@Fifth Sibylline
So how does that relate to definition of sexism? I know it’s related to vaginas, I know it’s being turned onto an insult, and I agree that the previous connotations are going to be implicit parts of how it is insulting. But this does not relate to what sexism is yet. What is it about the nozzle?
As for witch-hunts, witch-hunts turn nothing into something. This is turning something into something. You have repeatedly attacked things of social importance to the feminist community without actually offering anything in the way of substantive evidence, you have claimed that you are part of some helpful group without any kind of substantive evidence, and now you want to rule spontaneous group criticism at genuinely offensive things as inappropriate when that is a tool that anti-feminists will hardly give up. Sure, you may still be genuine, but this is something that an anti-feminist troll would claim.
I’m fine with society as a whole doing something about dogpiling, and maybe you can get the others here to agree to limit it to 2-3 people, but otherwise I’m not feeling particularly sympathetic.
Crud, no one needed my oar about pronouns, especially so belated. Sorry.
isidore13
8 years ago
…Who here claimed to be a left radical?
Fifth Sibylline
8 years ago
You’re the one talking about how long it takes for something to go to before the UN, and claiming the appearances before the panel was unusual , therefore ZQ has Political and Economic Powers behind her, and we’re the ones claiming that there’s a conspiracy because we’re not impressed with your “insider knowledge”?
That’s the point.
I do know how this works, and it was especially quick. Instead of anyone saying: “Ok, cool – tell us how it works”… you’ve just done conspiracy theory, insults and “troll”.
For the (4th time) do you want the really boring process documents? They’re public knowledge, but I could drop the .pdfs for you.
I could also tell you about the time when Malaysia torpedoed our report on illegal slash / burn of rainforest and got got a number of allies (including Western ones) to vote against us being able to actually publish the paper.
This whole dogpile started when I (arrogantly) said: “Whoa.. ok, Law and Courts and stuff” in “opposition” to someone stating that a case was dropped.
There’s a difference between supporting someone and supporting someone and knowing how the system works.
But hey.
Dogpiling on me is more fun than the guy with the T-shirt, I’d imagine he’d not think this much.
So, yeah.
Anyone apart from me in this thread admit to being arrogant?
Falconer: I thought it was very prudent, and relevant to the conversation.
I do agree with Viscaria and everyone: Suggesting pronouns to someone when they’ve told you theirs is really rude, and it did seem very condescending of Fifth to say it the way they did.
EDIT: What is up with Fifth and assuming we were part of “dogpiling” Shirtgate guy? If anything, it’s making their claims of “Liberal feminist woman who works at the UN” far less credible (not that they had any in the first place).
Also, I had a good belly laugh at the “I said I’m arrogant, now you do it too, or else I’m right and you’re all meanie pants bullies!” shtick.
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
8 years ago
This whole dogpile started when I (arrogantly) said: “Whoa.. ok, Law and Courts and stuff” in “opposition” to someone stating that a case was dropped.
Does anybody else find it ironic that “Dogpile” has become a dog whistle?
Either way, thanks for letting us know that you’re a sock. Now to remember which other trolls typed like their enter keys were glued down…
Fifth Sibylline
8 years ago
What is it about the nozzle?
Oh dear.
As for witch-hunts, witch-hunts turn nothing into something. This is turning something into something. You have repeatedly attacked things of social importance to the feminist community
You do know that being penetrated without consent is the (smaller 1st wave) definition of rape, right? (that had a huge fight over to expand, right?)
So you’re asking me why having a NOZZLE involved is problematic?
A thing that’s designed to be shoved up places?
And this “feminist community” has no issue with it?
Hmm.
You might also want to work out, in your own head, if there’s any comparable male insult.
There’s not.
Try it for 20mins or so.
Try to think of something to bath your penis in acid and shove something up your urethra.
Trust me, it only exists in extreme BDSM gay kink, but have fun finding it.
