Somehow I forgot to include being tarred* and feathered** by redcoats* as punishment for buying* coats and muskets** from deserters* among my American qualifications.
@Alan:
It should be linked to through my name here via the black magic that is Gravatar. If that doesn’t work then it’s here.
There’s not much on it at the moment. I’ve used it mostly as a repository for long-form writing which I wanted to put somewhere worksafe so that I could link to it.
Alan Robertshaw
8 years ago
@ EJ
Is Gravatar that thing that magically made my picture appear here? Scary.
I’ve had a peruse (to use the word in its incorrect but popular sense). It’s really interesting and I’ll have a proper delve later. There’s something I think I should send you, but before I do you need to read up on two people, Shami Chakrabarty and Connor Gearty. This is a tale that definitely needs to be put in context, otherwise you’ll think I’m even more of a monster!
opposablethumbs
8 years ago
Well, damn – I was trying to think why the name was jumping off the screen at me and then I realised I’ve met Conor Gearty multiple times (not that he’d remember by now (unless he has an eidetic memory or something) as it was quite coincidental).
opposablethumbs
8 years ago
On reflection, what a daft thing for me to say. Complete and utter non sequitur, sorry.
cleverforagirl
8 years ago
I’m sorry. I know I’m not one of the cool kids, but I need to vent and don’t know where else to do it.
My medicaid just got cancelled. Now, I’m trying to get ahold of social services with zero luck. I’ve already got a plan b in place, so it isn’t the end of the world, but with the depression and anxiety I’m having a hard time convincing myself of that.
I guess the thing is is that when shit like this happens to friends and family, usually I’m the one on the phone with ss or the doctor/caseworker whoever needs to be talked to. It’s my thing when others are having problems, Clever walks out of the room with her phone and comes back with meds/ins/docs all fixed like magic. Since I’m alone in this I feel isolated and a touch resentful, which is really unfair to those around me.
Thank you for a platform.
tl;dr: Shit is going down, I feel alone and jerk brain is doing its jerk thing.
*hugs* if desired. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this shit alone. Also, endless sympathies for dealing with the utter clusterfuck that is social services in the States.
Social Justice Atheist
8 years ago
@ masque d’etoiles
Yep. I really wish we had a counselor at my school that was actually helpful instead of telling students that it’s all their fault and they just need to “apply themselves.”
Also, thank you for those kind words. Those are some of the nicest things anyone has ever said about me. My whole life I have heard a lot of not-so-nice things, which is what got me into social justice in the first place. I thought it was so unfair how a lot of people were treated in life. A lot of times I feel guilty also because I feel like I need to be a perfect ally and even though I am learning something new every day, sometimes I mess up or use the wrong words or offend people and that hurts me because the last thing I would want to do is punch down at marginalized people, even if that wasn’t my intent. I know intent isn’t magic, so it still hurts them and that tears me up inside.
@Orion
I have been told that it is *very very likely* that I have a number of learning disorders, but have never gotten an official diagnosis. I struggle an extreme amount with math and science, to the point where I am several grade levels behind. I do pretty well in language arts and more “creative” classes. I am good at typing but my handwriting is so poor that it is practically unreadable, so I have to use a device that allows me to type up my answers. Even still, it is very hard to keep up with the rest of my class. I do agree that getting an official diagnosis could immensely help and that I should probably be in special ed.
@cleverforagirl
I’m so sorry to hear about your struggles. You are always welcome to comment here and your problems matter just as much as anyone else. It is great to have a platform, it works wonders for making you feel better. And it doesn’t matter if you are one of the “cool kids” here or not, I know I’m certainly not. 😛 Welcome!
Woah. Reading that article was like reading about myself to a T. When I was younger, I was actually put in a few “gifted” classes and told that I was bright, because I was able to think deeply and showed good problem-solving. But as I got older, it was very apparent that I was lagging behind. It was like there was an “error” in my brain that was preventing me from processing even the most simple of math problems. I also had a lot of social problems and it was and still is very hard for me to make new friends because I am socially awkward and painfully shy so it puts people off. I have a very tight, small circle of friends that have been my friends since I was a kid. And it’s not that I don’t want to make new friends, it’s just hard. A lot of things that seem to come easy to other people don’t come so easy to me.
