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#gamergate anti-Semitism antifeminism doxing empathy deficit harassment hypocrisy irony alert literal nazis lying liars men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny penises PUA racism rape rape culture red pill return of kings rhymes with roosh

The Daily Mail tracks Roosh V to his mother’s basement, where he lives. No, really.

Roosh Valizadeh, as he would prefer to be seen
Roosh Valizadeh, as he would prefer to be seen

This is just getting surreal.

The Daily Mail — yes, that Daily Mail — has tracked Roosh to his mother’s house in Silver Spring, Maryland, where he is currently living. In the basement.

The location of the pet shop has yet to be determined.

So, yeah. The Daily Mail literally staked out Roosh’s mom’s house, and snapped a few pictures of the man himself answering the door, looking a bit flustered, in a pit-stained t-shirt, after he called cops to the house to discuss the threats he’s been getting from people around the world unamused by his allegedly satirical article advocating the legalization of rape on private property.

Meanwhile, in the House of Commons — yes, that House of Commons, the one in London — Members of Parliament have been mocking the size of Roosh’s … following. As reported on Metro.co.uk,

Labour MP Chi Onwurah went a step further than this, suggesting he was ‘so insecure in his own masculinity’ that he felt the need to ‘augment the size of his… following’ – prompting giggles from around the Commons chamber.

Home Office minister Karen Bradley joined in, adding: ‘I join her in her comments about perhaps the reasons why this individual is doing what he is doing, ensuring he is getting publicity, in a way perhaps he needs for other reasons. I’ll say no more.’

Wink wink, nudge nudge. Say no more!

Oh, and Anonymous — yes, that Anonymous — now says it plans to dox Roosh’s supporters. Highlighting the many ironies here, their announcement of what they call Operation Glasgow Kiss borrowed most of its language from Roosh’s plan, announced several days ago, to dox journalists who’ve written about him in ways he doesn’t like.

Also, Roosh’s mom — no, not really Roosh’s mom — now has a Twitter account.

Have I missed anything? I’m pretty sure I have.

What do I make of all this? I’m frankly torn.

I’m certainly heartened to see so many publicly rebuking Roosh’s truly abhorrent ideas. Even if Roosh’s call to end rape by making it legal were absolute, 100% satire, he’s written literally hundreds of other things just as bad, if not worse, a point I made in my International Business Times piece yesterday. (For many more examples, take a stroll through my posts on him in the We Hunted the Mammoth archives, or read through the posts I highlighted here.)

It is also a little hard for me to feel much sympathy for Roosh on the doxxing question, given that he and his followers are simply having done to them what he has already done — or tried to do — to those he considers his enemies, including, well, me.

Does anyone remember the time he launched a campaign to “destroy” (his word) the life and reputation of a female journalist by falsely accusing her of (anti-white) racism?

“How far lost is Western society,” Roosh asked on Twitter, “if fat, ugly Indian [name and gendered slur redacted] has a platform to denounce a productive, intelligent white man?”

In a followup post, he explained that

Unless she’s applying for a position at Jezebel, no respectable company will touch a toxic individual who has been linked to racism.  …

It’s a slow-burn attack that will effectively punish these writers and scare their co-workers , whose income is low enough that they need to depend on corporate employment indefinitely … It won’t work on the big liberal writers like Jessica Valenti or Naomi Wolf, since any attention they get just helps them sell more books, but it does work on the young girl out of college trying to win feminist brownie points by denouncing a man for being “creepy” based on a bad joke.

And then he compared it with something he seems to have a certain amount of experience with:

Having your name destroyed on Google is the internet version of getting raped.

That’s right. He was comparing the smear campaign he was launching to rape — in what he saw as a good way.

I discuss some of Roosh’s other harassment campaigns, (as well as a violent and creepy revenge fantasy he posted on his blog) here and here.

So, yeah, Roosh isn’t having anything done to him that he and his followers haven’t done to others, with the exception of having actual MPs make unflattering insinuations about his penis in the House of Commons. Then again, if some MP were to call the target of one of his harassment campaigns a “fat ugly” c-word, I’m sure he’d be cackling with glee.

But at the same time, the public shaming of Roosh makes me deeply uneasy.

The Daily Mail literally staked out his mom’s house in order to get photos of him answering the door. He’s been doxxed; no doubt some of his followers will be as well. And I also have little doubt that Roosh is indeed getting the threats he says he’s getting. The answer to Roosh’s internet bullying isn’t to bully him back.