Scildfreja
8 years ago
So it was a joke? Hee.
No, that wasn’t a “laughing at the joke”. Well, sort of. Meta. You seem to be an expert on meta-communication, so I’m sure you get it.
Yes, it takes a lot to get something done in the UN, no doubt. Anyone here disputing that? Don’t think so. Why are you talking about it?
Bottom line is, a basic – basic – principle of feminism is that you don’t doubt the victim. If Zoe Quinn says she has dropped suit because of harassment, that’s why. It may also be that there was difficulty with the case that might make a lawyer suggest to her that it would not succeed, and it may also be that the money wasn’t there, and it may also be a number of other complications, but if she says that she is dropping the case so that she can end the harassment, that’s her major motivation.
Feminists get this. Feminist allies get this. Decent human beings get this, though many need an introduction to the concept first.
Saying that she’s dropping the case due to the fact that she can’t win it when she’s saying otherwise indicates that you aren’t her ally and that you are a bad feminist if one at all. Coming in with this statement makes the implication that she is lying about her motivations – i.e. that she isn’t being harassed.
If you’re actually a feminist, cut out this annoying UN superspy nonsense and stop implying that the victims are liars and don’t understand the situations that they’re in.
Alan Robertshaw
8 years ago
@ dhag
Late to the party but congrats on the pronouns. If you don’t mind me asking, is that an issue in Scandinavian languages, or do they by have gender neutral pronouns anyway?
Excuse us if we doubt the claims to expertise of some Internet rando who barged into our conversation and took it over to tell us how ignorant we are, and try towin points by namedropping orgs that obv iously don’t want their names dropped.
Especially when said rando wants us to believe her over the plaintiff.
Fifth Sibylline
8 years ago
Either way, thanks for letting us know that you’re a sock.
Nope, ask Web owner.
I’ve literally only visited recently.
But you’ve checked the third tier for paranoia – expecting sockpuppets. And by doing so, you ignore the content of the posts.
“Dogpile” is quite a common term.
EDIT: What is up with Fifth and assuming we were part of “dogpiling” Shirtgate guy? If anything, it’s making their claims of “Liberal feminist woman who works at the UN” far less credible (not that they had any in the first place).
Because, you literally did.
Count the amount of call ins.
No engagement or de-escalation, all attacks (to users known to each other, track the common name checks).
Um.
Have you ever considered that running this kind of site might interest third parties who aren’t part of your clique or the people being attacked?
You came here. We didn’t go to you. Even if you post under this name elsewhere on the internet, we’re not going to go to other sites and pick fights with. You came here and starting insulting people. Did you expect a warm welcome when you opened with calling a well liked commenter’s post nonsense?
Who here claimed to be a left radical?
Don’t be silly and full of nonsense, Left Radical Feminist Sister! We don’t get to choose the labels with which we identify. Now that Fifth Troll is here to show us the light, Fifth Troll decides what our political and gender labels are. I used to identify as progressive, liberal or sometimes socialist leaning. Now I am a Left Radical Feminist Sister. I’ve always used she/her pronouns but now that I know ze is cooler, I guess I’m a ze/zir!
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
8 years ago
People lately have been equating “many people expressing their opinions about what I said that I don’t agree with” to “dogpiling” lately.
I’d like to say, dogpiling in the context of the rules and how they were created was about people dogpiling people about the comment rules against ableism which has curtailed it. It does not mean a large number of people responding to what you said with their opinions that disagree with yours.
However, people doing the countdown and gif spam would probably be considered dogpile but in the context of it being used against an obvious troll, it’s alright by comment rules since trolls do not have say in rules here, thus have to protection under the rules.
Thus Fifth Sibylline has no case as there’s no rule against it.
Imaginary Petal (formerly dhag85, trying out pronouns - they/their)
8 years ago
@Alan
I’ll reply in the morning. There’s a lot to say about that. 🙂
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
8 years ago
@douche
Hey, if you don’t like “Douchenozzle,” there are alternatives.
