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Open Thread for Non-Personal Stuff: January 2016 Party Girls Edition

Get this party started on a Thursday night
Get this party started on a Thursday night

An open thread for non-personal stuff (there’s another one for personal stuff). As usual, no trolls, no MRAs here!

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proudfootz
proudfootz
5 years ago

I have the feeling that turning life into a ‘game’ is likely to result in feelings of resentment. How fulfilling can life be if it is simply a game?

You learn a lot of rules and techniques to ‘win’, but there will always be people who seem happier. But instead of doubting the worldview that gets you into that unhappy place, it’s built into the belief system that others are cheating you of your rightful due.

‘Game’ is predicated on contempt for others. I don’t see how that can bring anything but bitterness and hatefulness.

Moocow
Moocow
5 years ago

@BritterSweet

Like Kojima giving an insultingly ridiculous “justification” for why Quiet from the latest Metal Gear Solid game is dressed for fanservice.

Oh god, I literally just got to this part in the game. Sure, fucking photosynthesis, of course. It’s such a terrible excuse, it actually makes the blatant sexism even more pronounced.

@PoM

I agree. Dehumanizing women is a big part of ‘game’. Women are portrayed as just a number, or a plate, or a ‘lay’, mere objects in a game for the player to enjoy.

Then the player gets mad when the pieces of the game start acting on their own accord and don’t follow the ‘role’ they are prescribed.

@proudfootz

I think the idea that ‘oh it’s all a game and all you need to do is say the right things and you’ll win’ is providing a lot of reassurance in the unhealthiest of ways.

BritterSweet
5 years ago

@ Moocow

It’s just exacerbated by how Kojima said it. “There is actually an important plot-related reason for why she dresses like this, and when you find out you will feel ashamed of yourselves for calling me sexist. Now who wants to buy a figurine of her with the boobs made of softer material?”

Bernardo Soares
Bernardo Soares
5 years ago

As long as we’re talking about video games: am I the only one thinking, while watching promos for Far Cry Primal, that the whole “Stone Age” shick is just Ubi getting away with unbelievably racist imagery?

That Sarkeesian video, besides making a good point, is hilarious, btw. Particularly the part where she tries to get a glimpse of Batman’s butt. Someone, in a comment on another site, googled something like “asses” and “videogames” and got lists and lists à la “Top 10 Asses in Videogames” from major games sites. Ethics!

katz
5 years ago

You guys saw that this phenomenon has been named “Baby Got Backstory,” didn’t you?

https://www.idlethumbs.net/forums/topic/9724-baby-got-backstory-a-trope-creation-thread/

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

Been reading the thread in Katz’s link. I’m not impressed with how the dudes (and they do all seem to be dudes, at least up to where I am on page 6) argue examples into and out of the trope depending on frankly spurious things.

Like, on page 6 there is a post that argues that Bayonetta actually shouldn’t be included because it feels like “the character is all for it” with “it” being “running around with clothes that magically disappear whenever a superpower is being used.”

Yes, Bayonetta is absolutely an example of a female character’s gratuitous sexualization being justified in-universe with a reason other than the real one, which is that the creators got off on it. Any argument otherwise is absolutely bullshit. The fact that Bayonetta, who, as a fictional character, has no will or desires of her own and only does and wants what her creators plug into her, seems okay with her own sexualization, doesn’t make that sexualization any less gratuitious. It utterly baffles me how anyone could think otherwise.

And, while it is nice to see a term put onto it, the better term is IMHO one that is used in a post in the thread, specifically “sexualization by backstory.” “Baby got backstory” seems too precious and TVTropesish (little wonder, since it was proposed as a TVTropes page) to use with a straight face.

Moocow
Moocow
5 years ago

@BritterSweet

Did he actually think that excuse would totally dismiss any criticisms? Wow

@PoM

Many of the dudes in that thread (and in general) have this belief that, somewhere, somehow, there exists a heavily sexualized character who’s ‘totally not sexist’.