I have been officially diagnosed with ADD and OCD and am on medications for them as well as depression and anxiety/agoraphobia. It would really help to get an official diagnosis for my possible learning disorder/disorders. From the article you linked, it was like reading a report written about me. No one has suggested that I may be twice exceptional, but wow. If I was it would all make sense.
Dyscalculia was one of the learning disabilities it was suggested that I have, along with dysgraphia because of my poor handwriting. It has also been suggested that I may have autism or Asperger’s. I do seem to fit some of the qualifications of the disorder, but I won’t know for certain unless I am tested for it. Which should help in placing me in the proper classes. (If I need to switch). I also have an IEP but am not currently in any special education classes.
guy
8 years ago
Yeah, I was determined to be “twice exceptional” in elementery school and your story is sounding very familiar. You can get some pretty good in-class accommodations from your IEP; I also have very bad handwriting and compensated with an accommodation letting me write in all capital letters, which renders things only almost as opposed to entirely unreadable. Also got a keyboard thing called an AlphaSmart but it was terrible; technology may have advanced since.
Though I had to rely pretty heavily on my mom, my psychologist, and my IEP case managers; teachers tend to push back on accommodations and you can only reliably get them if they’re written into the IEP and someone at least implicitly threatens to have the teacher fired if they don’t give it. Most teachers were willing to work with me but it only takes one to really ruin your year.
guy
8 years ago
For anyone who is unfamiliar, in the US there’s this thing called an IEP that stands for something like “Individualized Education Plan” for students with learning disabilities. All I really know about the legal background is that they’re a federal requirement (subject to assorted factors about federal control over schools, but basically it applies to any school that enjoys having a budget) and if a school fails to follow one it’s grounds for a lawsuit, which can reliably get school administrators to lean on teachers to avoid one.
I was pretty young when mine was set up; it involved getting an official diagnosis for a learning disability. Apparently you can get evaluated by a professional associated with the schools but grapevine says that they tend to remember who is paying their salaries and you’re better off looking outside if you have the money. That is especially true if you’re managing to get good grades despite it.
In my school system I then got assigned an IEP case manager and my parents and eventually myself once I was old enough would meet with the case manager and one of my teachers about twice yearly and haggle over what accommodations I should get and if we should strike any, and which I needed to go without because I wouldn’t get them in college*.
There are all kinds of accommodations available as needed, such as extended testing, getting to type essays, small-group testing, using a calculator on tests where it would normally be forbidden, a grace period for late assignments, and not needing to fill in scantron bubbles, among others. The objective is basically to let people with learning disabilities succeed in regular classes instead of needing special education classes. We had those too, but they’re really geared towards people who are behind overall and a very poor fit for people who manage to get into gifted programs unassisted.
If I hadn’t gotten mine early and had family and school faculty pushing to get me accommodations, my story would probably be almost exactly the same as SJA’s except for English and History instead of Math and Science.
*this is a complete lie you can absolutely get accommodations in college.
Robert
8 years ago
I was put in a class for the Educationally Handicapped (EH) in elementary school. I was reading at second grade level in kindergarten, and doing math at kindergarten level in second grade. The teachers in the EH class brought in their college history textbooks for me, and taped the times table to my desk until I memorized it. I didn’t understand what math *was* until my thirties, which is why I majored in history in university instead of the sciences (my first intellectual love).
One beneficial outcome of the experience – it immunized me against the sin of cerebral pride. Despite the number of things about which I was freakishly knowledgeable, I was acutely aware of how much I *didn’t* know. In addition to mathematics, music was a closed book until very recently – I figured out what ‘key’ means after six months of intense independent study. The pattern that emerged, humorously enough, is that I have a problem with recognizing and interpreting patterns. Could be part of why my son’s therapist suggested that I might be on the spectrum.
I realized recently that my biggest motivation for wanting to learn to knit was not because I wanted to knit something, but because I wanted to prove to myself that I could learn how. Similar to my biggest problem with drawing isn’t my lack of skills – it’s the unanswered question of *why* I want to draw. And nobody is willing to answer it for me.
Social Justice Atheist
8 years ago
@guy
Thank you for pointing out the meaning of IEP to commenters here who do not live in the US/may not know what IEP is.
