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#gamergate doxing swatting terrorism

Congresswoman Leading the Fight Against Swatting is, You Guessed It, Swatted

Rep. Katherine Clark
Rep. Katherine Clark

From the Boston Globe:

US Representative Katherine Clark and her husband were watching “Veep” Sunday night, when police lights engulfed her Melrose [Massachusetts] home.

Clark went outside, assuming something was wrong with one of her neighbors. But she said she was alarmed and frightened to see cruisers blocking both ends of her street and “multiple officers, some with long guns, on my front lawn.”

An officer told her they had received a report of an active shooter at her house, where her 13- and 16-year-old boys had just gone to bed.

But of course.

As the Globe notes, Clark is the sponsor of a bill that would make swatting a federal crime. Swatting, of course, is the practice of maliciously making false reports in order to send swarms of police and/or SWAT teams to the home of your target.

It’s not a hypothetical worry: several Gamergate critics have been swatted. And it goes without saying that it’s pretty dangerous to send a small army of heavily armed cops to a home where they think an active shooter is barricaded.

If Clark’s swatters intended to intimidate her, they seem to have failed. The Globe again:

Clark acknowledged that the experience Sunday night was deeply disconcerting.

But asked if she would be less vocal about the issue now, she laughed and said no.

“If that was the intent of calling in this event,” Clark said, “I think they have underestimated my commitment to making sure that we do stop this practice.”

Clark said she had been very sympathetic to people have been the victims of swatting before Sunday night but now fully understands what it’s like.

“It will,” she said, “really cause me to double down.”

Targeting a politician with what is essentially terrorism? Doesn’t seem like a particularly smart choice on the part of whoever was behind this.

H/T — r/GamerGhazi

 

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David
David
5 years ago

Gamergate immediately speculated that she had probably just done it to herself.

Kat
Kat
5 years ago

Bad news for the Gamergaters!

Katherine Clark: Is she . . . Katie?

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

“Let’s show her by doing the exact thing to her she’s campaigning against! That’ll shut her up!”

comment image

(OT: I have discovered that I can do this laugh. I promise to use my shojo-antagonist powers for good.)

DreadFluffyRises
DreadFluffyRises
5 years ago

Targeting a politician with what is essentially terrorism? Doesn’t seem like a particularly smart choice on the part of whoever was behind this.

You’re assuming they make particularly smart choices any other time?

Kirbywarp
Kirbywarp
5 years ago

If there’s anybody who has the implicit protection against mistreatment by the police, and who has the power to respond to a SWAT, it’s a politician.

Thank goodness these folks don’t think; they just gave Rep. Clark more ammunition for her cause.

Freemage
Freemage
5 years ago

David: I was literally coming to the comments to ask how long before they started calling “False Flag”.

Cyberwulf
Cyberwulf
5 years ago

Gamergaters are either the stupidest people in the world (e.g. swatting a politician who wants to make swatting a crime, then crying that she did it to herself/is making it up for attention), or they’re brilliant tacticians (e.g. purposefully swatting a politician who wants to make swatting a crime so they can claim she did it to herself/is making it up for attention). Either way, they’re worthless individuals who should be put to work shovelling coal and scrubbing toilets to keep them out of trouble.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

They’re so used to targeting marginalized people who have little to no power to make law enforcement take their threats seriously. They’ve definitely gone too far. Hopefully they’ll be an arrest and a long sentence this time.

Any lawyers or other people knowledgeable in these matters know whether or not this type of crime carries heavier penalties if the victim is a federal government official?

Terrabeau
Terrabeau
5 years ago

I’m curious as to how effective her legislation will be in practice in getting dangerous assholes prosecuted, but good on Mrs. Clark for her steadfastness.

Bina
5 years ago

Clark went outside, assuming something was wrong with one of her neighbors. But she said she was alarmed and frightened to see cruisers blocking both ends of her street and “multiple officers, some with long guns, on my front lawn.”

An officer told her they had received a report of an active shooter at her house, where her 13- and 16-year-old boys had just gone to bed.

Aaaaand way to prove her right, fellas!

Please, enjoy your surprise visit from the Internet cops.

