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antifeminism gross incompetence memes misogyny MRA open thread

Correct Spelling is Misandry! A Memeday Open Thread

Stay in school, MRA kids!
Stay in school, MRA kids!

Dudes, seriously? If you’re this bad at spelling, run your damn memes by someone you know who can spell before posting them for all of the Internet to see.

The word is spelled "therefore."
Wat

Dudes: The word is spelled “therefore.” With an “e” at the end. Also, center your text properly! In addition, I would suggest that you 1) lay off the rape jokes and 2) try to make even a little bit of sense.

mraschoolthen

Dudes: it’s “than,” not “then.” They are different words, with different meanings, and you used the wrong one.

Also, that first sentence is a mess. Change “or have internalized misogyny” to “nor do they have internalized misogyny.”

Once again, a feminist has to do the work that MRAs should be doing themselves. At least this time they spelled “misogyny” correctly.

As for you, dear readers: Feel free to discuss the arguments (or the spelling) of any of these memes. But you can use this as an open thread, too.

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msexceptiontotherule
msexceptiontotherule
5 years ago

I’m slightly annoyed that the woman in the shark whatever it was supposed to be-meme has such a ridiculous expression…until I start to think that maybe these dudes see that expression from women ALL THE TIME because what they’re saying ALL THE TIME is that dumb. And of course dudes think it’s not that *they’re* always saying stupid stuff that doesn’t make sense, it’s that women don’t get their superior manly man way of thinking.

I’d be tempted to make that face around that bunch of dudes too, maybe followed with getting out the pepper spray.

EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

I have done the otter’s quiz. I would be really interested, when all is done, to see the science behind the island survival question.

Kootiepatra
5 years ago

^ I agree with EJ (TOO). I am highly intrigued.

dust bunny
dust bunny
5 years ago

@ arash

Laziness by definition is “a disinclination to activity or exertion despite having the ability to act or exert oneself”
so when it’s easy and that person has the ability to spell check something, not prioritizing that thing is what we call laziness.

Laziness is a very value laden term, and calling people who don’t share your priorities lazy is not always justified. You can disagree with what people prioritize. For example, we disagree with “lazy” thinking that leads to stereotyping and prejudice, because we all agree that it’s so important to avoid hurting others it’s fair to say it should be a priority for everyone. But I can conceive of absolutely no good reason why good spelling would be as important. I can’t see what other reason there would be to value correct spelling highly at all, apart from the belief that it is bad to appear to have low intelligence, a learning disorder or a poor education. Maybe this is a failure of my imagination. I’m open to having my horizons broadened.

when there is no immediate way to know proper spelling it’s a disability but if you’re dyslexic and using the internet then you’re not disabled anymore because you can spell check anything quickly but you don’t.

I’m disabled. If I was able to completely hide my disability, with the use of tools or medication or whatever, and then heard people mock someone else for merely looking and sounding vaguely like they have my disability, I’d feel pretty awful.

it may have been used for this purpose, but invented?! you’re making a bold claim and you should back it up with evidence and reasoning.

I don’t think it requires either. We’re talking about an artificial barrier for participation that happened to fall along a class line. I’m not making literal claims about who first came up with the idea or why. Point is that we believe it today because it was a convenient excuse to discriminate against the disprivileged, and beliefs that serve that goal get propagated.

@ Kat

I don’t usually believe in belittling a person for bad spelling, but I’ll make an exception for these people.

Okay, but don’t you think there’s necessarily going to be some collateral belittling toward everyone who has trouble spelling?

arash
arash
5 years ago

if anybody is interested, here is another take on regressive left from a liberal point of view:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/30/not-muslim-enough-the-malcolm-x-zombie-rises-again.html

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

@arash

Go away.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
5 years ago

That shark attack meme makes no sense. Shark attacks are also less frequent than traffic jams and flu, so shut up and stop complaining and go live in the ocean? That’s their “solution”? The meme seems to be saying it would literally be easier for women to sprout gills and become marine creatures than for rapists to clean up their act. As if that’s such an outrageous idea. “Ha ha, decrease the behaviors and attitudes that lead to rape? You might as well flap your arms and fly to the moon!”