And if you still don’t like any of those, I can always keep going.
Fifth Sibylline
8 years ago
Bottom line is, a basic – basic – principle of feminism is that you don’t doubt the victim. If Zoe Quinn says she has dropped suit because of harassment, that’s why. It may also be that there was difficulty with the case that might make a lawyer suggest to her that it would not succeed, and it may also be that the money wasn’t there, and it may also be a number of other complications, but if she says that she is dropping the case so that she can end the harassment, that’s her major motivation.
Saying that she’s dropping the case due to the fact that she can’t win it when she’s saying otherwise indicates that you aren’t her ally and that you are a bad feminist if one at all. Coming in with this statement makes the implication that she is lying about her motivations – i.e. that she isn’t being harassed.
Oh no.
No.
No.
You accept that that’s her perceived reason for dropping it.
You’re on a site that spends its time looking at the fringe, and then are like “whelp, fuck looking at the evidence, we’ll just let her get burnt at the stake when chuckles-knuckles-McBiggins spends 34 hrs dredging through the text for inconsistencies and then post them on forums and get a twitter storm going”.
No.
You look at the documents and you cross-reference every point refuting that all to squash the 48-72 hr flash fire in social media with calm arguments and data and it dies.
That is being an ally.
Or, you know, you could spend 3+ months on it.
Fuck yeah, allies!
Fifth Sibylline
8 years ago
Or, you could just SHOUT
BAD ALLY
BAD ALLY
DOGPILE
TROOOLLL
And then wonder why 3 months later she’s still getting grief.
Anyone else find it creepy that Sister Fifth Troll keeps on referring to David as the owner? This is isn’t a fucking chan. He isn’t an anon. His real name is all over the site. There’s even a FAQ about him.
Really not selling the “ally” assertion by speaking like a channer.
Have you ever considered that running this kind of site might interest third parties who aren’t part of your clique or the people being attacked?
Just a thought.
A veiled threat. That’s so feminist and ally-like of you!
Seriously. We don’t say things here that we don’t stand behind. At least I don’t. Go the fuck ahead and archive yourself showing your ass here.
@Fifth Sibylline
Some of how you are replying is kind of nonsensical. I’m hoping that you can clear it up.
I am aware of how the definition of rape was changed, and I’m even aware that feminists were pushing for that change as well. But I’m not really seeing the connection to rape here and frankly this is trivializing rape. How is the nozzle a penis, and how it is connected to rape.
The problems I saw people having with douching was that it amounts to control of female people by making them engage in unnecessary cleaning, and it perpetuated this idea that vaginas were gross. While I am willing to consider the idea that “douchenozzle” is a sexist insult that should be dispensed with, you really are not offering much in the way of a good position.
I see the insult as suggesting that you are in fact performing a similar function to the douche, you are trying to control female related issues and you are being useless. Given the number of female people that consensually douched, I’m not seeing the rape connection. Female people do a lot of things via social pressure that we would not conflate with rape (really, I hope you explain it, it’s pretty fucking insulting). Still, it would be the female people that I would listen to about the actual connotations.
There are in fact male insults that are sexist and I avoid them. While you are going find things insulting the way you will, the way you are presenting it is just not realistic regardless of your feelings on the matter. Just because there is no male mirror image of that insult does not make it sexist.
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
8 years ago
Is M[redacted] a pet shop, by any chance?
Fifth Sibylline
8 years ago
Anyhow, have fun on a Trump T-Shirt.
Been a riot.
Oh, and
To even get close in the real world (not the US forced stuff) you make stuff like this
(and that’s just a puff piece / working doc to get things started).
There’s a reason everyone laughed at ZQ/AS @ the UN – their paper was rubbish, it was yellow-cake levels of rubbish, and worse still: it ignored all the hard-working people who actually spend 8+ years of their lives working on solving violence against women.