While some of the ironies of the current situation are admittedly a bit delicious — the man who preens on Instagram holding wads of cash turns out to be literally living in his mom’s basement — let’s not lose sight of the real issues here. There’s nothing inherently shameful about living in mom’s basement, or having a small … following. Indeed, jokes about Roosh’s penis rather trivialize the issues at stake here.

We should be exposing Roosh’s noxious ideas and behavior, not his mom’s address.

The real issues here are, I think, fourfold:

Roosh is teaching an abhorrent, woman-hating philosophy that encourages men to bulldoze past a woman’s no’s in order to, as Roosh puts it, “get their nut.” 

Roosh is preaching bigotry — against women, against people of color, against LGBT folk, even against that familiar scapegoat, the Jews. Already a conduit for many of the noxious ideas of the “alt right,” Roosh seems well on his way to becoming a literal Nazi.

Roosh is a bully, using his followers as his own personal army in an attempt to “destroy” individuals he doesn’t like, most of them women. He was a supporter and enabler of the roving internet harassment squad known as GamerGate

Roosh’s own writings strongly suggest that he may be a serial rapist. 

It’s that last one that troubles me the most, as it probably does most of you. If it’s true, I hope that the police return to his door, not because of threats he’s been getting online, but to arrest him. Will the current media firestorm over Roosh encourage women to come forward with specific charges against him? We will see.

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opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
5 years ago

viral-outrage as an entertainment product

In many quarters (such as the Daily Fail) that’s exactly what it will be. I’m hanging onto the hope that overall, it may prove to be something a bit more useful – a fairly widely disseminated public repudiation of PUA crap is a good thing in itself, after all.

As for the doxxing and possible threats, I agree with the reminders that that shit is never OK. They should have just doorstepped him (as a minor public figure of his own making) with no suggestion of his address, especially considering someone else lives there.

At the same time I totally own up to the fact that I am all schadenfreuded out. It ultimately shoots us in the foot for anyone to go in for small-dick jokes, but – ah, if only the joke hadn’t been one that actually reinforces patriarchal bullshit! – I can’t help thinking how good it is that this nasty piece of work is literally being laughed at out loud by women and men in a very public way.

Falconer
Falconer
5 years ago

@Curry:

You know that things are bad for a conservative nut job when the Daily Fail won’t protect them.

Please read the comments policy before posting a comment. Thank you!

Reynard
Reynard
5 years ago

I’m not comfortable with what’s happening to Roosh.

Don’t get me wrong, he’s a slugtrail of snot and all, but I think that if we mock him, it should be for his shitty views and just general awfulness, not unsubstantiated dick jokes and “loser in his mom’s basement” jokes.

I don’t approve of doxxing at all either. He might deserve to be uncomfortable, but I think as a general rule, doxxing is immoral, no matter who it’s directed at.

I can understand why some people would find it cathartic, but I don’t think this is the way to go about it.

Freemage
Freemage
5 years ago

The line here is thin, I think, but it needs to be respected.

Publishing/distributing his address or phone number: out-of-bounds. I’ve come around on this, in no small part because of getting schooled by, I think it was katz, on this very site. Tactics that can lead to violence are never okay, in no small part because saying they are acceptable when the target is reprehensible makes it easier for abusers to say that they are doing it for the same reason. So, nothing that aids/abets harassment or threats is valid in the long run. I’ll go one step further–people actually sending threats should be subjected to the same punishments I want for men who send threatening messages to Anita Sarkeesian.

Likewise, penis jokes feed the very environment we want to see eliminated. I may have had a dark fantasy about pumping lead-filled water into the Michigan governor’s mansion, but in the end, even if one can say he and his staff ‘deserved it’, the end result is even more tainted water in our overall supply. Toxic masculinity is social poison; we need cleanup to be unimpeded by digs of this nature.

However, the fact that he lives in his mother’s house (basement or otherwise)? As long as it can be presented without the identifying location info… yeah, that’s valid. My admittedly television-derived understanding of the law says that sometimes, evidence cannot be brought into play unless the other side introduces it first, ‘opening the door’ to a further examination of the claims. This seems like a reasonable rule in non-legal settings, as well. In this case, Roosh’s overall lifestyle is very much a part of what he, himself has opened the door to. He wants people to believe that he’s flush with cash, has an army of followers worldwide who support a lavish lifestyle of travel and glamour. By setting up that claim, he invites it being exposed as a lie, and this does that.

