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antifeminism antifeminist women evil overpriced women evil sexy ladies evil SJWs MGTOW misogyny MRA

Men Going Their Own Way celebrate “I Hate Valentine’s Day”

Women, so demanding on Valentine's Day
Women, so demanding on Valentine’s Day

Happy Valentine’s Day! Or, as it’s known by a small and bitter segment of male humans who base their very identity on hatred of women, International MGTOW Day.

On Twitter, some of these lovely fellows are celebrating their freedom from having to possibly buy some evil succubus a box of candy.

https://twitter.com/JohnnyFoxRox/status/698888957115785217

Oh, and fantasizing about putting feminists and “Social Justice Warriors” in concentration camps.

https://twitter.com/JohnnyFoxRox/status/698895149586231297

Sorry, I should have specified that these concentration camps would be very nice concentration camps.

Speaking of which, our old friend Andrea Hardie/Janet Bloomfield/JudgyBitch popped into the #MGTOW hashtag today to make a joke about how Hitler killed himself because Eva Braun nagged him too much, or something.

https://twitter.com/AndreaHardie/status/698978316372545536

In general, though, it seems like the annual MRA/MGTOW freakout over Valentine’s Day is a bit more subdued this year than it has been in the past. Over on A Voice for Men they’ve gotten so lazy that all they did was to repost a couple of rants about the holiday they ran in previous years. (See here for my many dissections of Anti-V-Day rants from years past.)

Are these guys actually getting tired of their own stupid schtick?

Anyway, here’s a reminder that even beta orbiters can enjoy V-Day.

Happy Beta Orbiter Day!
Happy Beta Orbiter Day!

 

 

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Dalillama
Dalillama
4 years ago

@Chiomara

I’m a bit late for this but I saw your comment at work and wanted to say something similar to what folks have already said. Seeing your most recent post I’ll change it to echo what mechazawa said: good for you. You are a valid, worthwhile, and important person in your own right, and anyone who tries to take that away from you isn’t worth your time (and there are guys out there who aren’t total assbags, but there’s a whole lot of assbags to sift through, and here’s also plenty of wonderful ladies out there, of course, and persons of other genders, so best of luck on finding someone worth your while, or being single if that’s what works for you. Internet hugs, fluffy kittens, and other gestures of support.

Orion
Orion
4 years ago

*Noadi, sorry you’re feeling down. Best wishes.

Chiomara, sorry you’re feeling down. Best wishes also.

honestly think the best thing I can do to the world is get my head 24/7 into some kind of volunteer work and give up any kind of relationship with any human being forever.

Giving up on this one may be a good choice, but of course that’s not the same thing. You actually can’t and don’t have to give up anything forever until forever has come. You can choose to be single today, and choose to be single again tomorrow and tomorrow until there isn’t a tomorrow or until you make another choice.

There’s no man in the world who thinks I am worth of flirting

We debated – that’s literally my only way of interaction every since I am 12, debating – and I always ended up agreeing for lack of arguments.

I don’t know what is my goddamn problem. Can anyone explain?

Have you ever read anything about the psychology of gifted children? I just discovered that my girlfriend had not. If you already know all this, forgive me; if you don’t, may it bring you comfort.

It sounds like you were an extraordinarily gifted child. Debating academic topics at age 12 is one sign; befriending adults rather than other children is another. Gifted children almost always suffer from asynchronous development — some skills (intellectual, sometimes emotional) develop years early, while others (physical, social, or emotional) remain normal. Those skills can even fall behind because we prefer doing things we feel good at over things we feel bad at and because our gifts land us in environments where we have no opportunity to practice other skills.

For example, a child might have the intellectual ability to follow sophisticated arguments about abstract topics, but not the social confidence to stand your ground, awareness to spot manipulation, or knowledge to counter-argue. For another example, a teenager might not learn how to flirt or recognize interest because they spent their time reading and arguing with adults instead of socializing with other teens.