I do currently use an AlphaSmart which has helped me tremendously with my writing, but I still struggle in math and science because of my lack of diagnosis to get me more specialized forms of help. Whether that would mean that I would be in special ed classes or not, I’m not sure. My IEP currently is for my severe ADD and writing/hand-eye coordination problems. I am able to type my tests, and I am able to test in small groups. I very well may be twice-exceptional, because the Wikipedia article seems to describe me perfectly.
@Robert
Knitting for you is what music was/is for me. I’ve always been good at singing and I wanted to learn to sing even better so I could prove to myself that I could learn. I am in chorus and I really enjoy it.
Orion
8 years ago
SJA, what grade are you in?
Social Justice Atheist
8 years ago
@Orion
I am a senior in high school.
cleverforagirl
8 years ago
Thank you SJA and Dali! Hugs are always welcome.
SJA I’m also curious about the math you’re in. A hundred or so years ago I used to tutor a bit of math/tech/sci for the disabled. I’m definitely not an expert, but I might have a few things that can help. (ok my toolbox consists of analogies, bad jokes and games, but it works for some people)
Social Justice Atheist
8 years ago
@cleverforagirl
I am in Algebra 2 and very behind others who are in my grade.
Orion
8 years ago
Are high school graduates allowed to meet with their old guidance counselors? Do you know whether your counselor is any good?
It sounds like there are a lot of reasons you might not want to rush off to a 4-year college right away. Or perhaps ever; one certainly doesn’t need a BA to have a good job or to be learned and well-read. Still, there are benefits to the credential, and with your writing ability you could do very well. If and when you do want to go, you should know that some schools go out of their way to be more welcoming to unusual folks.
Admissions at a lot of schools are driven by grades and test scores, but there are colleges that don’t require SAT/ACT scores at all, and schools that heavily weight the essays, portfolios, volunteer histories, and the like. If you’re looking a couple years from now, there are schools that are especially friendly to older or transfer students, and there are financial aid opportunities for independent adults that aren’t available to children.
I’m not saying you should worry about any of this right now; I just hope you have access to get the info you would need should the time come.
Social Justice Atheist
8 years ago
@Orion
I’m not sure if high school graduates are allowed to meet with their former counselors or not, but my counselor isn’t exactly the best or most understanding and unfortunately tends to shrug off very serious student issues.
There is actually a college near where I live that doesn’t require SAT or ACT scores, which is good news for me. I’m still not exactly sure what I want to do career-wise but as you said, it definitely won’t hurt to have a degree. My brother is actually going off to said college next fall, so maybe I will ask him some questions about it to see if it could be a good fit. I’m really hoping so.
Orion
8 years ago
I wouldn’t go so far as to say that college can’t hurt, considering how much money some people borrow for it. If you’d like to be a professional dog groomer, for instance, you might consider going straight for that. Also, you might want to try part-time community college before you rush off to a 4-year; it would give you some time to treat whatever needs treated and to catch up on anything that needs caught.
Anyway, should you or any other mammoths need to choose an American college, my contacts are absurdly overinformed. If you have a weird requirement I can probably gets you a list of names (colleges that don’t require SATs, colleges with a Pipe Organ major, colleges you can bring your horse to, etc.) and if you’re considering an unusual or elite school there’s a decent chance I know someone who knows someone who went there.
I’m beginning to realize that I had no idea how exceptional my childhood circumstances actually were.
Social Justice Atheist
8 years ago
@Orion
Oh, colleges can definitely hurt in the sense that a lot of people just don’t have the money. I know my family certainly doesn’t, which is why my brother had to wait two years before going off to college. He has had to work to pay for his own college, and so will I if I choose to go. Even if I wanted to jump straight into a 4-year college, we simply can’t afford for me to go so I will have to get a job and possibly wait quite a while. That will also give me some time to get treatment for my eating disorder and get well (and more clear-headed) so I can truly start thinking about what I want to do with my life.
I have actually wanted to be a hairdresser for a long time and have thought that maybe that might be a better option for me. Of course I would still need to pay to go to cosmetology school, but it wouldn’t require a college degree. Overall though, I’m still not exactly sure if that would be right for me either. Maybe I will take a year “off” after I graduate, get a job, and just think about it for a while while simultaneously earning money to pay for cosmetology school/college if I choose to go.
