I know you didn’t ask me, but I have to admit that I’m not a rally driver. I guess…I guess that I’m a bad Finn. *sobs* 🙁
Skiriki
8 years ago
Monzach: TORILLA TAVATAAN. 😀 I am in Central Finland, dunno where everyone else is, and soon I gotta stay at home because KITTIES. Namely, see that they settle in and stuff. My place is welcoming, though. And I’ll even promise to bake nummies.
Alan: We know who are our modern day male heroes and men name themselves accordingly, but it is a good thing that nobody knows the secret names of our Fempire’s agents and heroines. ALL HAIL KATI! I mean, *khm* Katie.
Monzach
8 years ago
@Skiriki
Well I live in a small settlement on the South Coast. You may have heard of it, Helsinki? 😀
I hope Central Finland is getting a bit more snow, and in more permanent form, than we are this winter. It’s been a constant relay race between snow and rain these past couple of weeks…
Sorry to derail the thread, but come on, this is pretty much the most Finns in one place on the Internet that I’ve seen. 😀
WeirwoodTreeHugger
8 years ago
I guess I’m Nordic adjacent, being from Minnesota and partially of Norwegian and Swedish descent.
Nordics (and pseudonordics like Finns) are awesome. It’s no wonder that the cool places on the web would attract them.
I have some friends up in Oulu, if that helps, and a university friend in Tallinn, which isn’t in Finland but I’m told that the locals like to think that it is.
Skiriki
8 years ago
Monzach:
Oh yeah, that place. I hear y’all don’t even have wolves there! How the heck you toughen up the kids and teach the difference between puppies-ok-to-pet and puppies-NOT-ok-to-pet?
And when it comes to snow, this place is currently pretty miserable. It is more like sky dandruff than proper snow and a lot of it went away when we got a week-long rainfall.
WWTH: I’m sure I have enough authority to declare you a honorary-definitely-Nordic. And everyone else who wants to be. You want to be one? Come here, let me declare you one. 😀
Alan Robertshaw
8 years ago
Any of our Finnish friends familiar with the band Sielun Veljet (or L’amourder as they are in the UK)?
Loved that lot.
Alan Robertshaw
8 years ago
@ skiriki
I was born in the Danelaw and I would have rooted for the other side at the Battle of Stamford Bridge. Can I be one please? 🙂
ETA: I also love the film Trollhunter and know a lot about the Telemark Heavy Water raids.
Monzach
8 years ago
@Skiriki
Ah well, that’s why we keep the other parts of Finland around, so that we can send our youngsters out there to learn how to be proper Finns in the forests. 😀
It’s too bad that you’re not getting much snow, either. I have to wonder how we’re going to survive now, since we’re not getting toughened up by a proper winter…
@Alan Robertshaw
I really like Sielun Veljet a lot. I used to live quite near to the singer of that band, Ismo Alanko and I’d see him every now and again. Perks of living in a small-ish city in a small country, I guess. 😀
opposablethumbs
8 years ago
::trying slightly too earnestly to be a little bit cool:: I’m a quarter Norwegian – according to the little bit of family history I know, at least (never met that grandmother, unfortunately, or indeed any of the Norwegian distant relatives, but they’re definitely there somewhere – someone apparently decided to do a big genealogy project a few years ago, and tracked us all down).
Skiriki
8 years ago
Alan:
Absolutely! *bops Alan with an icicle-magic wand* You’re now a honorary Nordic! Enjoy!
And yes, I know Sielun Veljet, I’m in that age slot where they were a pretty big name in my childhood, and so on. Not a huge fan, though I won’t scream if I somehow end up hearing their music, more like “okay, that was a thing”.
Monzach: Yeah. Maybe we’ll need to build halls with icy, cold conditions where people can wield sticks… wait. We already got those, never mind.
Monzach
8 years ago
@Skiriki
It has been a long time since I’ve last visited one of those temples to true Finnishness, since I really can’t stand modern ice hockey. 😛 I know, I know, I’m showing even more treasonous tendencies than you dared expect.
Imaginary Petal (formerly dhag85, trying out pronouns - they/their)
8 years ago
I once thought maybe I would be able to trace my ancestry back to something cool. My grandfather worked his way back to the mid 1700s to some guy who had almost exactly my name and lived pretty much down the street from us. -_-
Alan Robertshaw
8 years ago
@ monzach
When they exile you, you won’t even be able to go to Canada!
Verily Baroque
8 years ago
@Alan, IP, Skiriki et al.
Special thanks for IP for the Swedish language lesson. That was fascinating. I had noticed a news article about the hen debacle but didn’t realize the word was “invented” already in the 60s.