History Nerd
History Nerd
5 years ago

At least a significant amount of the anti-feminist stuff seems to come from people you could categorize as “mainstream liberals” in US politics. You can be in the moderate left and whatever civil rights causes happen to annoy you. Bill Clinton put less emphasis on stuff like feminism and civil rights so that the Democratic Party would seem less threatening to middle class white males. Their views on economics and foreign policy might be fairly left wing and they probably give token support for abortion and gay marriage.

In the case of 4chan, a lot of posters had those “liberal” political views or they were right libertarians. So the original “ironically racist” people on /pol/ actually were expressing their anxieties about social justice causes. Racist and far right groups (mostly “race realists” and KKK, Nazis are a minority) were aware of /pol/, but they were really put off by the crass humor and irreverence for traditional values. At some point after Obama got elected, a few far right moonbats got over that and tried to recruit people on 4chan.

GamerGate was essentially part of that recruitment strategy through a surprisingly effective use of crowd psychology and marketing techniques. You just need to give people an enemy to fear, make them feel helpless, and make them feel that some type of extreme measures are necessary to retaliate. Once people actually start doing extreme stuff, it’s harder for them to go back to a normal way of thinking. So you’ve pulled off a successful memetic hack and gotten people to incorporate anti-feminism into their belief systems. It doesn’t really matter what their political views are if you can play on their fear, anger, and disgust.

darkstatistic
darkstatistic
5 years ago

Curry: Yes, we appear to be in the same city. 🙂 Hi.

The initiative is beyond words. The more I look into them, the better I understand how incredibly useless they are. I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek about that whole “rich white women getting each other jobs at city hall” thing, but it turns out that’s actually quite an accurate summary. Right now their big thing is promoting a local blog by a (rich white) woman who decided to stay at home with her kids and is blogging her “transition”.

It’s beyond parody. But I’m sure interning there looks good on some (rich white) university girl’s resume.

Curry
Curry
5 years ago

It’s the sort of thing you’d expect cow(patty)town to fall for. I thought our city was better at selecting employees.

katz
5 years ago

And, while it is nice to see a term put onto it, the better term is IMHO one that is used in a post in the thread, specifically “sexualization by backstory.” “Baby got backstory” seems too precious and TVTropesish (little wonder, since it was proposed as a TVTropes page) to use with a straight face.

It is awfully cutesy, but for better or worse, TVTropes and other memeish things like that are the main driving force of media criticism these days. I swear to God, ninety percent of making a theory persuasive is coming up with a really internet-quotable name.

Curry
Curry
5 years ago

And I hate to agree with a passive-aggressive jab at rich university interns, but I think you might be right..

They really do like highlighting rich as fuck people, don’t they? The link to that photo shoot is just, wow.

I think they had a hollow word or two about intersectionality. OK.

darkstatistic
darkstatistic
5 years ago

Curry: Yeah, that was kind of unfair of me about the interns — it’s not their fault and at that point in your life you definitely do need whatever credentials or experience you can get. Still, I don’t see what this group exists for other than to provide some feathers for the caps of people who already have a lot of feathers.

darkstatistic
darkstatistic
5 years ago

But, I guess it doesn’t really matter. I’m just quietly blocking anyone who finds me as a result of my… uh… conversation with the initiative people. I’ve drafted a letter for my councillor but I don’t know if I’ll send it. I just don’t know if it’s worth escalating this. The video game mob seems to be trying to disguise itself — again — as honest and upstanding advocates for free speech and ethics, and are actively cuddling up with legitimate (if horribly executed) feminist groups. That alone is worth knowing about.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

Bernie Sanders can’t go anywhere. In a general election, he is too far outside the Overton window to be elected. More importantly, in the primary, he hasn’t done the legwork and put in the effort with black voters that the Clintons have done. His comments about reparations are just one problem among many wrt him and African Americans. Hillary Clinton is problematic as hell in many ways, but she and Bill have gone into black spaces and talked with and listened to black Americans many many times, over the course of literally decades. Too many Democrats take the black vote totally for granted, and the Clintons have never done that. It’s not like black people don’t notice this, but it’s no shock at all when white people don’t.

