This is just getting surreal.
The Daily Mail — yes, that Daily Mail — has tracked Roosh to his mother’s house in Silver Spring, Maryland, where he is currently living. In the basement.
The location of the pet shop has yet to be determined.
So, yeah. The Daily Mail literally staked out Roosh’s mom’s house, and snapped a few pictures of the man himself answering the door, looking a bit flustered, in a pit-stained t-shirt, after he called cops to the house to discuss the threats he’s been getting from people around the world unamused by his allegedly satirical article advocating the legalization of rape on private property.
Meanwhile, in the House of Commons — yes, that House of Commons, the one in London — Members of Parliament have been mocking the size of Roosh’s … following. As reported on Metro.co.uk,
Labour MP Chi Onwurah went a step further than this, suggesting he was ‘so insecure in his own masculinity’ that he felt the need to ‘augment the size of his… following’ – prompting giggles from around the Commons chamber.
Home Office minister Karen Bradley joined in, adding: ‘I join her in her comments about perhaps the reasons why this individual is doing what he is doing, ensuring he is getting publicity, in a way perhaps he needs for other reasons. I’ll say no more.’
Wink wink, nudge nudge. Say no more!
Oh, and Anonymous — yes, that Anonymous — now says it plans to dox Roosh’s supporters. Highlighting the many ironies here, their announcement of what they call Operation Glasgow Kiss borrowed most of its language from Roosh’s plan, announced several days ago, to dox journalists who’ve written about him in ways he doesn’t like.
Anonymous Operation all can participate in. #OpGlasgowKiss#TurnAwayReturnOfKings #ReturnOfKings #RooshV pic.twitter.com/dxIO4PzrYF
— Anonymous (@YourAnonCentral) February 3, 2016
Also, Roosh’s mom — no, not really Roosh’s mom — now has a Twitter account.
Have I missed anything? I’m pretty sure I have.
What do I make of all this? I’m frankly torn.
I’m certainly heartened to see so many publicly rebuking Roosh’s truly abhorrent ideas. Even if Roosh’s call to end rape by making it legal were absolute, 100% satire, he’s written literally hundreds of other things just as bad, if not worse, a point I made in my International Business Times piece yesterday. (For many more examples, take a stroll through my posts on him in the We Hunted the Mammoth archives, or read through the posts I highlighted here.)
It is also a little hard for me to feel much sympathy for Roosh on the doxxing question, given that he and his followers are simply having done to them what he has already done — or tried to do — to those he considers his enemies, including, well, me.
Does anyone remember the time he launched a campaign to “destroy” (his word) the life and reputation of a female journalist by falsely accusing her of (anti-white) racism?
“How far lost is Western society,” Roosh asked on Twitter, “if fat, ugly Indian [name and gendered slur redacted] has a platform to denounce a productive, intelligent white man?”
In a followup post, he explained that
Unless she’s applying for a position at Jezebel, no respectable company will touch a toxic individual who has been linked to racism. …
It’s a slow-burn attack that will effectively punish these writers and scare their co-workers , whose income is low enough that they need to depend on corporate employment indefinitely … It won’t work on the big liberal writers like Jessica Valenti or Naomi Wolf, since any attention they get just helps them sell more books, but it does work on the young girl out of college trying to win feminist brownie points by denouncing a man for being “creepy” based on a bad joke.
And then he compared it with something he seems to have a certain amount of experience with:
Having your name destroyed on Google is the internet version of getting raped.
That’s right. He was comparing the smear campaign he was launching to rape — in what he saw as a good way.
I discuss some of Roosh’s other harassment campaigns, (as well as a violent and creepy revenge fantasy he posted on his blog) here and here.
So, yeah, Roosh isn’t having anything done to him that he and his followers haven’t done to others, with the exception of having actual MPs make unflattering insinuations about his penis in the House of Commons. Then again, if some MP were to call the target of one of his harassment campaigns a “fat ugly” c-word, I’m sure he’d be cackling with glee.
But at the same time, the public shaming of Roosh makes me deeply uneasy.
The Daily Mail literally staked out his mom’s house in order to get photos of him answering the door. He’s been doxxed; no doubt some of his followers will be as well. And I also have little doubt that Roosh is indeed getting the threats he says he’s getting. The answer to Roosh’s internet bullying isn’t to bully him back.
While some of the ironies of the current situation are admittedly a bit delicious — the man who preens on Instagram holding wads of cash turns out to be literally living in his mom’s basement — let’s not lose sight of the real issues here. There’s nothing inherently shameful about living in mom’s basement, or having a small … following. Indeed, jokes about Roosh’s penis rather trivialize the issues at stake here.
