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Sorry, manbabies, the real problem with the Ghostbusters reboot isn’t misandry but racism

Oh, wait, wrong ghost movie
Oh, wait, wrong ghost movie

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Today will go down in history as a dark day for manbabykind. For today, the lady Ghostbusters trailer dropped. And there was much wailing and tweeting of tweets.

Let’s take a stroll amongst the wailing manbabies on Twitter, indulging their ridiculous rants.

And then let’s talk about what’s really wrong with the Ghostbusters trailer, which has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with race.

First, the manbabies:

There were those who pulled out the old “my childhood has been raped” nonsense.

https://twitter.com/M_Stewarr/status/705445173568868352

There were those who strenuously insisted that their anger at the female Ghostbusters had nothing whatsoever to do with misogyny, nuh-uh, but was rather a reaction to the trailer’s objective terribleness.

https://twitter.com/katmereMUFC/status/705463502278959108

There were the fat-shamers, because at no point in history has a fat person ever been funny.

https://twitter.com/NerdzurK1/status/705500568035397636

There were Trump fans:

https://twitter.com/easternmney/status/705506566758383618

https://twitter.com/jaesex23/status/705499814415486977

Hell, there were so many Trump fans that one observer made a helpful Venn diagram:

There were even a few Knights Who Say Cuck:

https://twitter.com/kcD___/status/705472132185202688

Some raised the specter of WHITE GENOCIDE:

https://twitter.com/TheSamGrady/status/705434158152224772

https://twitter.com/TheSamGrady/status/705496761662578689

Some worried where the evil feminazis would strike next:

Others offered somewhat less comprehensible critiques:

One Tweeter summed up the day on Twitter with a little haiku:

https://twitter.com/luketunderwood/status/705500826580594688

And another Tweeter left us with this existential question:

https://twitter.com/cleotrav/status/705505847129022464

Still another raised the possibility of a second reboot with a rather different cast:

And this guy helped us put it all in perspective:

https://twitter.com/GregorySantos/status/705462910714183680

So what happens once we step back from all the manbaby whining, and the jokes about the manbaby whining. and actually watch the trailer? Well, be my guest:

I don’t know about you, but I’m a bit underwhelmed.

There are a few funny moments, but the trailer sort of steps on them. It’s hard to tell if this is a terrible trailer for a good film, or if the Ghostbusters reboot will end up being, well, basically a female version of Adam Sandler’s godwful Pixels.

But the really distressing thing that the trailer reveals is that the three white gals in the movie are the scientists, while Leslie Jones’ Patty is relegated — or so it seems from the trailer — to the tired, stereotypical role of sassy black sidekick who may not be educated but who “knows the streets.”

This racial/racist failure has not exactly gone unnoticed; it’s already inspired thinkpieces and polemics on sites ranging from The Root to The Inquisitr, as well as in innumerable Tweets.

The original Ghostbusters, however hallowed it has become, was infamous for a similar racial failure. That movie’s “black ghostbuster,” played by Ernie Hudson, was so forgettable, and so obviously a token, that the designer simply left him off of this recently reworked Ghostbusters poster featuring his three white comrades.

Despite all the complaints by angry manbabies about the gender-swap of the main characters, it may well turn out that the real problem with the film isn’t that it’s too radically different from the original, but rather that it is too similar — at least in its inability to imagine a black character as more than a token or a stereotype.

The one thing that gives me some hope is Jones herself, an amazing comedian who may have been able to transform her character into something more nuanced and less stereotypical than what we see in the trailer.

I guess we’ll see.

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abars01
abars01
4 years ago

So, when can we expect Return of Kings to call for an inevitably unsuccessful boycott which they’ll thereafter claim was successful?

sevenofmine
sevenofmine
4 years ago

Those of you saying variations of “I don’t think Ghostbusters is racist because Winston was my favorite character”…

This is not how racism works.

occasional reader
occasional reader
4 years ago

Hello.

So my childhood has been officially raped now

I guess he had said the same thing to his parents when they had told him that Santa was not real…

Hmm, black tropes again ? It seems it is hard to lose bad habits.
Maybe they could try to do a remake of Starsky and Hutch with one black and one latino as the two main protagonists ? And i want Steve Buscemi as Huggy Bear.