Ellesar
Ellesar
5 years ago

That anyone would seriously think that Clark would do this to herself to make a point has not read the facts. She has children, she would not have put them through that just to make a point ffs. Also, she laughed when asked if it would deter her. NOT the reaction of someone who did it themselves, who would have gone on about how traumatising it was and how scared everyone was.

No, this is a robust and determined woman who has been able to see the victim’s POV so can empathise more now. But is clearly not planning to milk the experience.

I would have thought the police can determine pretty quickly where the call came from, and it will be made obvious she did not do it.

loquora
loquora
5 years ago

I’m glad things turned out okay, swattings are scary stuff. And I’m sort of glad to know these twice baked turds still haven’t figured out the Streisand Effect.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ ellesar

I would have thought the police can determine pretty quickly where the call came from

It may be that if they “want to make a Federal case about it” (in the literal, not rhetorical sense) the authorities can use a National Security Letter to find out who made the call, bypassing the need for warrants and the like; so this could be resolved quite quickly.

littleknown
littleknown
5 years ago

@Ellesar: The police have to respond to every call, including ones from internet-based phones that are untraceable, so *in theory*, assuming the call had such an origin, she could have done this to herself.

(An utterly ridiculous theory that rests on the idea that she would have no compunction putting her kids’ lives at risk over such a completely uncontroversial piece of legislation.)

NickNameNick
NickNameNick
5 years ago

This is like how all those “critics” of Anita Sarkeesian tried to make it out that her Kickstarter was some big scam that she somehow (’cause reasons!) manipulated people into funding, as if their hyperbolically childish reactions to her videos and general shitty behavior didn’t work as evidence as to why people would contribute to such a thing. As if people are incapable of voluntarily giving their money to a project or something equally asinine…

Yeah, the best way to disprove one’s negative image is to continually do things that contribute to that negative image – but then blame it on someone else, usually by saying they “brought it on themselves.”

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

loquora | February 1, 2016 at 6:34 pm
I’m glad things turned out okay, swattings are scary stuff. And I’m sort of glad to know these twice baked turds still haven’t figured out the Streisand Effect.

There was a video that got recommended to me on YouTube (for some reason, YT seems to think I want to see “both sides of the story” regardless of who I preemptively block when I watch a video about Anita or Zoe) where this guy (Who I’m assuming is a big deal, considering I’ve seen his face many times before) was just insisting that Zoe Quinn is NOT a big deal, and that was just the title of the video.

Apparently, he was up in arms about Zoe getting a movie, and he was insisting that she’s “not that big of a deal” and doesn’t “deserve” a movie.

I assume the irony was lost on him.

(Also, I’m stealing ‘twice baked turds’, that’s a good one.)

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ Paradoxy

Also, I’m stealing ‘twice baked turds’, that’s a good one.)

I don’t care how good the bands are, I am definitely not coming to your bake sale.

Ian whitehead
Ian whitehead
5 years ago

Australian media (ABC, nationally funded broadcaster, I guess a bit like American PBS) picked up the Roosh story – the title is priceless, hope it makes anyone even remotely for PUA stuff to think again.

“http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-02/petition-to-stop-return-of-kings-meetings/7132062”

NickNameNick
NickNameNick
5 years ago

@P.I.

There was a video that got recommended to me on YouTube (for some reason, YT seems to think I want to see “both sides of the story” regardless of who I preemptively block when I watch a video about Anita or Zoe) where this guy (Who I’m assuming is a big deal, considering I’ve seen his face many times before) was just insisting that Zoe Quinn is NOT a big deal, and that was just the title of the video.

God, that annoys the shit out of me too…

Just because I like Jim Sterling, Super Bunnyhop, and Errand Signal doesn’t mean I want to see anything from Mr. Rapzion or fucking TechReviewUSA.

Seriously, false equivalency is the worst goddamn thing to happen in modern discourse. It’s like you can’t talk about an issue without someone coming along and acting like “the other side” of the issue is obligated to be validated by their opponents. It’s why, when ethnic minorities or women deal with experiences specific to their race or gender, you will always have white guys who come along and whine about how they have it “just as bad” – throwing a massive hissy-fit when their oh-so-precious feelings get hurt, after having said some racist or sexist shit and called out for it.

loquora
loquora
5 years ago

@Paradoxical

I can feel the jealousy from here.