Yes, Clinton’s response to BLM was tone-deaf in many ways. Yes, she is hardly the ideal candidate of black Americans’ dreams. However, Sanders hasn’t done a fraction of what Clinton has done with the black Democratic base and can’t hope to ride her occasional gaffe to victory. And he definitely can’t win if black Americans line up behind Clinton.

Now, this is a true story: during the 2008 primaries, I was on a message board with some people who were die-hard Clinton fans and haaaaaaaaated Obama. When Obama took the primary victory, one of them was so outraged that he declared he was abandoning the Democratic party and voting Republican from now on. I don’t know if he carried through with this, because I dropped the board not long after, but given what I knew of his personality, I would not have been remotely surprised if he had. I would not be remotely surprised if some Sanders fans do a similar thing when Clinton wins the primary, which would really demonstrate their character.

@darkstatistic

The responsiveness of local government really depends on the local political culture. Sometimes there is literally nothing you can do to change it. With a small enough government, and enough energy and dedication on your part, tireless lobbying and prodding of the media can, over the long term, force a cultural change. However, not everyone has that kind of energy and if you don’t, that’s nothing to be ashamed of but it does mean there’s nothing you can do.

My city has an interesting culture, in that our government is dedicated to being culturally and economically diverse, but radically fails at this for assorted reasons, with the reasons being different depending on the agency/board/whatever. One major reason is that there is a limited number of people who have the time and energy to dedicate toward what amounts to volunteer service, and that time and energy is easier to come by if you are well-paid, which is to say, fairly high-income. Since it is also easier to be high-income if you are white and male, the demographic failure frequently occurs when most of a board or commission winds up being wealthy, white, and male, simply because those are the people who have knowledge, interest, and the leisure time to dedicate toward the commission. Networking and familiarity bias are also factors. Overcoming this requires effort and time, which nobody really seems to want to put in.

In the instance of my city, the dedication toward diversity and the lack of easily-located candidates with enough leisure time because: racism and sexism directly collide, and convenience always wins out. The city is party to several lawsuits because of this, but even the lawsuits haven’t changed anything.

I don’t want to sound pessimistic, but that’s kind of pessimistic.

One option available to you is always the media, if you think you have a local media outlet that will present a balanced story. It probably won’t wind up on the evening news, but there will likely be a story written about it for the paper, and the paper’s online version.

darkstatistic
darkstatistic
5 years ago

Yeah, I understand what you’re saying. It’s a tough situation to navigate, but I’m still pissed. It’s just perpetuating the privilege, and of course the marginalized can’t do much about it because they’re marginalized to begin with. It’s a wasted opportunity, at best, because they could have been more inclusive and actually done some good.

Maybe the media idea will work. I could send a few emails.

History Nerd
History Nerd
5 years ago

Sanders’s policies wouldn’t even get through a heavily Democratic Congress. Neither he nor Clinton would be a strong and effective left wing president, unfortunately.

Clinton is probably hoping that both the Democratic base and moderates will vote for her. If it ends up as Trump vs. Clinton, Trump will have to backpedal on all the bigoted stuff or he’ll unelectable.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

@darkstatistic

The more you research this story yourself, and the easier you make it for the reporter, the more likely it is that you will get one. A reporter with a deadline is more likely to use a story that requires minimal research and just some fact-checking than one that is merely a one-paragraph story suggestion. That shouldn’t be difficult with GG, since they have left evidence everywhere.

Curry
Curry
5 years ago

Darkstatistic, when this first came on my radar, I thought about contacting the media or the mayor.