Re: spelling, maybe some of it is due to dyslexia/less privileged background, but I suspect a sizeable portion of it is due to MRAs dissing grammar and spelling as frivolous things that only nagging feminazi authority figures (teachers and moms) care about. From the way they talk about academia, I feel like it’s a value that many of them consciously reject. Spelling, like makeup and jewelry, is just a cosmetic nicety as far as they’re concerned. It’s beta and feminine to give too much of a shit about appearance. And it is true that an idea (or person) shouldn’t automatically get less consideration because of poor execution.

However, bad spelling and atrocious grammar completely undercuts their claim to be the more rational, intelligent sex. You just know that if they were critiquing something a woman had built, they’d be sneering at any sign that she didn’t take the utmost care with measurements, tools, and materials. Sloppy communication also doesn’t help win converts, but maybe PR isn’t the point of these.

@Imaginary Petal – took the Otter quiz. Looking forward to part 2!

Leda Atomica
Leda Atomica
5 years ago

Do shark attacks also happen less frequently than misandry? I wouldn’t suggest MRA types be put in sea though. Blah blah blah ecology blah blah blah polluting our oceans.

kupo
kupo
5 years ago

@Arash stop already with you regressive left bullshit.

Also, I didn’t want to get into it because I do think you’re at least mostly here to troll, but grammar being used as a tool of oppression is well documented. At best, it’s currently used to confirm bias. For example, a black person using poor grammar is assumed incompetent while a white person using poor grammar is given the benefit of the doubt. There are numerous local dialects of any language with their own grammar, but the “correct” grammar happens to be the one used by the ruling class, dating back to the dark ages when English grammar was defined using Latin.

Grammar is also sometimes used to try and force a language into rules that do not at all fit the language or culture, such as with Abbe de l’Épée, who believed deaf people were incapable of sophisticated thought because only a language as complex as written French could allow for sophisticated thought. He forced deaf children to learn to read and write in French and imposed French grammar rules on their hand signs, even though those rules don’t always work well in a visual, spacial language. Because if you can’t read and write proper French, clearly you’re incapable of sophisticated thought. And this concludes our lesson of the true history of the “father of sign language.”

Chiomara
Chiomara
5 years ago

On the “spelling” discussion:
I heavily disagree with people saying “people who can’t spell shouldn’t publicly speak” “bad spelling = laziness”. English is not my first language, I have (a low degree of) dyslexia and I am USELESS, at least in English, without my phone’s spellcheck. Still I have the right to communicate my thoughts. Hell, everyone does, even who can very barely read or write, and I will not ask them to spellcheck each word cause that’s absurd. The objective of language is to speak a message and be understood, and if that’s happening, then it’s right, and it’s quite, uh, ballsy and even desperate to consider a person dumb because of that or level of formal education. Not everyone has had the same opportunities in life, unfortunately.

Now, with that said, I have no problem with this post at all, because those texts are small (so it wouldn’t anyone to check it), go through many people before being posted, have really basic mistakes, but, most of all, because we all know that those guys are the first to try write pompously and laugh and undermine anyone who misspell. And it’s so delightful and justified to correct people who do this!

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

People know that picking on people’s spelling and grammatical abilities is a bit of a bugbear of mine. I won’t reiterate the points I’ve made before; I’m content that it’s been decided that it’s ok on this site.

But there are just two things I’d ask people to be wary of.

Firstly, assuming people fit a particularly ‘typical’ profile unless they prove otherwise. That belief that there’s some sort of ‘default normality’ can cause all sorts of problems. It’s why polite people ask about pronoun preferences rather than assuming.

Secondly, the ‘laziness’ thing. The “well I did it so anyone who can’t is just lazy” is used for everything from fat shaming to ATOS disability asssments.

It used to be the standard criticism of kids with educational needs. It’s the mindset behind the “What’s your excuse?” fitness campaign. It’s also the reason the government here has been able to remove disability benefits from hundreds of thousands of people. After all, if someone with the same disability as you can do a sponsored climb of Mount Kilamanjaro then you claiming you can’t work must just be down to laziness right?

If the memes claimed some sort of intellectual superiority then fine; that’s just pointing out irony and hypocrisy. But one privilege most people posting here seem to have is that they’re pretty smart. Making fun of people who aren’t as smart does seem like punching down.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
5 years ago

Bigotry always seems worse to me when it’s cloaked in flowery, perfectly spelled language (see: Heartiste).

