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A Voice for Men Admits it Published a Plagiarist, Then Calls Me a Fatty

Mmmmm, chicken!
Mmmmm, chicken!

At this point, after five plus years of observing his shenanigans from my roost in We Hunted the Mammoth Manor, there’s very little that Paul Elam could do that would really shock me.

But I have to admit that I was a bit shocked last night when I discovered a little bulletin on the internet garbage heap that is Elam’s A Voice for Men website with the title “Plagiarism discovered and removed from AVFM.” I was even more shocked to discover that Elam actually credited me with this discovery:

Recently, David Futrelle posted a piece on his agitprop site regarding an article published here which was written by Amartya Talukdar. Futrelle makes the allegation that part of Talukdar’s content was plagiarized.

AVFM staff investigated the claim as soon as we became aware of the allegation and found Futrelle’s claim to be true.

That last sentence is a sentence I never would have expected to see on AVFM, quite possibly the first acknowledgement of objective reality I’ve ever spotted on the site.

But evidently Elam is unable to keep up this level of truth-telling for long, and his “bulletin” quickly turns to damage control, minimizing the plagiarism itself and patting himself on the back for thinking about ways to try to keep from being humiliated like this again.

Indeed, even the brief portion of his note I just quoted downplays the extent — and the obviousness — of the plagiarism by now-former AVFM contributor Talukdar.

And the only “investigation” that AVFM would have needed to do to verify the plagiarism was to read my carefully documented post on the subject and click on some of its links.

I mean, the plagiarised post in question was full of paragraph-length, word-for-word “borrowings” from other sources, many of which I quoted verbatim, at length, with links back to where Talukdar got them. They basically had a solved case handed to them, with a little bow on top.

Elam continues, doing his best to downplay the extent of Talukdar’s plagiarism:

Without a doubt, there were passages in Amartya Talukdar’s piece that were directly lifted from the works of another writer or writers.

Not just “passages.” Practically the whole thing.

Elam also neglects to mention that Talukdar’s previous post, as I also showed in detail, was also heavily plagiarised.

Now, Elam, who describes himself on the AVFM masthead as its “Chief Executive Officer as well as its “Founder and Publisher,” is the person who is ultimately responsible for everything that runs on the site.

But instead of accepting the responsibility for posting numerous pieces by a brazen plagiarist on his site, and/or offering his readers an apology, Elam decides to attack me, first for noticing that he had taken down the posts without explanation and second … for being a fat fatty.

“In his fervor to blow this story out of proportion,” the thin-skinned Elam sniffs,

Futrelle followed up his initial piece almost immediately after I removed Talukdar’s material. He was so quick with his follow up assertion that Talukdar’s work had “mysteriously vanished” from AVFM that it appeared as though he was sitting there with a bucket of fried chicken, refreshing the site every ten seconds with a single greasy finger until he saw that the content had been removed.

Dude, if I were refreshing the page every ten seconds while eating fried chicken, I would have carefully kept that one finger grease-free.

Futrelle does his best to make it appear as though our intent was to remove the content and act like it was never there to begin with. In other words, the implication is that we sought to mislead our readers.

I dunno, dude, normally when a reputable media outlet takes down posts due to some egregious violation of basic journalistic ethics, they post a little note saying why. In this case the plagiarism was blatant and extensive, and there was no need for a long investigation. I provided you with all the evidence you needed.

Seems like maybe you should have posted a note.

Ah well, there’s always next time!

And I can only assume there will be a next time After all, this is the third time that AVFM has published plagiarised work in the last two years. In 2014, while apparently digging up dirt on former AVFMer John “The Other” Hembling, the site’s crack anti-plagiarism squad discovered that Hembling had plagiarised big chunks of one of his posts for AVFM.

Then last year, Voice for Men’s fake WhiteRibbon.org spinoff site proudly reposted an article on domestic violence that included some stolen material from other sites, including — irony alert! — a chunk plagiarised from feminist writer Amanda Marcotte, who’s been on AVFM’s enemies list from the start. In this case, AVFM almost certainly knew that it was posting plagiarised work — because the plagiarised piece in question had just gotten its (ostensible) author fired as a columnist for The Australian.

Maybe after another half-dozen plagiarism scandals AVFM will finally get it figured out.

But I don’t hold out much hope for them on the whole Holocaust denial thing. .

What, you ask, what Holocaust denial thing?

Well, as it turns out, AVFM’s latest disgraced plagiarist is also a bit of a Holocaust denier, given to posting Tweets like these here. Well, exactly like these here, since these are a couple of his (now deleted) Tweets. (Click on the screenshots for archived copies of the Tweets.)

ta1

ta2

When I first presented Elam with evidence of Talukdar’s Holocaust denial Tweets last year, he responded by blocking me on Twitter; AVFM’s then-managing-editor Dean Esmay, meanwhile, freaked out about the polite email I sent him on the subject, calling me a “sociopathic sadist” and a “stalker madman,’ and literally threatening to call the police.