Similarly, shaming him online, so long as it follows the rules I mentioned in the first two paragraphs, seems valid as well. He chose this as the arena for his bullshit; he deserves to get refuted here.

bluecat
bluecat
5 years ago

Yes, I agree totally that the doxxing and the threats are never OK, even when they happen to people we can’t stand. Even when they happen to people we think have done the same or worse to others.

And his poor Mum, too. That is really not good.

I agree also with the comments about the penis jokes. I understand the temptation to reach for the nearest cruel mockery, but… nope, I’d like my elected representatives to do better than that.

And (pace our resident size queen troll) the gifts of nature are neither here nor there when it comes to being an awful person or a decent one.

I find myself living in surprising times, when appalling fascists have gone seamlessly from posting memes on social media about how women lie about rape (“I’m not saying always, but like, a lot, almost always.”) to posting memes about protecting “OUR women” from marauding rapists, just so long as those rapists might be refugees and the victims white, or “White and Christian”. (Because, y’know, that makes all the difference. /s)

And now the Daily Mail cares about rapists too. Whoda’ thunk it? I have to remind myself that bad things are bad even when the Mail says they are.

I hope if there are any victims of this awful man’s awful ideology out there (I’d say the odds are good) they gain the courage to come forward.

I wonder if anyone who has been assaulted by his devotees following his “How To…” guides would have a case against him too?

Nequam
Nequam
5 years ago

I feel bad for his mother, and I would not want to see him swatted.

But don’t make me pretend to feel sorry for him at all. He fell ass over teakettle into a pit of suffering he was digging for others.

Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ zoon

Martin Shkreli, that safari dentist…rather than anything productive or the beginning of a dialogue.

People have addressed the Roosh situation very well.

Personally I think it’s a really bad idea, whatever anyone may think, to refer to what’s happening to Roosh in a positive light on this site. It gives ammunition to the “Feminists are just as bad” crowd but more importantly, it leaves David open to lots of shit.

But as to the Shkreli incident, I’m part of the animal rights spectrum that believes direct action can be appropriate. There’s room for persuasion and pressure of of course. Publicising what really goes on at Seaworld has had the effect of fewer people going. That’s really hit profits and may make them change their practice for purely economic reasons (although as whale captivity is their raison d’être we’re essentially asking them to shut up shop, so that’s the aim really)

But that’s pressure through lawful means. Pressure through unlawful means is different, not least because it can amount to being a serious criminal offence.

I’m aware of an organisation that has been accused of unlawful practices. However, if that is the case (which we would deny) then such practices are solely in order to prevent certain activities being possible, it’s not to put pressure on the people carrying out those activities to stop. Perhaps a subtle distinction, but a distinction nonetheless.

The activity carried out against Shkreli did actually have a real effect. Canned hunting has taken a big hit in terms of numbers. If it gets to the stage where it becomes financially unviable then that’s the aim. Now the question is, did people cancel their hunting trips because the publicity and dialogue that followed educated them into realising how wrong they were, or were they just frightened off?

So there’s a dilemma, do we say we shouldn’t sink to the level of people like Roosh, or do we say anything that makes it less likely people will publicly advocate rape is justified?

I don’t think it’s wise to discuss any conclusions on David’s website.

katz
5 years ago

However, the fact that he lives in his mother’s house (basement or otherwise)? As long as it can be presented without the identifying location info… yeah, that’s valid. My admittedly television-derived understanding of the law says that sometimes, evidence cannot be brought into play unless the other side introduces it first, ‘opening the door’ to a further examination of the claims. This seems like a reasonable rule in non-legal settings, as well. In this case, Roosh’s overall lifestyle is very much a part of what he, himself has opened the door to. He wants people to believe that he’s flush with cash, has an army of followers worldwide who support a lavish lifestyle of travel and glamour. By setting up that claim, he invites it being exposed as a lie, and this does that.

I cautiously agree if you can thread the needle of criticizing his lifestyle for not being what he claims while not criticizing his lifestyle for being inherently bad. (If it turned out he was a virgin, for instance, that would be extremely funny, but not because there’s anything inherently mockable about being a virgin.)

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
5 years ago

Doxxing is bad.

I’m pretty sure he’s not going to learn anything from it either, honestly. He’s part of a large crowd that seems to follow the “but it’s okay when WE do it” line of thought.

I do think it’s funny that he lives with his mom, but do we even really know that for certain? I used to live about half an hour away from my parents and occasionally when I visited them I’d stay over for a weekend.