@Alan

But what if the proceeds go toward much needed scented candles and hair dye? We can’t misander without basic supplies!

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

NickNameNick | February 1, 2016 at 7:17 pm
God, that annoys the shit out of me too…

Just because I like Jim Sterling, Super Bunnyhop, and Errand Signal doesn’t mean I want to see anything from Mr. Rapzion or fucking TechReviewUSA.

Exactly. Sometimes, I just don’t want to see that bullshit recommended to me. I just want to get some people’s opinion on it, or just be informed about what’s going on.

And no, lurkers, that doesn’t mean I’m in an “echo chamber”. I’m well aware of what your side thinks about the topics, considering you never shut the fuck up about them.

Seriously, false equivalency is the worst goddamn thing to happen in modern discourse. It’s like you can’t talk about an issue without someone coming along and acting like “the other side” of the issue is obligated to be validated by their opponents. It’s why, when ethnic minorities or women deal with experiences specific to their race or gender, you will always have white guys who come along and whine about how they have it “just as bad” – throwing a massive hissy-fit when their oh-so-precious feelings get hurt, after having said some racist or sexist shit and called out for it.

It also sucks because then you have cishet white dudes marching in on a conversation and expecting everyone to “debate” them at the drop of a fucking trilby because Person A said something they didn’t like or agree with, and now they have to provide sources and shit to prove it, but of course you can’t source that site because it’s too “biased” or it’s part of the conspiracy, and you can’t source anecdotal evidence even if it’s about things that happen frequently to large groups of people, and you can’t do this, and you can’t do that, ect. And you can’t get “emotional” even if it’s something that personally affects your day-to-day life, you can’t get angry with them because they’re “just asking”, and of course, you have to deal with that bullshit of “I don’t see it, so it’s not happening!”

There’s no fucking winning because they’ve got the goal posts tied to an RC car, and they fucking know it.

And even if you choose not to participate, they’ll screech about “winning” because you refuse to deal with them, and thus, everything they said is “right” and you “can’t prove” any “claims” you supposedly made.

I literally had a guy come at me on twitter a while ago and say I have to provide sources for saying that MRAs encourage men to hate women “without bigotry, hate, or anger” because he’s never been encouraged to hate or harass women by MRAs, so I was obviously making it up.

I asked myself what the fuck that even means, but I figured that it’s pretty much it’s bullshit-ese for “You can’t source anything I don’t personally like from places I don’t personally like”.

And, naturally, when I did provide sources for AVfM asking for a bounty on a woman’s information (the one who got Sage Gerard busted for breaking into the women’s restroom at his college) as an example of MRAs encouraging men to harass women, he called it “public research” and said that was fine, so I went “yeah, we’re fucking done, you’re not asking me this shit in good faith you disingenuous shitlord”.

Honestly, I’m just tired of having my safety and personal identity being considered “debatable” by these fuckers. My life is not your conversation piece, douchebros.

loquora | February 1, 2016 at 7:24 pm
@Alan

But what if the proceeds go toward much needed scented candles and hair dye? We can’t misander without basic supplies!

And we were going to misander by charging men a buck and a quarter for their cupcakes while we only charge women a dollar too! To make up for the wage gap!

And we were going to serve pro-lifers cups of batter and convince them they’re cupcakes!

Eibhear
Eibhear
5 years ago

Long-time lurker here again. I truly amn’t being disingenuous, but what you the feck does , “double down”, mean?

Bina
5 years ago

Eibhear: “Double down” means to go at something you were already going at, with double determination. Basically, she’s saying that not only have they not scared her off, they’ve just made her all the more determined to get this law passed.

Jamesworkshop
Jamesworkshop
5 years ago

From my understanding the USA has about 400 swatting incidences a year, catching people doing it is pretty uncommon. However it’s a high profile target much like the doxxing of Judge Katherine Forrest, so who knows.

SpleenyBadger
SpleenyBadger
5 years ago

I’m currently reading with fascination and horror Rise of the Warrior Cop by Radley Balko, and it utterly baffles me how anyone could call in a SWAT strike on someone just to make a point. Innocent people get killed in those… and even if you don’t think she’s innocent (because eeeevil feminazeeee…) there are her kids to consider. Jesus. These people have not a single shred of humanity.

katz
5 years ago

Eibhear: Hey! Have you checked out our complimentary welcome package?