Have a nice day.

NickNameNick
NickNameNick
4 years ago

@sevenofmine

Those of you saying variations of “I don’t think Ghostbusters is racist because Winston was my favorite character”…

This is not how racism works.

Boy, I sure do love it when people completely misread my posts and claim I said something that I never said!

Goddamn. As if it wasn’t bad enough when someone went on an extensive rant because I dared used “slowly” within a sentence…

For one thing, no one is denying racism because they liked Winston Zeddemore – it’s specifically in response to when David claimed:

That movie’s “black ghostbuster,” played by Ernie Hudson, was so forgettable, and so obviously a token, that the designer simply left him off of this recently reworked Ghostbusters poster featuring his three white comrades.

All I disagreed with was that he was a forgettable (thus bad) character. That’s it. That’s all. No denial of the tokenism or the racial problems otherwise, so don’t claim I’m trying to fucking deny racism because I simply stated that I liked a character.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
4 years ago

TBH, from the moment the all woman cast was announced I actually had a bad feeling. It’s not that an all female cast can be wrong in a vacuum, it’s that it smelled like a gimmick, which don’t lend to good films in most cases.

I don’t know any of the comedian’s prior work, so maybe it was supposed to be a very good selections of comedians.

sevenofmine
sevenofmine
4 years ago

@ NickNameNick

All I disagreed with was that he was a forgettable (thus bad) character. That’s it. That’s all. No denial of the tokenism or the racial problems otherwise, so don’t claim I’m trying to fucking deny racism because I simply stated that I liked a character.

Your first post didn’t say that. You just said Winston was your favorite. You gave no indication of what specific words of David’s you were reacting to.

Then Diogenes said this:

I’d disagree with the racial aspect. Winston Zeddemore was probably the most relatable character for some viewers. (i.e. “If there’s a steady paycheck in it, I’ll believe anything you say.”) He’s the salt of the earth and plays straight man opposite three wacky academics.

“I’d disagree with the racial aspect…” for reasons amounting to “because I like the character”.

Then you responded with:

Exactly! He’s the only one of the four who, when it comes to telling others about ghostly phenomenon, actually gets how outrageous all that stuff would sound. He doesn’t disbelieve it, of course, but it’s clear that – next to Bill Murray – he’s more of a people person than either Egon or Stantz.

Someone said they disagreed with the racial aspect, you quoted that, replied with “exactly!” and then reiterated similar reasons. You’re actually indignant that someone read you as denying racism when you quoted someone denying racism and responded with “exactly”.

Boy, I sure do love it when people completely misread my posts and claim I said something that I never said!

Boy I sure do love it when people say words that apparently don’t match what they actually mean and then get mad at other people for failing to psychically divine that they meant something other than what they said.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
4 years ago

Does anybody mind if I tell Nick to shut the fuck up? Fucking Christ, that’s the second time he’s flipped the fuck out over a polite barely-even-a-disagreement in as many days. The first time was just confusing, but now it’s getting creepy.

(Why have so many of the male regulars and ex-regulars spontaneously morphed into whiny shitheads this week? Coincidence, Clinton, somebody drugged the water, alien mind control rays, what?)

Carayak
Carayak
4 years ago

The trailer was disappointing, but if it makes entitled manbabies cry, I’ll still go see it. Looks like there were some cool creature designs, and maybe, if we’re lucky, the real movie will show some awareness of the race problem it saddled itself with by the direct genderswap gimmick.

NickNameNick
NickNameNick
4 years ago

@sevenofmine

Your first post didn’t say that. You just said Winston was your favorite. You gave no indication of what specific words of David’s you were reacting to.

Fair enough, perhaps I should’ve made that specific quote. But, yes, it was meant to only be in response to Zeddemore as a character than the racial problems with the franchise, which I actually agree with David on.

Someone said they disagreed with the racial aspect, you quoted that, replied with “exactly!” and then reiterated similar reasons. You’re actually indignant that someone read you as denying racism when you quoted someone denying racism and responded with “exactly”.

Again, fair point – I should’ve specified my response was about how the character was described than anything else.

NickNameNick
NickNameNick
4 years ago

Fucking Christ, that’s the second time he’s flipped the fuck out over a polite barely-even-a-disagreement in as many days. The first time was just confusing, but now it’s getting creepy.