That being said, there is a certain cognitive effort involved in decoding bad spelling, and it’s annoying when that effort is “rewarded” with douchespew telling you what a horrible person you are. Life is too short for that. I think we’d all rather spend time parsing thoughts that are sincere and worthwhile, however they’re expressed.

Rhuu
Rhuu
5 years ago

In the spirit of the open thread… Totally just tried to work up the courage to tell my incredibly religious sister that I’m probably gay? Didn’t happen. Nice phone conversation otherwise. :/ I’m really close to her and her family, there are just topics that we don’t discuss. I’m afraid to broach one, because that brings all the hate out.

I live far away from my family. I managed to tell my parents about ace-ness and liking the ladies (probably?) while I was visiting for Christmas, but it just never seemed to be the right time for my sister. I wanted to be able to do it when it would just be her and possibly her husband, because I didn’t want to deal with the kids. I wanted to have a car so I could escape right away, even though I realised later I could just walk over to the little strip mall and call either a cab or my parents.

I just wanted it to be done, so I didn’t have to worry about ‘what if’s anymore. We’ve already had the whole ‘love the sinner, hate the sin’ bullshit conversation, which I was angry about. Seriously, that is the worst crap…

I’m not involved with anyone, and I don’t know if I ever will be. I’d like to be. But I think one reason why it’s taken me so long (I’m in my early thirties) is because I didn’t want to deal with… Being different?

I know if I were to have a girlfriend, I would be really hesitant to bring them home. Which is awful, because I’m actually really close to my family, even the extremely Christian side of it. They’re a huge part of my life, and cutting them out would really hurt.

I’ve also been hesitant to even *go* home the past few years, knowing that I need to talk to this side of the family, knowing that I’ll face the rejection, and knowing that it’ll probably be the last time I’m going to feel comfortable going home.

Now the sister is coming to visit me. She’s going to be spending money to come out early, and we’re going to hang out. I need to tell her before they actually book things, because I don’t know if she’ll want to, or if I’ll want to. I need to talk to her.

It’s hard.

Top this all off with the fact that the doctor I wanted to get an appointment with isn’t currently accepting new patients because she’s moving practices. I have to find her new practice. I found out yesterday at work, after finally working up the courage to call. I didn’t realise how invested I was in this until it wasn’t going to happen.

It’s just a general check up, but I also need a tetanus booster and a few other things. I’ve needed to go to the doctor for a while, but I’m really shy about things. WHICH IS DUMB. I also want to take advantage of being currently covered under two insurances, but it doesn’t look like I moved fast enough to get the second one. It’s done in a week.

I was feeling so proud of myself that I actually called too… Gah.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

Firstly, assuming people fit a particularly ‘typical’ profile unless they prove otherwise. That belief that there’s some sort of ‘default normality’ can cause all sorts of problems.

I’m not assuming that they’re middle-class Anglophones because they’re people; I’m assuming that they’re middle-class Anglophones because they’re MRAs. I thought that would be obvious, since the number of MRAs who don’t fit that profile could be counted on one hand. They’re the most homogeneous group this side of the GOP.

And don’t talk about me instead of to me. I friggin’ hate that.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ IP

Done the survey; I’m intrigued!

The crash scenario is similar to something I’ve done before. But this time no-one is saying “Do you have any solutions that don’t involve eating the other survivors?” 🙂

guy
guy
5 years ago

Given just how readily available spellcheck is on the modern internet, and how I use it constantly (I’m not dyslexic but I misspelled “available” and my spellcheck caught it while writing) I feel it is reasonable to expect people to use it, but not to mock people for “rouge angles of satin” situations. Anything beyond automated spellcheck is more effort than it is reasonable for someone with dyslexia to apply to communication in the normal course of events. I have three browsers on my computer and all of them underline misspellings in red in this comment field.

