Almost three years ago, a feminist activist committed what many not-so-impartial observers apparently see as an unpardonable sin: she was less than polite to a small squad of Men’s Rights activists at a demonstration in Toronto. At least one of these gentlemen caught her outburst on video, and uploaded it to YouTube.
You know the rest: the video went viral, and the activist, a red-headed woman known as Chanty Binx (or “Big Red,” to the douchebag army), found herself suddenly transformed into “The Posterchild of Everything Wrong with Feminism,” as one of her haters put it. Her face has become ubiquitous in antifeminist memes, and she’s endured nearly three years of harassment.
Earlier this month, antifeminist YouTuber Sargon of Akkad — who makes his living pandering to some of the internet’s worst lady haters — posted an animated video by another antifeminist YouTuber in which an angry Islamist and an angry feminist sing a song explaining that they pretty much believe all the same things. (For some reason, this nonsensical theory is something that a lot of antifeminists have convinced themselves is true.)
The angry Islamist in the video is a familiar racist stereotype, complete with “funny” accent. [Correction: He’s evidently supposed to be a parody of this guy, known as Dawah Man, a legitimately terrible person you wouldn’t think atheists would have to strawman in order to criticize..]
The angry feminist, meanwhile, isn’t a generic figure; she’s an especially crude caricature of Binx, spouting nonsense that neither Binx nor any other feminist actually believes: the video ends with her encouraging the Islamist to rape her, because it’s not really rape if a Muslim does it, dontchaknow.
It’s a vicious, hateful little cartoon made worse by the fact that these words are being put in the mouth of a real woman who’s been the target of a vast harassment campaign for years.
Yesterday, Richard Dawkins, apparently seeing this horrendous video as a clever takedown of some brand of feminism that he must think actually exists, shared it with his 1.3 million Twitter followers:
Dawkins, a well-respected scientist-turned-embarrassing-atheist-ideologue, has become notorious for his endless Twitter gaffes. But this is plainly worse than, say, his famously pathetic lament about airport security “dundridges” taking his jar of honey; his Tweet contributed to the demonization of a real woman who’s already the target of harassment and threats.
The awesome Lindy West pointed this out to him in a series of Tweets and linked to one of my posts cataloging some of the abuse Binx got after the video of her went viral.
In a series of eloquent and angry Tweets, she made clear to Dawkins how and why he was misusing his huge platform and contributing to an atmosphere of hate online. Dawkins, alternately indignant and defensive, ultimately took down the offending Tweet, but not before making other Tweets that were nearly as bad. Dawkins can’t even do the right thing without being a dick about it.
Let’s watch Lindy at work:
After what was apparently an unsatisfactory response from Dawkins — I couldn’t find his Tweet, if there was one — West repeated and expanded upon her basic points. [EDIT: The unsastisfactory respose, West tells me, was that Dawkins posted a link to one of the videos of Chanty Binx at the Toronto demonstration.]
Well, that got his attention:
So there you have it: when informed that a tweet of his will almost certainly worsen the vicious harassment faced by a young woman whose only “crime” was being rude to a couple of MRAs in public, Richard Dawkins, a one-time winner of the American Humanist Association’s Humanist of the Year Award, replies by saying that “she deserves nothing more than ridicule.”
West replied:
Dawkins then decided to suggest that perhaps Binx was, you know, crazy:
Dawkins ultimately agreed to take down his Tweet linking to the execrable video. But he offered no apology. And he went on to suggest that just maybe Binx had … threatened herself.
We’ve seen this, er, argument before.
Does Dawkins have any conception of just how much abuse women like Chanty Binx get? If she were sending herself all the threatening and harassing messages she gets, she wouldn’t have time to eat or sleep.
And I wonder if Dawkins thinks she drew the caricature of herself that was used in the video he retweeted.
Thoughtful as ever, Dawkins made sure to remind his 1.3 million followers that Binx still deserved all the mockery they could deliver. Just not the death threats please!
And he begged his readers to think about the real victims here — those people, like him, who might have to curtail their mockery somewhat because their terrible, terrible fans might be inspired to hurt someone.