You’re right.

Rereading my posts, I could’ve responded better even if it still bugged me – which is partly due to the shitty discussions I’ve gotten into on Facebook and regret. It made me get far too defensive and it wasn’t the appropriate response here.

I’ve been in a very…odd mood these days and haven’t been composing myself well at all. Guess this should be in the open threads for personal stuff, but February was a weird month for me and I’m recovering from it. Having a depressive episode during that time certainly didn’t help either – lots of days spent entirely in bed. I felt under the weather, but it was usually this intense lethargy coupled with an overwhelming sense of apathy.

Not sure what it exactly is that caused me to feel all that. It could be personal, since it happened after my father’s visit, but that went well. Maybe it’s other personal stuff coupled with current politics, which has made me increasingly agitated. There’s also just the lack of work and the fact the area I live in is, economically, doing pretty poorly – which might mean moving away from someplace I’ve come to really like.

Social Justice Atheist
Social Justice Atheist
4 years ago

@Leah3

I’d watch it. For the lulz.

I can just picture a giant 1,000+ foot Donald Trump stomping through the streets of New York.

Pol
Pol
4 years ago

Good luck NickNameNick. Get better. I’ve had tough times too. Sometimes really tough times… But I kept going and I’m alive and well and happy about the future! And I must say, reading the Mammoth really helped too cheer me up.

Mary Contrary
Mary Contrary
4 years ago

@WWTH

Little Men was filmed twice (1934 and 1940), and was even made into a TV series in 1998 (Canadian, so it comes as no surprise that it both managed to run for two seasons and virtually no one outside Canada has even heard of it). Not sure how faithful any adaptation is to the novel, though. Golden Age Hollywood could be cringingly cavalier in that respect.

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

Newsflash to MRAs: There is no law requiring that a form of art stay the same to please you.

Remakes of movies are legal. And it’s completely aboveboard to have characters who once were white men now be POC or women, sometimes both.

Also, new games are legal. With female characters. And black and brown characters. Completely within the law!

None of the above constitutes rape–of a childhood or anything else.

It is, in fact, the nature of art to change. Art always wants to reveal something new.

Not so with manbabies.

banned@4chan.org
banned@4chan.org
4 years ago

I don’t know that the genderswapped cast is a gimmick, but I know that it’s the only reason I’m paying attention to yet another reboot.

It’s weird though: they’re keeping the stereotype about the token black person playing the “straight man” while the white people have their heads in the clouds, but they seem to be going with a completely different antagonist.

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

@NickNameNick

Comments can be hard to understand. That’s why Katie gave us Grumpy Cat pics.

Sorry to hear you’ve been down! I’ve been experiencing Trump-related and job-related angst too.

I hope that your job situation improves.

And I wish us all a future free of Trump news. He could take up knitting or piano lessons or checkers.

May it be so.

Huggbees
Huggbees
4 years ago

Oh God the “rape my childhood” speech again. Your childhood is not going to be runined by a few bad movies so quit your first world problem whining. Sorry for the rant I just can’t stand that phrase as for the trailer itself I personally thought was ok. I got a few chuckles out of the jokes but the ghosts looked a bit messed up. But one trailer doesn’t make a whole movie.

Bacon
Bacon
4 years ago

I would argue that the original did need a remake because it was very dated, particularly in its approach to women.
People seem to forget the part where Dr Venkman is creeping on one of his students, pretending she’s psychic so he can get a date?
Or the bit where he literally stalks Dana to work?
Or the bit where we have to hope he goes everywhere with powerful sedatives in his pocket, because otherwise he deliberately turned up to his date with a vial of Thorazine…

WeirwoodTreeHugger
WeirwoodTreeHugger
4 years ago

Mary Contrary,
Thanks. I had no idea. I guess I’ll have to amend my post to say it’s never been made into a widely seen movie.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
4 years ago

I really liked the designs of the ghosts, myself. They had a real 1/3 classic Ghostbusters, 1/3 Burton, 1/3 Haunted Mansion ride feel to them, at least in the trailer.

… Of course, I’m a dorky old goth with weird tastes, so. Different strokes and all that.