Also, the complaining is not entirely born of a feeling of smug superiority. For me, reading a significant quantity of misspelled text is actively unpleasant. It’s like nails on a chalkboard. It’s been demonstrated that people can in general fnid the maineg of wrdos if all the letters are in there and the first and last are in the right place, but doing so is unpleasant.

arash
arash
5 years ago

@dust bunny
i take firm stand on my moral values but i don’t criticize anyone because they are different, i do it because they’re wrong (in my opinion obviously) and wrong and right happen to be different, this difference is a byproduct of how we define them and not the reason they’re called right and wrong.
so it has nothing to do with my agreement or disagreement, it’s not a matter of taste, i can agree with someone that a music is enjoyable but i won’t make a moral judgment about people who like it or not.
also it should be noted that if something is popular it doesn’t mean it’s right, everybody would disagree with and you still can be right so let’s avoid argumentum ad populum.

your other argument is that lazy is used unfairly and inappropriately, well which word isn’t! this word has not lost the meaning that i used and actually this definition is the accepted one, so just because some assholes label disabled people as “lazy” doesn’t mean we shouldn’t use it to describe healthy people that fit this definition

I’m disabled. If I was able to completely hide my disability, with the use of tools or medication or whatever, and then heard people mock someone else for merely looking and sounding vaguely like they have my disability, I’d feel pretty awful.

unlike a word like fag which is used to describe gay people and also insult others by comparing them to gay people, lazy is primarily used to describe healthy people without referring to any disabled person it’s an insult in itself without any comparison and when used against people like you it’s rather because of not acknowledging your disability.

I don’t think it requires either. We’re talking about an artificial barrier for participation that happened to fall along a class line. I’m not making literal claims about who first came up with the idea or why. Point is that we believe it today because it was a convenient excuse to discriminate against the disprivileged, and beliefs that serve that goal get propagated.

i’m not talking about “who” but “how”, because there are other alternative explanation for “how” it happened so if a class uses it, doesn’t mean it was invented by that class unless you prove your explanation with better reasoning and evidence.

zoon echon logon
zoon echon logon
5 years ago

I’m hopeless at arithmetic. If I add something up wrong, it’s still wrong. Syntax is inherently normative.

Leda Atomica
Leda Atomica
5 years ago

@ Rhuu

I just wanted it to be done, so I didn’t have to worry about ‘what if’s anymore. We’ve already had the whole ‘love the sinner, hate the sin’ bullshit conversation, which I was angry about. Seriously, that is the worst crap…

First of all, sorry you’re going through this. Second, I hate that “hate the sin” crap too. Mostly because I’ve grown disillusioned to the notion of ‘sin’, as a man-made concept of random “I’m better than you because…”. It’s not even a real thing! Anything can be a ‘sin’ and it’s made out as if it’s valid because *reasons*.

I hate that the fact of who you are has become a distressing factor within your family, and even though you may live far away or feel distant, they’re still in the back of your head as a family. The people who are supposed to care no matter what.

I’ve no idea about the point of my post but just wanted to offer you a big furry internet paw of support, in case you feel like it.

kupo
kupo
5 years ago

Does anyone find it ironic that Arash is justifying their grammar mocking while using terrible grammar?

Arash, there actually isn’t a right or wrong in grammar. Prescriptive grammar is recognized as flawed and linguists have moved on to descriptive. Language is fluid, and rules are redefined regularly. Your premise is faulty.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

I asked David in an email if it was OK if I asked some questions about a potential website about social conflict techniques, but I guess they are busy. Given the subject I still feel that I should ask, would anyone mind if I asked some questions having to do with this and surrounding context? I would start by answering EJ’s comment to me.
https://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2016/02/11/dude-is-mad-homophobic-slur-and-ethnic-slur-think-his-trump-shirt-promotes-hate/comment-page-10/#comment-680891
https://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2016/02/11/dude-is-mad-homophobic-slur-and-ethnic-slur-think-his-trump-shirt-promotes-hate/comment-page-10/#comment-679975

arash
arash
5 years ago

@SFHC

@arash
Go away.

you are convinced that you can change my mind, interesting.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
5 years ago

For me, reading a significant quantity of misspelled text is actively unpleasant. It’s like nails on a chalkboard. It’s been demonstrated that people can in general fnid the maineg of wrdos if all the letters are in there and the first and last are in the right place, but doing so is unpleasant.

Exactly. Just as spelling is an effort for some people, reading is an effort for others.