I decided against it because a)I can’t handle the storm, we’ve seen how they destroy lives of even And b)obviously there’s cultural issues at the city level and they don’t give AF if this was allowed to happen in the first place. I’d love to see the email chain between the social media person and the supervisor when they were first harassed. How that turned into a “ok interact with these people who don’t live here and actively try to destroy women’s lives” given their mandate is just a wtf of epic levels.

darkstatistic
darkstatistic
5 years ago

“I’d love to see the email chain between the social media person and the supervisor when they were first harassed.”

You and me both, friend. What a principled stance! Such courage. Such advocacy. Such… bullshit.

I’ve been doing more research and it seems that we’re not the only ones in town who have questions/concerns about this group. I’ll keep digging.

authorialAlchemy
authorialAlchemy
5 years ago

Hey, Michigan resident here currently living in Detroit for college.

Has everyone heard about the Flint Water Crisis?

Look at this bullshit:

http://www.occupydemocrats.com/travesty-leaked-emails-reveal-republican-officials-made-fun-of-poisoned-flint-residents/

People have died:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/01/23/flin-j23.html

Also, the government knew the water was dirty for 10 months.

This isn’t the only city or neighborhood affected by this kind of negligence. Hell, I spent my teen years living with dirty water in a mold-infested trailer in a very poor trailer park. Mud came out of my faucet more than once. A few weeks after we moved there I got sick. It smelled like sulfur. The water was clear most of the time, but sometimes we did get Flint quality water. The well was old and we lived near a water treatment facility. A few years before my family left, the water was tested and it was found to have elevated levels of arsenic and e. coli bacteria, probably due to the well’s age and location. There was talk about switching to the city’s water supply, but that never happened.

Basically, it was Flint on a smaller scale. I’m also pretty sure the whole place was just there so the rich owner could continue to exploit the poor who were living there. Like, he sued these people because, apparently, they didn’t have the titles of their homes. We suspect he erased records. The place is still open and from what we know, the same old shit keeps happening.

A topic came up in a discussion in class and there was a woman who lived in a similar situation, trailer park and everything and I asked her if she was from my former neighborhood. She wasn’t.

Things like this affect poor people, and on larger scales such as Flint and a latinx neighborhood in California I heard about, poor PoC.

This pisses me of so much. Because the vast majority of Americans have clean water, we act like this isn’t such a big deal. But it’s an even bigger deal because we do have the resources to guarantee clean water, it’s just that a lot of poor people are being denied access.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

authorialAlchemy | January 23, 2016 at 11:49 pm

I’ve heard about it all over tumblr. It’s gross, and sickening that people are expected to live like this.

And all of this on top of the shitty, god-awful state of some of their public schools as well.

(And slightly OT, feel free to ignore: Is your username a Homestuck nod?)

authorialAlchemy
authorialAlchemy
5 years ago

Yeah, there were also public school problems in my hometown, but the problems in Detroit are worse. I saw kids protesting at the beginning of December at a Midtown/Cass Corridor event. The state of Michigan has been fucked up for a while now, just before and ever since the economic collapse, especially cities that used to manufacture things, like Detroit and its neighbors.

I have to move away soon, I can’t stay in my hometown. There is a good fine arts scene for hobbyists, but no jobs for someone who wants to do storyboarding. Even unskilled labor jobs are hard to come by.

(Yes, it is. :33)

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

(:D The reason why I chose green for my icon is a bit of a Homestuck nod as well (my aspect was Doom), so I figured I’d ask.)

OT: I just got into a conversation with a guy on twitter that says that feminists all lie about rape threats and when I showed him the thread about AVfM calling for information on the woman that reported Sage Gerard for breaking into the women’s restroom after he asked for instances of MRAs harassing feminists, he says “well they were doing public research on a feminist. And?”

AND HE JUST BROUGHT UP ERIN PRIZZEY, GOOD LORD. This guy doesn’t know when to shut up.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

I’d love to see the email chain between the social media person and the supervisor when they were first harassed.