We should be exposing Roosh’s noxious ideas and behavior, not his mom’s address.
The real issues here are, I think, fourfold:
Roosh is teaching an abhorrent, woman-hating philosophy that encourages men to bulldoze past a woman’s no’s in order to, as Roosh puts it, “get their nut.”
Roosh is preaching bigotry — against women, against people of color, against LGBT folk, even against that familiar scapegoat, the Jews. Already a conduit for many of the noxious ideas of the “alt right,” Roosh seems well on his way to becoming a literal Nazi.
Roosh is a bully, using his followers as his own personal army in an attempt to “destroy” individuals he doesn’t like, most of them women. He was a supporter and enabler of the roving internet harassment squad known as GamerGate
Roosh’s own writings strongly suggest that he may be a serial rapist.
It’s that last one that troubles me the most, as it probably does most of you. If it’s true, I hope that the police return to his door, not because of threats he’s been getting online, but to arrest him. Will the current media firestorm over Roosh encourage women to come forward with specific charges against him? We will see.
In many quarters (such as the Daily Fail) that’s exactly what it will be. I’m hanging onto the hope that overall, it may prove to be something a bit more useful – a fairly widely disseminated public repudiation of PUA crap is a good thing in itself, after all.
As for the doxxing and possible threats, I agree with the reminders that that shit is never OK. They should have just doorstepped him (as a minor public figure of his own making) with no suggestion of his address, especially considering someone else lives there.
At the same time I totally own up to the fact that I am all schadenfreuded out. It ultimately shoots us in the foot for anyone to go in for small-dick jokes, but – ah, if only the joke hadn’t been one that actually reinforces patriarchal bullshit! – I can’t help thinking how good it is that this nasty piece of work is literally being laughed at out loud by women and men in a very public way.
@Curry:
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I’m not comfortable with what’s happening to Roosh.
Don’t get me wrong, he’s a slugtrail of snot and all, but I think that if we mock him, it should be for his shitty views and just general awfulness, not unsubstantiated dick jokes and “loser in his mom’s basement” jokes.
I don’t approve of doxxing at all either. He might deserve to be uncomfortable, but I think as a general rule, doxxing is immoral, no matter who it’s directed at.
I can understand why some people would find it cathartic, but I don’t think this is the way to go about it.
The line here is thin, I think, but it needs to be respected.
Publishing/distributing his address or phone number: out-of-bounds. I’ve come around on this, in no small part because of getting schooled by, I think it was katz, on this very site. Tactics that can lead to violence are never okay, in no small part because saying they are acceptable when the target is reprehensible makes it easier for abusers to say that they are doing it for the same reason. So, nothing that aids/abets harassment or threats is valid in the long run. I’ll go one step further–people actually sending threats should be subjected to the same punishments I want for men who send threatening messages to Anita Sarkeesian.
Likewise, penis jokes feed the very environment we want to see eliminated. I may have had a dark fantasy about pumping lead-filled water into the Michigan governor’s mansion, but in the end, even if one can say he and his staff ‘deserved it’, the end result is even more tainted water in our overall supply. Toxic masculinity is social poison; we need cleanup to be unimpeded by digs of this nature.
However, the fact that he lives in his mother’s house (basement or otherwise)? As long as it can be presented without the identifying location info… yeah, that’s valid. My admittedly television-derived understanding of the law says that sometimes, evidence cannot be brought into play unless the other side introduces it first, ‘opening the door’ to a further examination of the claims. This seems like a reasonable rule in non-legal settings, as well. In this case, Roosh’s overall lifestyle is very much a part of what he, himself has opened the door to. He wants people to believe that he’s flush with cash, has an army of followers worldwide who support a lavish lifestyle of travel and glamour. By setting up that claim, he invites it being exposed as a lie, and this does that.
Similarly, shaming him online, so long as it follows the rules I mentioned in the first two paragraphs, seems valid as well. He chose this as the arena for his bullshit; he deserves to get refuted here.
Yes, I agree totally that the doxxing and the threats are never OK, even when they happen to people we can’t stand. Even when they happen to people we think have done the same or worse to others.
And his poor Mum, too. That is really not good.
I agree also with the comments about the penis jokes. I understand the temptation to reach for the nearest cruel mockery, but… nope, I’d like my elected representatives to do better than that.
And (pace our resident size queen troll) the gifts of nature are neither here nor there when it comes to being an awful person or a decent one.