Adding to Skiriki’s excellent explanation on the personal pronouns in Finnish: “se” (=it) is widely used in some dialects to refer to everyone and everything – human beings and inanimate objects alike – to the degree that referring to someone as “hän” (=personal pronoun he/she) will cause people to wonder whether you are subtly insulting the person in question or speaking overly stiltedly for some reason.
In writing, however, referring to someone as “se” in the exact same context would be insulting (unless we are talking about extremely unofficial writing like chat messages or such). You can bet this makes writing dialogue in novels (and translating foreign novels) interesting. To quote a friend studying linguistics: “Spoken and written Finnish are rarely similar but occasionally they do happen to have something in common”.
IP also mentioned impersonal pronouns a few comments back and I started thinking about them. Finnish doesn’t have them at all. We change the ending of the verb and add the object usually in front of the verb.
For example (Swedish offered at the end for IP’s comfort since it also uses a similar system in addition to the impersonal pronouns IP introduced):
Hän soittaa. = He or she calls/will call. (Yes, our present tense also works as our future tense.) = Han eller hon ringer.
Hänelle soitetaan. = He or she is called/will be called. = Han eller hon rings.
By the way, the verb “soittaa” can be translated as “to call” only in the “… by using a phone” sense, not in the “haul your ass here already” sense.
By the way #2, one of the main reasons I comment so rarely is because no one likes random “Well, on the other hand, in LANGUAGE X [insert an off-topic teal deer]” comments…
@Alan, scildfreja, SFHC
Wait, is Bronto back or not back?
I still remember the moment when I was in a museum and a lady working there told me that triceratops may not have existed. To exaggerate: something in me died that day :’C
Alan Robertshaw
8 years ago
@ skiriki
Thank you! I now promise to drive round all corners on just two wheels.
Just stuck SV on. Ah, nostalgia and ‘peltirumpu’ is such a cool word.
Monzach
8 years ago
@Alan Robertshaw
I’ll just have to come over to Britain, and take your jobs and your women, then. 😀 Massive sarcasm tags, naturally.
EJ (The Other One)
8 years ago
By the way #2, one of the main reasons I comment so rarely is because no one likes random “Well, on the other hand, in LANGUAGE X [insert an off-topic teal deer]” comments…
This is the least true thing I’ve ever heard anyone say, ever, and I voted for Tony Blair. Random linguistics teal dears are amazing and my life needs more of them.
Verily Baroque
8 years ago
Yikes, everyone and their aunt commented while I was writing my teal deer
::embarrassed::
Skiriki
8 years ago
EJ (The Other One): Well it sure is more fun than dull trollery 😀
Monzach: No probs, I’m a hockey heretic as well, we’ll burn merrily together.
Verily Baroque: Or as they say about Savonian dialect… “Kirjoitetaan ‘venesatama’, lausutaan ‘puattipoukama’.” (Sorry, translating that is not happening right now, head too exhausted…)
Alan Robertshaw
8 years ago
@ monzach
Well you’ll have to ask the women yourself of course, but come on over. The more the merrier. (For old times sake, sneak in via Lindisfarne)
Monzach
8 years ago
@Skiriki
Your Savonian dialect example reminds me of a pretty much untranslatable joke: What’s Tarzan called in Savo? Pöhheikön piällysmiäs. 😀
Almost all my family comes from the Karelia region of Finland so I have lots of dialect jokes from Eastern Finland and even the area that…used to be Finland. *sobs*
ETA
@Alan Robertshaw
I’ll have to build my own dragon ship, but I’ll try and see if I can sneak up to the Holy Island once I’m driven out of my ancestral homeland.
Skiriki
8 years ago
Monzach:
*ksnrk* My gran was from Northern Savonia, and I’ve spent my summers and winters there, with her brothers, their wives and farms. I can speak that fiendish dialect at will. 😀
I also know how to detect and dodge a falling cow patty when you’re roughly two and half feet tall and helping to clean a cow shed, and there’s always that one cow who times her poops for that.
Kind of semi-useless now, now that I’m 5’6″ and spending my time in cities.
But, time to scamper. Getting late, I’m old and creaky, and headache has faded mostly away. Hyvvee öit vaa kaikille.
Verily Baroque
8 years ago
@EJ (The Other One)
You are entirely too kind. I am verbose at the best of the times and can talk about languages for ages, so be careful for what you wish for. 😉
@Skiriki
Or as they say about Savonian dialect… “Kirjoitetaan ‘venesatama’, lausutaan ‘puattipoukama’.”
