out of lurkerdom. The same paper-thin false neutrality, golden-mean fallaciousness and desperate “Trolling! Satire!” deflection every. Bloody. Post, and I can’t even give you points for sticking to the schtick for so long, because it’s indistinguishable from the dozens of drive-by one-post wonders we get every thread.

As they say in your world: Git gud or git b&, scrub.

Seraph4377
Seraph4377
5 years ago

Why do these primaries at all, if the part big wigs can just override them??

Because they can’t. Learn what you’re talking about.

That kinda thinking lets the Democrats get away with being a carbon copy of the Republicans.

You actually said that in a thread about how the Republican frontrunner has become a Nazi in all but name.

Thanks for making it so obvious that you’re not to be taken seriously.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

As an Independent.

You’re a bit behind the times there, bro. Republicans too ashamed and/or dishonest to admit that they’re Republicans don’t use “Independent” anymore; they use “Libertarian” or “Free speech advocate/absolutist.”

hedin
hedin
5 years ago

@Dalillama

There’s was a good deal of that against the brownshirts and blackshirts back in the day, but they mostly hadn’t got guns, which made things a bit easier to deal with

Err… apparently not easy enough. Lousy Social Democrats! Seriously, can we all learn our lesson and unite behind the radical leader this time? But of course not, because the Democratic establishment shares more interests with the Republican establishment than with the left. People with money and power are never sufficiently worried about Fascists until it’s too late.

@Redsilkphoenix @Ooglyboggles

To the extent Trump actually has beliefs, they’re probably pretty close to Clinton’s, although he seems like more of a protectionist, and possibly less of a hawk. But yeah, “people are paying attention to me! I am great!” trumps (ahem) all that. And being a jerk to minorities is an easy to get attention from his fellow angry, insecure idiots.

Hashem
Hashem
5 years ago

@Khan

Yes, of course you’re “independent”. It’s just a coincidence that you bitch about those damn protesters bothering poor old Dump, and then you proceed to post a dubious video that has been posted on a channel that has this description:

Mark Dice is a media analyst and author who has been featured on the History Channel’s Decoded, Ancient Aliens, and America’s Book of Secrets; Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura, Secret Societies of Hollywood on E! Channel, America Declassified on the Travel Channel, and is a frequent guest on Coast to Coast AM, The Alex Jones Show, and more.

Truly a reliable source of info if I ever saw one. But please, continue to fight the “good” fight.

Aris Boch
Aris Boch
5 years ago

@Seraph4377 March 14, 2016 at 3:55 pm

You actually said that in a thread about how the Republican frontrunner has become a Nazi in all but name.

Godwin’s law, thread is dead. Hillary is a DINO, anyway.

@Scented Fucking Hard Chairs March 14, 2016 at 3:41 pm
And all that for not only rejecting Trump, but also Hillary? You hate Sanders that much or are you too caught up in the Two Party State (just one party away from the Big Red) to see, always voting for the Democratic Party as the lesser of two evils lets them get lazy and complacent? I’m not neutral here, I reject BOTH.

WeirwoodTreeHugger
WeirwoodTreeHugger
5 years ago

Khan,
Independents vote one way or the other the vast majority of the time. People just like to call themselves independent so they can feel special
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/01/11/independents-outnumber-democrats-and-republicans-but-theyre-not-very-independent/
I can take a wild guess as to which way you lean.

Aris,
Change isn’t going to happen from the top down. If you want a Democratic party that’s more progressive and populist, flouncing from a presidential election isn’t going to do it. Doing everything you can at a local level to get solid progressives in and attending local party meetings is how it’s done. But that takes a lot more effort than throwing your hands up and saying “they’re all the same” doesn’t it?

I once saw a speaker at a political conference (forgot his name unfortunately ) who said “if you don’t do politics, politics will do you.” 10 years later, it’s increasingly clear that he’s right.

I’m not trying to be self righteous, because I should be doing way more activism than I am. But in my experience, the people who say they think both candidates are the same so they won’t even vote at all tend to have never lifted a finger to change things. I’m sick of it.

I should also note that it is not just the presidency being voted on this November. There are senate races in most states, house races in all states, state legislator races in most states, local races in most places, and in many places, referendums. These races are actually more important and affect our lives more than presidential races do. This is another way that staying home on election day ensures that things won’t change. Apathy is just what the Koch brother and Walton and Sheldon Adelson types are delighted to see. It plays right into their hands when we disengage.

