#alanrickman pic.twitter.com/4WXwnoUtM7
— Emma Watson (@EmmaWatson) January 14, 2016
Earlier today, as you no doubt have heard, legendary British actor Alan Rickman passed away, at age 69, from cancer. Actress and activist Emma Watson, who had worked with Rickman on numerous Harry Potter films over the years, paid tribute to a man she had considered a friend, writing on Facebook that she felt
lucky to have worked and spent time with such a special man and actor. I’ll really miss our conversations. RIP Alan. We love you.
Watson followed up her tribute by posting a number of quotes from Rickman on Twitter, including the one above.
And that was all it took to rouse the vast internet antifeminist troll army, who took to Twitter to attack Watson for supposedly “exploiting” Rickman’s death to push her evil man-hating agenda. They called her a bitch, a feminazi, a whore, a tw*t, and of course an SJW; they dropped the c-word so many times I fear it might be permanently broken.
Never mind that the “agenda” she was supposedly pushing was in fact Rickman’s agenda too. She didn’t make up the quote; they were his actual words, from an interview he gave to Australian chat show One Plus One. Watson was remembering Rickman as the feminist he was proud to be.
Perhaps the most offensive Tweet of the day came from the unlovely and untalented “journalist” Milo Yiannopoulos of Breitbart. Several days ago, you may recall, Milo attempted to use David Bowie’s death as a way to get some cheap publicity for himself; he rather outdid himself in this department today with this insensate Tweet:
I told you feminism was cancer pic.twitter.com/syKFBkF3cG
— Milo Yiannopoulos (@Nero) January 14, 2016
Congratulations, Milo; you’ve won today’s Worst Person on the Internet award.
Delete your account.
It seems. It also seems that we read a different original post by Jo, because all I got from that is “we should be able to use words like adults when critically or academically discussing their usage instead of tip-toeing around them like a hardcore Harry Potter fan trying to talk about Voldemort.” It’s not much different than what Sam L. Jackson tried to argue in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYYBJ8XRdh4
I don’t entirely agree with Jo’s argument because SFW words are appropriate for titles. However, whether Jo contributed or not, two pages of arguments about it? Was that really necessary? Even if Jo was a troll, why contribute to derailing the thread?
On the off chance that Jo is a troll, I applaud you for your devious cunning. Not only have you managed to derail the thread, you’ve also goaded the regulars into heaving the thread off a cliff whereupon it was irreparably destroyed. Kudos.
People who only turn up to tell us how mean and awful we are and how were why you never comment: Good. Fuck all the way off. You are not helping. Jo is a condesending douchewaffle derailing a thread about a grieving woman being called a harsh abusive gendered slur for remembering her dead friend and mentor. If you pop your monocle over that being called out, you are not someone I want to spend time reading and discussing misogyny with. Read the title of the page. We mock misogyny. There are rules. Jo is being misogynist and breaking the rules. You want to console them? Great. Go be besties. I bet you won’t. I bet you turn up the next time an asshole isn’t wrapped in warm blankets and coddled for telling us how ignorant and not good at feminism we are. I bet you do it over and over again and never once add anything of substance to these posts.
I’m not wasting time responding to people whose claims about my “entire argument” reveal that they have not read what I have argued.
Newt
Your own link says it happened. If I’d said there had been a blanket ban imposed you’d have a point. But I didn’t. A couple of liberal fools caused a ridiculous fuss by failing to engage their brain cells.
Ashara
“Ye daft wee c***” is a very common expression north of the border and thus also south of it given the freedom of movement we all enjoy. Baddiel is exactly right. Fanny is mild, twat harder (but actually considered far more offensive than c*** in some parts of the north) and c*** has the consonants to really bite. For some reason, thought-free feminists in the UK never bother to object to the others, they’ve just picked up an Americanism and applied it to an entirely different context.
AsAbove
It’s a cultural thing. I see US feminists address female groups as “ladies” all the time, and it makes me cringe but I get it, it’s different there. In the UK, it is considered benevolent sexism unless the context is clearly otherwise. It’s chivalry, pedestals, opening doors and all that ugly shit. Divided by a common language, nuances can be very different for apparently identical words.
NParker
I have little patience with content-free insults. If there’s an actual argument which addresses my words instead of a straw man, you can call me a c*** all day long and I’ll address your points.
Edit: thank you marshmallow. My point precisely.