RIP, Richard Dawkins’ comedy career.
Is Dawkins actually unaware that by punching down at a woman who’s already been the target of a three year harassment campaign he almost certainly is contributing to the threats he claims to deplore? It’s hard for me to believe that he could be so naive. But the alternative explanation — that he knows full well that he’s encouraging the harassers — is even more disquieting.
One good thing has come out of this ugly episode today: The Northeast Conference on Science & Skepticism has un-invited Dawkins from its event this year. A post on the group’s website today explains:
The Northeast Conference on Science & Skepticism has withdrawn its invitation to Richard Dawkins to participate at NECSS 2016. We have taken this action in response to Dr. Dawkins’ approving re-tweet of a highly offensive video.
We believe strongly in freedom of speech and freedom to express unpopular, and even offensive, views. However, unnecessarily divisive, counterproductive, and even hateful speech runs contrary to our mission and the environment we wish to foster at NECSS. The sentiments expressed in the video do not represent the values of NECSS or its sponsoring organizations.
We will issue a full refund to any NECSS attendee who wishes to cancel their registration due to this announcement.
The NECSS Team
Good for them. The atheist movement needs to stand up to the haters and harassers in its midst, including those like Dawkins, who may not directly harass or threaten but who use their huge platforms to amplify and embolden this hatred and harassment.
It would be nice if Dawkins were to actually learn something — a little humanity, a little humility? — from this incident, but when it comes to the subject of feminism Dawkins seems incapable of taking in new information, much less learning anything from it.
EDITED TO ADD: And now, as if to prov what I just said in that previous paragraph, Dawkins is now second-guessing his decision to take down his tweet linking to the video, because GamerGaters are telling him that Chanty and I made up the evidence of the abuse she got.
NOTE: Lindy West has a book coming out soon. Pre-order it below!
CORRECTION: I added a bit noting that the Islamist in the cartoon video is supposed to be a parody of a real person.
EDIT: I added a line about Dawkins tweeting a link to a video of Chanty Binx at the Toronto demonstration.
Lindy West has a much higher opinion of Dawkins’ reasoning skills than I do, but regardless, it’s pretty clear at this point that Dawkins is only a feminist insofar as it lets him feel superior to others. When feminists criticize him and his followers, they ‘deserve all the ridicule’.
No, but it definitely seems to be the motivation for a lot of deconversions among that crowd! And it explains why so many of them seem to think that feminists and Puritans are basically the same thing.
I don’t think they even know how to articulate what they really want, but I think it boils down to this: game publishers continue to cater to me and my tastes, don’t acknowledge the changing demographics or listen to criticisms from their perspectives, etc, because as we all know, they’re fake gamers and I’m real.
Richard Dawkins calling somebody a vile human being: oh, the irony!
(Sorry if that’s been noted already, I may not make it through all five pages of comments tonight.)
(p.s. hi, sorta new, in that this is like my second comment ever but I have spent waaaaay too long reading the archives)
That’s probably true. I think a lot of the reason there are times when atheists feel attacked here is because people say “atheism” when they are talking about “movement atheism.”
It would be nice if people would actually tack the “movement” on if that’s what they’re talking about. It would probably greatly reduce the number of times we have to discuss the issue.
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/omgw.gif
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/dww.gif
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/whowut.gif
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/sawat.gif
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/whmb.gif
Please for the love of fucking Satan, let those fucking memes be just “post-racial/post-sexist irony” or some shit.
I know this has been dropped, but I still want to reply to something that was directed at me. Feel free to drop it, IN51P1D.
I appreciate the clarification, thank you.
How so? People are pointing out that atheism has a problem with misogyny and that many of the people gaining fame (or infamy) in the atheist community are they themselves misogynists.
That’s not the same thing as saying “all atheists are misogynists and hate feminism”, it’s just saying that the most well-known people are.
That doesn’t mean that he’s one, actually secular, or two, automatically atheist.
There are plenty of religious folk who are plenty secular, and any speculation on your part or other people’s part is just that, speculation.
