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Dean Esmay, Matt Forney Trade Rape-related Accusations in Internet Douchebag Grudge Match

And in this corner, Matt Forney!
And in this corner, Matt Forney!

Two of the internet’s most terrible people are engaged in a bitter grudge match that, one can only hope, leads to the utter defeat and humiliation of both of them.

In one corner, we have the excitable Dean Esmay, the former A Voice for Men Number Two who has become a formidable Twitter activist, if by “formidable” you mean “a slanderous, slur-spewing, own-goaling nitwit who really, really needs to think about switching to decaffeinated coffee and possibly getting off the internet forever because he embarrasses himself with such regularity.”

Checking with my dictionary, I see that this is not actually what “formidable” means.

Anyhoo, you may recall from my last post on Esmay that he has been loudly denouncing what he calls the “rape hysteria” in Cologne in Tweets like this one:

https://twitter.com/deanesmay/status/685029810523996160

In an irony-meter-breaking twist, Esmay has drawn a great deal of flak for this stance not so much from feminists as from an assortment of alt-right racists who want the world to believe the worst about Muslim “rapefugees.”

If you poke around on Twitter you will find Esmay being denounced as a rape apologist by such unsavory characters as Matt Forney and Roosh Valizadeh, who are, as readers of this blog know, not only repugnant misogynistic PUAs and far-right racists but also rather enthusiastic rape apologists themselves.

In a blog post, Forney expanded on the accusations and asked “Why Did Dean Esmay Call the Cologne Rape Victims ‘Liars?'”

Esmay has responded to these not-really-that-far-off accusations by screaming bloody murder and making a bunch of accusations of his own. After accusing Forney and Roosh of vile slander for suggesting that he thought that each and every one of the reports of sexual assault in Cologne were false, he went on to accuse Forney and Roosh themselves of rape.

https://twitter.com/deanesmay/status/687417655272292353

Esmay seems far more concerned about the alleged “quote-mined lies” being spread about himself than he does about the possible victims of Forney’s and Roosh’s alleged rapes.

Esmay’s blog post on the subject is more solipsistic still:

Confessed rapist Matt Forney has recently lied in public and, using Futrellian quote-mining, made it look as if I said women in Cologne lied about being raped. He knows this isn’t true, as does his cult leader RooshV, the king of the PUA rapetards and creator of the bizarre “NeoMasculinity” secular religion. Yet despite knowing the truth, and having had ample opportunity to retract his story, he and his creepy rapetard cult members keep saying it.

I’m not quie sure why Esmay thinks he’s going to convince anyone he’s not a rape apologist by calling his accusers “rapetards” — a nasty and thankfully not too widely known little portmanteau slur that AVFMers and former AVFMers like Esmay have generally applied to feminists fighting rape.

You know, I can only think of one reason to continually make a false allegation like that: Guilty men like to virtue signal by white knighting. So it appears that Matt Forney and RooshV are trying to recover some respectability by attacking innocent men. Why else with their disgusting lies about what I said on Cologne?

Now, we’ve all seen the evidence in Roosh’s own writing that has suggested to many observers that he’s a rapist. But what evidence is there against Forney?

Esmay points to a blog post of Forney’s with the appalling title “Why Girls Rarely Mean No When They Say No.” The post, which an apparently embarrassed Forney removed from his site some months ago, is as rapey as the title suggests. In it, Forney argues that “No Means Yes/Maybe/Take Me, You Sexy Beast!” and explains that

When a girl says “no” to sex or a particular sexual act, she rarely if ever means it wholeheartedly. While girls have sexual boundaries, theirs are not nearly as strong or well-defined as yours. With the right mix of persuasion, persistence, and audaciousness, you can get a girl to do just about anything you want. I know, because I’ve done it.

He follows this little confession with a story about how he once sort-of, kind-of forced sex on a “fuckbuddy” of his even though she “was in no mood to fuck.” She explicitly told him no; he removed her clothes and had sex with her anyway. “After about ten minutes,” he writes, “she started yelping like she was having her fingernails ripped out with a pair of pliers.” He kept going, nonetheless.

