The Knights Who Say Cuck rally around Trump in wake of KKK controversy

I’ve never worked directly with US politicians on any extensive basis, so it might be different. However, I have worked with British politicians at local and national level and had exposure to current and worked with former ministers. Some of them – a few of them – are vile individuals and this has relatively little to do with their espoused policies and whether I agreed with them or not. But most of them are actually really hard-working, pragmatic and often very nice individuals who just happen to like attention and institutional power more than most people. Yes, sometimes they end up saying and doing things that they’d rather not, but everyone – everyone gets captured by the grind of government. Some of them, as I said are nasty, nasty people. But most of them aren’t. And believe it or not, most of them really do want to make things better. I just might not agree with what they think is better or if I do, how to get there.

I think that that holds true for politicians as a whole in the US, but (again, simply speaking from accounts of those who’ve dealt with them at an impersonal “What can you do for me? Oh, nothing…next…” level) quite a few of them who operate on the national level in this country seem to be…since calling them “narcissists” may be ableist, I’ll just say that they seem to have real problems viewing people in terms anything beyond their utility. In most cases, this manifests as simple chilliness. From what I’ve heard, though, Clinton can be especially nasty towards those with perceived low utility, at least in person-to-person interactions. Editing to add: And I’ll stress that the number “stories” that I’ve heard about all other politicians combined don’t add up to those that I’ve heard about Clinton. Maybe that’s because people expect women to be more considerate and she’s really no worse than some of the more prickly guys out there, but people seem to out of their way to share their horrible experiences with her.

But I’m not too terribly sure how much that counts for anything, at least when it comes to this level of politics.

As I intimated in my earlier post, Dick Cheney reminded me of nothing so much as my long lost amiable grandfather and treated with me with genuine warmth when I was some random store clerk, but I think that he participated in (instigated?) causing real harm on both the national and international level.

I don’t care how lovely (or not) you are – policy positions (both stated and demonstrated) are how someone gets my wee, paltry vote and Clinton’ll win it in any match up between her and a Republican.

@SHFC

Your link is the weakest possible defence there is: I also used the words “Republican politicians”. Am I somehow using that word derisively as well? I use the term to differentiate the apparatus and apparatchiks from the regular people who are democrats, because I think that there are several people who would label themselves democrat without agreeing with or maybe even quietly desparing at what the party does or doesn’t do.

And yes, I’m aware of who authored anti-reproductive rights proposals. Doesn’t change the fact that the democratic party pretty much rolled over and played dead. Congratulations: you locked onto one issue, which I only threw in there at the last minute as a kind of “what’s the point if you’re just going to let them have their way anyway?” Would you care to disagree with the rest?

@Freemage

I agree that the GOP has gone off the rails, especially now that Trump winning the investiture doesn’t seem like a remote possibility. My primary problem isn’t so much with the white hot rage of Republicans, although that’s also a serious problem, but with lesser-evilism itself and the way it can become a problem, and also because I think that the way that elections work, whatever differences exist between the two parties are magnified beyond all measure while their disturbing similarities go largely unreported. (if you don’t want to watch the whole thing, the first two minutes basically spell it out).

While small differences in foreign policy can have huge impacts given the scales involved, I’m an idealist at heart and “not as bad as” hardly seems like the kind of thing that people should be aiming for. I might vote for a lesser of two evils given the right circumstances, but there’s a huge difference between that and telling myself I did the right thing.

I’m so glad a man has come to splain to me about what’s best for my uterus. That’s always neat.

@J^3

As for Clinton… Well, she makes Nixon look like a saint. All that stuff about Bengazi, emails/server and stuff is just the tip of the iceberg.

Look, I despise Hillary Clinton for a wide variety of perfectly valid reasons, and the thought of having to vote for her makes me want to spit, but spewing right-wing noise machine memes is the very definition of NOT FUCKING HELPING.

@This Handle is a Test

The fact that I know Trump will flip at least one Obama state has me more than a little scared as I see Trump as the closest thing to fascism that the US has had in a major candidate. Feel free to disagree, hell I want you to disagree as it means my stress level will go down.

It’s not that he’s more of a fascist, he’s just more open about it and the Overton window is far enough right that he can get away with it (so far.) I’ve got nothing reassuring to say on that topic, though: the man’s Mussolini in a bad toupee, and the only real question is whether he’ll dress his cadres in brown shirts or go with American tradition and use silver.
@mockingbird

she’s a genuinely horrible, unpleasant person who gives zero actual shits for “the little guy” on a person-to-person level.