WeirwoodTreeHugger
WeirwoodTreeHugger
4 years ago

Anti-feminists are always claiming we use the label rape too eagerly. But plenty of women who were Jem fans growing up were annoyed with the atrocious recent movie which had pretty much nothing to do with the original story. This includes plenty of feminists. I didn’t see any of them accusing the movie of raping their childhoods though.

These guys will use the word “rape” to describe anything.

Except of course for actual rape.

banned@4chan.org
banned@4chan.org
4 years ago

But plenty of women who were Jem fans growing up were annoyed with the atrocious recent movie which had pretty much nothing to do with the original story.

Speaking of! Does anyone know if the new comic book series is any good? I’m considering picking up the first volume. Can anyone explain how or why Synergy in the latest issues is turning people into punks and goths?

Alex Rogan
Alex Rogan
4 years ago

“Oh nose. Mah childhood is ruins!” No, even if this movie sucks, it doesn’t ruin your childhood or the enjoyment of the original. Ghosbusters 2 did that. From the trailer, it looks below average but Kate McKinnon will be the best thing in it.

@Banned@4chan.org The Jem comic is really cool. It’s not exactly like the original cartoon, but still pays great respect to the original.

chippywillbethere
chippywillbethere
4 years ago

As a big Ghostbusters fan, I was very excited by this trailer. As for the Leslie Jones thing, yeah, they could have swapped her and Mckinnon to be safe from the token black character thing.
But for me, as long as Jones has good dialogue and isn’t treated like a lesser character to the other 3 I have no issue with this.

Tragedy of the Commas
Tragedy of the Commas
4 years ago

I knew so many guys in college who used phrases like “raped my childhood” or “ruined my childhood” 100% unironically. I used “killed my childhood faves” unironically back then, too, and I’m not proud of it. Demanding that stuff replicate one’s childhood perfectly is not a signifier of mature adulthood.

As others have pointed out, it’s worth noting how these “raped my childhood” guys take, very seriously, metaphorical rape, but frequently claim that actual rape victims make up their stories.

Sadly, I have to agree with David Futrelle’s criticisms of the trailer. Few of the jokes land and the special effects look terrible (maybe deliberately cheesy?). It’s also too long/spoils too much of the plot.

At first I wondered if the 150K, and growing, dislikes of the trailer on YouTube were the result of metabombing the trailer. But after I watched it…yeah.

Who knows though? Maybe this will be like the Batman v Superman trailers. Andre of Black Nerd Comedy compares two of them and explains why they give completely different impressions of the same movie.

Nequam
Nequam
4 years ago

There’s apparently a fannish recut of the trailer that some folks felt improved it.

And yes, sometimes the first trailer misfires– in a discussion at RPGnet about this trailer that broadened to trailers in general, someone noted that between the first and second Suicide Squad trailers they went from “Eh, might be okay when it hits Netflix” to “OMG I wanna see this NOW!”

Jon
Jon
4 years ago

So I’m nervous about posting this comment, but I think the reason the trailer falls flat to me is the difference in comedy, not the fact that they cast women.

What made a lot of the original ghostbusters was Murray’s deadpan performance, and generally straight man reaction to everything insane going on in the film. But modern comedy seems to be more focused on over-the-top slapstick and…something I can’t quite put a name to.

A friend and I were discussing it and realized we (the two of us, not a collective) don’t want a reboot – we want a sequel that has an all female cast that builds on the original, rather than starting it over as a fundamentally different style of movie. Wed also like to see a more diverse cast (Grace Parra and Aisha Tyler both popped up in our discussion).

Of course, I could be completely wrong about the film. It is just a trailer. But that’s the impression that I got from seeing it.

Kreator
Kreator
4 years ago

Count me in as yet another guy who had Winston as his favorite ghostbuster, perhaps aided by the fact that his toy was the first one of the line I got. I was too young at the time to understand the racist elements, though. Another thing that has tarnished his image for me is the fact that the actor who portrayed him turned out to be “female-as-noun” sexist.