If you haven’t had much flirting in your life it’s because before you were 18, you weren’t ready, and since 18 you’ve been committed. It’s not because you’re uniquely unlovable. You are lovable, and you are brilliant, and if at 18 your thoughts were interesting to a 30-year old scholar who doesn’t respect women, at 21 they will be interesting to a 21-year old boy who does.

It’s like I am a teen asking for attention.

There’s nothing wrong with asking for attention, but yes, it’s a lot like being a teen. You haven’t been single since you were 18, so thinking about breaking up means dealing with stuff you haven’t worried about since then.

Dreamer
Dreamer
4 years ago

My dad with alzheimers at the nursing home knew who I was today! I brought him chocolates – and an artic cherry slushy, and I said “L’Chiam” when he took a sip ( a toast his best friend used to say that means “to life.” It turned into us toasting each other and him holding my hand. He’s forgotten language but I saw the spark of dad in his eyes. It was terrible and beautiful. I’m happy but my heart is breaking.

EJ (The Other One)
4 years ago

All my support, Chiomara. All my pecans too.

http://www.healthysupplies.co.uk/pics/200×200/pecan-close-sussex.jpg

It sounds to me like your boyfriend enjoys the power differential that comes from your age and experience gap, and is afraid to lose it. It also sounds as though he’s afraid to relinquish social power over even petty things like choice of words. As somebody who’s made the mistake of being in power-unequal relationships before, this doesn’t sound like it’s coming from a healthy place.

I used to be a lot like you describe him. It took me a long time to grow out of that place. One of the things I noticed about myself as I got better was that I had been dating my then girlfriend precisely because she let me be her mentor: that is, because she was pliable, eager to please and worshipped the ground I was walking on. When we first met this seemed to be the perfect relationship, but as I got healthier I realised that it was fundamentally dysfunctional and said very bad things about me. It also held both of us back: I was dating her mainly because I was afraid that someone my own age and experience would see through me and stand up for herself, and she was dating me because she felt worthless without my good favour.

(I broke up with her, and she was heartbroken, but a year later she met a man her own age who she could be silly and playful with. They’re engaged now. I’m really happy for them.)

This is why I agree with Paradoxy: I don’t think this is going to get better. I’m afraid that him dating you is, in itself, a symptom of his issues. I really, really hope I’m wrong about this.

My absolute best wishes for the ultimatum. I hope that goes well and I hope he has the humility to reconsider. You are a fantastic person and someone who deserves the best things, including all the pecans.

EJ (The Other One)
4 years ago

I had a great St Valentine’s Day.

We cuddled, watched Once Upon A Time In The West and Ring, and snacked. I went outside to get food, whereas she stayed in her bathrobe all day. It was excellent. No roses, no chocolates, but there was some nice fresh bread with pate and hummus.

We may or may not have done some more adult things too, but those will have to go unreported.

This is the first time in several years that I’ve been in a relationship rather than just sleeping around, and it feels excellent.

Nequam
Nequam
4 years ago

Chiomara: I’m awfully bad at offering relationship advice, but I sincerely hope you are able to find peace and contentment with your decision.

Monzach
Monzach
4 years ago

I’m sure this comes as no surprise to anyone on here, but I feel quite, quite fed up with these Hitler memes. I think this won’t change anything, really, but I still feel that it needs to be said: The reason Hitler killed himself in the Führerbunker had nothing to do with his relationship with Eva Braun. It had everything to do with the fact that the Red Army was almost literally on top of him and he, like the coward that he was, didn’t want to be captured and brought to Moscow to face a swift trial and execution.

There, rant over.

I had a pretty pleasant February 14th. Nothing special happened, apart from me talking to some friends online and going out on a lengthy walk. I’m pretty much a loner in real life so it suits me quite fine to be alone. I get my need to socialize met through then Internet, and to no small percentage through you lovely Mammothteers. 🙂

anonymous commenter
anonymous commenter
4 years ago

Yo EJ,

you’re clearly a very nice person with all the right values. But this isn’t the first time I’ve been so thoroughly grossed out by your posts I’m going to quit reading this comment section for a while.