Your whole rant came off as “I’m so tired of people talking about how atheists are sexist! Atheism’s not sexist! I’m not sexist! Stop generalizing!”, so yeah, telling us to shut up about it isn’t helping either.
My response to that wasn’t meant to be “helpful” to you. It was a request for you to stop shouting down people who are talking about sexism.
I’m personally tired of having to field comments from men about how me talking about sexism is somehow making them a victim.
I’m tired of hearing cishet or other LGBT+ people telling me that me talking about homophobia/transphobia/ pan/bi/ace erasure is somehow making them uncomfortable because they’re “not like that”.
Rather than addressing what is the problem, they’d rather shout me, and others like me, down than deal with it, and your whole rant came across like this. “I’m not sexist! Why are you generalizing atheists?!”
So, forgive me for being a bit pointed about that. I don’t think it was your intention to come across like this, but, as I like to say, intention isn’t magical.
I can understand where you’re coming from. I’m white, and it sometimes hurts to hear people use the phrase “I hate white people”. I didn’t do anything, so why do they hate me? Then I realize they’re talking about the system I benefit from just for being white.
However, this isn’t the same thing. You’re taking a lot of other people’s comments as personal attacks or attacks on atheism in general, when all the commenters are doing is substituting a word (atheists/atheism) instead of saying “I hate specific atheists that are upholding sexist systematic injustices because they hate women or don’t think women are worth the same as they are”.
There’s a word for this, but I can’t recall what it is.
I also want to address one more thing:
I don’t see why we shouldn’t be able suggest a correlation between atheism and sexism, because that could start a dialogue on how to solve the problem, instead of just shutting up so we can spare your feelings.
It’s upsetting. I get it. No one wants to be “the bad guy”. We all want to think we’re doing right. You don’t want to think you’re sexist.
However, sexism isn’t going to be stopped until you take that first hard step and realize that, yeah, you could have a problem with sexism.
To bring up the example I previously used: I don’t want to be called racist, but I realized that I couldn’t help stop racism until I accepted that yeah, sometimes I can be racist without realizing it. Once I accept that, then I can take steps to be a better person and not be racist.
But, that doesn’t change the fact that the atheist community at large has a problem with sexism.
And that doesn’t change the fact that you are seemingly asking us to kindly shut up about it so you don’t feel bad.
Hello, and welcome! Have a Welcome Package!
Richard Dawkins kicked out from atheist convention for retweeting Sargon of Akkad. Never thought I’d see the day but I’m glad it happened.
@Chaltab “I don’t think they even know how to articulate what they really want, but I think it boils down to this: game publishers continue to cater to me and my tastes, don’t acknowledge the changing demographics or listen to criticisms from their perspectives, etc, because as we all know, they’re fake gamers and I’m real.”
Yeah, the real motives of Gamergate is that they want to continue jacking off to virtual women and not let any real girls play the games. They don’t want videogames to be catered to the mainstream.
Hi ephemerides! Love your nickname. Have a welcome package!
http://img15.deviantart.net/2add/i/2013/195/5/d/welcome_package_by_jewelleddragon13-d6dj25h.jpg
From what I know about humanism, I probably would call myself that, but I don’t enough enough to commit to the label. (Although at this point, I’d probably call myself a humanist before atheist, even though it seems that no one knows what a humanist actual is with the whole, “why be feminist when you can be humanist?” shtick.)
Welcome Ephemerides.
Welcome back, Kirby! Good ta see ya.
Welcome, Ephemerides! Pull up a hard chair and light a scented candle, and misander with us.
Apropos Sargon…the internet asshole might want to take a closer look at his namesake. Looky what I found about his daughter:
Yeah, I’d say THAT kind of puts a crimp in the mighty thunderings of you-know-who…
This is what happens when %98 of the top atheists are straight privileged white males. This is why diversity is needed so we can hear the other voices.
I don’t think this would’ve happened if the top skeptics were a 50/50 ratio of male and female, different races, and orientations etc. I think there’s a reason why it’s primarily only feminism that’s being attacked. It really sucks..
Holy shit, those “UNTIL YOU’RE AN ATHEIST” bits are delightful.