I can happily skip over typos, spelling and grammar if the content is interesting, but with memes like these, I become very aware of the processing costs involved, and resentful of the precious seconds of my life I just wasted trying to work out what it is they’re saying. It’s like solving a Sunday Times crossword clue, only the answer turns out to be “go jump in the ocean, you hypergamous slut”.

Leda Atomica
Leda Atomica
5 years ago

I’m not taking part in the spelling conversation as such, because the commenters here have lived up to my expectations of brilliantly put arguments.

It’s just that… how many times can you read “moslems” in a racist argument? You can’t even spell-check the people you hate with vigour!

guy
guy
5 years ago

Maybe this is because I am in computer science and our grammars are absolutely prescriptive, but I am not really altogether happy with saying that linguistic grammar is descriptive and we should not care about its use. There is no objectively correct standard of grammar, but using a consistent one reduces ambiguity.

Sure, in practical cases the meaning is usually clear, but the extreme is flipping subject and object with no clear indication, and I think we can all agree that would be a problem.

LG.
LG.
5 years ago

dust bunny –

I’m actually a big fan of Helen Fisher’s work in applying biology to anthropology and gender. Don’t get me wrong, she’s problematic as hell and very much researching to create profitable “Mars/Venus” models of love and gender, intensely prone to cishetero binary reductionism in how she interprets her own data.

But she’s smart, and the actual data and models she presents show a very different, very gender fluid picture of humanity before she paints her reductive narratives atop them. What she says about testosterone vs. estrogen brain systems was marvelously helpful to me in getting my own identity sorted out and in learning to understand just where our societal concepts of femininity and masculinity get it right and wrong as far as the biology.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

@kupo

To be fair to the annoying lump of banhammer fodder, Arash is ESL. Iranian, if I remember correctly.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ Leda

The Muslim/Moslem thing is interesting. Technically both versions are correct. There’s no agreed standard for transliteration from Arabic to English, so the ‘O’ versus ‘U’ thing crops up a lot. One example is CIA using Usama bin Laden and the Brits using Osama.

But the ‘O’ variant does seem to be beloved of islamophobes for some reason. It reminds me of how bigots in the 70s would say they were not ‘racialist’. They would not use the word ‘racist’, but it was a pretty clear red flag. (Of course racialist and racist have different meanings so they were even wronger)

kupo
kupo
5 years ago

@Guy
I’m also a computer scientist. Human grammar and computer grammar are very different. Prescriptive grammar is more like saying all programmers must use one specific coding standard (for example, starting curly braces on the same line rather than on a new line) and anyone who follows different rules is wrong.

Language has grammar, and people using a local dialect’s grammar are still following a set of rules. Sometimes people push the boundaries of those rules (this is where the analogy breaks down because computer language grammar can’t be bent in this way), and it’s because we push those boundaries that language is able to grow and adapt to our ever-changing environment. The problem comes in when you try to say that “y’all” or “ain’t no” or “bae” are wrong. They’re not wrong. They fit into the rules of a grammar that’s different from the one you prefer, but that doesn’t make them wrong.

guy
guy
5 years ago

It’s just that… how many times can you read ‘moslems’ in a racist argument? You can’t even spell-check the people you hate with vigour!

That actually isn’t an error, it’s a dog whistle. Muslim is an Arabic word, and as such was originally written in Arabic rather than the Latin alphabet. Languages that don’t use the Latin alphabet can be written in it by a process called romanization, where characters are converted to analogous letters or combinations in the Latin alphabet. The decision of what corresponds to what is somewhat arbitrary, and Japanese actually has multiple methods officially approved by the Japanese government*.

Moslem is actually an alternate romanization of Muslim. I don’t know the full backstory and there’s various rumors of questionable veracity about why, but Moslem was historically standard and at some point Muslim became considered more accurate, so people who still use it are generally being wrong on purpose and calling back to old attitudes. There’s also the Qur’an/Koran; I think Qur’an is preferred but I’ve seen both used by non-Islamophobes.

*one converts a given kana to the same romanji in all cases, the other focuses on sound rather than writing; sensei uses the first and the other would give it as sensee. There’s also some other schemes used by foreigners for entirely valid reasons regarding how they natively write long vowels or because romanizing a name to You got stupidly confusing.

Rhuu
Rhuu
5 years ago

@Leda Atomica: Thanks, I really appreciate the reply.