You’ve reformed and everything and that’s great, it’s what we would hope for all White STEM Guys. What’s rubbing me the wrong way is you being so openly happy about all the women throwing themselves at you and all the liberated kinky feminist sex you’re having with them. That’s just a gross and inconsiderate thing to talk about from my perspective, I can’t speak for others maybe they bond with you through that shit.

You were The Enemy, you did and said all those bad things, and then you voluntarily stopped and nothing bad happened to you and now everything’s even better. You got to keep all your privilege. Good for you.

Meanwhile, many of us have been hurt by people like you. Maybe you took care not to hurt anyone while you were sleeping around, and maybe you succeeded, but that’s not necessarily the first thought that comes to mind when we read your words on it.

There’s no happy end for us. You know there are more feminist androphiles around than there are men who aren’t so sexist it’s inevitably going to hurt their partner, by a factor of at least a 100. We get to deal with being marginalized, and then we’re faced with a choice of being with an oppressor or just not ever having a chance to be partnered. That hurts. It’s really fucked up, and it feels so unfair that as a reward for not doing wrong anymore, you get to move into a dating pool skewed 100-1 in your favor.

I’m happy for you, but I really don’t want to be, because it feels like shit.

I’m saying this because you really seem like the kind of person who would want to know. I definitely don’t want an apology, please don’t feel like you need to offer one. This is just a rant, something I needed to get off my chest. I don’t even have a solution to suggest. I’m not going to ask you to censor yourself. You could maybe put content warnings or something on those of your posts that are at risk of unintentional privilege gloating.

Heartofaquamarine
Heartofaquamarine
4 years ago

So this year I found Valentine’s day actually really bothered me for the first time; I’m an aromantic asexual and I found the social pressures to be romantic really suffocating this year. I think it’s because I’ve moved away to start a PhD and so I don’t have all f my support networks that I usually do, but it’s still frustrating.

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

@Chiomara
You’re brave!

I’m glad you’re speaking up for yourself.

I don’t like the way others are telling you how good you are for him. What about how good he is for you?

All best wishes.

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

I’m sending good vibes to everyone who’s struggling right now or who had a tough Valentine’s Day.

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

@Chiomara

I’m happy for you that you’re standing your ground. It’s possible you might back down from the ultimatum, and if that happens I want you to know it’s not your fault, it doesn’t make you weak, and you shouldn’t be afraid or embarrassed to tell us about it. I’m not saying that I don’t have confidence in you, just that I know how difficult it can be to extract yourself from a relationship like this.

@Onionknight

Why on Earth would we disagree with you that MGTOWs should confront and come to terms with their feelings? And we’re fully aware here that men are capable of expressing emotions. We have several men who comment here and do just that. We’re not automatically going to disagree with you just because you identify as a MGTOW. It’s not the decision to go one’s own way we dislike, but the misogyny that many MGTOWs spew forth (notice the banner?).

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35542708

So it turns out that Saint Pope John Paul II didn’t completely go his own way (actually the Church’s way)–although there is no suggestion that he broke his vow of celibacy.

No word from the BBC on whether it would be okay for other priests to go camping with a close female friend.

It does seem as though he and his philosopher-friend had a very sweet relationship. (Also, no word from the BBC on how her husband felt about their friendship.)

estraven
estraven
4 years ago

We don’t do Valentine’s Day. It’s the anniversary of the day my spouse entered the military entirely against his will due to the draft, during the Vietnam War. We just ignore it now that the kids are grown. (When they were little we did cards, candy, etc. for them.) I remember the cold, dark, before-dawn drive to the military base where he would wait for the bus that took him to Texas for basic training. Nope, we don’t do Valentine’s Day.

Imaginary Petal (formerly dhag85, trying out pronouns - they/their)
Imaginary Petal (formerly dhag85, trying out pronouns - they/their)
4 years ago

We did Valentine’s Day on the 13th this year since we wanted to try out a new restaurant which happens to be closed on Sundays. It’s a brand new all vegan place, not too pricey, not very formal, interesting menu.