We Hunted The Mammoth
Good night, all. This has been pointless. Let’s hope the troll’s been banned by morning.
@Fifth Sibylline
So how does that relate to definition of sexism? I know it’s related to vaginas, I know it’s being turned onto an insult, and I agree that the previous connotations are going to be implicit parts of how it is insulting. But this does not relate to what sexism is yet. What is it about the nozzle?
As for witch-hunts, witch-hunts turn nothing into something. This is turning something into something. You have repeatedly attacked things of social importance to the feminist community without actually offering anything in the way of substantive evidence, you have claimed that you are part of some helpful group without any kind of substantive evidence, and now you want to rule spontaneous group criticism at genuinely offensive things as inappropriate when that is a tool that anti-feminists will hardly give up. Sure, you may still be genuine, but this is something that an anti-feminist troll would claim.
I’m fine with society as a whole doing something about dogpiling, and maybe you can get the others here to agree to limit it to 2-3 people, but otherwise I’m not feeling particularly sympathetic.
Crud, no one needed my oar about pronouns, especially so belated. Sorry.
…Who here claimed to be a left radical?
You’re the one talking about how long it takes for something to go to before the UN, and claiming the appearances before the panel was unusual , therefore ZQ has Political and Economic Powers behind her, and we’re the ones claiming that there’s a conspiracy because we’re not impressed with your “insider knowledge”?
That’s the point.
I do know how this works, and it was especially quick. Instead of anyone saying: “Ok, cool – tell us how it works”… you’ve just done conspiracy theory, insults and “troll”.
For the (4th time) do you want the really boring process documents? They’re public knowledge, but I could drop the .pdfs for you.
I could also tell you about the time when Malaysia torpedoed our report on illegal slash / burn of rainforest and got got a number of allies (including Western ones) to vote against us being able to actually publish the paper.
This whole dogpile started when I (arrogantly) said: “Whoa.. ok, Law and Courts and stuff” in “opposition” to someone stating that a case was dropped.
There’s a difference between supporting someone and supporting someone and knowing how the system works.
But hey.
Dogpiling on me is more fun than the guy with the T-shirt, I’d imagine he’d not think this much.
So, yeah.
Anyone apart from me in this thread admit to being arrogant?
I’ll put my hand up first.
“Y’all ain’t convincing radical lefties!”
Well, where did we claim to be radical lefties? You claimed you were.
Falconer: I thought it was very prudent, and relevant to the conversation.
I do agree with Viscaria and everyone: Suggesting pronouns to someone when they’ve told you theirs is really rude, and it did seem very condescending of Fifth to say it the way they did.
EDIT: What is up with Fifth and assuming we were part of “dogpiling” Shirtgate guy? If anything, it’s making their claims of “Liberal feminist woman who works at the UN” far less credible (not that they had any in the first place).
Also, I had a good belly laugh at the “I said I’m arrogant, now you do it too, or else I’m right and you’re all meanie pants bullies!” shtick.
Does anybody else find it ironic that “Dogpile” has become a dog whistle?
Either way, thanks for letting us know that you’re a sock. Now to remember which other trolls typed like their enter keys were glued down…
What is it about the nozzle?
Oh dear.
As for witch-hunts, witch-hunts turn nothing into something. This is turning something into something. You have repeatedly attacked things of social importance to the feminist community
You do know that being penetrated without consent is the (smaller 1st wave) definition of rape, right? (that had a huge fight over to expand, right?)
So you’re asking me why having a NOZZLE involved is problematic?
A thing that’s designed to be shoved up places?
And this “feminist community” has no issue with it?
Hmm.
You might also want to work out, in your own head, if there’s any comparable male insult.
There’s not.
Try it for 20mins or so.
Try to think of something to bath your penis in acid and shove something up your urethra.
Trust me, it only exists in extreme BDSM gay kink, but have fun finding it.
So it was a joke? Hee.