The twist ending? She didn’t actually charge him with rape.

Did she yell at me? Run off to the phone to call 911? Complain about how I’d ignored her wishes and fucked her anyway even though she didn’t want me to?

No: she hugged me and told me that I was “the only man on Earth who didn’t make [her] want to throw up.”

Make of that what you will.

Forney, in a blog post defending himself against Esmay’s accusations, describes this post as

a blog post I wrote a while ago and deleted, both because it was poorly-written and in poor taste (even for me), a post that has nothing to do with rape. 

Esmay then brings up some other rape allegations that have been made against Forney by blogger Rachel Haywire. Haywire hasn’t accused Forney of raping her, instead claiming that Forney raped a female friend of his; according to one anonymous tipster Esmay quotes in his blog post, the boyfriend of the woman in question walked in on Forney raping her as she lay passed-out on the floor. According to the source, she didn’t remember any of it.

Forney’s defense against these accusations is similar to the one he used in his blog post — noting that the alleged victim isn’t the one making the accusations and that she’s still a friend of his. On Twitter, he’s posted photos of the two of them together, smiling. Make of that what you will.

Could the grudge match between Esmay and Forney get any uglier? I think it could, and probably will.

 

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Paradoxical Intention
8 years ago

[Announcer voice] In this corner, wearing the white trunks, we have “Racism”, as represented by Matt Forney!

And its opponent, in the opposite corner wearing red trunks, we have “Rape Denial”, as represented by Dean Esmay!

LET’S GET READY TO RUUUUUUUUMMMMMBBBBLLLLEEEEE!

comment image

Dr. NicolaLuna
Dr. NicolaLuna
8 years ago

I did wonder how the manosphere would react to to Cologne attacks. On one hand, many of them are white supremacists but on the other hand they instantly read the word “rape” as “false rape accusation” so it’s probably been difficult for them to figure out whether they hate women most or black men most.

Moocow
Moocow
8 years ago

Ohhhhh I just love seeing terrible people act shitty towards each other and completely undermine everything they stand for.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x245/tobeuss/PopcornGiantBag.jpg

So the dude who routinely preaches rape apologia is now saying “i think Roosh is actually a rapist”.

I hope he truly doesn’t realize how much of a hypocrite this makes him.

Terrabeau
Terrabeau
8 years ago

Is it wrong of me to rub my hands together like a supervillain and going “mwahaha” while watching this? Because I feel like that is the only proper response to this beautiful, beautiful clusterfuck.

Moocow
Moocow
8 years ago

Oh my god! And in the Matt Forney article, Karen Straughan is there to defend the poor Dean with a massive teal dear!! (also, I love how they have to describe the practice of ‘quoting what you said’ as ‘david futrelle style quote mining’, nice cognitive dissonance)

https://archive.is/hKYov

I’m dying right now, here are some highlights:

Dean’s statements on Twitter originated before the reports were confirmed. His biggest sin was asserting it was rape hysteria, rather than raising the possibility that it might be (something difficult to do in 140 characters or less).

Moreover, what do you think fundamentalist Imams are telling their followers about you guys (red pill western men, PUAs and the like, and westerners in general)? That you rape and sexually degrade women? You think?

You don’t think it’s fair that people believe you’re rape-promoting, rape-enabling rapists with no real evidence, and yet when Dean made his initial statements (which you yourselves would likely make to defend yourselves or your friends if you felt you were being falsely maligned), there was no hard evidence.

Just people saying stuff. Suff like what feminists and white knights and manginas and cucks say about you guys all the time.

Take a drink for every “please stop, guys, you’re acting like feminists!!” threat.

Not only that, why the FUCK is no one here talking about the many German men who were reportedly beaten, stomped and hospitalized by these exact same people?
Is it because mentioning that doesn’t get you adequate “threat narrative traction”?

You men here are playing into the exact same tropes feminism and the mainstream use to demonize you, and you don’t even see it.
You were white knighting before there was even probable cause to do so. And you’re not even self-aware enough to see it. So much for “brotherhood among men”.

