Over in the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit, one recent convert to the MGTOW philosophy admits that there is one thing about the females that’s really baffling.
Namely, why do any of them work, when they could just use their magic hoo-has to snag some poor dude and live off of him, lying on the couch watching Jerry Springer amidst a pile of bon-bon wrappers?
[H]ow does MGTOW explain working women? Why do women work low or pseudo status positions for employers that are primarily public facing? I feel like the women who work at Waffle House / Starbucks / whatever probably have a more consistently stressful time of things than I do working a STEM job, they’re paid less, and they’re burning SMV time working a plebian job.
Why do women work low and pseudo status positions like these? How does MGTOW explain women who opt in to these arrangements when they could likely bf/marry/B.D.Govt their way to a less stressful life?
In case you’re not intimately familiar with misogyny-speak, SMV stands for “Sexual Market Value,” which, these dudes believe, starts declining for women after they hit the ripe old age of 25 or so and start getting all old and ugly. And “B.D.Govt” means “Big Daddy Government,” always ready to help a girl out with some of that sweet, sweet welfare cash.
Happily, the subreddit’s regulars are more than willing to mansplain the puzzling fact of women having jobs.
A fellow called NormanDaNubcaek has a whole long list of reasons.
-They may have squandered their childhood/teen years, already putting them at a disadvantage to serious students
-They don’t want to put in the initial effort getting the proper training (Think instant vs delayed gratification)
-STEM actually requires critical thinking skills
-The job, while perhaps stressful, is regular and simple (more repetitive work vs less work that is more complex)
-Their jobs already have a lot of women, so they just join the pack, or other women recommend them to join
-They already have massive debt from a garbage degree and can’t afford to go back to school
-They used to be supported by a man, but now have to earn their own living until the next guy comes around.
Lostapwbm has a somewhat more detailed explanation, and one that is slightly more rooted in consensus reality, if not always in the rules of grammar.
“Poor women have always had to work,” he writes.
Housewife is typically a role that only the wife of a successful or frugal man, and feminism is a vanity project of rich white women.
So why can’t these Starbucks ladies “bf/marry their way out” of the working world? First, he explains, there’s the problem of man-access.
[T]hey don’t have access to a man of sufficiently higher economic status that she can go from working woman to housewife/lady of the house.
And then of course there is the problem of these women being such stuck up snooty you-know-whats that they can’t appreciate the perfectly decent men right there under their nose ISN’T THAT RIGHT KIMBERLY SOME DAY YOU’LL REALIZE I WAS THERE ALL ALONG WE WERE MEANT TO BE oh whoops.
A lot of women aren’t attracted to the type of man who would lift her out of her lower economic status. He’s boring/lame/has no game. He just wants to move up his job, pay his bills, and basically live a drama-free life.
Well, ok, but what about living off of Big Daddy G?
Women dependent on the government (B.D. Govt as you put it) are in that category of drama-lovers. Three kids by two guys, ex-boyfriends are drug addicts/dealers, whatever you prefer, but the takeaway is these women don’t want a less stressful life because they emotionally feed on that drama.
Wordjedi agrees that these Starbucks baristas are a bunch of stuck up rom-com lovers holding out for some imaginary perfect dude but ha ha the joke’s on them — if they sleep with too many Mr. Right-Nows while waiting for Mr. Right, they’ll get so burned out on dick that something something cats box of wine.
Yeah, I’m having a little trouble summarizing this one. You try:
Remember that women still flock to romcom movies in droves. They still really think mating is equal, that two people who were meant to be together tritely run together through a meadow and embrace.
Until she finds her perfect six figure hunk, a girl’s gotta have some random stiff dick in her now and then, right? Especially when she’s had a few drinks so has an excuse not to give a fuck? ====> hookup culture.
Unfortunately, people give less and less of an (emotional) fuck for each random hookup. Bye bye, perfect romance. She’s bored with dick by the time she meets him, if she ever does. ====> box wine + cats + Starbucks barista 4-evah
The explanaiton proffered by good_man_gone is if anything even less cogent. He starts out by suggesting that any women you see working just weren’t pretty enough to score themselves the high-quality beta bux.
“I never in my life have seen a perfect ten flipping burgers for 7$ /hour,” he declares, with an almost audible wink.
But then he goes on to suggest that almost any gal — even those who are perhaps not that pretty — can find a man dumb enough to marry her up or at least buy her a couple of drinks at closing time amirite fellas?