Dreadnought
Dreadnought
5 years ago

@Paradoxical

Could you record your laugh and upload it? I want to turn it into a ring tone.

Please, pretty pretty please!

Bina
5 years ago

I’m currently reading with fascination and horror Rise of the Warrior Cop by Radley Balko, and it utterly baffles me how anyone could call in a SWAT strike on someone just to make a point. Innocent people get killed in those… and even if you don’t think she’s innocent (because eeeevil feminazeeee…) there are her kids to consider. Jesus. These people have not a single shred of humanity.

Also noteworthy: The irony of these people calling us Nazis, even as they’re phoning in a fake terror threat at our home address, to some actual stormtrooper types.

But of course, their irony detectors went bust a long time ago, so.

Tessa
Tessa
5 years ago

Jamesworkshop

From my understanding the USA has about 400 swatting incidences a year, catching people doing it is pretty uncommon. However it’s a high profile target much like the doxxing of Judge Katherine Forrest, so who knows.

I’d like to hope that if it became a federal crime whatever agency gets control over it would have more power to catch people because it wouldn’t have the issue of local jurisdictions not talking. But I really don’t have enough information.

Jamesworkshop
Jamesworkshop
5 years ago

Tessa

I’d like to hope that if it became a federal crime whatever agency gets control over it would have more power to catch people because it wouldn’t have the issue of local jurisdictions not talking. But I really don’t have enough information.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/02/anti-swatting-us-congresswoman-targeted-in-swatting-attack/

At the moment, it seems only the Melrose police are involved, but it’s super early days.

Falconer
Falconer
5 years ago

Can I join in the laughage?

https://youtu.be/KY0uFVdOiyI

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Dreadnought | February 1, 2016 at 8:44 pm
@Paradoxical

Could you record your laugh and upload it? I want to turn it into a ring tone.

Please, pretty pretty please!

Here you go. It’s a bit raw and quiet, but I think it’s okay. Use it for good.

Three Snakes
5 years ago

I’m currently reading with fascination and horror Rise of the Warrior Cop by Radley Balko, and it utterly baffles me how anyone could call in a SWAT strike on someone just to make a point. Innocent people get killed in those… and even if you don’t think she’s innocent (because eeeevil feminazeeee…) there are her kids to consider. Jesus. These people have not a single shred of humanity.

Don’t you get it? Humanity, self-reflection, and empathy are evil, decadent cultural Marxist values no REAL MAN would want to have. Of course, men who do have such values are feminized eunuchs brainwashed into being part of feminist borg.
/sarcasm

I almost vomited typing this shit.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

@Three Snakes: And who cares about her two sons unless they can be used as a blugeon against feminists anyways?!

(I find myself sharing your revulsion.)

Falconer
Falconer
5 years ago
Azne
Azne
5 years ago

I really hope the assholes responsible for swatting the congresswoman get caught and made examples of. And that swatting does end up a federal crime.

Also @PI that laugh is the best!

Dreadnought
Dreadnought
5 years ago

That’s so awesome!

I shall smite all evil and bring peace to this cold uncaring world with the power of laughter.

Thanks Paradoxical, you’re the best.

sevenofmine
sevenofmine
5 years ago

for some reason, YT seems to think I want to see “both sides of the story” regardless of who I preemptively block when I watch a video about Anita or Zoe

Zoe Quinn spoke about this recently on Twitter in a way that I hadn’t previously considered i.e. these algorithms actually facilitate harassment of her. If you search Zoe Quinn on anything, you’re going to get far more hits from people spreading lies than you will from Zoe Quinn herself. If you watch a Zoe Quinn video on Youtube, you’re going to have a sidebar FULL of “Zoe Quinn is a slutty slut who sluts for good reviews of her totally not a real game”. I’m sure the same is true of other prominent GG targets.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Dreadnought | February 1, 2016 at 10:12 pm
That’s so awesome!

I shall smite all evil and bring peace to this cold uncaring world with the power of laughter.

Thanks Paradoxical, you’re the best.