I know Aris is kind of trolly and doesn’t listen to anyone, but I’m posting this rant anyway because it’s something people need to hear. Or see in this case.

In fact, I’ll probably copy this rant to my desktop when I get home because I have a feeling that this is a sentiment I’ll need to express many more times in the coming months.

Oh, and did I get affect right, or is it effect? For some reason I have a terrible mental block about which one of those to use.

Seraph4377
Seraph4377
5 years ago

@ Aris – look at the title of the post, you moron.

Chaos-Engineer
Chaos-Engineer
5 years ago

Appeal to tradition doesn’t make the superdelegates any less questionable. Why do these primaries at all, if the part big wigs can just override them??

The people who set up the rules tend to be older, and us old people do love our traditions! Meanwhile, most young people can’t be bothered to show up for a mid-term election (like 2010 and 2014), let alone go to a boring rules committee meeting.

That said, the superdelegate rule makes sense as a safety valve. If the frontrunner’s campaign falls apart in the middle of the primary season, to the point where the voters in the early states are regretting their decision, then the superdelegates have the power to repair the situation.

That kinda thinking lets the Democrats get away with being a carbon copy of the Republicans.

If the Democrats and Republicans were carbon copies of each other the government might have done something in the past 6 years. As it is, it’s been a huge struggle to pass the minimum number of basic continuing resolutions and debt limit extensions to keep the lights on. Complicated stuff like actually passing a real budget or doing immigration reform isn’t in the realm of possibility.

Tim
Tim
5 years ago

It’s good to see women finally earning their own way and not destroying men with entitlements such as alimony and child support.

Good going, non-males. You’ve done yourselves proud.

Saphira
Saphira
5 years ago

People just like to call themselves independent so they can feel special

Some of us actually are fence sitters. I can actually say that until the GOP went totally far-right extreme, I’d vote for about as many GOP candidates as I would democratic, although more on the local level where they tended to be fiscally conservative than the democrats around here who constantly want us to approve bond issues and sales tax raises without sunset clauses. (One just recently passed and we were told it was to raise money for a new courthouse. Now that an extra penny in sales tax is a reality, they’re telling us that a new courthouse was just a “suggestion” and the money will be used however they see fit.)

Now, I’m more of a democrat and vote as such, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to register as such since I’m in a swing state. If national elections are occurring, the phone will never stop ringing. The mailings alone I receive probably equal several extremely large forests’ worth of paper that I just have to pitch because our recycling doesn’t take that slick, cardboard-like stock they use for their political ads.

tricyclist
tricyclist
5 years ago

Second amendment rights – jebus – do these cockwombles not realise that a Government made up of the likes of the Great Orange One and his Jackbooted Orange Padawan are exactly what the second amendment was put in place to protect against?

(ignoring the fact that in the modern world, unless second amendment “right to bear arms” includes “right to bear tanks, cruise missiles and helicopter gunships”, then it is sort of pointless anyway)

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

Policy of Madness, there are federal laws prohibiting the intimidation of voters at polling places, which would clearly apply to the open carry of firearms, regardless of state law.

I certainly wish that was true.

Paul
Paul
5 years ago

All these Trumpeter trolls here are unable to answer one simple point: The only candidate that has incited or condoned political violence by his supporters is Trump. There is ample footage of him doing this at rallies. None of the other candidates have done this. It is also telling that Trump’s supporters pretend not to know the difference between protesting a rival candidate and committing violence against protesters.

loquora
loquora
5 years ago

@WWTH:

Thank you for saying what I wanted to say better than I could have said it. I’m very tired of hearing people who aren’t going to vote unless X happens, because it’s a total cop out.

EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

@tricyclist:
I am told – although I don’t know for certain, I am not an American legal historian – that the Second Amendment was originally formulated to allow slaveowners to raise militias to put down slave insurrections.

If this is true, then it makes one realise that “free” means “not slaves”, and “security” means “not letting our slaves take vengeance for how they’ve been treated.” In this light the second amendment is as shameful in the 21st century as it was in the 18th and needs repeal.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Saphira,
Fair enough. I got caught up in my rant and used overly judgmental language with that special thing. You are kind of proving the point though. Most independents these days are leaning way more to one party or the other. My grandmother always considered herself an independent but from at least 2000 to her death in 2008 she almost always voted for the Democrats. I wonder where this trend had its roots? It could be the Clinton impeachment. Or the groundwork could have been laid as far back as the Reagan administration.