By the way,

a) Do you wanna know something egregiously racist related to the franchise? Back when the animated show “The Real Ghostbusters” was being aired, some clueless executives decided that they wanted to change the show; among the stuff proposed was to give each ghostbuster a defined role: Egon was the brains of the team, Peter was the mouth, Ray was the heart, and Winston… was the driver.

b) Something I like about the fact that this film is a reboot is that IMO there already is a perfect Ghostbusters III, Ghostbusters: The Video Game. It features voice acting by most of the original cast and has a plot which ties the events of both films together quite nicely, so much so that it’d be disappointing for me to have it retconned in an actual film. That said, if this one is actually in continuity but in the future, as the trailer seems to imply at one point, perhaps it wouldn’t need to contradict the game; and that would be nice as well. That said, this movie will join the others in my collection either way.

NiOg
NiOg
4 years ago

I think Patty’s character would be OK *if she wasn’t the only black main character*. This is a flaw of small ensembles in general, that writers tend to err on the side of ‘oh, we need one of everything’ instead of letting a larger slice of the cast be an ethnicity.

If Patty’s the only black character, she has to be everything at once, which is impossible. So her character’s a mess, with writers trying to stuff as much ‘relatable black culture’ stereotypes in as they can. Tokenism always backfires, though: Since everything’s in there, everyone has something to dislike. Instead of being relatable to all, she’s insulting to all.

It’s only the first trailer, though. There could be other black characters in the film, that have lines, that take some of the heat off Patty. I have some hope that it’s not as awful as it looks at first blush. (Honestly, I kind of hope Winston’s in there as a secondary character. There are hints of continuity in the trailer; that it’s a sequel and not a remake.)

Things I like: They’re all different heights and sizes. That’s f*cking amazing in a Hollywood movie. It’d be nice to live in a world where that idea was, y’know, normal instead of mindblowing.

mockingbird
mockingbird
4 years ago

I haven’t seen it here, but I’ve seen some of the “MUH CHILDHOOD!” types complaining that the first movie stands up and they’d hate even an all-male remake.

OK.

You know, I love the first movie.
It came out when I was 4. I grew up with it.
Hell, I even like the 2nd – it came out when I was 9 and was just about exactly on my level of humor.

But, guis…1984.

That was 32 years ago.

Remakes are what they are – some are good, some are awful, but they do for the most part strive to bring something from the past into the present (if not in fact, then in “feel”).

Something tells me they wouldn’t be so up in arms about a remake from 1984 of a movie originally released in 1952.

If I’m being my most charitable, I might think that perhaps (for some, at least) this is mostly about their not being able to accept the passage of time.

http://i.imgur.com/YSF7aZH.jpg

Marionette
Marionette
4 years ago

@Scented Fucking Hard Chairs, dorky old goth five!

I don’t care what anyone says, I liked it and you (not you, specifically) can’t make me not. Plus I’ve had a girl crush on Kate McKinnon since the Big Gay Sketch Show.

Of course, no one has yet said anything (that I’ve heard) about whether Kate’s character is straight or gay, so that may be a Thing…

iknklast
iknklast
4 years ago

Can we not body shame please? Just because fat people (myself included) get way more hate for their bodies than skinny people doesn’t mean it’s okay to shame skinny people. Or make assumptions about their health.

Mels – I was in no way intending to body shame; I was merely rejecting the idea that the Hollywood dynamic has it right.

As a former anorexic, I empathize with people who are skinny. As someone who has since then gained an excess of weight, I empathize with people who are fat. The thing is, these are terms that, like so much else, exist along a spectrum, and the classification is very much lacking in rigor.

That said, I apologize to any skinny people that might have been offended. That was not my intent.

Monzach
Monzach
4 years ago

I liked the callback of having a harmless-looking ghost do a jump scare. It gave me shivers down my spine due to it reminding me of the first time I saw the original movie, on my own, way back in the early 90s. 🙂

I’m also a little worried that the only character from the original movies whose name I can’t remember at all is Dan Ackroyd’s. I guess this makes me both a misandrist and a selfhating white man…

The third thing I should mention is that I’m going to see this movie and as long as it’s better than the second one, all is pretty much good. My hopes are not very high, but they are mine. 😀

guy
guy
4 years ago

Forgive me if I come across as a bit snippy, but the word “pandering” has really lost its meaning from being abused by GooberGobbers and other manospherians who believe that anything that isn’t “cishet white male protagonist” (in other words, anything that panders directly to them) is “pandering” and is therefore bad.

So, who is this “pandering” to, might I ask?