Sin is such a stupid concept, especially if you subscribe to the idea of an omniscient and all-powerful creator. If they made me like this, why would they decide that ‘Oh, right, those things you like? SIN. Sucker.’ and not do the same to other people? Why do some people play on a harder mode, involuntarily? (She says as a self-aware cis white lady who gets lots of other privileges.)

I think the worst part is that she doesn’t even realise that it is stressing me out, because I just carry on as normal. Right now we’re finding places on whatsapp for her stay, and talking about where we’re going to go.

I also wanted to talk to her when I was alone in my house, because I don’t want to cry in front of my room mates. Not that they wouldn’t be totally supportive! It’s more of the whole ‘this is intensely personal to me’ kind of thing.

I’ve got the house for another twenty minutes. I think I’m going to go and put some beers in the fridge and play dragon age: origins. It’s five o’clock somewhere, right?

Leda Atomica
Leda Atomica
5 years ago

@Alan

Technically both versions are correct. There’s no agreed standard for transliteration from Arabic to English, so the ‘O’ versus ‘U’ thing crops up a lot. One example is CIA using Usama bin Laden and the Brits using Osama.

I did not know this! I admit it’s a little bit ignorant of me to think “moslem” is incorrect then, but I thought “muslim” was a commonly agreed correct spelling of it in English.

But still, why insist on “moslems” or even sometimes “muslins” (that damned cloth!)? I just always took it as a sign of misspelling because mostly other parts of the arguments are usually woven of some randomly spelled words.

The racialist thing is interesting too. Whenever I’d go to England to see my friends, they seemed to use “racialist” to mock people with hidden racist values.

arash
arash
5 years ago

@kupo

Does anyone find it ironic that Arash is justifying their grammar mocking while using terrible grammar?

Arash, there actually isn’t a right or wrong in grammar. Prescriptive grammar is recognized as flawed and linguists have moved on to descriptive. Language is fluid, and rules are redefined regularly. Your premise is faulty.

yes language is fluid, but standardization is a matter of usefulness: if there is no standard then language falls apart and if standards are unchanging that language gradually dies.
my objection is to individual “errors”, their forms are rare and not some alternative grammar used by an underprivileged group.
so if there was no temporary agreement on what is right grammar then you wouldn’t say my grammar is terrible.

i’m just mocking their spelling, because there are so many tools available for spell checking but i’m not aware of any tools to check grammar so actually my grammar mistakes are way more justified than their spelling.

+english isn’t my first language, i’m more than happy if anybody corrects my errors 🙂

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

@Leda

Same reason why we hear “The Democrat Party” from Republicans, “Females” from MRAs and misgenderings from transphobes. They don’t think their SWORN ENEMY!!! deserves even that tiny ounce of respect.

Leda Atomica
Leda Atomica
5 years ago

@Rhuu

I hope you’ll make the best of it and that it won’t tax you too much! (There’s always hoping, right?)

And if it’s of any comfort it’s 20 minutes to 9pm in Finland. 😉 Cheers!

Why do some people play on a harder mode, involuntarily?

One of my favourite questions. Answer? An omnicient being would NOT create this rule.

You play ’em and beer ’em.

Leda Atomica
Leda Atomica
5 years ago

@SFHC

You said it!

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Imaginary Petal,
I’d be happy to help but I haven’t done it yet because I just woke up and am a bit groggy from the painkillers. Would you mind reposting the link sometime tomorrow just in case I or anyone is well meaning but forgets?

Ellesar,
George W Bush actually does have dyslexia, or maybe it’s not confirmed but just speculated. But as far as I know, that doesn’t have an effect on the ability to speak articulately. Considering the amount of privilege he has and the excellent education he had just handed to him, I’m guessing a lot of his issues with speaking well are a put on. He tries to sound an everyman Texan rather than a privileged prep school boy. People who wanted to buy it, did.

Arash,
Nobody cares about your obsession with the regressive left except Orange Tango Drinker. You should track him down on the YouTube comments sections of the videos he likes and talk about it with him there, because nobody here is interested. Stop trying to make fetch happen. It’s not going to happen.