So apparently Holocaust denial isn’t enough to get you canned at AVFM, but really really really blatant plagiarism is — provided that someone outside of their ridiculous website does all the work in ferreting it out and announces it to the world in a way that makes AVFM’s “staffers” look like the incompetents they are.

I guess that technically counts as a plagiarism policy, huh?

Now I’m really hankering for some nice greasy chicken.

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Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
9 years ago

@Alan

I guess I could email it to him, maybe? Maybe I should pull more articles up about Mawlynnong while I’m at it.

EDIT: So far, it’s 500 residents have a 100% literacy rate and is the cleanest village of all of Asia. So, I mean, matriarchy ain’t bad so far.

EDIT AGAIN: By cleanest, I mean most eco-friendly BTW.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

@ pandapool

I think that would be a great idea.

I’m really interested in matriarchies, I’d quite like to live in one, but most of the examples are historical or mythological. A real contemporary example would be a good jumping off point for discussion.

littleknown
littleknown
9 years ago

Re: Norway —

In Google Earth, the longest line you can draw from one end of Norway to the other is about 1,770 km. The northern tip of Tunisia is actually the closest part of Africa to Norway. 1,770 km from the southern tip of Norway can get you to the south of Corsica, but it’s still another 480 or so kilometers to Tunisia. (And you’d be about 860 km short if you headed for Morocco.)

Although, if you count Svalbard, Norway is actually about 2,630 km long — just enough to get you to Morocco.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

@ pandapool

*It’s* literacy rate, perhaps you should move there 😉 Sorry, couldn’t resist 🙂

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
9 years ago

@Alan

Okay, well, it turns out on some of the articles, some Mawlynnong/Khasi chipped in and say they aren’t a matriarchy but are matrilineal and that the local men’s rights group, Syngkhong Rympei Thymmai (SRT), is full of shit?

As a Khasi, I’m glad that we are being recognized as one of the last matrilineal cultures in the world. However, I’m tired of articles bringing up the very small minority of men who want to change Khasi society to become patrilineal, especially when they blame matrilineality as the cause of alcoholism and high mortality rates..That’s just an excuse for men who want to drink and feel sorry for themselves. We are matriliineal, not matriarchal. A matriarchy means that women rule, and that is not the case in Khasi culture. Actually, Khasi men have a very important role in Khasi society – they are seen as the protectors and when it comes to clan business, men are representatives for the family; Women are custodians of the home. Men are also always taken care of by the clan. You will not see a homeless Khasi person because they are also welcomed in the family, no matter what the circumstance. Also, if the family is able, they will share property between the females and males. –Ribhalin Kharpuri

So, like, IDK.

EDIT: Says the man who forgot two periods when he was correcting my grammar.

And don’t tempt me.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

@ littleknown

I think you’ve solved it!

My friends were bragging about Norway (the Morocco thing arose out of a debate as to who really owned the Faroes and Rockall) so they would count Svalbard.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

@ pandapool

If they have their own MRAs then that makes it an even better subject for mammoth!

Perfect.

ETA: Ha, touché, but everyone knows correct grammar is misandry 🙂

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
9 years ago

@Pandapool

Yes, I could, but it would take me forever to download that many shapefiles. LOL I was only really curious about the Norway thing.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
9 years ago

Oh, lol, Svalbard. My Norway shapefile doesn’t include it.

But if we include unincorporated islands, multiple countries become unexpectedly enormous.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

@ POM

As far as the British police are concerned, Pitcairn Island used to be part of Kent!

ETA: we now have an agreement with New Zealand to provide officers.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
9 years ago

Welp, this place isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be. According to some Mawlynnong/Khasi in the comments, it’s matrilineal and men and women work on the council. A lot of the pictures in the photo series I link is also romanticized, overly-sexual and downright misinformation which (which explains that weird HuffPo article I found of it).

It is perhaps also the first time that this series has appeared in India. As soon as it appeared – comments came up of the ‘staged’ ‘sexually suggestive’ as well as ‘incorrect information on the text’ by people from different states of India and not just from Meghalaya, myself included and we demanded that this feature be taken off the site.
I am from Meghalaya. I work across the arts and culture space and am not ignorant of art, artistic license, art critique. My very loud protest against this series is because of the following:
– the utter dishonesty in how each photo has been staged (for eg. 1. Children or adults regardless of gender do not roam around without clothes, for the very simple reason that the climate is moderate to cold in this district. 2. the necklace of dried fish does not and has never existed as an ornament 3. Playing with hooves. This is not a practice that exists at all, unless you are a butcher and handling the hooves.)
– the deeply disturbing almost pornographic nature of the photographs
– how does this series portray ‘lots of freedom’? as opposed to what? –comment by KHUBLEI

But, like, if a local men’s right groups wants to make this pretty equality-filled matrilineal village patrilineal just for reason, it could make an interesting article.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

@ Pandapool

Have you seen the Gary Larson cartoon where the natives shout “Anthropologists!” and start hiding the TV and video recorder?