And still there is plenty of guys out there who will happily marry the 3s or 4s and give them money. Smv is key here. Better looks = more free stuff and money. But fugly chicks get free drinks too you know.
I have to admit I was guilty of that in the past. You know when the pub is about to close and u are hammered and suddenly your brain tells you “go ahead buy her a drink, yeah the fat small chick over there do it”
I guess the real lesson here is to never ask MGTOWs for an explanation of anything.
THAT’S THE ONE! 😀
@Jackie: I take it I’m the Sailor Moon cosplayer? XD
You are the one Sailor Moon.
@ SFHC
Is the cat playing that ‘Botticelli’ game? You know the “Am I an historical figure?” one.
Two fingers of Miss “So’s Your Face” appear to be glued together. I’ll bet that the cigarette smoker did it. I would’ve slugged him.
@Johanna Roberts
I’m so sorry that happened to you. Those kinds of things can really mess with your self-esteem. I hope that things are looking up.
This question reminds me of something my college boyfriend told me. His roommate had “explained” to him that rape was just something women alleged when they felt guilty about having had a night of enthusiastic, consensual, no-strings-attached sex.
This had sounded legit to my boyfriend–who was actually a decent and intelligent person.
Then one day he saw a flyer on campus, something about how women could protect themselves against rape.
A lightbulb went off over his head.
Yup! And even if a poor woman did luck into the kind of looks that the manosphere appreciates, she’s not going to look that way while flipping the burgers. I say that as a woman who’s worked her share of shit jobs. Let’s see, what are the criteria?
Bod: Here, wear this shapeless polo shirt and these 80s pleated pants.
Cascade of flowing hair: Put that shit up in a hairnet. And wear this ball cap on top of the hairnet.
Makeup: I mean, you could wear an assload of makeup to flip burgers, I worked with women who did, but I tried it and it felt gross. You need those pores for sweating when you’re back there.
Talonlike nails: Not allowed.
And so on. Plus you’re tired and in pain all the time. Scarlett Freaking Johansson (or insert whoever they think is hawt) would look awful as a fast food worker. I don’t mean got up as one for the movies with professional makeup and a tailored “uniform,” I mean the reality of it.
I’m actually surprised these assholes didn’t even come up with what I thought would be the most obvious misogynist theory: that she’s working in restaurants specifically to pick up wealthy customers. But I hate to give them any ideas. LOL!
@Bina:
To be fair, unless they’d previously made it clear they were into that, they might be justified in not getting it.
I’ve heard it said that love is “a battlefield”, “a stranger” and “an open door”.
But it turns out love is my mate’s annoyingly aggressive Jack Russell Terrier.
@Paradoxical Intention
Yay! A bon bon tote bag so I can tote my bon bons!
(Cool design!)
(link from Lkeke35)
This is a thing that I have encountered second-hand, but in a grown man and not a two year old boy. Legitimately the same thing.
My sister is 3/4 of the way through a separation from her abusive ex-husband. During the last weeks before she and the kids moved out, he was unbearable to her – begging and pleading, howling tears and accusations that she was doing drugs and cheating on him – all in front of the kids, too; he didn’t care at all.
(My sister doesn’t drink anything stronger than black coffee, and at the time worked full-time while he was unemployed, and also took care of the kids – he didn’t even watch them while unemployed and at home. She had no time for sleep, much less sleeping around)
This video reminded me of an episode where she had locked him out of the room so that she could clean and sort things after the children were in bed. He howled and cried, laying on the floor in front of the bathroom. She was ignoring him, and turned on the shower (on-suite bathroom).
The very moment the shower turned on (which was loud enough that, if she were in it, she couldn’t hear him) the tantrum stopped and he got up and went to bed. No delay.
I still get livid just thinking about it, or the hundreds of other twists he turned.
Sorry for the diversion, but I had to mention the story after seeing the video!
Lets see, I work to:
1) Make sure I have housing, food, and electricity
2) Finance degree #3 that I’m starting in on this August! (Engineering)
3) Keep from getting bored
4) Keep all that fun math from degree #1 fresh in my brain
5) Keep EMS/Fire skills sharp!
The boyfriend, for me, is totally ir-elephant. I don’t have one, I don’t want one, and even if I did have a ‘sugar daddy’ to buy me stuff, it wouldn’t change reasons 2-5, which are very, very important to me.