No, that wasn’t a “laughing at the joke”. Well, sort of. Meta. You seem to be an expert on meta-communication, so I’m sure you get it.
Yes, it takes a lot to get something done in the UN, no doubt. Anyone here disputing that? Don’t think so. Why are you talking about it?
Bottom line is, a basic – basic – principle of feminism is that you don’t doubt the victim. If Zoe Quinn says she has dropped suit because of harassment, that’s why. It may also be that there was difficulty with the case that might make a lawyer suggest to her that it would not succeed, and it may also be that the money wasn’t there, and it may also be a number of other complications, but if she says that she is dropping the case so that she can end the harassment, that’s her major motivation.
Feminists get this. Feminist allies get this. Decent human beings get this, though many need an introduction to the concept first.
Saying that she’s dropping the case due to the fact that she can’t win it when she’s saying otherwise indicates that you aren’t her ally and that you are a bad feminist if one at all. Coming in with this statement makes the implication that she is lying about her motivations – i.e. that she isn’t being harassed.
If you’re actually a feminist, cut out this annoying UN superspy nonsense and stop implying that the victims are liars and don’t understand the situations that they’re in.
@ dhag
Late to the party but congrats on the pronouns. If you don’t mind me asking, is that an issue in Scandinavian languages, or do they by have gender neutral pronouns anyway?
Excuse us if we doubt the claims to expertise of some Internet rando who barged into our conversation and took it over to tell us how ignorant we are, and try towin points by namedropping orgs that obv iously don’t want their names dropped.
Especially when said rando wants us to believe her over the plaintiff.
Either way, thanks for letting us know that you’re a sock.
Nope, ask Web owner.
I’ve literally only visited recently.
But you’ve checked the third tier for paranoia – expecting sockpuppets. And by doing so, you ignore the content of the posts.
“Dogpile” is quite a common term.
EDIT: What is up with Fifth and assuming we were part of “dogpiling” Shirtgate guy? If anything, it’s making their claims of “Liberal feminist woman who works at the UN” far less credible (not that they had any in the first place).
Because, you literally did.
Count the amount of call ins.
No engagement or de-escalation, all attacks (to users known to each other, track the common name checks).
Um.
Have you ever considered that running this kind of site might interest third parties who aren’t part of your clique or the people being attacked?
Just a thought.
You came here. We didn’t go to you. Even if you post under this name elsewhere on the internet, we’re not going to go to other sites and pick fights with. You came here and starting insulting people. Did you expect a warm welcome when you opened with calling a well liked commenter’s post nonsense?
Don’t be silly and full of nonsense, Left Radical Feminist Sister! We don’t get to choose the labels with which we identify. Now that Fifth Troll is here to show us the light, Fifth Troll decides what our political and gender labels are. I used to identify as progressive, liberal or sometimes socialist leaning. Now I am a Left Radical Feminist Sister. I’ve always used she/her pronouns but now that I know ze is cooler, I guess I’m a ze/zir!
People lately have been equating “many people expressing their opinions about what I said that I don’t agree with” to “dogpiling” lately.
I’d like to say, dogpiling in the context of the rules and how they were created was about people dogpiling people about the comment rules against ableism which has curtailed it. It does not mean a large number of people responding to what you said with their opinions that disagree with yours.
However, people doing the countdown and gif spam would probably be considered dogpile but in the context of it being used against an obvious troll, it’s alright by comment rules since trolls do not have say in rules here, thus have to protection under the rules.
Thus Fifth Sibylline has no case as there’s no rule against it.
@Alan
I’ll reply in the morning. There’s a lot to say about that. 🙂
@douche
Hey, if you don’t like “Douchenozzle,” there are alternatives.
Douchebag. Doucheface. Douchecanoe. Doucheweasel. Douchepipe. Douchesuitcase. Douchetastic. Doucheahol. Douchealicious. Doucheachu.
And if you still don’t like any of those, I can always keep going.