You’re very welcome. I’m glad you like it.

sevenofmine | February 1, 2016 at 10:35 pm

for some reason, YT seems to think I want to see “both sides of the story” regardless of who I preemptively block when I watch a video about Anita or Zoe

Zoe Quinn spoke about this recently on Twitter in a way that I hadn’t previously considered i.e. these algorithms actually facilitate harassment of her. If you search Zoe Quinn on anything, you’re going to get far more hits from people spreading lies than you will from Zoe Quinn herself. If you watch a Zoe Quinn video on Youtube, you’re going to have a sidebar FULL of “Zoe Quinn is a slutty slut who sluts for good reviews of her totally not a real game”. I’m sure the same is true of other prominent GG targets.

They really do. Since she and Anita and Brinna Wu have garnered so much hate from these groups, and they’re so obsessive about them and what they do and make all these videos saying what “awful people” they are for whatever reason, it’s going to come up, and I imagine it’s because of the tags and the titles and descriptions.

And I think that people tag their hate videos with the people they’re harassing for that reason, because they KNOW it’ll come up when people look for videos about them on YouTube, and that way they can shove their views on people who aren’t aware of the situation before Zoe, Anita, Brianna, or any other GG targets can defend themselves. They’re literally trying to drown out any other voices with just sheer volume of videos.

The shitty thing is as well, I’ve blocked people like Repzillion and Thunderf00t so I don’t have to see their videos, but YouTube is still recommending their videos to me, even when I just watched the latest Tropes vs. Women in Games just to see what it was about, YouTube thought it was pertinent to reccomend Thunderf00t’s “rebuttal” to it.

Like, no, YouTube, I don’t want to watch that hate filled bullshit.

Tumblr is guilty of the same thing with a lot of Social Justice bloggers. They’ll blog about things like antisemitism and tumblr will reccomend literal neo-nazis to follow because they hit the same key words or use the same tags or something.

Their algorithms are fucked up, and of course, they’d rather not do anything to change them than protect their users. Because that requires them to care about their users.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

Apologies for derailing if we’ve moved beyond Dawkins, but I’m just reading “Fountains of Paradise” (again) and this passage has just cropped up.

His assets were an impressive appearance, a mellifluous voice, and an unshakeable belief in his ability to deliver judgements on any scientific subject. In his own field, indeed, he was quite good.

Unfortunately, Bickerstaff did not know his limitations.

Though he had a devoted coterie of fans who subscribed to his information service – in an earlier age, he would have been called a pop-scientist – he had an even larger circle of critics.

The kinder ones considered that he had been educated beyond his intelligence. The others labelled him a self employed idiot.

ultimateprotagonistnerd
ultimateprotagonistnerd
5 years ago

Zoe Quinn spoke about this recently on Twitter in a way that I hadn’t previously considered i.e. these algorithms actually facilitate harassment of her. If you search Zoe Quinn on anything, you’re going to get far more hits from people spreading lies than you will from Zoe Quinn herself. If you watch a Zoe Quinn video on Youtube, you’re going to have a sidebar FULL of “Zoe Quinn is a slutty slut who sluts for good reviews of her totally not a real game”. I’m sure the same is true of other prominent GG targets.

This reminds me of a day or so ago when I was looking for the full context to the Anita Sarkeesian “Everything is sexist” comments where she was describing herself first becoming a feminist as being annoying, and all I got was the clip with no context or rants about the clip without context.

EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

Oh god, Youtube recommendations are the worst thing. I know Google aren’t stupid, so that leaves either malice or uncaring as the reasons for leaving such a ridiculous algorithm in place.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

I’ve just noticed that Facebook is recommending a page to me called “Serious crimes by women that get no mainstream media attention”

I’m hoping it’s because they’re bank robbers who want a getaway driver (if they’re that good at keeping under the radar we could be quids in!)

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
5 years ago

@Paradoxical Intention:

I shall never read a post of yours the same way again. I am uncertain how to react to this fact.

katz
5 years ago

I’ve just noticed that Facebook is recommending a page to me called “Serious crimes by women that get no mainstream media attention”

Those women who get no mainstream media attention, always committing serious crimes.

History Nerd
History Nerd
5 years ago

@Alan You mean like how the mainstream media paid almost no attention to the Jodi Arias case?