To be fair, there are LOTS of parts of North America I’m which you’ll be viewed with suspicion and general disapproval for being an atheist. I’m just not willing to take that and extrapolate it to, “I know exactly what it’s like to be a person of colour, forced to sit at the back of the bus! Or to be physically disabled, unable to navigate the streets of my own city safely because civic design doesn’t take my disability into account!” Atheists arent being murdered for being atheists in North America. No, they’re generally not viewed positively and that isn’t OK but it’s hardly the disastrous oppression some of these douchebros want to make it out to be. It’s bigotry and its marginalisation but let’s keep it in its right context. It doesn’t inconvenience us to an extent comparable to ethnicity or ability.
Still, its a pain in the ass and its got to stop.
Well, feminism and Muslims.
Hi ephemerides!
Kirby, it’s always nice to see you.
First off, I think I’m having a hard time communicating my thoughts in this forum, so I’m going to put this out there: no matter what you think I’m saying, I promise you that I don’t mean to be insulting, and I don’t ever want to stifle conversation or drown anyone out, and I mean well. Please try to interpret me through that lens. I’m coming from a place of love, always.
To answer you: I don’t think that implying a correlation between atheism and sexism is any more appropriate than implying a correlation between Judaism and tight-fistedness, or Islam and violence. We have come to understand, I think, that those are offensive things to say, that they are not true, and that they don’t help bring people together. A prominent atheist (and also some YouTube-famous ones) said some disgusting things, and that’s upsetting to us all. What I’m hoping to convey is that, as an atheist, some of the things I’ve read here make me feel alienated and unwelcome. I want you to know that because I don’t think that’s what you were going for.
There’s another sentiment I want to address that I keep seeing: the idea that I shouldn’t be complaining about how this community treats atheists because other minority groups have it much worse in other communities. I think that’s…I’ll be delicate and say “misguided”.
I agree with the notion that, as members of a group, we have a responsibility to make sure that group is what we want it to be. (Richard Dawkins is not in my group. I don’t know the guy, and he’s not somebody I’d interact with. We’re both atheists…maybe we’re both Leos too, but that doesn’t mean much either.) As a group that chose each other, and especially as a group with a worthwhile political philosophy, who wants to spread that philosophy, I would like to see you all be more welcoming of outsiders. Don’t get defensive and bully people, and don’t allow people in your group to bully. I’m sorry, I’m going on and on, i gotta stop.
@Scildfreja thanks for the kind words, I really didn’t want to call you out specifically, and I wish I’d stuck to my guns on that.
@katz
I remember Dawkins tweeting that Islam needed a “feminist revolution” though… I don’t know why he tweeted that when right now he retweeted a video making fun of both of them. Weird.
@LinkxZeldaFan
Probably because he hates Muslims as much he hates women.
I think it’s mostly a matter of the most-privileged members of a minority group co-opting the needs and voices of the group as a whole. Racial minority groups have been known to throw the women in their group under the bus. First-wave feminists often threw any woman who wasn’t white, straight, and middle class under the bus. Second-wave feminists often threw black women, transwomen, and sex workers under the bus. LGBTQIA+ advocacy groups have been known to throw anyone who isn’t a middle-class L or G under the bus. So, given that, would it really be surprising if organized atheist groups would mostly be represented by their least marginalized members? And that some of those “representatives” would be entitled assholes who don’t consider any other axis of oppression to be meaningful or relevant?
We need to find a way to monetize “people who don’t hang out here telling us how we should act.”
@LinkxZeldaFan
As I said earlier, Dawkins strikes me as someone for whom being a ‘feminist’ is only relevant if he’s using it to look down on someone else. He can point to the deplorable actions of fundamentalist Christians and Muslims against women and condemn them as problems caused by religion. But when you point out that misogyny is rampant among his own followers? He gets defensive and lashes out at feminists.
This thread might be pushing some sort of sealion density world record.
http://www.sealioncaves.com/images/slide-sea-lions.jpg
Yes, yes, the Almighty Dawkins is being crucified like the religious figure you worship him as. Sorry, dudebros, but feminists have a right to free speech as well. There is no sign that says “You must be this misogynistic to ride the First Amendment.” Deal with it.