Open records request. They’re not just for media. If your city has a robust open records policy (most do at this point) you can get whatever you want.

Rhuu
Rhuu
5 years ago

Saw this linked on my FB feed, thought it was really interesting:

http://mustbethistalltoride.com/2016/01/14/she-divorced-me-because-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink/

It was nice to see someone say ‘while this didn’t matter to me at all, they made it clear that it mattered to them. This becomes an excellent opportunity to show them how much I love them by doing something that would take four seconds.’

Comments are, as expected, mostly dudes telling his ex to buy a dishwasher, and that he was lucky to divorce her if she priorities dirty dishes over marriage vows. Sigh.

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
5 years ago

re: “Baby got Backstory”, in specific , Quiet.

Ugh. I have a friend who was trying to get me to play the game when it came out, raved about how good it was. So I looked into it and saw, this Quiet character (And the ridiculous cut scenes, and the double horrible figurine with the squishboobs).

I told him how offensive it was and he came back with exactly that – she can’t wear clothes cause she breathes through her skin you see! And she photosynthesizes so she doesn’t have to eat or do any of that gross pooping. She never talks either! And she can disappear so you can’t see her! And, in the game, you basically don’t see her at all except for in cut scenes! Where she’s inevitably rolling around on the ground under a shower in orgasmic glee! She’s like the perfect woman, apparently.

I tried to explain how gross this is, but he just couldn’t get it. He eventually admitted “I guess you might not want to look at that.” but to this day steadfastly refuses to see how horrible it is.

Ugh. Humans.

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
5 years ago

re: Bernie and his fanboys

I like Bernie. If I were an American I’d certainly be voting for him – and that’s acknowledging all of the issues he has, which aren’t small. I think that the biggest problem that America faces right now is the way corporations buy the votes of politicians, and that until that’s faced down any other political agendas will be overrun by corporate interests. He has a lot of problems – no doubt about that – but he represents a break from corporate control, while Hillary doesn’t.

More humanely, I hate seeing all of my American friends suffering under huge debt, massive banks and corporations that don’t care about them, a positively evil health care system, rampant gun violence, police brutality, lead poisoning… the list keeps getting bigger and bigger. I think Bernie’s a sharper declaration to those groups that the people are sick of what’s going on, and that statement is important.

Now, as to the fanboys (and some fangirls)…. Yeah, many are basically Ron Paul Fans with different hats. Somewhat more progressive in places! But by and large just as tribal, us-versus-them, unwilling to question the authority… it’s tragic. Really reminds me of the atheist movement, too, though that’s probably more due to the fish i swim with.

Moocow
Moocow
5 years ago

@Scildfreja

Sometimes I notice a lot of guys, especially when they like a game, will try to insist that it’s totes not misogynistic or sexist in any way, because then they can’t consider it a good video game. And that’s just terrible!

If you wanna get through to this guy, you could try something along the lines of:

“it may have excellent gameplay and a well-crafted world, but that doesn’t excuse the blatant sexualization of the only relevant female character in the whole game*”

Full disclosure, I use to believe that ‘plot justification’ made blatant sexualization ok (and it was Pandapool here on this blog who gave me the explanation so I’ll paraphrase them for this context)

“Even if it does technically count as a justification, the obvious goal here is to show of a woman in a state of undress for the (male) viewer. The paper-thin ‘explanation’ doesn’t suddenly make that ok”

Or point out that Quiet is treated on the same level as your Dog or your Horse, you can customize her just like you would choose which upgrades to put on your horse. Just like DDog, Quiet will ‘like’ you if you bring her out on missions more.

It seems like Kojima (along with a lot of other developers) decided to solve the symtoms rather than the problem. The biggest criticism of many ‘chainmail bikinis’ or other bullshit fighting attire was “not only is this sexist, but it makes zero logical sense for a warrior to fight wearing that outfit”

And it seems like the response has been “Oh, ok, well now it does technically make sense for her to fight naked. Problem solved!”