It would be nice to find out more about different colleges that don’t require SATs though, just in case. I should probably do more research on different possible options as well, such as community college.
We Hunted The Mammoth
Somehow I forgot to include being tarred* and feathered** by redcoats* as punishment for buying* coats and muskets** from deserters* among my American qualifications.
*Not real
**Real
@Alan:
It should be linked to through my name here via the black magic that is Gravatar. If that doesn’t work then it’s here.
There’s not much on it at the moment. I’ve used it mostly as a repository for long-form writing which I wanted to put somewhere worksafe so that I could link to it.
@ EJ
Is Gravatar that thing that magically made my picture appear here? Scary.
I’ve had a peruse (to use the word in its incorrect but popular sense). It’s really interesting and I’ll have a proper delve later. There’s something I think I should send you, but before I do you need to read up on two people, Shami Chakrabarty and Connor Gearty. This is a tale that definitely needs to be put in context, otherwise you’ll think I’m even more of a monster!
Well, damn – I was trying to think why the name was jumping off the screen at me and then I realised I’ve met Conor Gearty multiple times (not that he’d remember by now (unless he has an eidetic memory or something) as it was quite coincidental).
On reflection, what a daft thing for me to say. Complete and utter non sequitur, sorry.
I’m sorry. I know I’m not one of the cool kids, but I need to vent and don’t know where else to do it.
My medicaid just got cancelled. Now, I’m trying to get ahold of social services with zero luck. I’ve already got a plan b in place, so it isn’t the end of the world, but with the depression and anxiety I’m having a hard time convincing myself of that.
I guess the thing is is that when shit like this happens to friends and family, usually I’m the one on the phone with ss or the doctor/caseworker whoever needs to be talked to. It’s my thing when others are having problems, Clever walks out of the room with her phone and comes back with meds/ins/docs all fixed like magic. Since I’m alone in this I feel isolated and a touch resentful, which is really unfair to those around me.
Thank you for a platform.
tl;dr: Shit is going down, I feel alone and jerk brain is doing its jerk thing.
@ cleverforagirl
*hugs* if desired. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this shit alone. Also, endless sympathies for dealing with the utter clusterfuck that is social services in the States.
@ masque d’etoiles
Yep. I really wish we had a counselor at my school that was actually helpful instead of telling students that it’s all their fault and they just need to “apply themselves.”
Also, thank you for those kind words. Those are some of the nicest things anyone has ever said about me. My whole life I have heard a lot of not-so-nice things, which is what got me into social justice in the first place. I thought it was so unfair how a lot of people were treated in life. A lot of times I feel guilty also because I feel like I need to be a perfect ally and even though I am learning something new every day, sometimes I mess up or use the wrong words or offend people and that hurts me because the last thing I would want to do is punch down at marginalized people, even if that wasn’t my intent. I know intent isn’t magic, so it still hurts them and that tears me up inside.
@Orion
I have been told that it is *very very likely* that I have a number of learning disorders, but have never gotten an official diagnosis. I struggle an extreme amount with math and science, to the point where I am several grade levels behind. I do pretty well in language arts and more “creative” classes. I am good at typing but my handwriting is so poor that it is practically unreadable, so I have to use a device that allows me to type up my answers. Even still, it is very hard to keep up with the rest of my class. I do agree that getting an official diagnosis could immensely help and that I should probably be in special ed.
@cleverforagirl
I’m so sorry to hear about your struggles. You are always welcome to comment here and your problems matter just as much as anyone else. It is great to have a platform, it works wonders for making you feel better. And it doesn’t matter if you are one of the “cool kids” here or not, I know I’m certainly not. 😛 Welcome!
SJA,
You might find it interesting to read this,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twice_exceptional
@Orion.
Woah. Reading that article was like reading about myself to a T. When I was younger, I was actually put in a few “gifted” classes and told that I was bright, because I was able to think deeply and showed good problem-solving. But as I got older, it was very apparent that I was lagging behind. It was like there was an “error” in my brain that was preventing me from processing even the most simple of math problems. I also had a lot of social problems and it was and still is very hard for me to make new friends because I am socially awkward and painfully shy so it puts people off. I have a very tight, small circle of friends that have been my friends since I was a kid. And it’s not that I don’t want to make new friends, it’s just hard. A lot of things that seem to come easy to other people don’t come so easy to me.