Truer words were never spoken. Also a mandatory comment about listeners and responsibility and their relation to one another.
(There’s a saying that when someone from Savo starts speaking, the audience is responsible for the consequences. Essentially caveat emptor but for listeners.)
A rough translation of Skiriki’s original comment is “It’s written ‘venesatama’ and pronounced as ‘puattipoukama’.”
Both words mean “a port (for boats)”.
EJ (The Other One)
8 years ago
Hang on, Finnish has dialects? I didn’t think there were enough of you to have dialects. That would be like, say, us Afrikaners having dialects.
@Alan Robertshaw
I know you didn’t ask me, but I have to admit that I’m not a rally driver. I guess…I guess that I’m a bad Finn. *sobs* 🙁
Monzach: TORILLA TAVATAAN. 😀 I am in Central Finland, dunno where everyone else is, and soon I gotta stay at home because KITTIES. Namely, see that they settle in and stuff. My place is welcoming, though. And I’ll even promise to bake nummies.
Alan: We know who are our modern day male heroes and men name themselves accordingly, but it is a good thing that nobody knows the secret names of our Fempire’s agents and heroines. ALL HAIL KATI! I mean, *khm* Katie.
@Skiriki
Well I live in a small settlement on the South Coast. You may have heard of it, Helsinki? 😀
I hope Central Finland is getting a bit more snow, and in more permanent form, than we are this winter. It’s been a constant relay race between snow and rain these past couple of weeks…
Sorry to derail the thread, but come on, this is pretty much the most Finns in one place on the Internet that I’ve seen. 😀
I guess I’m Nordic adjacent, being from Minnesota and partially of Norwegian and Swedish descent.
Nordics (and pseudonordics like Finns) are awesome. It’s no wonder that the cool places on the web would attract them.
I have some friends up in Oulu, if that helps, and a university friend in Tallinn, which isn’t in Finland but I’m told that the locals like to think that it is.
Monzach:
Oh yeah, that place. I hear y’all don’t even have wolves there! How the heck you toughen up the kids and teach the difference between puppies-ok-to-pet and puppies-NOT-ok-to-pet?
And when it comes to snow, this place is currently pretty miserable. It is more like sky dandruff than proper snow and a lot of it went away when we got a week-long rainfall.
WWTH: I’m sure I have enough authority to declare you a honorary-definitely-Nordic. And everyone else who wants to be. You want to be one? Come here, let me declare you one. 😀
Any of our Finnish friends familiar with the band Sielun Veljet (or L’amourder as they are in the UK)?
Loved that lot.
@ skiriki
I was born in the Danelaw and I would have rooted for the other side at the Battle of Stamford Bridge. Can I be one please? 🙂
ETA: I also love the film Trollhunter and know a lot about the Telemark Heavy Water raids.
@Skiriki
Ah well, that’s why we keep the other parts of Finland around, so that we can send our youngsters out there to learn how to be proper Finns in the forests. 😀
It’s too bad that you’re not getting much snow, either. I have to wonder how we’re going to survive now, since we’re not getting toughened up by a proper winter…
@Alan Robertshaw
I really like Sielun Veljet a lot. I used to live quite near to the singer of that band, Ismo Alanko and I’d see him every now and again. Perks of living in a small-ish city in a small country, I guess. 😀
::trying slightly too earnestly to be a little bit cool:: I’m a quarter Norwegian – according to the little bit of family history I know, at least (never met that grandmother, unfortunately, or indeed any of the Norwegian distant relatives, but they’re definitely there somewhere – someone apparently decided to do a big genealogy project a few years ago, and tracked us all down).
Alan:
Absolutely! *bops Alan with an icicle-magic wand* You’re now a honorary Nordic! Enjoy!
And yes, I know Sielun Veljet, I’m in that age slot where they were a pretty big name in my childhood, and so on. Not a huge fan, though I won’t scream if I somehow end up hearing their music, more like “okay, that was a thing”.
Monzach: Yeah. Maybe we’ll need to build halls with icy, cold conditions where people can wield sticks… wait. We already got those, never mind.
@Skiriki
It has been a long time since I’ve last visited one of those temples to true Finnishness, since I really can’t stand modern ice hockey. 😛 I know, I know, I’m showing even more treasonous tendencies than you dared expect.
I once thought maybe I would be able to trace my ancestry back to something cool. My grandfather worked his way back to the mid 1700s to some guy who had almost exactly my name and lived pretty much down the street from us. -_-
@ monzach
When they exile you, you won’t even be able to go to Canada!
@Alan, IP, Skiriki et al.