Like everything, the list of reasons vary for pretty much every woman.
Edit: I’m getting to help with the newest batch of Fire 1 students. It’s fun. I got to set some diesel fires so they could learn to use class B foam and dry chem extinguishers on a nice, toasty fire.
And then I got to help with getting some of them a little more efficient at SCBA donning.
I’m less than a year of having a Fire 1 cert, and I’m already being a mentor. This is both really cool and really weird feeling.
I’m yet to get through other posts, but this stopped me in my tracks.
I only skimmed through half of this as I am rushed, but Oh.. My.. Lord!
I know. Why am I surprised?
Let’s just say I’m so, SO glad that I’m way past MGTOW’s age limit. I really wish they would go their own way somewhere and stop bellyaching about how evil we all are when clearly, no woman would be good enough for their precious selves.
Is there any point in even trying to tell them our reasons for wanting a career?
We can’t win and that is that.
I’m envisioning them on a boat, now.
Going their own way..
P.S. I know women who are stunning (depending on one’s view of beauty) but trust me when I say they’ve been in financially abusive relationships. There is a lot more to it than many take into consideration.
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/speechless.gif
@Pandapool,
inorite? He’s the sort of guy who would barge into my office (I work from home) and gabble on about how horrible my province is compared to his home because you just can’t buy good beer here, and how unfair his boss is… all the while oblivious to my desperate “please fuck off and let me finish this work my deadline is in two hours” body language.
But I’m the jerk for, after 15 minutes, interrupting him and politely aksing him to come back when I’m not so busy.
Definition of entitled obliviousness, he is.
Well, I have heard of puppy love, but that is…ridiculous.
And then, there’s this kitteh, who I think comes from the same place as the Jack Russell:
http://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/cat-attacks-bites-man-ass-animation.gif
@Scildfreja
That’s…a way to describe it.
I love the furrowed brows as they try to figure out why it is that women work when there are MEN available. It couldn’t be that women like to use their minds, earn money, help people, and contribute to society…oh, I know! It must be that she’s addled by romcoms and drug dealer cock and has a garbage degree and doesn’t know what she wants! Typical female, reaping cash and prizes from the Vagina Cartel! Big Daddy Government will take care of her!
Any time these guys apply their minds to a social phenomenon, they come up with the most convoluted, unbelievable explanation possible. It’s like the opposite of Occam’s Razor. It’s Crockham’s Razor.
Oh, I MUST remember that. It’s perfect!
(I usually just refer to it as being Elaborately Stupid.)
3 Thoughts:
1. For what it is worth, and only what its worth (and I’m a never married cis man without children), most of the women I know (including those in relationships) work. It provides a good financial advantage as having your own income is a tremendous advantage (even if coupled/living together two incomes vs one housing cost is better than 1). Plus, with the way Social Security works in the US, to not work could be putting yourself at a disadvantage for retirement. And the women I know who work as barristas at least 2 do so in addition to what they are doing for a living (the manager who will work solo works for a major company and runs the coffee place because she considers the regulars friends and wants it open, one of the employees is finishing her student teaching and will be an elementary school teacher soon, she works in the coffee shop to help pay bills along the way).
2. In addition, I’m not a mighty STEM graduate (just a full-time accountant, part-time tax preparer), but to comment on someone’s economic choices/situation even if you knew them (and especially if you don’t) shows a profound lack of empathy.
3. Also, MGTOW is in my view, not really about going their own way but rather about getting enough men to follow them and try to pull a Lyrstrata gambit and get everything they want. It won’t work but that’s the sense I get of it.
And, regarding movies, I’m looking forward to Deadpool but I *really* want to see Suicide Squad (I like movies that focus on villians and bad people trying to do good).
Sorry for the scatteredness but I really couldn’t think of how to seamlessly connect my various thoughts.
@Bina – Maybe it should be Cockham’s Razor, seeing as how MGTOW interpret everything in terms of how it affects their boners.
I dunno, Cockham’s Razor makes me think of that odd troll from a month ago or so who wouldn’t shut up about ranking men by penis size.
@scildfreja
That’s infuriating. I’m glad that your sister was able to get away from him and that you were able to be there for her.
@LindsayIrene
I call that troll Walter-Orange Tango Drinker-Gavan.
It does sound like a phrase that would need the qualifier “bone pressed.”