Also, Kojima has had many problems with overt sexism in his video games. The never-released-outside-of-Japan adventure game Policenauts allows the player to literally grope women. Apparently it was actually required to do so in order to advance the plot.

*Except for an underaged girl who was last seen piloting a metal gear in her underwear and has an infamous minigame where you get to go in a ‘date’ with her.

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
5 years ago

That’s really it, isn’t it. “I like this game, therefore there can be nothing bad in it, because if there was something bad in it, I’d be associated with it.” Brains are very good at masking potential flaws in ones’ self, and it can be painfully difficult to actually fish them out. Less stress to just assume personal flawlessness and instead invert any problems that crop up.

“It’s not sexist, you’re just a rabid feminist!”

“She’s not a sexist icon, she has a reason for dressing like that!”

“There’s no harassment going on, it’s ethics in journalism!”

I tried the method you suggest; it bounced off of the steely hide of the beast. Need either a sharper spear to get between the scales, or a really big hammer.

Moocow
Moocow
5 years ago

@Scildfreja

I’ve debated many Gaters and it’s by far the most common trait. They all take the criticism personally.

For whatever reasons (I believe video games tend to evoke strong emotions, probably because of how much is personally invested), criticizing a video game is taken as a personal offense more so than criticizing, say, a movie.

If that response bounces off, then here’s here’s a hammer:

“It’s possible to like metal gear solid 5 and still consider Quiet to be horrendously sexist, which is exactly the case. Just like it’s possible to consider Super Mario brothers ‘an absolute classic’ and consider it’s plotline to be horrendously sexist”*

“Photosynthesis is a bullshit excuse and if you don’t think that Hideo Kojima pulled that right out of his ass to cover his ass, then you’re giving him waaaaaaaaaay too much credit.”

Any delusion of Hideo Kojima’s grandure can be countered with:

“Her name is ‘Quiet’; yeah, that’s a totally original name for a sniper.”

and a sharp spear:

“It’s a shitty and inconsistent backstory: If she is photosynthetic, why the hell are they keeping her underground and why is she not dying? How does she not suffocate at night? Why do you get a gold and silver version of her as ‘upgrades’?”

“Hideo Kojima has a reputation shoehorning this crap in previous games. The B&B corps (4 women in skintight outfits) in MGS4 have pointlessly sexually exploitative gameplay sequences”. Policenauts ‘groping’, the MGS1 sequence of “identify Meryl by how she moves her ass when she walks”

“Quiet barely qualifies as a character, and there are barely any other female characters in MGS5, so this is especially bad. Imagine if this were genderflipped, and you were playing a game where the only male character was naked all the time, never said anything, and was interchangeable with a pet dog or horse. Would you feel encouraged to play that game?”
“Ok, now what if they said he has to be naked all the time because [insert BS justification], would you then consider it totally acceptable?”

“Even other MGS games, each with their own problematic elements, had better depictions of women, so this is a huge step backwards for the series and makes it very uninviting to women”

Pointing to examples of ‘this being done better’ is a double-edged spear (it can easily open up a whole can of worms) but I’ve found it very effective since these guys simply do not understand what sexism really is, so providing a frame of reference helps a lot. I don’t know your familiarity with the MGS series but these are some of the characters I usually point to, they’ve all got problematic elements but they’re all drastically better than Quiet:

The Boss from MGS3
Olga from MGS2
Meryl from MGS4 (and specifically not her MGS1 incarnation where she’s just a damsel in distress slash love interest with a gameplay sequences of “identify Meryl among masked terrorists because of how her ass moves when she walks”)

*I’ve been imagining an alternative plot for Super Mario Brothers that fixes the problems with the story while changing as little as possible:

-Super Mario finds out that the princess has gone missing, and Bowser has taken over the kingdom and turned everyone into Goombas (I think that’s close to the original?)
-End of each level “sorry mario, the princess is in another castle”
-After defeating the ‘real’ bowser on 8-4, Mario encounters Princess Peach, who’s revealed to have been behind the coup the entire time.
-Final Boss Fight against Peach ensues.