Special thanks for IP for the Swedish language lesson. That was fascinating. I had noticed a news article about the hen debacle but didn’t realize the word was “invented” already in the 60s.
Adding to Skiriki’s excellent explanation on the personal pronouns in Finnish: “se” (=it) is widely used in some dialects to refer to everyone and everything – human beings and inanimate objects alike – to the degree that referring to someone as “hän” (=personal pronoun he/she) will cause people to wonder whether you are subtly insulting the person in question or speaking overly stiltedly for some reason.
In writing, however, referring to someone as “se” in the exact same context would be insulting (unless we are talking about extremely unofficial writing like chat messages or such). You can bet this makes writing dialogue in novels (and translating foreign novels) interesting. To quote a friend studying linguistics: “Spoken and written Finnish are rarely similar but occasionally they do happen to have something in common”.
IP also mentioned impersonal pronouns a few comments back and I started thinking about them. Finnish doesn’t have them at all. We change the ending of the verb and add the object usually in front of the verb.
For example (Swedish offered at the end for IP’s comfort since it also uses a similar system in addition to the impersonal pronouns IP introduced):
Hän soittaa. = He or she calls/will call. (Yes, our present tense also works as our future tense.) = Han eller hon ringer.
Hänelle soitetaan. = He or she is called/will be called. = Han eller hon rings.
By the way, the verb “soittaa” can be translated as “to call” only in the “… by using a phone” sense, not in the “haul your ass here already” sense.
By the way #2, one of the main reasons I comment so rarely is because no one likes random “Well, on the other hand, in LANGUAGE X [insert an off-topic teal deer]” comments…
@Alan, scildfreja, SFHC
Wait, is Bronto back or not back?
I still remember the moment when I was in a museum and a lady working there told me that triceratops may not have existed. To exaggerate: something in me died that day :’C
@ skiriki
Thank you! I now promise to drive round all corners on just two wheels.
Just stuck SV on. Ah, nostalgia and ‘peltirumpu’ is such a cool word.
@Alan Robertshaw
I’ll just have to come over to Britain, and take your jobs and your women, then. 😀 Massive sarcasm tags, naturally.
This is the least true thing I’ve ever heard anyone say, ever, and I voted for Tony Blair. Random linguistics teal dears are amazing and my life needs more of them.
Yikes, everyone and their aunt commented while I was writing my teal deer
::embarrassed::
EJ (The Other One): Well it sure is more fun than dull trollery 😀
Monzach: No probs, I’m a hockey heretic as well, we’ll burn merrily together.
Verily Baroque: Or as they say about Savonian dialect… “Kirjoitetaan ‘venesatama’, lausutaan ‘puattipoukama’.” (Sorry, translating that is not happening right now, head too exhausted…)
@ monzach
Well you’ll have to ask the women yourself of course, but come on over. The more the merrier. (For old times sake, sneak in via Lindisfarne)
@Skiriki
Your Savonian dialect example reminds me of a pretty much untranslatable joke: What’s Tarzan called in Savo? Pöhheikön piällysmiäs. 😀
Almost all my family comes from the Karelia region of Finland so I have lots of dialect jokes from Eastern Finland and even the area that…used to be Finland. *sobs*
ETA
@Alan Robertshaw
I’ll have to build my own dragon ship, but I’ll try and see if I can sneak up to the Holy Island once I’m driven out of my ancestral homeland.
Monzach:
*ksnrk* My gran was from Northern Savonia, and I’ve spent my summers and winters there, with her brothers, their wives and farms. I can speak that fiendish dialect at will. 😀
I also know how to detect and dodge a falling cow patty when you’re roughly two and half feet tall and helping to clean a cow shed, and there’s always that one cow who times her poops for that.
Kind of semi-useless now, now that I’m 5’6″ and spending my time in cities.
But, time to scamper. Getting late, I’m old and creaky, and headache has faded mostly away. Hyvvee öit vaa kaikille.
@EJ (The Other One)
You are entirely too kind. I am verbose at the best of the times and can talk about languages for ages, so be careful for what you wish for. 😉
@Skiriki
Truer words were never spoken. Also a mandatory comment about listeners and responsibility and their relation to one another.
(There’s a saying that when someone from Savo starts speaking, the audience is responsible for the consequences. Essentially caveat emptor but for listeners.)
A rough translation of Skiriki’s original comment is “It’s written ‘venesatama’ and pronounced as ‘puattipoukama’.”
Both words mean “a port (for boats)”.
Hang on, Finnish has dialects? I didn’t think there were enough of you to have dialects. That would be like, say, us Afrikaners having dialects.
Which we do, so that’s a bad example, I suppose.