Nothing wrong with living with one’s parents, either, (I’ve done that as well) but it definitely gives the lie to his claims about his lifestyle, which goes to credibility.

Leda Atomica
Leda Atomica
5 years ago

I too am hopeful that everything Doosh has ever written anywhere was just his fevered dream and now he has woken up to the smell of burnt coffee. This sums up my theory of every “big shot” misogynist I’ve had the pleasure to become aware of. Sad people living in their heads, lying on the internet because they are too confused to seek the headwaters of pain.

Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

If it turned out he was a virgin, for instance, that would be extremely funny

It would also be a slight relief because it would mean that he hadn’t actually raped all the women he claimed to.

The real irony would be that MRAs who make such a thing about “false rape allegations” were actually falsely claiming to have raped. More mind boggling from the world of professional misogyny.

Carrie
Carrie
5 years ago

Too much to handle all at once.

Schadenfreude overload, mixed with pity for the fact that such humans as Roosh even exist. I wonder how he’ll be spinning this, and actually, I hope he is too much of a narcissist for self-harm.

katz
5 years ago

It would also be a slight relief because it would mean that he hadn’t actually raped all the women he claimed to.

That too.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
5 years ago

Psst. Shkreli isn’t the dentist who shot Cecil the Lion. Shkreli’s the guy who decided to hike the price of Daraprim from $13.50 to $750. Per tablet. Not per case or per bottle. Per tablet. Thirteen dollars and fifty cents versus seven hundred and fifty dollars.

Daraprim is used in the treatment of malaria, and has been beneficial for HIV-positive patients.

WeirwoodTreeHugger
WeirwoodTreeHugger
5 years ago

On that article from the Canadian journalist; I’m not a big fan of the narrative that manospherians are just lonely, awkward, frustrated etc. I’ve been all those things at various points in my life. Somehow, I’ve managed never to join a hate group. It’s skirting dangerously close to the notion that men won’t hurt us if we’re nice enough to them.

There was a Cracked article the other day that did the same thing. It was about what it’s like to be unpopular and awkward and bitter about it. A lot of it was relatable, then he said that the habit of modern feminists talking about Nice Guys and entitlement online would have turned him full MRA, do good thing tumblr wasn’t a thing when he was a teenager. The fuck? Apparently, misogyny is all the fault of women and girls having the gall to talk to each other about the angry and misogynistic reactions they sometimes get for saying no.

It just makes me so mad. It completely erases women and girls who have trouble fitting in and it puts the burden on us to fix men’s anger and be the emotional caretakers for an entire fucking gender.

Sorry for the offer topic ranting.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

@Alan

Shkreli’s the AIDS-profiteering asshole, not the lion-murdering asshole.

Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ Vicki P & SFHC

The fact I don’t know that the dentist was Walter Palmer proves I can have had nothing to do with what happened.

I did like this Yelp review though

“I took my lion to this dentist. I was horrified by the outcome”

Cheers for the heads up though. The situation regarding essential drugs in the US is one of nearly infinite reasons I’m so grateful for our NHS

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
5 years ago

@ Alan

You’re welcome. I wish I were in a position to be grateful for an NHS.

Friendly Neighborhood Dragon Arthur
Friendly Neighborhood Dragon Arthur
5 years ago

Well, as they always say about those who hunt monsters… And this is coming from someone who pretends to be a dragon online.

Doxxing isn’t okay, and I don’t think it should go that far… But Anonymous is what it is… They’re all over the spectrum of exposing things.

The dick joke just happened… Although I admit that I am quite guilty of dropping “dick deflating” comments all the time.

Living with your parents past 18 isn’t something to necessarily be ashamed of, especially with all the economic turmoil we still have right now.

However, with all these things considered, we must remember who exactly this Roosh and other members of the manosphere are; they’re generally nasty people who degrade both men and women with this idea of what the world should be in their minds. It’s a by-product of the era of New Sincerity where people are unaware of the fact that if it weren’t for things like feminism and equal rights, we wouldn’t have over half of the stuff we have now.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

(Oops, I didn’t even notice the ninja!)

In other news, I’ve only just discovered that the nearby Sea World is completely unrelated to the American SeaWorlds, which explains why ours is awesome, with triple the tank sizes, top-notch breeding and rescue programs and no orcas, and theirs seem to boil down to murdering cetaceans for money. So. I don’t feel guilty about enjoying it anymore.

Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ WWTH

It’s skirting dangerously close to the notion that men won’t hurt us if we’re nice enough to them.