Sorry I made the point in a smug and assholish way though.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

I am told – although I don’t know for certain, I am not an American legal historian – that the Second Amendment was originally formulated to allow slaveowners to raise militias to put down slave insurrections.

I’m sure that’s part of it. I’ve also read that it’s a compromise between the founders who wanted a standing military in peacetime and those who didn’t. With armed militias, there were men ready and trained if there was a need, but without having a big, expensive, perhaps overly powerful military to worry about.

Of course, we ended up with a permanent military anyway. If we had just implemented one in the first place, we might not have to worry about these assholes so much because there wouldn’t be a need to have the 2nd amendment.

I’m not a huge early American history buff, so I could be wrong about this.

guy
guy
5 years ago

@EJ

That is not why, no. The American Revolution was primarily based off local militia forces, and during the Constitutional Convention it was anticipated that state militias would both be important to national defense and a check on tyranny by the federal government. Since the US historically tended to have a small peacetime military, the militia was fairly important. On a closely related note, basically every war the US had been in up to and including WWII opened with a desperate rush to expand the regular army.

The militia as meant in the Constitution is not the Bundy militia but is still extant; it’s presently called the National Guard.

Grace of Spades
Grace of Spades
5 years ago

@authorialAlchemy

*listens to Handlebars because someone posted it*

Electioneering by Radiohead is a good Donald Trump song, too.

*makes a playlist for the election because why the fuck not and I am a playlist dork*

Electioneering -Radiohead
Handlebars – Flobots
2+2=5 – Radiohead
Take a Bow – Muse
Animals – Muse
Assasin – Muse (how I hope a Trump presidency will end if everything escalates)

I’m taking song suggestions for the Republican party.

Right Wing Pigeons from Outer Space – The Dead Milkmen

Bryce
Bryce
5 years ago

Apparently Trump supporters need to have it spelt out to them that political rallies aren’t private events.

Rushing the stage could be seen as an attempt to shut down a candidate’s ability to address supporters.Still it hardly compares with inciting violence in an already angry crowd, something that could very easily have ended with people dead.

Dalillama
Dalillama
5 years ago

@katz
I support Sanders as the least of the available evils. I will also note that he and Clinton have very similar policy positions in re: guns, making that an amusing postion for you to take. (In defence of my argument about Clinton, both of them also have positions that are pretty similar to Reagan’s on guns). I’d like to see a stronger position on gun control, but that’s not going to happen anytime soon, because as I noted to EJ (TOO) in another thread, it’s totally impossible to have a reasonable conversation about gun control in the US right now.

@Victorious Parasol

and do what they can to encourage honest debate, working together, and so forth.

Why would they do that? There’s no percentage in honest debate for them, because their platform is uniformly horrible.
@WWTH

If you want a Democratic party that’s more progressive and populist, flouncing from a presidential election isn’t going to do it. Doing everything you can at a local level to get solid progressives in and attending local party meetings is how it’s done.

It could be argued that the biggest strategic failure of the American Left in recent decades has been trusting the Democratic party. It’s broadly the case that, for the last 40-odd years, the far right has spent their energy getting into the Republican party apparatus and pulling the party further right, while the progressive left has spent much of their energy forming nonprofits & community organizations to directly help people, while leaving it to the Democratic party leadership to get things done on a policy level to support and eventually remove the need for said groups. This is admittedly a heavily simplified sketch of the situation, but is accurate in broad strokes.

@EJ(TOO)

If this is true, then it makes one realise that “free” means “not slaves”, and “security” means “not letting our slaves take vengeance for how they’ve been treated.” In this light the second amendment is as shameful in the 21st century as it was in the 18th and needs repeal.

This was almost certainly an unspoken component of the reasoning, and also what they were mostly used for in practice. As guy points out, we currently have an organization that adequately serves the explicitly stated need for national defence, and were it up to me the National Guard, Air Guard, and Coast Guard would make up the entirety of U.S. military forces.

@OoglyBoggles
Please stop. You’re not helping.

@Aris Bosch
Please just shut up.