I still think it would be an interesting topic though, even moreso with the stuff you’ve researched.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
9 years ago

@Alan

The 60-year-old businessman believes that the matrilineal system has been “totally detrimental” to Khasi men. “It puts no responsibility on their shoulders so they tend to take life easy and they go into drugs and alcohol and that cuts their life short,” he said. [Here]

Okay, yeah, these are MRAs alright. And the SRT Facebook has the quote,”To uplift one’s race.”

So…like…yeah…

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
9 years ago

Does “matrilineal” mean something different from the common vernacular definition in this context? o.O

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

Oh, this *so* cries out for an article.

Jessi
Jessi
9 years ago

Every time they respond to civil criticism it’s all fat jokes, fart jokes and rape jokes, just shock razzle dazzle. Do they think this helps the credibility of their cause? You’d think if they really cared they wouldn’t lower themselves to such bufoonery.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
9 years ago

Wow, just looked at the NG photoessay, and yeah, holy staged photos Batman. “Here, little girl, put this clearly raw-cut bunch of fruit on your head and we’ll call it a ‘headdress’ as though it were some kind of crafted garment or ornament.” “Lean over and hold these cow hooves to the floor, for exactly no reason whatsoever.”

Gross. It’s like NG has become a parody of itself.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
9 years ago

@PoM

Matriarchy is seen as were women mostly rule while matrilineal means women carry on the family line. In Western countries, most are both patriarchal and patrilineal.

Matriarchal / matrilineal society was the norm in most of S India, tribals and other communities. There were plenty of queens, rich, independent devdasis, business women, etc. everywhere in Indian (Hindu and Muslim) history. Female inheritance was banned by the British as in their society only a man could inherit or even own anything, as seen in Jane Austen’s novels where 5 daughters could not inherit their family home but a distant male cousin could. Recollect Jhansi! UK brought laws where a woman had to take her father’s/ husband’s name and she and any kids legally became his property. After divorce, the woman lost everything.These British inheritance laws created an urgent need for male heirs, seen even today as girls earlier could not inherit or even keep their original family names.

Next UK’s tax laws created a need for a cash dowry (and not non monetary gifts). This dowry money, from what used to be originally a cashless transaction, was used to pay UK’s taxes to maintain the groom’s family farm, etc. Young men joined their army, essentially to earn money, once their farms were taken by the British. (Ref: Dowry Murders by Dr Oldenburg).

Stree dhan, originally a woman’s property to do with as she wished even after marriage, was over.The Rig Veda clearly states boys and girls are to inherit equally and Islam too has certain financial safeguards for women. Bharati_shahida

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Olivia_Munn.gif

Is this true?

Also, is David’s email still the Gmail thing because I can’t find it on site (likely because I over look things all the time).

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

@ POM

Can’t possibly imagine why that might be.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/nov/14/how-fox-ate-national-geographic

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

@ pandapool

Pretty much. My land law tutor at law school was a massive Jane Austen fan. She explained that the books were really a subtle commentary on the state of the law at the time and a way of calling for reform.

Eventually they lead to this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Married_Women%27s_Property_Act_1882

We did of course export our law to India.

There is one aspect of that that I like though. Here’s the relevant quote from the guy we put in charge:

“You say it is your custom to burn widows. Well we too have a custom, we hang men who murder women. So you build your bonfires and we’ll build our gallows. Then we can both abide by our customs.”

ETA: Making sutee (the burning alive of widows) illegal was one bits of colonialism I sort of approve of.

Also, our land law tutor was great. Se used to put gold star stickers on our essays if we did well. That’s a surprisingly motivating incentive.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
9 years ago

@Alan

Did they actually burn their widows though.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

Fraid so. It was by no means universal, but there were still over 500 cases a year when we banned it.

(The ban was actually challenged in the English courts by some disgruntled husbands but the Privy Council upheld it)

ETA

It was actually legalised again (albeit quite rare) after independence, but after an outcry over a particular case it was outlawed again in 1987.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sati_(Prevention)_Act,_1987

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
9 years ago

@Alan

Fraid so. It was by no means universal, but there were still over 500 cases a year when we banned it.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/skeptical.gif

I am still incredibly skeptical about this.

EDIT: RE ETA

Okay, not so skeptical now but still pretty skeptical.

Josh
Josh
9 years ago

@ Pandapool

It’s not that hard to believe. Vikings often had their slaves killed so they could be set on fire with their other belongings, and Pharoahs often had their slaves and animals entombed with them.

EDIT: Actually, wait, I think I’m confusing the Viking one with something else

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

It does seem hard to believe (or maybe not, it’s not like treating women as chattels of husbands is limited to pre colonial India) but unfortunately true.

One of the major campaigners against it was William Wilberforce, the chap famous for his campaign to abolish slavery.

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