Thoughts?

dhag85
dhag85
5 years ago

-Luigi refuses to believe Peach is the evil mastermind
-The brothers are both nearly killed by Peach while arguing with each other
-Bowser uses his last strength to carry the brothers off to safety, in a rare moment of clarity
-In the sequel, you play as Peach trying to assassinate Mario who is now hidden somewhere in the Mushroom Kingdom
-Bowser is awaiting trial for his previous crimes, but there are growing demands from the public to pardon him
-Luigi has not been seen since the “incident” 6 months ago

Too much?

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

Someone once wrote, and I can’t remember who, that video games culture in the modern age must be understood as a post-war veteranocracy. Everyone who considers themselves a “gamer” remembers the struggle over the past few decades to avoid video games from being banned altogether or be censored into nothingness; and that struggle was won largely by pushing the alternate position that video games were entirely harmless toys which could not influence anyone towards anything and which contained no messages at all. In a sense it was a struggle between idiocy and nihilism, and nihilism won the day.

When #GGers take the debate personally (and as Moocow points out, they almost always do), then my opinion is that the reason they do it is because they are defending nihilism. They are saying “my hobby does not influence me in any way” and that is a statement which cannot be anything but deeply personal.

It’s wrong, of course, but like many things which are wrong, people take it very personally.

authorialAlchemy
authorialAlchemy
5 years ago
weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Did anyone watch the new X-Files yet?

Spoilers
.
.
.
It kind of seemed like it was written by Alex Jones or something. I sure hope there’s some sort of twist coming up that will take it in a different direction. The snarky tone that was taken towards Bill O’Reilly as well as the O’Malley character gives me some hope that they wouldn’t really make the entire story into a paranoid right wing reactionary fantasy. We’ll see.
.
.
.
Spoilers done

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

I’m not a gamer myself (dropped out after ‘Galaxians’ became too hard) but this might be of interest to people in light of the discussions here.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jan/25/beyond-lara-croft-30-truly-interesting-female-game-characters-part-one

kupo
kupo
5 years ago

Sorry if this was posted elsewhere. I’m seeing this story in my news feed with an unedited version of the photo which shows the girls’ faces. A bunch of people are saying they’re glad to see a version without the faces blurred because we shouldn’t be protecting racists. I get where that’s coming from, but with the state of things and how vigilante “justice” gets meted out wherever the Internet gets upset with someone for any perceived slight, maybe outing these girls isn’t in everyone’s best interest.

kupo
kupo
5 years ago

@Alan that makes me sad because most of the characters I recognized were just supporting roles with little screen time and which you couldn’t play as. I wish there were enough interesting female characters to make a list of all the ones you could play as.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

IMHO the deep investment that male gamers make in games comes from the relatively high price of games, both in terms of $$$ you shell out to buy them, and in terms of the time you put into them to play them.

Especially in the case of the old classics like Mario, someone might have played SMB for hundreds or even thousands of hours over the years. That’s an enormous investment. JRPGs commonly require a minimum of dozens of hours of gameplay, up to 100+ for a series like .hack//. You might also pay $60 or $80 for a single game when it’s brand-new, and if you’re at a point in your life where that is a shitload of money, you may not feel like admitting that you spent that money for a game that is deeply problematic.

So you’ve bought a game that is problematic but you don’t want to admit it because you’ve invested a lot of time, money, or both into it. Plus, the problematic content doesn’t really affect you (because “you” are male in this example and the problematic content is sexism). Plus, the problematic content really exists for the purpose of appealing to you (or, at least, some game designer’s idea of what is appealing to you).