To me, that’s such an obvious belief of the MRA/Incel crowd that it’s not even tacit.

Their hero worship of Elliot Rogers and his ilk, and their constant refrain of “I wouldn’t blame someone if the behaviour of modern women did make him snap and kill lots of women” isn’t a commentary on the men who do this; it’s a direct threat.

MRA output isn’t really directed at men, it’s aimed at women.

Comparing rape victims to paedophiles may have given the MRA readers a chance to share a sneer, but primarily it was intended to abuse and victimise rape victims even further.

The “Don’t be surprised if someone kills uppity women” crap is similarly primarily aimed at a female audience.

Bina
5 years ago

It would also be a slight relief because it would mean that he hadn’t actually raped all the women he claimed to.

A tremendous relief, actually. I still remember that video of him on the Ukrainian talk show, and all those looks of withering scorn the glamorous models were throwing at him for suggesting that their whole country was one big, submissive bordello.

Plus, to be honest, I’d be giggling. Just one more big, balloony Rooshian lie, punctured. Not, of course, because there’s anything inherently funny about being a virgin; I was one for longer than most, with some embarrassment but no shame.

Also, Emma Teitel is a twit who’s written “Oh, PUAs are just harmless lonely boys” shit, so fuck her. She seems to think feminists ought to kill this Menzer beast with kindness.

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/thefutureofeuropes/images/8/8e/Nope.jpg

AsAboveSoBelow
AsAboveSoBelow
5 years ago

@Jarnsaxa:

Nothing wrong with living with one’s parents, either, (I’ve done that as well) but it definitely gives the lie to his claims about his lifestyle, which goes to credibility.

Exactly. I have friends who live with their parents, for a number of reasons, but none of them publish photos of themselves with wads of cash or brag about how “alpha” they are.

Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ SFHC

Is that the Gold Coast one?

That’s certainly not as awful as the US company, although it did source dolphins from Tiaji until pressure was brought to bear.

It does do some very good conservation work, and they do now aim to release most animals back into the wild. They keep some animals permanently though. Weirdly the justification given is that female dolphins are at risk of rape in the wild.

In strict utilitarian terms it arguably does more good than harm. I’d still be happier if it moved to a goal of releasing every healthy animal that could survive though. It would probably still be able to function purely as a sanctuary.

Like I mentioned on the zoo thing, it’s a problematic area and I can’t claim that there’s necessarily only one moral position. I’m sure if it was exploitative you’d be the first to do something about that, so I very much trust your judgment on this.

Tyra Lith
Tyra Lith
5 years ago

I agree with all those who have said that doxxing and threatening people is wrong and that they are worried for Roosh’s mother.

But the ridicule and the exposing of him not actually living the lifestyle he claims to live is really fucking important.
It’s necessary that people who didn’t know that this PUA-crap existed now are informed about the awfulness that is out there.
It’s necessary that not only ordinary people but also the police is aware of the tactics Roosh and his followers use to get away with raping women.
And it’s necessary that Roosh and his followers get to see that the rest of the world is disgusted by them. that there is no silent majority of men who think as they do but are oppressed by evil women into being “manginas”. they need to see that people are laughing at them and that their guru is not what he claims to be.
And it is vital that victims of PUAs see that society as a whole does reject Roosh and his ilk.

Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

In the UK there’s a (admittedly limited) right to privacy.

One of the legal justifications for breaching that though is to correct a false representation or to expose hypocrisy.

I suppose that’s maybe relevant here. Just calling someone out for their home circumstances and providing details generally doesn’t sit well with me. I wouldn’t even think it was justified if all someone had done was exaggerate but not for any sort of gain.

However, Roosh didn’t just lie about his lifestyle, he used it as a justification for his horrible actions and also as a lure to exploit idiots who wished to emulate him.

To me it’s a bit like that woman who said people could live on air and sunlight but then was caught out eating biscuits.

newbie
newbie
5 years ago

Thanks for the info on Emma T., Bina.

And WWTH, I hear you.

That bothered me too, as well as her general musings on misogyny, a term that has been so “overused” that “we no longer know what it means.”

Given her manosphere-sympathetic views, it is perhaps even more remarkable that she condemns Roosh and believes the publicity around him is justified.