I find myself living in surprising times, when appalling fascists have gone seamlessly from posting memes on social media about how women lie about rape (“I’m not saying always, but like, a lot, almost always.”) to posting memes about protecting “OUR women” from marauding rapists, just so long as those rapists might be refugees and the victims white, or “White and Christian”. (Because, y’know, that makes all the difference. /s)
And now the Daily Mail cares about rapists too. Whoda’ thunk it? I have to remind myself that bad things are bad even when the Mail says they are.
I hope if there are any victims of this awful man’s awful ideology out there (I’d say the odds are good) they gain the courage to come forward.
I wonder if anyone who has been assaulted by his devotees following his “How To…” guides would have a case against him too?
Quick question for Australians:
Are the sydney morning herald, the age, the brisbane times, the canberra times, and WAtoday all run by the same company? Do they regularly post the same stuff, at least where national news is concerned?
I feel bad for his mother, and I would not want to see him swatted.
But don’t make me pretend to feel sorry for him at all. He fell ass over teakettle into a pit of suffering he was digging for others.
@ zoon
People have addressed the Roosh situation very well.
Personally I think it’s a really bad idea, whatever anyone may think, to refer to what’s happening to Roosh in a positive light on this site. It gives ammunition to the “Feminists are just as bad” crowd but more importantly, it leaves David open to lots of shit.
But as to the Shkreli incident, I’m part of the animal rights spectrum that believes direct action can be appropriate. There’s room for persuasion and pressure of of course. Publicising what really goes on at Seaworld has had the effect of fewer people going. That’s really hit profits and may make them change their practice for purely economic reasons (although as whale captivity is their raison d’être we’re essentially asking them to shut up shop, so that’s the aim really)
But that’s pressure through lawful means. Pressure through unlawful means is different, not least because it can amount to being a serious criminal offence.
I’m aware of an organisation that has been accused of unlawful practices. However, if that is the case (which we would deny) then such practices are solely in order to prevent certain activities being possible, it’s not to put pressure on the people carrying out those activities to stop. Perhaps a subtle distinction, but a distinction nonetheless.
The activity carried out against Shkreli did actually have a real effect. Canned hunting has taken a big hit in terms of numbers. If it gets to the stage where it becomes financially unviable then that’s the aim. Now the question is, did people cancel their hunting trips because the publicity and dialogue that followed educated them into realising how wrong they were, or were they just frightened off?
So there’s a dilemma, do we say we shouldn’t sink to the level of people like Roosh, or do we say anything that makes it less likely people will publicly advocate rape is justified?
I don’t think it’s wise to discuss any conclusions on David’s website.
I cautiously agree if you can thread the needle of criticizing his lifestyle for not being what he claims while not criticizing his lifestyle for being inherently bad. (If it turned out he was a virgin, for instance, that would be extremely funny, but not because there’s anything inherently mockable about being a virgin.)
Doxxing is bad.
I’m pretty sure he’s not going to learn anything from it either, honestly. He’s part of a large crowd that seems to follow the “but it’s okay when WE do it” line of thought.
I do think it’s funny that he lives with his mom, but do we even really know that for certain? I used to live about half an hour away from my parents and occasionally when I visited them I’d stay over for a weekend.
Nothing wrong with living with one’s parents, either, (I’ve done that as well) but it definitely gives the lie to his claims about his lifestyle, which goes to credibility.
I too am hopeful that everything Doosh has ever written anywhere was just his fevered dream and now he has woken up to the smell of burnt coffee. This sums up my theory of every “big shot” misogynist I’ve had the pleasure to become aware of. Sad people living in their heads, lying on the internet because they are too confused to seek the headwaters of pain.
It would also be a slight relief because it would mean that he hadn’t actually raped all the women he claimed to.
The real irony would be that MRAs who make such a thing about “false rape allegations” were actually falsely claiming to have raped. More mind boggling from the world of professional misogyny.
Too much to handle all at once.
Schadenfreude overload, mixed with pity for the fact that such humans as Roosh even exist. I wonder how he’ll be spinning this, and actually, I hope he is too much of a narcissist for self-harm.
That too.
Psst. Shkreli isn’t the dentist who shot Cecil the Lion. Shkreli’s the guy who decided to hike the price of Daraprim from $13.50 to $750. Per tablet. Not per case or per bottle. Per tablet. Thirteen dollars and fifty cents versus seven hundred and fifty dollars.
Daraprim is used in the treatment of malaria, and has been beneficial for HIV-positive patients.