It doesn’t come as any surprise to me when male gamers get up in arms over criticism of a game in those circumstances. They have reasons to want to like the game, and not be told that they spent money on something that sucks, and they haven’t yet developed enough human empathy to realize that something is a problem when it is a problem for anyone, and not just when the problem affects them personally. Some never develop that, so they never get over this.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

This is just hilarious. The asshats who tried to frame Planned Parenthood for selling fetal tissue instead got charged with a couple of crimes. http://gawker.com/grand-jury-investigating-planned-parenthood-videos-char-1755029262

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/David-Tennant-Laughing.gif

Freemage
Freemage
5 years ago

kupo: I wish I could be surprised that two out of the 8 responses took the, “Well, rap-singers use the word, too” tack.

Ugh.

And I agree with your concern–particularly in the case of women, and doubly particularly for young women/teens, the internet mob squad loves to swarm them. They’re immature idiots; let the school admins punish them appropriately, in a way that forces their parents to at least be aware that this shit won’t be tolerated, and move on.

*****

So, I’ve mentioned that I occasionally fill in on the phone desk here at work when the person who usually answers them is on lunch. When I went down today, she told me about how one of her callers had opened up by telling her, “You sound like Jessica Rabbit” and after she’d steered him through an actual professional conversation where she helped him with whatever it was he was calling about, he ‘thanked’ her by saying, “I owe you lunch; hope you like Mexican.”

I ‘eww’ed my sympathies and congratulated her on her professionalism and restraint.

Jessica Rabbit. Seriously.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

one of her callers had opened up by telling her, “You sound like Jessica Rabbit” and after she’d steered him through an actual professional conversation where she helped him with whatever it was he was calling about, he ‘thanked’ her by saying, “I owe you lunch; hope you like Mexican.”

“That would be inappropriate, actually.”

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
5 years ago

he ‘thanked’ her by saying, “I owe you lunch; hope you like Mexican.”

Gotta assert dominance – oh, wait, i mean ‘maintain frame’. Or whatever.

My condolences to your friend. And congratulations. That sort of restraint requires real ladyballs. (is that how that word is supposed to work?)

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
5 years ago

I wonder if the next time I hear of a bloke doing something brave I should say “wow, he must have ovaries of steel” … 🙂

(no snark or dig intended, I’m just sometimes struck by the weird-thing-ness of how we have so many expressions associating courage with (male) gonads)

Freemage’s colleague’s phonecaller sounds like a total arse.

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
5 years ago

… and if I’d refreshed, I would have seen that this ought to be (if anywhere) over on the other thread. :-s

dhag85
dhag85
5 years ago

Yesterday morning, a 22 year old employee was stabbed to death in a shelter for refugee minors, by one of the teenagers in their care. This is a shelter in my own city, where I could be working right now had they not turned me down when I applied for work there last year.

Yet, what’s most upsetting about this story, other than the loss of a life, is the backlash these children will receive. I don’t even want to look at political polls after this. Sigh.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

I’ve just watched an amazing documentary on BBC3*

It was about online trolling. They particularly looked at the mysogynistic stuff.

They tracked down some of the trolls and confronted them. Louise Mensch flew in from America to meet the one who’d sent porn and rape threats to her.

Oh, that Milo bloke was on too.

Here’s a link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06z68nn

(* BBC3 has had a few decent things on recently that Mamotheers might find interesting. Funny how it stops being crap just as they take it off air. Links below. TW for general horribleness)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b047zl98

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03cgtx5

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

Maybe not the greatest loss in the grand scheme of things, but perhaps you’ll allow me a sniffle.

1948 – 2016 🙁

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/29/last-land-rover-defender-rolls-off-production-line

Overly Long Name
Overly Long Name
5 years ago

Hello, I’m a site lurker who’s recently returned to this site, and has chosen to start comment despite having nothing interesting or profound to say. So recently I came up with a question based on discussions in two different thread, that I want to discuss with you guys, despite it not being super related to feminism or MRA, but is related to other social and political things, since you all seem to be well informed and intelligent (is that baity sounding? that feels baity sounding,) so where would I go about posting that sort of question ?