MexicanHotChocolate
MexicanHotChocolate
5 years ago

I don’t support doxxing and I society needs strong laws that harshly punish those caught doxxing others, but I can understand the urge to doxx a slime ball like Roosh.

newbie
newbie
5 years ago

This from Roosh’s “Everything You Wanted To Know About The Gloriously Spectacular Moi But Were Afraid To Ask:”

I was given a gift to be interesting and sensational. I can wrap subtle truths in packaging that gets massive attention. I don’t do it on purpose—it just comes out naturally in my personality and writing. It’s not something I can just turn off.

Yep.

I’m filing it under “I Can’t Even.”

Ashara Payne
Ashara Payne
5 years ago

I don’t know where the Daily Mail got their info from, but there is a video on his ‘about me’ page of his website, filmed by his sister, where he shows off his worn-out bedding (seriously, this guy either buys cheap sheets or knows nothing about how they wear- I suspect he tore the hole out himself).
He explains that he ‘chooses’ to live in the basement rather than the ‘master bedroom’ because of the view.
Do adults who own their own houses spend much time in their bedrooms in the daytime?

No shame at all in not owning a property and living with your parents at any age and for whatever reason. I know people in my family who do it (my 27-year-old son for one). But he does like to flash his cash as though he has money to burn. That’s why it’s ok to mock it. Most people spend most of their money on property. My brother-in-law chose to spend his traveling the world instead. That’s ok too, but he doesn’t try to deceive people to make money.

I find it hard to understand why he and his ilk get so angry about being rejected by women (he claims he was incredibly shy and socially awkward and rejected in his youth, and spent years learning how to overcome this). Is it the rejection that makes them misogynistic and the ‘pump-and-dump’ approach is revenge?

So many men who were socially awkward teens end up happily married by their twenties/thirties/forties without going down that road, I wonder what makes these dooshes turn it all around and blame women? Maybe it’s the manosphere itself. If so, it’s like a cancer.

It’s also this obsession with ‘thin, beautiful, young women’ that dooms them to failure IMHO. I’d love to have a Chris Evans/Hemsworth/Pratt lookalike hubby but I’ve always known I’d never get one and got over it by the age of 18. You learn that looks aren’t that important in the overall scheme of things. They never do, it’s like they think they’re entitled to one and women/feminism are to blame for their not getting one.

Maybe they really do long for days of yore when women didn’t have sex until marriage, and are punishing women for being more relaxed about sex because they choose not to have sex *with them*.

Kirbywarp
Kirbywarp
5 years ago

Ugh.

Roosh should be facing social condemnation for advocating rape, not as a sideshow for the media to hunt down. You don’t need to stake out his house to spread his name and criticize his ideas.

Learning that he lives in his mother’s basement is like seeing evidence obtained from an illegal search; interesting and condemning given his ideology (and only in the context of his ideology), but obtained under immoral means.

Except this puts Roosh’s life in danger. Nobody can deny that there have to be people out there who think harassing, abusing, or even murdering a big sleazeball would be worth the effort.

I just can’t support any of that, and frankly it horrifies me despite all I know about Roosh as a person.

Penis jokes made by some politicians don’t phase me as much, and I do love that the public seems to agree that Roosh’s ideology is monsterous and he’s awful for promoting, but goddamn. Can’t we just not sink down to the level of a blood-thirsty mob that thinks this shit is ok because the target is actually awful?

Freemage
Freemage
5 years ago

MexicanHotChocolate:

Oh, sure, the urge to step over the line in retaliation for some genuinely heinous offense is such a human one that we encode it into laws as a defense or mitigating circumstance (depending on the details). It isn’t right, even when it’s understandable.

Sheila Crosby
5 years ago

Just a thought: as many people have said, there’s no shame in living with your parents; it’s the hypocrisy of pretending to be rich while doing that. He’s also writing constantly about women being only good for one thing, while a woman is providing a roof over his head.

Assuming the Daily Fail are telling the truth for once.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

@the Emma Teitel article

The apologia and implicit victim blaming were bad enough, but this was the part where I had to stop and shake my head:

Misogyny, the hatred of women, is a word that gets thrown around a lot these days. It’s used with a sometimes alarming lack of selectivity to describe a gamut of chauvinist-piggishness: from the music videos of Robin Thicke to groping on Mad Men, to men sitting wide-legged on the subway.

Yes, her examples of “Political correctness run amok!!!” are… Date rape, sexual harassment and flashing. Wut. Wow.

Given her manosphere-sympathetic views, it is perhaps even more remarkable that she condemns Roosh and believes the publicity around him is justified.

Call me cynical, but frankly, I think she’s just doing the same No True Scotsman othering as Elam.

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
5 years ago

@ Carrie

Alleged human beings.