I had:
Deep fried jalapeno cheese balls
Seitan schnitzel with a mushroom sauce and roasted root vegetables
Chocolate biscuit with muscovado/butter filling

My wife had:
Salad of feta cheese style tofu, beetroot, walnuts, mixed greens
Chickpea/tempeh burger with a sourdough bun with coleslaw and roasted potatoes
Semla (like a sweet roll with almond paste and whipped cream)

The food was overall pretty great, but the desserts were meh (pre-made cafeteria style things). I’m just happy we finally have a decent vegan restaurant.

Supermeerkat
Supermeerkat
4 years ago

My partner and I made pizzas, drank prosseco and watched the Super Mario Brothers movie (as she likes bad movies), then she fell asleep on the settee and I played Fallout 4. Today we’re going to IKEA and having a cream tea afterwards.

Chiomara
Chiomara
4 years ago

@dalillama KITTEHS ACCEPTED.
TW:abuse
@Orion you just described me. I have always been the kid no one talks to until they need help with the final exams. I will read more on it. But about the flirting thing, though… The relationship is open, so I did put myself in situations where you expect flirting. And I swear, even though experiences of abuse are many, the experience of genuine interest or even sexual but respectful flirting are very close to none. I understand what you mean, but women don’t need to learn how to flirt. I mean, we do, but it’s not so important that it keeps us from any flirting AT ALL, but that’s what happened to me. My therapist said I need to change my body language and stop acting like a scared doe in a dark forest. That’s probably a reason. Along with being socially out casted, abuse started with me very young (maybe social outcasting gave me the “scared doe” vibe?), and I honestly often ask myself what is so wrong with me. A day a guy yell obscenities in my ear after a horrible make out session is a day I feel flattered because he’s interested and didn’t force.
I heard I scare men, I look too “difficult” and that’s why some avoid me and others come around solely to assert dominance, and now I heard I look scared and victimized, guys with good intentions don’t want to bother me and abusers see a victim in potential. I don’t know. But if I break up with this guy, I probably will be single a long time, cause every time I go to a bar my friends leave with pairs and I leave with frustration, disgust, and reasons to have PTSD nightmares for two weeks. Nah, I’m gonna stick my head in the studying.

DreadFluffyRises
DreadFluffyRises
4 years ago

I’ll admit it; I hate Valentine’s Day, and it’s implicit tone of failure if you’re single. I especially hate that now it seems to be morphing into Valentine’s Week, so you get bonus days of implicit failure. Thanks, guys in marketing, I felt like shit already, I just needed more of it.

Ddog
Ddog
4 years ago

Valentines day was actually fun this year. On sat night my boyfriend went to see Deadpool with his friends, I’m not a comic fan so bowed out and went with two new friends to a local pub where they where playing music by female artists! It was great lots of Arethra Franklin and Blondie! We called it galentines night and drank and sang and basically celebrated friendships which was lovely. My friend told me about when he came out as gay to his family and how great college was for him in getting comfortable with himself. It was a good night.

The next day my boyfriend made me breakfast and we cuddled and made plans for moving in together which we’re planning on doing this summer 🙂

All in all a good weekend. Much love and friendship to all mammotheers! Anyone going through a bad time at the minute I’m sending you all my support and just know that there’s always options so never feel like your situation is hopeless

Chiomara
Chiomara
4 years ago

@Dreamer Some people go with a boom, some people slowly and softly fade. Just feel very flattered that this happened. He loves you. Be strong. May everything be peaceful for the both of you.

@EJ YISSSS PECANS. I am sure he enjoyed the power I gave him. Who doesn’t like to be treated like a god. But I changed. Let’s see how the ultimatum goes. I will keep you guys informed.