(KIRBY! *glues Kirby to WHTM*)
@LinkxZelda
Oh, but this line of thinking is very common in this sphere, dear. If you look at Sargon, TAA and Tfart, this is what they think:” I am all for equality and even a feminist! But white western society is too evolved to need it, we are more than equal and what western feminists want is a gynocracy. No, REAL feminism should go only through the first wave, and only far, far away from me in those inferior brown societies. If western feminists really cared about equality they’d do their activism there. They don’t care about the rights of women as a whole, I do”
You only change the setting to middle east or india and suddenly they are SO concerned about rape culture and woman rights. Suddenly they identify as (REAL!!!!!) feminists or egalitarian. It’s even funny to watch.
My boyfriend is just like that. I know this speech way too much *sigh*
Believe me, I’m trying. I did say that I do believe that you’re not here to purposefully be an ass, but again, intention isn’t magical, and you keep repeating yourself, and I am getting quite frustrated.
Except the stereotypes about Judaism and Islam have been used to hurt and even murder Jewish people and Islamic people, and those stereotypes were made up by other people based on either the actions of a few or made up out of whole-sale bullshit.
No one is saying that Atheists deserve to die because some of those people are huge misogynists, and no one here is saying that all atheists are like that because Dawkins, Sargon, and Thunderf00t are.
Pointing out that Atheism has sexist people in it, and talking about what we can do to stop that has nothing in common with nasty stereotypes that other people made up about Jewish people and Islamic people that have been used to justify violence against them, and I think that it’s very crass and insensitive of you to try to insinuate that there is.
On top of that, anyone can be sexist, regardless of race or belief system. You can also choose to be an atheist, Jewish people and Islamic people cannot choose to be born Jewish or Islamic. They can choose to follow that religion, but they cannot choose their race.
Except the way you worded it came off as “you need to be inclusive to me, so shut up about talking about sexism because you’re hurting my feelings!”, which I pointed out is a silencing tactic.
This discussion isn’t about you or your personal feelings. It’s about an atheist man who happens to be sexist and how his attitudes affect the atheist community because he’s well-known there and has lots of fans. It’s not a personal attack on you, nor your beliefs.
So, asking us to not talk about it to spare you personally and then accuse us of “bullying” and being “unwelcoming” to you because we are continuing to talk about it is really fucking gross of you.
I know that can be hard to hear that the group you’re in is known for sexism on behalf of people you don’t agree with, but ignoring it and shouting down other people who point it out instead of standing up against it does nothing but silence the people that sexism hurts the most, and also drives people away from atheism because that just shows that there’s not enough people who are willing to call it out.
Pointing out that atheism has a problem with sexism is not the same as being racist/sexist/ect, and I’m going to bite my tongue on anything else I have to say about that.
Don’t martyr yourself like this. It’s not a good look for you.
No one here is “bullying” you. No one here is being a “bully” by pointing out that there is a problem with sexism in atheism, or pointing out that you’re not helping the problem by trying to talk down to us and tell us to be “more welcoming” to you by not talking about sexism to spare your feelings.
Again, we get “defensive” because we’ve heard this argument a thousand upon a thousand times. “I’m not like that! Why are you saying I’m like that?! Stop talking about this thing and how it affects you!”
I’m so sick of hearing this bullshit of “you should be complacent and smile and be nice to people or else they won’t listen to you!”, when it’s so painfully obvious that other people aren’t going to listen to me anyways! Hell, you’ve been repeating yourself over and over and over and not listening to a damn thing I’m saying.
So why not get mad if the outcome is going to be exactly the same every goddamned time?
At least if I get mad, then I’ll get the bonus of catharsis.
@WWTH
Is your hipster friend the blonde tattooed guy, hair parted at the side, with black square glasses and crossing his arms in a place that looks like a cafeteria?
If he is, do tell him a complete random person in the Internet has had a massive crush on his looks for years.
Or better, don’t, cause that’s creepy af. Still, it’s true.