And you are magically not derailing Marshmallow? We’re discussing your outrage now. You could just talk about Rickman and ignore us or go read something else.
But no. You need this to be about how you are doing it right and we aren’t and you are such a civil saint of rationality that you have wisdom to hand down to us all.
On a site that does not exist to discuss if we are xenophobic for not wanting to be called cunts.
Truly.
Lea…
That … has nothing to do with what I said, nor am I trying to console Jo, or even care about his/her feelings…
But you’re absolutely right that I don’t like these types of “discussions,” and considering that they happen so goddamn often here, I will resume not posting. Have a nice day.
Jo,
Go away, buttnugget.
And just to clarify, I don’t object to the censoring of the title. It just seems weird to make it all about the c-word when it is misogynistic abuse regardless and much of the abuse did not use the c-word. If I affectionately called her a daft wee c*** would it be the same crime (assuming the affectionate context was clear to her too)?
I didn’t even know that Alan was a feminist. After my death I would be happy if someone mentioned things that were important to me as part of their tribute to me.
Wouldn’t these MRA wankers want people to know how tirelessly they worked during their lives to inform all and sundry how loathsome and useless women are? Wouldn’t they feel miffed if no one acknowledged this magnificent contribution?!
Seeing as the troll is getting more confused and confusing with each post, I’m late to the party, and as a non-native speaker not really qualified to comment on connotations (except, well, agreeing with the point many made that using a female body part as a denigrating slur is inherently sexist, context be damned), I just want to expand on Tyra Lith’s point about the German language.Not just in Austria, but most German dialects have a vast, original, creative and beautiful array of swearwords, most of which are perfectly able to express all kinds of feelings without using genitalia (although there are some misogynistic examples, like “hinterfotzig”, meaning devious. “Fotze” is German for “cunt”).
Swabian, for example:
Grasdackel (literally “grass dachshund”, meaning idiot or asshole in a very strong sense)
Schafseggel (lit. “sheep sack”, although “seggel” is basically intranslatable, also idiot)
Am Depp sei Soggehalter (lit.: “the guy who holds the socks of the idiot”)
Arschnahenger (“hanging his own ass”, i.e. a lazy person)
Bananabiager (a guy who is so stupid that he tries to bend bananas)
this list goes on indefinitely.
Bina, by the way, has proven this point time and again in the comment section by creatively insulting people in German.
@Ashara Payne
Yes most Americans do use the word vagina to mean vulva as well as the vaginal canal, especially colloquially. You’ll even find some people down south where we have poor sex ed if any that don’t know that there is officially a difference.
And yet lots of thoughtful feminists in the UK have objected to “fanny” and “twat” with exactly the same passion as they have objected to “cunt”.
So what exactly is the point of this non-sequitor?
If that wasn’t a backlash against me and I’ve misinterpreted, ignore this- if not:
Jo, I was actually defending you. I wasn’t insulting you, and you know it. I don’t want to call you the c-word- I’m British, and I’ve seen it used in friendly context over here, and I think you have a good point somewhere but I still hate the word and will not use it.
I have little patience with people who, when I give them the benefit of the doubt then proceed to insult me. Your own comment is a content-free insult by your logic- but its okay when you do it apparently.
Being dogpiled does not mean you can carry on whinging and whining. Don’t respond with things that are way worse than that which you respond. You did receive unnecessary backlash, and I am disappointed with that, but that is fast becoming untrue. Kindly leave, I don’t believe you are welcome here any more.
Why lash out at someone who was only trying to help? It really is your way or the highway, isn’t it?
@ashara most folks I encounter in the UK use “vagina” to mean “vulva”, too. Pretty much the reason why it’s “vajazzle” not “vujazzle”, I’d guess.
Also yes, German insults ftw. I’ll find some y’all haven’t thought of later and post them.
@Alan Robertshaw, I think that classification of rude but friendly applies to lots of places, like Newcastle for sure. Maybe in Glasgow we are just…ruder. But yeah, broadly speaking we’re a foul-mouthed friendly place.
Buttnugget is quite good, but too long to work in many contexts that require bite.
It is her, how is that not freaking obvious? Jo is the female spelling of Joe and you could always ask David if my email addy offers any more clues.