@Nequam and @Kat :3 Thank you.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ chiomara

But if I break up with this guy, I probably will be single a long time

It’s always risky giving relationship advice to someone when you don’t know all the circumstances, I do feel the need to chip in about your comment there though.

I can understand both the social pressures and indeed the personal need to be in a relationship. But it does worry me a bit that you’re willing to put up with so much crap just to be able to be in a relationship. I don’t want to come out with all the usual platitudes about “you can do better” (although I definitely believe you can). When you’re on a particular state where perhaps your feeling a bit unloved and maybe unloveable then that’s as annoying as saying “plenty more fish in the sea”.

But I’m sure there are lots of people on here who could warn you about the consequences of tolerating bad people just because you think it’s the best you can do. I’ve seen how people can get into a trap of thinking like this, often encouraged by the people being horrible to them (“I’m the only one who would have you, you’re lucky.” etc.)

I get the impression you’re quite young. I certainly don’t want to patronise you but perhaps you lack the real world experience to see how desirable you actually are and that there are people out there who can make you happy without you having to put up with bullshit and abuse in exchange. Please don’t fall into the trap of letting this guy mould you into a mindset where you think you have to put up with crap just so you don’t ‘scare men off’.

Sorry to interject but a few red flags popped up.

Robjec
Robjec
4 years ago

Well I work at a fast food place that sold way to much food to couples today so that kind of sucked, but nothing so bad as any of you guys did.
Other then that it was a normal work day. Just really busy.

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

I’ve seen how people can get into a trap of thinking like this, often encouraged by the people being horrible to them (“I’m the only one who would have you, you’re lucky.” etc.)

Ugh, yes, mine used to do this. Including, “Can you blame me for not finding you attractive anymore? Look how fat you’ve gotten.” It’s a shitty way to treat people.

Delphi_ote
Delphi_ote
4 years ago

And he loves me too. He sacrificed so much for me, seems unfair I can’t simply avoid this subject with him so we can be together in peace.

Chiomara, I don’t know you that well, but the first sentence there and the second contradict one another. Loving YOU means respecting YOU and listening to YOUR opinions. The REAL you. Loving you for who you ARE, not who he wants you to be.

Even if you disagree, he should be able to respect you as a person and make you feel accepted. If he can’t manage that, he’s not meeting the #1 criterion for loving someone. You love a person by making them feel comfortable and welcome to be their true self. Love should cause you to grow, not wilt.

You shouldn’t be smuggling around the obviously interesting and thoughtful and sensitive person you are. You should feel proud and happy to be that person.

Dr. NicolaLuna
Dr. NicolaLuna
4 years ago

@anonymous commenter

I honestly don’t mean this to be confrontational, this is a genuine question. Could you please quote the bits of EJ’s post that makes you feel that way?

It’s just that I can’t spot the offensive bit. Not sure if you mean the part with his ex or the last part of the next comment where he said about sleeping around.

Chiomara
Chiomara
4 years ago

@Alan oh, I completely agree with you. But relax, though I do prefer to have a partner, I personally always saw myself ending up alone with 5 cats and 8 adopted children, and I really don’t have a huge problem with this. Yes, I am young. I hope I do meet good people more often than I had lately, in all circles of relationship.

@Kupo WOW, KUPO!what the hell?!? I am so so sorry. I hope you healed well. It never came anywhere close to this degree around here. Hope it never does.

@Delphi YOU CUTIE! Thank you for saying this *hug*

I love this freaking website, you guys are the bestest!

guest
guest
4 years ago

Hi Chiomara–oh man, I’ve been there–with my guy it was the word ‘bitch’ and he was all about the rules-lawyering (‘can I use it as a verb? can I say it if I’m reporting what someone else said? can I say it to describe a dog?’) Seriously, if he thinks it’s not that important how can it be worth all this effort and emotion on his part?

If I’d thought it appropriate for me to give you advice I’d have suggested you do exactly what you did. I hope it works out for the best, either way.