I feel fairly confident that they went with an all-female main cast because they want to sell more tickets to people who want more women in major roles. Doesn’t make the movie bad, but that’s probably why.

Also, it does raise some concerns about quality: there hasn’t been a major changing of the guard in Hollywood over the past couple years, so an all-female cast for an action/comedy flick seems likely to be a cynical gimmick by the people who brought you cishet white male protagonists by the truckload. Specifically, they likely think there are lots of people who wouldn’t watch the movie if only three of the ghostbusters were women, or they’d have swapped one of them for a cishet white male protagonist.

It seems likely that it was in part a bid to deflect exactly a bunch of WHTM commenters complaining that the trailer isn’t funny, hoping that everyone here would automatically watch and support it out of social justice group loyalty. That doesn’t actually work, but there are people who think it does. Of course, that means we’re potentially looking at a lose-lose situation unless the final movie turns out to be actually good: if the movie fails it’ll get interpreted as meaning movies need male protagonists to sell, while if it succeeds it’ll get interpreted as meaning all-female casts sell movies regardless of quality.

On a vaguely-related note, there’s a live-action Ghost In The Shell coming up, and, well…

It’s been known for a while that Scarlett Johansson was slated for Major Kusunagi, which has attracted complaints of whitewashing. I’ve been somewhat dismissive of that based on just the one casting because a full-conversion cyborg with purple hair and red eyes can look like whatever ethnicity and Scarlett’s performance as Black Widow indicates she’s personally a good fit for the role and has star power. Obviously there are Japanese actresses who can fill the role, but none of them were in The Avengers. However, they’ve also cast white actors for Batou and The Laughing Man. Okay, fine, there probably aren’t that many six-foot and muscular Japanese actors who can carry a lead role, but The Laughing Man is under no such constraint and that’s the top three roles filled with white people.

They have cast Takeshi Kitano, a Tokyo native, for Chief Aramaki, but I’m inclined to view that dubiously. His role is always somewhat secondary; he commands Section 9 but most of what he actually does is handle legal issues so they can arrest people with diplomatic immunity and high government officials or override other departments when they’re being suspiciously unhelpful. It’s the sort of role that’s pretty easy to marginalize.

Valentine
Valentine
4 years ago

Kurt Russel Busters sounds amazing.

David Johnson
David Johnson
4 years ago

What I think everyone has forgotten is that the original Ghostbusters was not all that great of a movie. Yes, it had its funny moments and that fucking song was endlessly played, but in the end, GIGO.

Valentine
Valentine
4 years ago

To be honest Melissa mcarthey is the only actress I recognise out of them and at first she wasn’t in very good films but after the heat and spy she really shows how funny she is. I’d go see it just for this reason. That said the racism just puts me off ghostbusters remake as a whole. I don’t want to be one of the dudes supporting the system to carry on making stereotypes.
What is the picture of Whoopi Goldberg from?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ valentine

You seen “Doomsday”? Brilliant film. Basically it’s Rhona Mitra as Snake Pliskenn.

Marionette
Marionette
4 years ago

Wait a second. Are these manbabies the same ones that consider rape 1) no big deal, and/or 2) something that should be legalised?

Because if I’m reading it right then what they are saying is that the change in gender of Ghostbusters is either of little importance or something they actively want to encourage.

Right?

kale
kale
4 years ago

I hate remakes and reboots, and the original GB had problems – with racism and sexism primarily, tone issues, like creepy not really consensual ghost sex in a movie primarily watched by kids. It was great and funny, sure, but lots of great and funny movies also are deeply fucked up in some aspect and otherwise imperfect, with some parts that are just… “stupid” (is that an ableist term? what other word could I use?). Like, Ewoks for example.
Honestly the only reason Im comsidering seeing this movie is because it pisses off misogynistic fanboys so much.
but the news that its just as racist as its predecessor is so fucking disappointing, I dont really wanna waste what for me is a lot of money to find out. Bummer.

kale
kale
4 years ago

btw, there was an all-male Little Women written by Alcott herself called Jo’s Boys.

Ktoryx
Ktoryx
4 years ago

Why… why is the childhood so sacred? This has to be part of the manbaby psychology; not only can we not put our toys away, we must defend them to the death. If you’re stuck in a romanticized past, it makes sense that you would wish nothing to change, critique, or add to that past.