I have been officially diagnosed with ADD and OCD and am on medications for them as well as depression and anxiety/agoraphobia. It would really help to get an official diagnosis for my possible learning disorder/disorders. From the article you linked, it was like reading a report written about me. No one has suggested that I may be twice exceptional, but wow. If I was it would all make sense.
@SJA
Try looking into being evaluated for Dyscalculia.
@guy
Dyscalculia was one of the learning disabilities it was suggested that I have, along with dysgraphia because of my poor handwriting. It has also been suggested that I may have autism or Asperger’s. I do seem to fit some of the qualifications of the disorder, but I won’t know for certain unless I am tested for it. Which should help in placing me in the proper classes. (If I need to switch). I also have an IEP but am not currently in any special education classes.
Yeah, I was determined to be “twice exceptional” in elementery school and your story is sounding very familiar. You can get some pretty good in-class accommodations from your IEP; I also have very bad handwriting and compensated with an accommodation letting me write in all capital letters, which renders things only almost as opposed to entirely unreadable. Also got a keyboard thing called an AlphaSmart but it was terrible; technology may have advanced since.
Though I had to rely pretty heavily on my mom, my psychologist, and my IEP case managers; teachers tend to push back on accommodations and you can only reliably get them if they’re written into the IEP and someone at least implicitly threatens to have the teacher fired if they don’t give it. Most teachers were willing to work with me but it only takes one to really ruin your year.
For anyone who is unfamiliar, in the US there’s this thing called an IEP that stands for something like “Individualized Education Plan” for students with learning disabilities. All I really know about the legal background is that they’re a federal requirement (subject to assorted factors about federal control over schools, but basically it applies to any school that enjoys having a budget) and if a school fails to follow one it’s grounds for a lawsuit, which can reliably get school administrators to lean on teachers to avoid one.
I was pretty young when mine was set up; it involved getting an official diagnosis for a learning disability. Apparently you can get evaluated by a professional associated with the schools but grapevine says that they tend to remember who is paying their salaries and you’re better off looking outside if you have the money. That is especially true if you’re managing to get good grades despite it.
In my school system I then got assigned an IEP case manager and my parents and eventually myself once I was old enough would meet with the case manager and one of my teachers about twice yearly and haggle over what accommodations I should get and if we should strike any, and which I needed to go without because I wouldn’t get them in college*.
There are all kinds of accommodations available as needed, such as extended testing, getting to type essays, small-group testing, using a calculator on tests where it would normally be forbidden, a grace period for late assignments, and not needing to fill in scantron bubbles, among others. The objective is basically to let people with learning disabilities succeed in regular classes instead of needing special education classes. We had those too, but they’re really geared towards people who are behind overall and a very poor fit for people who manage to get into gifted programs unassisted.
If I hadn’t gotten mine early and had family and school faculty pushing to get me accommodations, my story would probably be almost exactly the same as SJA’s except for English and History instead of Math and Science.
*this is a complete lie you can absolutely get accommodations in college.
I was put in a class for the Educationally Handicapped (EH) in elementary school. I was reading at second grade level in kindergarten, and doing math at kindergarten level in second grade. The teachers in the EH class brought in their college history textbooks for me, and taped the times table to my desk until I memorized it. I didn’t understand what math *was* until my thirties, which is why I majored in history in university instead of the sciences (my first intellectual love).
One beneficial outcome of the experience – it immunized me against the sin of cerebral pride. Despite the number of things about which I was freakishly knowledgeable, I was acutely aware of how much I *didn’t* know. In addition to mathematics, music was a closed book until very recently – I figured out what ‘key’ means after six months of intense independent study. The pattern that emerged, humorously enough, is that I have a problem with recognizing and interpreting patterns. Could be part of why my son’s therapist suggested that I might be on the spectrum.
I realized recently that my biggest motivation for wanting to learn to knit was not because I wanted to knit something, but because I wanted to prove to myself that I could learn how. Similar to my biggest problem with drawing isn’t my lack of skills – it’s the unanswered question of *why* I want to draw. And nobody is willing to answer it for me.
@guy
Thank you for pointing out the meaning of IEP to commenters here who do not live in the US/may not know what IEP is.