On that article from the Canadian journalist; I’m not a big fan of the narrative that manospherians are just lonely, awkward, frustrated etc. I’ve been all those things at various points in my life. Somehow, I’ve managed never to join a hate group. It’s skirting dangerously close to the notion that men won’t hurt us if we’re nice enough to them.
There was a Cracked article the other day that did the same thing. It was about what it’s like to be unpopular and awkward and bitter about it. A lot of it was relatable, then he said that the habit of modern feminists talking about Nice Guys and entitlement online would have turned him full MRA, do good thing tumblr wasn’t a thing when he was a teenager. The fuck? Apparently, misogyny is all the fault of women and girls having the gall to talk to each other about the angry and misogynistic reactions they sometimes get for saying no.
It just makes me so mad. It completely erases women and girls who have trouble fitting in and it puts the burden on us to fix men’s anger and be the emotional caretakers for an entire fucking gender.
Sorry for the offer topic ranting.
@Alan
Shkreli’s the AIDS-profiteering asshole, not the lion-murdering asshole.
@ Vicki P & SFHC
The fact I don’t know that the dentist was Walter Palmer proves I can have had nothing to do with what happened.
I did like this Yelp review though
Cheers for the heads up though. The situation regarding essential drugs in the US is one of nearly infinite reasons I’m so grateful for our NHS
@ Alan
You’re welcome. I wish I were in a position to be grateful for an NHS.
Well, as they always say about those who hunt monsters… And this is coming from someone who pretends to be a dragon online.
Doxxing isn’t okay, and I don’t think it should go that far… But Anonymous is what it is… They’re all over the spectrum of exposing things.
The dick joke just happened… Although I admit that I am quite guilty of dropping “dick deflating” comments all the time.
Living with your parents past 18 isn’t something to necessarily be ashamed of, especially with all the economic turmoil we still have right now.
However, with all these things considered, we must remember who exactly this Roosh and other members of the manosphere are; they’re generally nasty people who degrade both men and women with this idea of what the world should be in their minds. It’s a by-product of the era of New Sincerity where people are unaware of the fact that if it weren’t for things like feminism and equal rights, we wouldn’t have over half of the stuff we have now.
(Oops, I didn’t even notice the ninja!)
In other news, I’ve only just discovered that the nearby Sea World is completely unrelated to the American SeaWorlds, which explains why ours is awesome, with triple the tank sizes, top-notch breeding and rescue programs and no orcas, and theirs seem to boil down to murdering cetaceans for money. So. I don’t feel guilty about enjoying it anymore.
@ WWTH
To me, that’s such an obvious belief of the MRA/Incel crowd that it’s not even tacit.
Their hero worship of Elliot Rogers and his ilk, and their constant refrain of “I wouldn’t blame someone if the behaviour of modern women did make him snap and kill lots of women” isn’t a commentary on the men who do this; it’s a direct threat.
MRA output isn’t really directed at men, it’s aimed at women.
Comparing rape victims to paedophiles may have given the MRA readers a chance to share a sneer, but primarily it was intended to abuse and victimise rape victims even further.
The “Don’t be surprised if someone kills uppity women” crap is similarly primarily aimed at a female audience.
A tremendous relief, actually. I still remember that video of him on the Ukrainian talk show, and all those looks of withering scorn the glamorous models were throwing at him for suggesting that their whole country was one big, submissive bordello.
Plus, to be honest, I’d be giggling. Just one more big, balloony Rooshian lie, punctured. Not, of course, because there’s anything inherently funny about being a virgin; I was one for longer than most, with some embarrassment but no shame.
Also, Emma Teitel is a twit who’s written “Oh, PUAs are just harmless lonely boys” shit, so fuck her. She seems to think feminists ought to kill this Menzer beast with kindness.
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/thefutureofeuropes/images/8/8e/Nope.jpg
@Jarnsaxa:
Exactly. I have friends who live with their parents, for a number of reasons, but none of them publish photos of themselves with wads of cash or brag about how “alpha” they are.
@ SFHC
Is that the Gold Coast one?
That’s certainly not as awful as the US company, although it did source dolphins from Tiaji until pressure was brought to bear.
It does do some very good conservation work, and they do now aim to release most animals back into the wild. They keep some animals permanently though. Weirdly the justification given is that female dolphins are at risk of rape in the wild.
In strict utilitarian terms it arguably does more good than harm. I’d still be happier if it moved to a goal of releasing every healthy animal that could survive though. It would probably still be able to function purely as a sanctuary.
Like I mentioned on the zoo thing, it’s a problematic area and I can’t claim that there’s necessarily only one moral position. I’m sure if it was exploitative you’d be the first to do something about that, so I very much trust your judgment on this.