This made me realize how pathetic these people are. I’m sad now

And that they never learned the adult skill of empathy. “You may not think exactly the way I do, but that’s OK and you’re still a fine person and your different opinions do not hurt me”

Not only can they NOT accept a new movie that might be different from the one they loved in their childhood EVEN EXISTING IN THE WORLD, anyone else who wants to see the movie is suspect. Everything must be preserved EXACTLY. NOTHING can change because CHANGE IS SCARY. And the people that are OK with change are EVEN SCARIER.

tedthefed
tedthefed
4 years ago

I always thought they put Winston in because they were nervous about having three main characters who were all scientists. Like, “Hey everybody they’re not total snobs to poor, uneducated (black) people, see??”

Still, god bless Ernie Hudson, making a real character out of what he was given.

lightcastle
lightcastle
4 years ago

A friend and I were discussing it and realized we (the two of us, not a collective) don’t want a reboot – we want a sequel that has an all female cast that builds on the original, rather than starting it over as a fundamentally different style of movie.

I am pretty firmly in that camp as well, I thought this franchise would benefit from a sequel more than a reboot. The trailer does seem to imply at one point it is in the same universe, but the fact they do the library joke almost exactly makes me think it isn’t.

The trailer was deeply underwhelming I found. However, I’ve seen two recuts that made it better. One cuts out all the dialogue, and uses the Extreme Ghostbusters theme, which I think is ok pacing wise, but I can’t help but notice Reddit and such are all excited about it and it also happens to mean the women don’t talk. Another one just tweaks the pacing and such, keeps some of the jokes in (which land better) and excises others. That one has the original Ghostbusters theme and is much better in my opinion.

Noadi
4 years ago

It was great and funny, sure, but lots of great and funny movies also are deeply fucked up in some aspect and otherwise imperfect, with some parts that are just… “stupid” (is that an ableist term? what other word could I use?). Like, Ewoks for example.

I’ll defend the little murder bears to the death. I love them.

The frustrating thing with Winston is that he was supposed to be more than he was in the original script but the studio wanted more Peter Ray and Egon time so his backstory as a former marine with multiple degrees that made him the most capable of the team was all cut. I think the trailer referring to “four scientists” was meant to refer to that fact. (Can you tell I have huge Ghostbusters fan as friends, as in they have elaborate movie accurate cosplay.)

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

I feel fairly confident that they went with an all-female main cast because they want to sell more tickets to people who want more women in major roles. Doesn’t make the movie bad, but that’s probably why.

Well Feig already said it was because he enjoyed working with these actors. If a director cast a bunch of dudes (s)he found funny and liked to work with, no one would bat an eye, but cast funny women and suddenly the only possible reason anyone can think of is that they are pandering.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
4 years ago

btw, there was an all-male Little Women written by Alcott herself called Jo’s Boys.

Yes, as someone stated, they even had a movie and TV series but I guess none of these assholes would know that because girl cooties.

And I think the movie shows promise. I rolled my eyes at the stereotypical nonesense of the trailer but it looks good to me. I was more worried about it being more action/comedy than action/drama/comedy but it looks like it won’t be all jokes and action but still have a decent story in it.

I’m gonna watch it for sure.

WeirwoodTreeHugger
WeirwoodTreeHugger
4 years ago

Yeah, studios fund movies with white leads, male leads, and cis het leads all the time because they think that’s what sells. Nobody calls it pandering because it’s just the default state and people don’t notice.

leftwingfox
leftwingfox
4 years ago

I think it’s fair to separate the part of Winston Zeddmore with the character dynamics of Winston being the sole African-American in the group.

In the movie, Winston is the everyman who can be a Ghostbuster. In the cartoons, he helps create a spectrum of plot-elements. Egon and Ray talk about the ghost science, Ray and Winston work together on the mechanical/engineering side, Winston and Peter crack wise to process the supernatural on an emotional level, rather than the academic level.

Making the least educated person on the team black plays into racist stereotypes, as does the general exclusion from the plot and marketing of the film, as did the generally poor treatment Ernie Hudson got in comparison.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
4 years ago

Cracked did a great (and rightfully exasperated) piece on this today. Just, y’know, don’t read the comments. 736 angry MRA sockpuppets and counting!