Saving the best for last, this part is a direct reply to the guy who insulted Dean (and caused her to write that teal deer in the first place):

Also, weren’t you once going by the name of Ferdinand Bardamu? You know, the guy whose “The Necessity of Domestic Violence” article I was asked, years ago, to read and comment on, something for which I am STILL answering for in the mainstream because I didn’t take the obvious, callous and easy opportunity to say, “Bardamu is an obvious misogynist who loves abusing women! OMG, he called women no better than chimpanzees! Clearly he hates women, full stop.”

No. Instead, I read your article charitably and picked out some relevant parts that were actually reasonable and accurate and commented on them, and now I’m a “domestic abuse apologist” according to every feminist everywhere. For giving you the fucking benefit of the doubt.

Goddamn it.

http://i.imgur.com/gGdPGwt.jpg

@Terrabeau

Not at all! In fact Pandapool has an excellent Malificent gif to go along with that exact sentiment.

Judas Peckerwood
8 years ago

When will the scumbag community stand up and actually do something about this kind of scumbag-on-scumbag (verbal) violence?!!!

Paradoxical Intention
8 years ago

@Moocow:

‘Scuse you.
comment image

Sorry, but Maleficent is my life goal, so I had to interject there.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
8 years ago

@ Paradoxy

To go semi off topic for a moment, I know you love wrestling. Just wondering if you’re familiar with British wrestling of the 70s? Was *hugely* popular for some reason, despite making pantomime look like Brechtian Theatre.

You may find it amusing. Check put the star names of the day like Big Daddy and Giant Haystacks, or if you enjoy having someone to boo, Mick McManus.

suffrajitsu
suffrajitsu
8 years ago

Confessed rapists Roosh V and his friend Forney, also a confessed rapist

In addition to rape and being a decent human being, avoiding redundancy is something that Esmay, who does not understand avoiding redundancy, does not understand.

User name subject to change
User name subject to change
8 years ago

What parts about taking off someone’s clothes and having sex with them after they have said no isn’t rape? Barf. What a gross human being. Try being less repulsive maybe you will find a woman wiling to have sex with you. I recommend a lobotomy as your first step.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
8 years ago

Is it wrong of me to rub my hands together like a supervillain and going “mwahaha” while watching this? Because I feel like that is the only proper response to this beautiful, beautiful clusterfuck.

Not at all! In fact Pandapool has an excellent Malificent gif to go along with that exact sentiment.

You’re right,

Sorry, but Maleficent is my life goal, so I had to interject there.

That is good, but also:

http://www.gifwave.com/media/390458_cartoons-comics-disney-sleeping-beauty-maleficent.gif

Bonelady
Bonelady
8 years ago

Pot/Kettle.

Paradoxical Intention
8 years ago

@Pandapool: That’s also good, but I’d argue mine’s better because you can see an actual struggle in the shadows in the background.

Alan Robertshaw | January 15, 2016 at 6:42 pm
@ Paradoxy

To go semi off topic for a moment, I know you love wrestling. Just wondering if you’re familiar with British wrestling of the 70s? Was *hugely* popular for some reason, despite making pantomime look like Brechtian Theatre.

You may find it amusing. Check put the star names of the day like Big Daddy and Giant Haystacks, or if you enjoy having someone to boo, Mick McManus.

I am not (way, way before my time), but thank you for bringing it up! I’ll have to check out out when I have time.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
8 years ago

@Pandapool: That’s also good, but I’d argue mine’s better because you can see an actual struggle in the shadows in the background.

http://33.media.tumblr.com/605bb5be3a071643d8a50a410db6a1a4/tumblr_inline_nmr1k6oPQi1t5wl3j_500.gif

dreemr
dreemr
8 years ago

If we could “like” comments, I’d be sprinkling a while lotta likes around!

Judas Peckerwood
8 years ago

@Alan Robertshaw

Just wondering if you’re familiar with British wrestling of the 70s? Was *hugely* popular for some reason, despite making pantomime look like Brechtian Theatre.