I do currently use an AlphaSmart which has helped me tremendously with my writing, but I still struggle in math and science because of my lack of diagnosis to get me more specialized forms of help. Whether that would mean that I would be in special ed classes or not, I’m not sure. My IEP currently is for my severe ADD and writing/hand-eye coordination problems. I am able to type my tests, and I am able to test in small groups. I very well may be twice-exceptional, because the Wikipedia article seems to describe me perfectly.
@Robert
Knitting for you is what music was/is for me. I’ve always been good at singing and I wanted to learn to sing even better so I could prove to myself that I could learn. I am in chorus and I really enjoy it.
SJA, what grade are you in?
@Orion
I am a senior in high school.
Thank you SJA and Dali! Hugs are always welcome.
SJA I’m also curious about the math you’re in. A hundred or so years ago I used to tutor a bit of math/tech/sci for the disabled. I’m definitely not an expert, but I might have a few things that can help. (ok my toolbox consists of analogies, bad jokes and games, but it works for some people)
@cleverforagirl
I am in Algebra 2 and very behind others who are in my grade.
Are high school graduates allowed to meet with their old guidance counselors? Do you know whether your counselor is any good?
It sounds like there are a lot of reasons you might not want to rush off to a 4-year college right away. Or perhaps ever; one certainly doesn’t need a BA to have a good job or to be learned and well-read. Still, there are benefits to the credential, and with your writing ability you could do very well. If and when you do want to go, you should know that some schools go out of their way to be more welcoming to unusual folks.
Admissions at a lot of schools are driven by grades and test scores, but there are colleges that don’t require SAT/ACT scores at all, and schools that heavily weight the essays, portfolios, volunteer histories, and the like. If you’re looking a couple years from now, there are schools that are especially friendly to older or transfer students, and there are financial aid opportunities for independent adults that aren’t available to children.
I’m not saying you should worry about any of this right now; I just hope you have access to get the info you would need should the time come.
@Orion
I’m not sure if high school graduates are allowed to meet with their former counselors or not, but my counselor isn’t exactly the best or most understanding and unfortunately tends to shrug off very serious student issues.
There is actually a college near where I live that doesn’t require SAT or ACT scores, which is good news for me. I’m still not exactly sure what I want to do career-wise but as you said, it definitely won’t hurt to have a degree. My brother is actually going off to said college next fall, so maybe I will ask him some questions about it to see if it could be a good fit. I’m really hoping so.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say that college can’t hurt, considering how much money some people borrow for it. If you’d like to be a professional dog groomer, for instance, you might consider going straight for that. Also, you might want to try part-time community college before you rush off to a 4-year; it would give you some time to treat whatever needs treated and to catch up on anything that needs caught.
Anyway, should you or any other mammoths need to choose an American college, my contacts are absurdly overinformed. If you have a weird requirement I can probably gets you a list of names (colleges that don’t require SATs, colleges with a Pipe Organ major, colleges you can bring your horse to, etc.) and if you’re considering an unusual or elite school there’s a decent chance I know someone who knows someone who went there.
I’m beginning to realize that I had no idea how exceptional my childhood circumstances actually were.
@Orion
Oh, colleges can definitely hurt in the sense that a lot of people just don’t have the money. I know my family certainly doesn’t, which is why my brother had to wait two years before going off to college. He has had to work to pay for his own college, and so will I if I choose to go. Even if I wanted to jump straight into a 4-year college, we simply can’t afford for me to go so I will have to get a job and possibly wait quite a while. That will also give me some time to get treatment for my eating disorder and get well (and more clear-headed) so I can truly start thinking about what I want to do with my life.
I have actually wanted to be a hairdresser for a long time and have thought that maybe that might be a better option for me. Of course I would still need to pay to go to cosmetology school, but it wouldn’t require a college degree. Overall though, I’m still not exactly sure if that would be right for me either. Maybe I will take a year “off” after I graduate, get a job, and just think about it for a while while simultaneously earning money to pay for cosmetology school/college if I choose to go.
It would be nice to find out more about different colleges that don’t require SATs though, just in case. I should probably do more research on different possible options as well, such as community college.
@SJA:
If you ever need help with maths stuff, feel free to drop me a line.