JoeB
JoeB
5 years ago

OT:

It’s already heavily populated by trolls and people making fun but the #MicrosoftRubioFraud Twitter tag has some legit white supremacist (at least one known to readers here) Trump supporters spinning a conspiracy about how Marco Rubio nearly knocked Trump into 3rd place in the republican caucus in Iowa tonight.

Hilarious.

NickNameNick
NickNameNick
5 years ago

@P.I.

And no, lurkers, that doesn’t mean I’m in an “echo chamber”. I’m well aware of what your side thinks about the topics, considering you never shut the fuck up about them.

It seems to me the people who complain about other people wanting an echo-chamber…well, actually want an echo-chamber of their own.

Every single time I or someone I know has been accused of that – it always came from someone who expected us to roll out the red carpet and patronize them. They don’t care that certain venues attract certain people and who may not share the same sensibilities as them, because of their overwhelming sense of entitlement. That, or the naivete to think every venue is a public forum.

Honestly, I’m just tired of having my safety and personal identity being considered “debatable” by these fuckers. My life is not your conversation piece, douchebros.

As Richard Dawkins shows, along with other hardcore antifeminist atheists, that many white cishet men often mistake disconnection with objectivity. They wrongly assume that, lacking personal experience, they will somehow manage to be less biased than those with that experience…which isn’t how biases work. It could be argued that lacking those experiences makes you more biased – as it downplays negative impact and presumptuously accepts the current status quo as being “how it always was.”

I mean, look at that evo-psych bullshit: it takes completely modern day attitudes and assumes those contemporary sensibilities somehow reflect those in societies from hundreds or thousands of years ago. The reality is obviously that societies then, were they seen first-hand, would come off as completely alien to us. Just because historical fiction recontextualizes many events to make them more comprehensible to those born in the 20th and 21st century doesn’t mean it is an accurate depiction of those times, yet these people like to think people treated politics and religion and ethics the exact same way we do now. It’s so intellectually lazy, it’s embarrassing.

I’d hate to tell all these manly men that, back in the years of the Persian Empire, it was common for men to wear make-up or use perfume. Hell, being as conspiratorially-minded as they are, I bet they’ll say it’s some elaborate obfuscation done by academic feminists and their “beta cucks”…

@U.P.N.

This reminds me of a day or so ago when I was looking for the full context to the Anita Sarkeesian “Everything is sexist” comments where she was describing herself first becoming a feminist as being annoying, and all I got was the clip with no context or rants about the clip without context.

Probably because that’s all they hear. Every conversation I’ve had with one reprehensible Gater or another involves them using completely out-of-context quotes, often from people I don’t even know, who are puzzled as to why I don’t hop on the Bitter Paranoid Woman-Hater bandwagon and claim I’m just being stubborn.

Maybe the reason because I don’t base the entirety on my views on a single sentence from what obviously came from a longer paragraph or article. Doesn’t help their quotes are in the “not even wrong” territory and thus not as inflammatory as they think…

katz
5 years ago

It seems to me the people who complain about other people wanting an echo-chamber…well, actually want an echo-chamber of their own.

Every single time I’ve been accused of that – it always came from someone who expected me to roll out the red carpet and patronize them. They don’t care that certain venues with attract certain people and who may not share the same sensibilities as them, because of their overwhelming sense of entitlement. That, or the naivete to think every venue is a public forum.

Just as people who accuse you of being closed-minded and refusing to consider other people’s opinions aren’t usually open-minded about considering your opinions.

sevenofmine
sevenofmine
5 years ago

As Richard Dawkins shows, along with other hardcore antifeminist atheists, that many white cishet men often mistake disconnection with objectivity. They wrongly assume that, lacking personal experience, they will somehow manage to be less biased than those with that experience…which isn’t how biases work. It could be argued that lacking those experiences makes you more biased – as it downplays negative impact and presumptuously accepts the current status quo as being “how it always was.”

They see rationality as some kind of state of being as opposed to a process in which one engages consciously. They think they simply are logical. They assume themselves to be impartial which, in turn, makes them complete slaves to their biases. It never occurs to them to question anything that affirms their preconceptions because, in their framework, they wouldn’t be able to believe a thing if it wasn’t rational.

For me it really illustrates the absurdity of the manosphere because the only way any of their “logic” works is if you don’t understand what logic even is.

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