I’m actually posting this in order to share an essay with you:

http://www.shakesville.com/2009/08/terrible-bargain-we-have-regretfully.html

Delphi_ote
Delphi_ote
4 years ago

With all that sweet sincerity, I bet you’re damn good at flirting, Chiomara. I’m swooning over here!

EJ (The Other One)
4 years ago

Thank you, anonymous commenter. I am very glad you said that. I’m sorry that I’ve made this thread an unpleasant place for you to read and I’ll do my best to keep such content to myself from now on.

I appreciate that you don’t want me to censor myself, but (to me at least) it isn’t about censorship, but about being respectful to others within a shared space.

Valentine
Valentine
4 years ago

For me every day is valentines day XD

Orion
Orion
4 years ago

Chiomara,

If you want to read up more on giftedness, I would start here for some general observation on gifted behaviors and struggles (you can skip the table in the middle if you like): http://www.riage.org/articles/social-and-emotional-development-of-gifted-children/

then you could look at this article for thoughts on social development particularly: http://talentdevelop.com/articles/EATIC.html

I understand what you mean, but women don’t need to learn how to flirt.

You say this, but from the rest of your comments I think you know better. When you’re a woman it’s likely that at least some people will approach you, but there’s no guarantee that it will be anyone you would want. It’s usually still necessary to identify people you like and actively signal your interest, even if culture dictates you pursue in slightly different ways.

Your therapist may be right to say that your body language deflects attention, but I would also like to suggest that it’s quite possible that some people are showing interest and you’re failing to notice it. If you were very different from your teenage peers, it may very well be that you weren’t approached in school (by anyone who had your best interests at heart) and you didn’t learn how to recognize it.. Once you start to believe that you’re undesirable, that belief shapes your perception like any other. You’ll tend to ignore or misinterpret evidence that doesn’t fit your narrative. Also, if you’re gifted many of the appropriate partners for you will also be gifted. They may also be lacking confidence and social grace, and unable to show their interest in clear and direct ways.

Plus, being in an open relationship is really not like being single. Many good people won’t be interested, and you’ll spend a lot of time and energy on your partner.

All that aside, choosing to focus on studying and not worry about it too much for now may be a very good choice for you. (Or it may not — I’m in no position to say)

Valentine
Valentine
4 years ago

Whcih I spent far from home in the North Atlantic but at least cheif cook made coconut sponge cake. For all you singles feeling bad about valentines alone I suggest merchant navy life. I don’t even know what day of the week it is cos it doesn’t matter. Forget what holiday it is! 😉

Onionknight
Onionknight
4 years ago

@ kupo

Thanks for replying, but I do see there’s a misunderstanding. Far more likely the disagreement lies in relating topics as a whole than anything specific I’ve said. I could have clarified that more lucidly though.

It would seem that MGTOW works out for everyone well pertaining to emotions. As I said, this is one of the few conglomerations that encourages men to deal with their emotions productively. Yes, it can get a bit vitriolic, but these men know they’re not alone in their struggles. The boon for the feminist is that toxic masculinity is not prevailing (ie. progress is coming along), and these men, unless they’re undercover PUAs, are going to be weeding themselves out of the dating or marriage pool of candidates. I can only speak for myself, but it is far better that I work on self improvement and growth before getting myself involved in any relationship.

Unfortunately, the misogynist element, in at least to the extent of the mistrust of women, will continue to be heavily involved in the community due to the nature of the discussions. I would rather hate never be in the topics as I don’t feel it’s ever justified, but I recognize that that expectation is more or less a pipe dream. Regardless, thanks for the response.

Orion
Orion
4 years ago

Onionknight,

Why call yourself an MGTOW? People have been choosing not to date since before the internet. Plus, I thought the MGTOW philosophy involved swearing off dating for life, not temporarily while you work on yourself.