You may find it amusing. Check put the star names of the day like Big Daddy and Giant Haystacks, or if you enjoy having someone to boo, Mick McManus.

How could you neglect to mention the, um, incomparable Adrian Street?

bluecat
bluecat
8 years ago

I belong to a politics discussion forum on Facebook (maybe for not much longer, it can be dispiriting) and for the last 10 days the very worst posts on the feed have been alternating between “Vile women routinely falsely cry rape – should they go to jail for twice as long as rapists?” and “Deport everyone to save our white women from the menace of evil foreign rapists”.

Apparently posted by the same people.

On the plus side, I never thought I’d live to see the far right care about rape victims.

On the minus side – they really don’t.

Paradoxical Intention
8 years ago

In other news: Paradoxy needs to vent a moment.

I just had to block a supposed feminist on twitter because I asked her to not call a misogynist a “nut job” because it had ableist connotations. This was part of a larger conversation about MRAs yelling about “Ad Hom”, so one of them was like “Oh, is it okay when you do it then?” (despite the fact that he tagged me and one other person, and the screencap was of someone else entirely).

I told him “No, it’s not okay, and you should call that shit out when you see it.” Then proceeded to call this user out for ableism.

Apparently me saying “don’t use language that perpetuates not treating me as a full human being” is “playing the victim”. And if I’m “so sensitive, maybe [I] shouldn’t be on twitter.”

http://media.tumblr.com/61b4b723605bc0bd8d28bb6ae835a8aa/tumblr_inline_mnsa0hbuxq1qz4rgp.gif

I fucking hate people. (I also managed to tell her that “If you put your words over the experiences of other people, maybe you shouldn’t be a feminist.”)

Okay, venting over, please continue.

Bina
Bina
8 years ago

“a slanderous, slur-spewing, own-goaling nitwit who really, really needs to think about switching to decaffeinated coffee and possibly getting off the internet forever because he embarrasses himself with such regularity.”

Is self-contradiction a form of own-goaling? Because he’s doing it like wild up there. First he’s babbling about “rape hysteria” (implying that real rape doesn’t exist), and then he’s burbling about “confessed rapists” (implying that real rape does so exist, and that his fellow menzers do an awful lot of it). Well, Deano, which IS it? Inquiring minds, etc. Also, you can’t have it both ways, so pick one and stick with it.

GiJoel
GiJoel
8 years ago

God dammit I’m all out of popcorn

Bina
Bina
8 years ago

Did she yell at me? Run off to the phone to call 911? Complain about how I’d ignored her wishes and fucked her anyway even though she didn’t want me to?

No: she hugged me and told me that I was “the only man on Earth who didn’t make [her] want to throw up.”

COOL STORY, BRO.

Also the part about schtupping her for a full ten minutes…who does he think he’s kidding? Anyone can see that he’s a two-pump chump, tops.

Bina
Bina
8 years ago

Not only that, why the FUCK is no one here talking about the many German men who were reportedly beaten, stomped and hospitalized by these exact same people?
Is it because mentioning that doesn’t get you adequate “threat narrative traction”?

Gee, Karen, if you’re gonna go THAT route, you should also realize that those poor, oppressed, cuckolded German men…were among those doing the gang-groping, assaulting and raping. Yes, that’s right, white men are filthy, drinky, gang-rapey animals too! Who’d of thunk?

orange tango drinker
orange tango drinker
8 years ago

Gee, Karen, if you’re gonna go THAT route, you should also realize that those poor, oppressed, cuckolded German men…were among those doing the gang-groping, assaulting and raping. Yes, that’s right, white men are filthy, drinky, gang-rapey animals too! Who’d of thunk?

how do you know there were any white men involved in these NYE gang groping attacks in Cologne?

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
8 years ago

@OTD

Because 80% of Germany is of German descent, that is, white, while less than 10% of the nation is from any country that’s non-white (Arabic countries, South America, and Africa to be specific). That also includes refugees, I believe.

I could be off though, but, like, it would be impossible for there not to be white men involved.

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