Mike
Mike
5 years ago

People keep bringing up the thing about him being found at his mom’s house. But everyone that’s familiar with Roosh knows he’s spent most of the last decade living in Europe and South America. He goes back to DC occasionally to visit his people. Everyone makes it sound like he’s never moved out of home. From his blog comments it sounds like he came back to DC from Poland a few weeks ago. So maybe he’s just staying with relatives until he heads abroad again. Not sure why so much is being made of this.

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
5 years ago

Maybe they really do long for days of yore when women didn’t have sex until marriage, and are punishing women for being more relaxed about sex because they choose not to have sex *with them*.

Never was such a time. Shakespeare is among the many, many people of the past who got married when he got his wife pregnant, remember.

dlouwe
dlouwe
5 years ago

Yes, her examples of “Political correctness run amok!!!” are… Date rape, sexual harassment and flashing

To be fair, I think she is talking about manspreading, not flashing. But that doesn’t make the statement any less asinine.

History Nerd
History Nerd
5 years ago

It’s worth noting that, apart from the other arguments (it’s illegal, it makes feminists look bad, and it’s morally wrong even if it doesn’t make feminists look bad), violence has unintended effects and people often get hurt who aren’t responsible for anything the targets are doing.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Manspreading is one of those things that anti-feminists hold up as an example of “political correctness run amok” and “hysterical, shrieking feminazis.” But really, anti-feminists are way more upset and emotional about it when we are. It’s pretty much

Feminist 1: “Hey, have you ever noticed that men use up more than their fair share of space on public transit when they’re sitting near women?”

Feminist 2: “Yes! Isn’t that annoying? Especially when it’s a thinly veiled excuse to grope you!”

Anti-feminists: “First world problems! Feminists are crazy!” Spends months and months obsessing over and ranting about how much feminists talk about manspreading even though it’s just something we occasionally kvetch about.

It’s in the same category as elevatorgate and shirtgate. Feminists say “hey guys, maybe cut that out?” and anti-feminists throw months, even years long tantrums. Then completely unironically call us crazy and irrational and oversensitive because we asked them to try and be a little less self involved and a little more considerate.

Ashara Payne
Ashara Payne
5 years ago

When I said ‘days of yore’, I wasn’t really referring to the whole of history. I was thinking more along the lines of Queen Victoria up to the 1960s. Victoria famously was disgusted with the licentious behaviour of her uncles, I think. There were men with venereal diseases at the time who believed that having sex with a virgin would cure them. She was instrumental in raising the age of consent to sixteen. OK, maybe society went too far, and the backlash has been extreme, but that’s thanks to the contraceptive and morning after pills. Thank-you science.

I was born in the 1960s, and had many friends at school who were adopted. To be an unwed mother was shameful and they were forced to give up their babies. There were no children of single parents in my peer group. Of course it hasn’t always been that way, but it was the way of my parents and grandparents. Those attitudes take a few generations to disappear.

Tovius
Tovius
5 years ago

I would love to think that his books were all made up, but that just seems too good to be true. He is confirmed to have been in Ukraine at the very least. (Didn’t he used to live there?)

abars01
abars01
5 years ago

You know, I think it says something, really, about our complete and total inability to refrain from feeding trolls, when all some obscure, washed-up loser who literally lives in his mom’s basement has to do to create an international media circus is write a few clickbait blog posts and then announce he’s gonna get together with a few of his buddies to gloat about them. All this guy wanted, right from the start, was his 15 minutes of fame, and lo and behold, he duly received it.

ramen
ramen
5 years ago

Mocking Roosh’s dick is exactly like mocking Chris Christie’s weight. I mean! His opinions and policies are shit, and he yells in people’s faces when they confront him in person, and you’re gonna criticize his figure? Unserious, unhelpful, and distracting.

(Sorry, that analogy is for United Statesians.)

Talking of which—oh christ, Roosh lives right on the other side of DC from me! I just realized that I’ve been picturing him in a galaxy far far away, all this time.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Incoming rant warning

Here’s the Cracked piece I was talking about if anyone is interested
http://www.cracked.com/blog/7-ways-you-can-accidentally-become-social-outcast/

The offending paragraph

Confession: If I were 17 again and my first exposure to feminism was a bunch of conventionally attractive girls on Tumblr snarking about how I was a monster because I felt “entitled” to female attention, I would have redpilled so hard it’d have crashed the Matrix. I’d have GamerGate tattoos on my face. Their talk of me being part of the power structure or “rape culture” would have seemed like one more cruel device in their torture kit. At the time, I’d have killed to have spent one hour getting the attention they got.