But feel free to draw whatever conclusions you like because there is little point saying anything at all when the responses will be “la la la troll”. Obviously a super sneaky troll who posts up a link to men admitting that they commit more rapes than feminists usually claim in case David finds it useful ammunition (as he would have been the only person who ever saw it) and obviously creates a whole new addy to disguise the penis thing.
I know you people have had a horrible time with trolls, I’ve read a lot of the site over the past few weeks, but really, this is ludicrous. And the reaction to marshmallow is beyond silly. “You’re only saying sensible things to make us look bad. Waaaah”. Wut?
Back to the OT, I’m so glad to know that Alan Rickman was as lovely as he seemed. After a whole series of disappointing revelations about talented men whose work I’d admired, this is something of a relief.
And that pointless trolls should use her grief at Alan Rickman’s death as an excuse to harass Emma Watson is doubly despicable.
NParker – no it was not aimed at you. You made a thoughtful post, hence not content-free and not insulting (although it wouldn’t have mattered if it was). There is a wood, see the trees.
@ Kat
‘Foul mouthed friendly place’
Uh… okay…
(Joking! I am well aware that Glasgow people are lovely.)
Here in Warwickshire we are, I believe (and kind of hope) polite but friendly. I certainly am! (usually…)
FWIW, here’s my troll patrol report:
My trolldar went on fire the moment Jo got a disagreeng response and went all
“Any disagreement here is treated as trolling MRA wanking!”
and
“If you don’t agree with me you’re not reading, you don’t like thinking and you’re all bad feminsits*”
The second was repeated, once and again, so I can’t believe anyone in good faith can claim Jo was not being passive-aggressive at the very least, and openly aggressive at worst (you know, after the 3rd time they went “you don’t like to think! Why do I even bother!”).
A few humble opinions:
I don’t think it’s dogpiling if the original person continues to engage with the answers.
It’s also not dogpiling if the person in question keeps throwing passive-aggressive or openly aggressive stuff at us, David or feminism in general.
Anyway, yeah, whoever can’t see why derailing a post about a woman mourning a friend and being attacked by misogynist is at least a bit off, probably is not in the best blog to fit their needs for information and/or debate.
This whole things reminds me A LOT about Had To Be Said. Remember them?
*typo intended
PS: From the goddamned rules:
We may agree to disagre in many, many ways, but these are the rules, and they are extremely clear about situations like the one that’s happening right now.
It’s almost like it happened so often we have special riles for it! Ah-mazing!
Let’s all take a moment to think about it, shall we?
These deaths so close together have made me feel how short our time is. Like seriously panicky feeling. I mean at least Alan Rickman and David Bowie can look back at their lives and say they accomplished much. And if she died tomorrow, I think so would Emma Watson.
It’s one of the things that really bug me about the anti-feminist trolls. So often they come out screaming at people who actually do awesome things with their lives. Especially considering how pathetic their own “contributions” to the world are.
@Luzbelitx, thank you for providing that quote. I’d forgotten that Dave had rules in place specifically for this situation.
With that in mind, I’m going to leave this thread alone until Jo either gets bored or banned.
Edit: Except to quickly add that, as I’ve said before, while some people are alienated from these threads because there are too many call-outs (like marshmallow above) I’m often disinclined to read threads because there’s stuff in there that hasn’t been called out, and I don’t have the energy to do it myself. This site can’t be perfect for everyone.
I’ve always felt that “lady” is a horribly condescending word, inseparable from its misogynist connotations, just dripping with benevolent sexism and constitutes a microaggression.
But that might be because if I hear it I’m highly likely to be already puking internally for being misgendered, so I’m predisposed to viewing everything in that context in the worst possible light. It’s still icky if I’m not among the people being referred to.
It’s a lot less bad if the speaker is a woman.
Doesn’t make it right, but I’m pretty sure reacting to a feeling of being dogpiled with aggression is quite a normal human response really.
Well, a little similarly, I found it rather insensitive when some here started discussing rather dark things about Bowie only two days after he died, (I thought it could have waited a little longer) but I didn’t object. I’m at the right blog for my sensitivities.
Lawrence said it best:
“I’m over trying to find the ‘adorable’ way to state my opinion and still be likable, Fuck that.”
Rudeness does not bother me, misrepresenting an argument so that you can dismiss it, or just chucking out nothing but insults really, really does. Why are your emotional reactions important enough to post about but your reasoning not important enough to explain?
And how in hell is marshmallow copping flak for making one of the very few content-included posts in this weird little spat?