Thread,
I kind of go back and forth on much of a fair target spelling is. It can absolutely be classist and ableist to make fun of the way somebody writes. On the other hand, incoherence seems to be a feature of the manosphere, not a bug. They can’t all have disabilities or come from impoverished backgrounds where nobody taught them how to write properly. Especially given the tendency of MRAs to be libertarians. Libertarians tend to be a very privileged group. I also think that if you’ve taken the time to sign your silly meme like it’s a great work of art, you should take the time to spell check a little. So I think in this case it’s okay to mock the spelling, but I’m judging the mockery of writing on a case by case basis.

Rhuu
Rhuu
5 years ago

@arash: You’re not using any capitalisation, which is not gramatically correct. Sentences start with a Capital letter.

If someone was worried about their grammar (and if I’m making something that will be seen by people, I typically am), you can use Microsoft Word’s grammar checker.

There are also add-ons for grammar checking, in firefox and chrome. I don’t know which browser you use, but I’m sure if there are add-ons/extensions, they’ll have grammar ones.

Perhaps they aren’t aware of add-ons that check spelling?

You saying “X is harder for me than Y is, so they should be doing Y right and it doesn’t matter that I’m not so good at X” is problematic. Anything can be justified like this, some people are better at some things than others. Some people have to just try harder to achieve what others see as a basic level of competency.

Having read this discussion, I still feel okay rolling my eyes at these types of spelling mistakes, petty as it is. The content is awful, and I’m judging the content someone put out there, and not the person. *proceeds to totally judge the person whoops* I guess I just mean that I’m likely to have already written this MRA off, since they are usually saying such terrible things?

I will try to be more accepting with spelling and grammar errors in posts online, however. You never know what their situation is, and I need to remember that.

@Leda: YES! I will totally take that as permission, haha.

guy
guy
5 years ago

@Kupo

Maybe it’s just that there’s this regular poster on another blog I read who uses that line of argument while actively being a jerk about it. No spaces after periods, it’s really annoying and I have never encountered anyone else who does it on purpose.

It is kind of like coding standards, but a given company usually uses fixed coding standards for a reason. None of them are objectively wrong, but using different ones creates confusion. I don’t mind people using grammatical patterns different from the ones I use, I mind people rejecting the concept of following grammar patterns in general, which is how I have encountered the argument in the past. I’d also object if someone used a grammar so different I can’t understand the meaning on a forum where it isn’t standard, but I’ve never seen that be an actual problem in English.

@Rhuu
Spellcheck is integrated into Firefox, Chrome, and Microsoft’s new browser. Grammar checking isn’t and also tends to be a bit imprecise. I might use Word for checking long-form posts but it tends to have trouble with HTML formatting.

arash
arash
5 years ago

@weirwoodtreehugger
and why are you so obsessed with me?! only you and SFHC have been displeased evidently and want to remain ignorant and try to silence me.
anyway it’s the second thread that i’ve ever mentioned regressive left, heaven knows how you define an obsession!

arash
arash
5 years ago

@Rhuu

Perhaps they aren’t aware of add-ons that check spelling?

Somebody uses internet regularly but doesn’t know even search engines can spell check?! i can’t believe it, sorry.

You saying “X is harder for me than Y is, so they should be doing Y right and it doesn’t matter that I’m not so good at X” is problematic. Anything can be justified like this, some people are better at some things than others. Some people have to just try harder to achieve what others see as a basic level of competency.

I’m not criticizing people randomly, my argument is that it’s impossible for a specific group of people (MRAs) to have so many tools at their disposal yet be “unable” to use them.
*MRAs are exclusively regular internet users, even their so called movement is mostly an online community.

Leda Atomica
Leda Atomica
5 years ago

and why are you so obsessed with me?! only you and SFHC have been displeased evidently and want to remain ignorant and try to silence me.

Another displeased here. Also, expressing opinions other than yours does not equal silencing. Silencing is a real social issue among oppressed groups and I wish you wouldn’t use that term so freely.

And even if it was just certain individuals voicing their thoughts against what you wrote, it doesn’t make their opinions less valid.

Leda Atomica
Leda Atomica
5 years ago

*MRAs are exclusively regular internet users, even their so called movement is mostly an online community.

Not true.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Apparently, remembering that someone was a troll in another thread constitutes an obsession now?

As this blog has a relatively small number of commenters, it’s really not that hard to remember when someone was a tedious asshole in the past.