Bottom line is, a basic – basic – principle of feminism is that you don’t doubt the victim. If Zoe Quinn says she has dropped suit because of harassment, that’s why. It may also be that there was difficulty with the case that might make a lawyer suggest to her that it would not succeed, and it may also be that the money wasn’t there, and it may also be a number of other complications, but if she says that she is dropping the case so that she can end the harassment, that’s her major motivation.
Saying that she’s dropping the case due to the fact that she can’t win it when she’s saying otherwise indicates that you aren’t her ally and that you are a bad feminist if one at all. Coming in with this statement makes the implication that she is lying about her motivations – i.e. that she isn’t being harassed.
Oh no.
No.
No.
You accept that that’s her perceived reason for dropping it.
You’re on a site that spends its time looking at the fringe, and then are like “whelp, fuck looking at the evidence, we’ll just let her get burnt at the stake when chuckles-knuckles-McBiggins spends 34 hrs dredging through the text for inconsistencies and then post them on forums and get a twitter storm going”.
No.
You look at the documents and you cross-reference every point refuting that all to squash the 48-72 hr flash fire in social media with calm arguments and data and it dies.
That is being an ally.
Or, you know, you could spend 3+ months on it.
Fuck yeah, allies!
Or, you could just SHOUT
BAD ALLY
BAD ALLY
DOGPILE
TROOOLLL
And then wonder why 3 months later she’s still getting grief.
Isis wept.
Anyone else find it creepy that Sister Fifth Troll keeps on referring to David as the owner? This is isn’t a fucking chan. He isn’t an anon. His real name is all over the site. There’s even a FAQ about him.
Really not selling the “ally” assertion by speaking like a channer.
A veiled threat. That’s so feminist and ally-like of you!
Seriously. We don’t say things here that we don’t stand behind. At least I don’t. Go the fuck ahead and archive yourself showing your ass here.
http://imagesmtv-a.akamaihd.net/uri/mgid:file:http:shared:mtv.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Come-at-me-bro-1434131761.gif
@Fifth Sibylline
Some of how you are replying is kind of nonsensical. I’m hoping that you can clear it up.
I am aware of how the definition of rape was changed, and I’m even aware that feminists were pushing for that change as well. But I’m not really seeing the connection to rape here and frankly this is trivializing rape. How is the nozzle a penis, and how it is connected to rape.
The problems I saw people having with douching was that it amounts to control of female people by making them engage in unnecessary cleaning, and it perpetuated this idea that vaginas were gross. While I am willing to consider the idea that “douchenozzle” is a sexist insult that should be dispensed with, you really are not offering much in the way of a good position.
I see the insult as suggesting that you are in fact performing a similar function to the douche, you are trying to control female related issues and you are being useless. Given the number of female people that consensually douched, I’m not seeing the rape connection. Female people do a lot of things via social pressure that we would not conflate with rape (really, I hope you explain it, it’s pretty fucking insulting). Still, it would be the female people that I would listen to about the actual connotations.
There are in fact male insults that are sexist and I avoid them. While you are going find things insulting the way you will, the way you are presenting it is just not realistic regardless of your feelings on the matter. Just because there is no male mirror image of that insult does not make it sexist.
Is M[redacted] a pet shop, by any chance?
Anyhow, have fun on a Trump T-Shirt.
Been a riot.
Oh, and
To even get close in the real world (not the US forced stuff) you make stuff like this
http://www.unep.org/greeneconomy/Portals/88/documents/research_products/MeasuringProgress.pdf
And so on
(and that’s just a puff piece / working doc to get things started).
There’s a reason everyone laughed at ZQ/AS @ the UN – their paper was rubbish, it was yellow-cake levels of rubbish, and worse still: it ignored all the hard-working people who actually spend 8+ years of their lives working on solving violence against women.
You’re all a joke in the international community.
http://i.imgur.com/vXhY9rV.jpg