Noadi
4 years ago

Thanks everyone. The last few weeks have been hell emotionally and being sick on top of that hasn’t helped (apparently I’m one of the lucky percentage that the whooping cough vaccine wasn’t effective for). My brain knows I’m better off without him, I don’t need someone who so disregards my feelings and well being, but that doesn’t mean my heart doesn’t still really hurt.

mechazawa
mechazawa
4 years ago

@valentine; i hope this isn’t too off-topic, but i really like reading about the day-to-day life of people in careers like that. do you have any recommendations of blogs or stuff that’s related?

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

@Onionknight
The misogyny actually harms us women, so of course we are going to call them out on it. It’s not just a thought experiment for us. It causes us physical, financial, and emotional harm.

I’ve personally left feminist spaces where they got too hateful of men and fat acceptance spaces where they got too hateful of thin people. While it’s understandable for people to be angry with their oppressors (or perceived oppressors in the case of MGTOW), it’s still toxic and not a healthy space to be in. If you make a choice to stay there and not to contradict that hatred, you’re going to take in some of that anger and hatred yourself. At the very least, you’re implicitly condoning it.

Leda Atomica
Leda Atomica
4 years ago

I’m an animal rights activist but I don’t hang out with creeps from PETA. If you support a group, you support their values. I find “yeah, there’s hatred but…” very morally questionable, even though Onionknight clearly went out of his way to sound ‘moderate’.

Chiomara
Chiomara
4 years ago

@Orion
My. Thank you for those articles. I think I finally found out what happens (happened?) with me. The list of characteristics and problems in the first article, there’s not one thing I don’t identify with. Thank you very very much, really.

Hambeast, Social Justice Beastie
Hambeast, Social Justice Beastie
4 years ago

Husbeast and I went for lunch yesterday since dinner is impossible on V. day unless you want to wait an hour or more to be seated in a restaurant or have made reservations weeks in advance! For us, it’s more of an excuse to go out somewhere nice than a mandatory celebration, though.

My best wishes and thoughts for Dreamer and those who have sick dads. I really wanted to extend this more personally and in the right thread, but since losing my dad last Fall, these things get me right in the feels and frequently make me cry. Then I have to go do something else for a while. Today is a different day and Dreamer’s post made me smile instead of cry. Grief is weird!

WeirwoodTreeHugger
WeirwoodTreeHugger
4 years ago

But misogyny is a feature of MGTOW, not a bug. Their spaces aren’t just vitriolic, they’re filled with outright hate speech. Nothing wrong with preferring to be single, but there is something wrong with hanging out in a space that literally regards half the population as subhuman. Tolerating it, even if you don’t personally feel that enables violence against women. Something Davos Seaworth would never tolerate!

Luzbelitx
4 years ago

@Chiomara

I don’t have a lot of time, but I wanted to leave you this summary from the book “Why does he do that?” , detailing different profiles of abusers.

See especially “Mr. Right”, but it’s worth reading whole.

Love and hugs if you want them!

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
4 years ago

Nah, I’m gonna stick my head in the studying.

I’d recommend just waiting for a while until you feel like it’s time. Don’t worry about it until you’re ready.

Many of the best marriages I know didn’t start until the couple met in their 40s or 50s. At least one, in their 70s. The social pressure is “rush rush rush” but it’s really better to take your time, because having no partner is infinitely better than having the wrong partner.

Zatar
Zatar
4 years ago

Yes Janet some people might make the mistake of thinking that Hitler committed suicide because all of his ambitions had come crashing down around him and his enemy’s were coming for him but really it was probably because he was married. Especially when you consider the fact that he only married the woman after he had already decided to commit suicide. Truly you have discovered one of the missing links of history.

Ktoryx
Ktoryx
4 years ago

Wait, you guys. We might be passing up an opportunity.

Just how nice are these camps?

anonymous commenter
anonymous commenter
4 years ago

@ Dr. NicolaLuna

None of it was offensive. It’s all normal and acceptable. Normal and acceptable speech sometimes hurts weird people. I’m one such weird person. I tried to explain why it makes me feel bad in my earlier post. It’s not just what is being said, but who says it. Looking at this thread alone it’s not much, but this has been a recurring pattern for months now, maybe a year.