Unless Arash was making a Mean Girls reference back at me? Not sure here.

kupo
kupo
5 years ago

@weirwoodtreehugger
and why are you so obsessed with me?! only you and SFHC have been displeased evidently and want to remain ignorant and try to silence me.

It’s not just them, you’re the one insisting on remaining ignorant, and you’re the one trying to inject your talking points into threads that have nothing to do with them in order to shout over others.

Fred_the_Dog
Fred_the_Dog
5 years ago

Grammar is more difficult to check with a program. Spelling, however, is easily checked with a program. Those who know they have a problem, and who want their (short) meme to be taken seriously, really should use spellcheck, unless it’s a “cheezburger” sort of meme. In that case, though, it really works best if one follows the unwritten rules of people’s ideas of “cat grammar”.

It’s not that difficult to take less than a minute to spellcheck something you hope will change hearts and minds, is it? However, people who like to rant don’t usually seem to care enough to do so; this may be because they feel superior enough to others that they don’t care what others think.

Speaking of large pills, we did a study where people had to swallow an actual camera. No lie. Apparently it’s a fairly easy way to get a good view of the upper colon. It was an incredibly tiny camera, but OMG it looked huge to me to be something to swallow. Plus, it was flushable afterwards (thank goodness, because I did not want to have to collect the thing); it transmitted its thousands of pictures to a capture device. Technology is amazing.

Dalillama
Dalillama
5 years ago

@WWTH
Ugh, wisdom teeth. I’ve had 3 removed in separate operations, and will undoubtedly need the 4th done too, but insurance won’t cover it until it’s abcessed or the like.
@Rhuu
*hugs* if desired. My sympathies.

@Chiomara
Glad to hear things are going a bit better for you. Sorry to hear about the nightmares.
@Imaginary Petal
I took the survey, but was not offered a chance to do the tasks; it just took me to a ‘thank you for participating’.
@Dust Bunny

I can’t see what other reason there would be to value correct spelling highly at all,

Because after a (fairly low) threshold, lack of universally consistent* spelling seriously impedes communication. Grammar is another matter; it’s really much easier to parse grammars that are variant from your default (IME, anyway).

*Consistent rather than correct, as while I have quite strong opinions as to which spellings ought to be used, it’s not important that those specific spellings be used as that everyone uses the same ones.

For me, reading a significant quantity of misspelled text is actively unpleasant. It’s like nails on a chalkboard.

Also this.
@guy

Maybe this is because I am in computer science and our grammars are absolutely prescriptive, but I am not really altogether happy with saying that linguistic grammar is descriptive and we should not care about its use.

Thing is, programming languages (and grammars), are really, really shitty and unnatural languages, because computers are really dreadfully bad at language.

@arash
People are ignoring you in the hopes that you’ll go away. Since that isn’t working, I’ll be another one who says it outright : go away.

arash
arash
5 years ago

@Leda Atomica

Another displeased here. Also, expressing opinions other than yours does not equal silencing. Silencing is a real social issue among oppressed groups and I wish you wouldn’t use that term so freely.

And even if it was just certain individuals voicing their thoughts against what you wrote, it doesn’t make their opinions less valid.

“nobody cares” or “shut up” or repeated accusation of being a troll or MRA are brand new forms of rational argument and not methods of Silencing?!
I wished there was more meaningful communication but they’ve made their choices.
I’m quite familiar with methods of silencing and i’m experiencing it on regular basis being a minority in a muslim society, and because of this experience i’m nearly immune to such tactics but no i’m not using it so freely.

Not true.

Almost exclusively, ok?

Chiomara
Chiomara
5 years ago

only you and SFHC have been displeased evidently and want to remain ignorant and try to silence me.

Just because people don’t directly talk to you, doesn’t mean they are not displeased. They may just be avoiding the endless, boring, long worded discussions.

why are you so obsessed with me?!

Baby, I wanna know!
Lying that you’re sexing me
When everybody knows
It’s clear that you’re upset with me
Oh, oh, oh.

Sorry, got carried out.

Chiomara
Chiomara
5 years ago

@Dalli
Thanks for the sympathy, hun. You’re the bestest.
(come at me, Mariash :p – just being silly to lighten up the thread.)