But for political reasons she has to at least pretend to give a shit, unlike the Republicans. Also, I don’t think I’ve ever actually voted for a politician (including a Senatorial candidate that I actually canvassed for) who I could hold a civil conversation with for five minutes; My personal feelings about their personalities are totally irrelevant, I get endlessly annoyed by people justifying their vote because the candidate ‘seemed nice’ or ‘I could have a beer with them’ or whatever bullshit.
@rugbyyogi

And believe it or not, most of them really do want to make things better. I just might not agree with what they think is better or if I do, how to get there.

and I don’t give a damn about that either. Good intentions cuts no ice; I care what the actual effects of their actual policies will be, not what they want them to be.

re: Hillary’s emails
For me, personally, I don’t honestly give a third of a dram of stale rat piss if she was ccing every single email she received or sent the whole time she was Secretary of state directly to Wikileaks, Vladimir Putin and Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi. I genuinely don’t care.

Donald is a terrible person and would be a terrible president, but Cruz is in my opinion 100 times worse. Donald is a pandering, childish asshole, and comically incompetent, but he seems to have some level of actual decency in him. I know that doesn’t necessarily mean he’d show any decency as president, but at this point I’m fairly convinced that a Cruz presidency would be infinitely more disastrous.

Maybe that’s because people expect women to be more considerate and she’s really no worse than some of the more prickly guys out there, but people seem to out of their way to share their horrible experiences with her.

I think you’ve nailed it here. I mean, I’m sure she is a jerk, because politician, but it being pointed out more just smacks of the “Bossy” phenomenon to me.

@otherwise

To be undeservedly fair, I did ask Joe if he’s a misogynist and he might’ve taken it to be rhetorical. I meant it as an honest question, though, because he used to be a good poster and I’m wondering WTF happened. (This also applies to David NT. Two previously-normal guys going full BSAB in a thread about Trump and the KKK? The fucking fuckery-fuck is going on?)

… Of course, he responded by grabbing the nails and heading to the nearest cross like he had the whole show pre-planned, so yeah, undeservedly fair.

I wonder if in 2020 the Republican primaries will be even more extreme, or if they’ll be slightly more reasonable. I just don’t know where they will go after this trainwreck.

Maybe that’s because people expect women to be more considerate and she’s really no worse than some of the more prickly guys out there, but people seem to out of their way to share their horrible experiences with her.

I think you’ve nailed it here. I mean, I’m sure she is a jerk, because politician, but it being pointed out more just smacks of the “Bossy” phenomenon to me.

The more I think about it, the more I think that’s probably true.

And, thinking about it, it’s all been men that I’ve heard complain about her.

As you said, I’m sure she’s a jerk, but probably no worse than any other high-power politician.

I still don’t like her, though – she’s just such an opportunistic neoliberal.

This thread is depressing. 2 different dudes willing to let other people suffer because a perfect solution hasn’t presented itself.

@katz

For those keeping score at home, David is the first person so far to blame Clinton for something her husband did. Always a sound strategy when arguing with feminists.

It’s such a common thing to see that I didn’t even notice. Ugh.

@Imaginary Petal

I read it. I just misunderstood the basis of the grievance (Democratic vs. Democrat, I get it now) as something else. Sorry.

@SHFC

Part of the reason I lose my cool when it comes to electoral politics is because I despair at the entire process, which I think is largely a sham to legitimate whoever is in power. I don’t necessarily think it’s entirely intended that way, but it does tend to work out that way in practice. For instance, Obama rode to office largely based on public displeasure with the wars and with the economic meltdown and bailouts. Two terms later, the US is still in Iraq and Aghanistan, the Obama administration has enacted more bailouts. Meanwhile, the anti-war and foment that was there in Bush’s time has evaporated and there isn’t much in the way of protests aimed at Wall Street since the dismantling of Occupy.

Again, I apologize if I offended anyone, but there’s so much about electoral politics (the pageantry, the way it’s covered in the news, the cult of personality, the issue non-issues and non-isssue issues, etc.) that makes my skin crawl that I get very very irritated when I hear people defend the Democratic party given that I consider that it is so deeply part of the problem and its perpetuation.