In case it’s still unclear: privileged person talks about all the nice things that he gets because he’s a “woke” privileged person and this gives him an advantage with members of the disprivileged group who then share said nice things with him, within earshot of disprivileged person, who can’t have nice things because most privileged persons are not “woke” and thus not safe to share said nice things with. This is made worse by the fact that privileged person reminds disprivileged person of unsafe privileged persons they’ve interacted with in the past, and could easily have been one such unsafe privileged person. The disprivileged person then sits thinking about how an unsafe privileged person who hurt her in the past may just decide to stop being unsafe and get as many nice things as he wants, but she doesn’t have that choice, and can’t have nice things, because it’s not safe for her.

It upsets me that the choice to reject patriarchal relationships, yet being able to have a relationship with any degree of certainty, is another way in which men are privileged over women.

@ EJ

Eh, I don’t think it’s censorship either, it’s just what I call that thing I do when I avoid certain topics out of kindness to those present. Self-censorship. I think you’re going beyond respect and well into kindness, too. Thank you.

Tracy
Tracy
4 years ago

Hugs to everyone who needs or wants them, esp @Chiomara and @Noadi and everyone for whom Vday (or any day) is tough.

@Orion – they weren’t for me, but thank you for posting those links. I’ve been reading quite a bit lately about issues that ‘gifted’ children tend to have (I was one) and working through some stuff.

@EJ I am with the other commenter who is genuinely confused about what in your posts is bothersome. I hope they return and explain.

This was a long weekend in Ontario as yesterday was Family Day, so we had a big family party. My fella and I don’t celebrate Vday. Though we did book our honeymoon – we’re getting married on our 20th anniversary in Sept. 🙂

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
4 years ago

I don’t want to put any pressure on the anonymous commentor to tell me what was wrong, since I understand that telling someone to go and read through some triggering stuff is a dick move, and that the “go and find me specific evidence of what I said” is often used as a silencing tactic. Whether or not I thought I said something hurtful, it ended up being hurtful, and that’s what matters.

Thank you for pointing out my privilege and I’ll do my best to do better in future.

ETA: I think the “anonymous commenter” account is a great idea, for when someone (a regular or not) wants to say something but needs the courage of anonymity to do so. Kudos for doing that.

weakling
4 years ago

I actually haven’t had my Valentine’s celebrations yet! I was in some pretty significant psychiatric distress (hypo/mania? mixed episode? something??? whatever it was it was rough! oof!), but my partner and our friends (we were planning a double date) agreed to move it, which honestly means the world to me. I’m so uncomfortable with how my debilitating my illness sometimes is, so it’s just so so lovely that they’re all being so understanding about it. I feel really lucky

PS: any ideas for cute vegetarian and lactose free things I could cook for valentines? We’re having a picnic 🙂

————————
@Chiomara

re: specifically the relationship, I really recommend the blog Captain Awkward, it’s an advice blog which includes lots of questions from people in situations like yours, and in my opinion offers really good and affirming, sensible advice, particularly focused on boundaries and respect. It’s really helped me in my life (though admittedly the issues I’m dealing with are pretty different), so maybe you would find it valuable too? 🙂

Orion
Orion
4 years ago

@the folks expressing confusion with the anonymous commenter, I feel I should say that I was nodding along as I read it.

@EJ,

It seems you’ve taken it to heart and don’t need to hear it from me, but I too had noticed for a while that you talked about our sex life more than was strictly necessary in a way that felt somehow unseemly. I didn’t say anything because I didn’t feel like the injured party, could not articulate what felt off, and feared looking the hypocrite if it turned out that people don’t love reading my frequent posts about the perks and challenges of conventional beauty and occasional references to my own history.

@folks reading the gifted stuff,

This piece is not strictly about giftedness, but it’s from a website for gifted resources and I suspect it will be familiar to many of you. It’s about procrastination, shame, and underachievement, so if thinking that is likely to bring you shame, be warned. http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/paralysis.htm