At the time.

Sure, he clearly recognizes that it would have been wrong and bad if he had become an MRA.

But there is just so much fail in this paragraph anyway.

It assumes that only conventionally attractive women receive unwanted sexual attention or get misogynistic reactions when we say no.

It assumes that when we talk about male entitlement, we’re talking about men we don’t like asking us out and making fun of them for being losers when really we’re talking about men who fake being a friend to get in our pants or rage about what bitches and cunts women are for not liking them. We’re talking about being viewed as a reward for chivalrous behavior, not humans with our own priorities and desires.

It assumes that “snark” means we’re just mocking men for being unfuckable to us. It completely fails to acknowledge that sometimes humor and mockery are a defense mechanism that makes some genuinely hurtful and threatening aspects of womanhood just a bit more dealable.

Plus the whole piece frames being an outcast as not being able to get girls (but only ones of course) and having to see other guys who are huge assholes get girls instead. Not only does it play into the whole narrative that women like assholes, therefore we are bitches who deserve to be mistreated by men, it completely disregards the fact that it isn’t only straight boys who experience being an outcasts as youths.

But of course, female misfits and queer misfits are completely invisible in popular culture. They might get to be the sidekicks to the more conventionally attractive non-misfit characters or misfit characters who are cishet guys, but they’re pretty much never the main focus of the stories and when they are it’s only if it’s a Pygmalion kind of story. Nerdy or socially awkward girls can’t be okay the way they are and still score with a hot dude. They have to get a makeover and be revealed as conventionally beautiful under the glasses and frumpy clothes.

The most famous example is She’s All That. There’s also House Bunny, which has nerdy girl protagonists but their stories are subplots compared to the star, Anna Farris as a playboy bunny who got demoted and kicked out of the mansion. Also, one of the nerdy girls is Emma Stone (very conventionally beautiful).

Then there’s My So Called Life. Mostly a fantastic show, but it takes them awhile to give Ricky his own storyline. His story is hinted at in the third episode “Guns and Gossip.” But him being bullied at school for being gay is paralleled with people thinking Angela slept with Jordan. I suppose it was quite progressive at the time for a three dimensional gay character to exist on network TV at all, but still, his main function in the series was to be the support system for the white cishet Angela and Rayanne. They were getting better towards the end of the series and I like to think if it had lasted longer than a season, they would have made him as important a character as Angela and Rayanne. Still, as much as it hurts to criticize one of my favorite shows, I feel as though I must!

Anyway, I’m getting way too teal dear now. So I’ll stop. I just was upset by this because usually the men who write for Cracked are quite pro-feminist, but even our male allies just so often refuse to really get it and it’s frustrating.

mrex
mrex
5 years ago

@Alan

” Comparing rape victims to paedophiles may have given the MRA readers a chance to share a sneer, but primarily it was intended to abuse and victimise rape victims even further.”

No, that was more to point out the hypocritical ablism that pops up surrounding sexual compulsions. You know that whole “SJWs don’t really believe anything they say” thing? MRAS enjoy poking holes. Unfortunately, this is a hole that feminists don’t seem ready to fill.

Glad I’m not a pedophile, but I don’t mind being compared to them as sufferers of a mental illness. Why should sexual assault victims like me care about being compared to non-offenders? Actually, since I believe treatment (and sympathy) towards non-offending pedophiles will prevent abuse, compare away.

I do mind being compared to rapists.

mrex
mrex
5 years ago

I don’t wish doxxing on anyone, but count me among the people that are glad that Roosh’s *lifestyle* (not personal information) was exposed. He uses his financial “success” to justify his teachings. This sounds like one more nail in the coffin exposing him as a fraud.

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
5 years ago

You know, I think it says something, really, about our complete and total inability to refrain from feeding trolls,

I’ve never seen a situation where “don’t feed the trolls” actually works. Like people who are bullied being told “Ignore them and they’ll go away” or “stand up to them and they’ll stop,” it seems to me to be a way to blame the victim for the aggressor’s conduct, and both seem to embolden the aggressor.

I’m positive that wasn’t your intent here, mind you. I just think “don’t feed the trolls” and “ignore them and they’ll go away” are myths.

History Nerd
History Nerd
5 years ago

@weirwoodtreehugger I’ve found the people who like to complain about “Tumblr feminists” all the time are the ones who are thin skinned and irrational.