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"ethics" #gamergate antifeminism evil SJWs harassment misogyny the c-word

Antifeminist twits use Alan Rickman’s death as an excuse to call Emma Watson the c-word

Earlier today, as you no doubt have heard, legendary British actor Alan Rickman passed away, at age 69, from cancer. Actress and activist Emma Watson, who had worked with Rickman on numerous Harry Potter films over the years, paid tribute to a man she had considered a friend, writing on Facebook that she felt

lucky to have worked and spent time with such a special man and actor. I’ll really miss our conversations. RIP Alan. We love you.

Watson followed up her tribute by posting a number of quotes from Rickman on Twitter, including the one above.

And that was all it took to rouse the vast internet antifeminist troll army, who took to Twitter to attack Watson for supposedly “exploiting” Rickman’s death to push her evil man-hating agenda. They called her a bitch, a feminazi, a whore, a tw*t, and of course an SJW; they dropped the c-word so many times I fear it might be permanently broken.

Never mind that the “agenda” she was supposedly pushing was in fact Rickman’s agenda too. She didn’t make up the quote; they were his actual words, from an interview he gave to Australian chat show One Plus One. Watson was remembering Rickman as the feminist he was proud to be.

Perhaps the most offensive Tweet of the day came from the unlovely and untalented “journalist” Milo Yiannopoulos of Breitbart. Several days ago, you may recall, Milo attempted to use David Bowie’s death as a way to get some cheap publicity for himself; he rather outdid himself in this department today with this insensate Tweet:

Congratulations, Milo; you’ve won today’s Worst Person on the Internet award.

Delete your account.

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Jo
Jo
8 years ago

Weirdwoodtreehugger,

I’ve explained at length why it is absurd to consider it a sexist term when it is culturally used in a gender neutral way. I was just as interested in getting at why “pussy” is not considered offensive enough to censor when it is inherently misogynistic in both use and origin (as with “gay” but not as with the c-word) but no one seems to want to address that point.

There are lots of people who can pick up on an idea and run with it but the reasons behind the objection matter. An example that always makes me laugh is that valid objections to the use of “female/s” as a noun has led to people using the word “woman” as an adjective. It’s a rule-based, thought-free approach which makes us look silly, IMO.

Jo
Jo
8 years ago

David,

Completely agree with all of that and not arguing with it. It’s not particularly important and would only alter the framing of the story anyway.

I am much more interested in why “pussy” raises fewer hackles despite being infinitely worse in the UK regardless of context, and at least as bad in the US (IMO). Terms which are used to try and humiliate men put women and children in danger because men who feel emasculated do not, by definition, take it out on those more powerful than they are.

This stuff matters, even if I am challenging (some) people who think they have this all figured out and thus are too offended to listen.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
8 years ago

I am much more interested in why “pussy” raises fewer hackles despite being infinitely worse in the UK regardless of context, and at least as bad in the US (IMO).

This stuff matters, even if I am challenging (some) people who think they have this all figured out and thus are too offended to listen.

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Jo
Jo
8 years ago

Wow. Weirdwoodtreehugger

I have a circadian rhythm disorder which puts me on US time a lot and has pretty much destroyed my life. Thank you so much for bringing disability discrimination into your desperate attempts to attack me instead of address the points I am making.

Scratch a hippy.

weirwoodtreehugger
8 years ago

I was just as interested in getting at why “pussy” is not considered offensive enough to censor when it is inherently misogynistic in both use and origin (as with “gay” but not as with the c-word) but no one seems to want to address that point.

Seems legit!

Oh wait.

I censor the word, at least in post titles, to make the site more SFW, especially in the US and everywhere else where the word is highly offensive.

It has been addressed.

We can also scroll up and read your first post, you know.
Here’s an excerpt.

But I use the c-word a lot and I get really, really tired of explaining why it is not sexist here whereas, for example, the ostensibly innnocuous “pussy” is way beyond the pale because it is either used to equate a woman with her genitals or humiliate a man by comparing him to a woman (the horror!).

I have censored my language so that you don’t have to, but reluctantly and in deference to your preferences.

You didn’t ask why it was censored in the title. You martyred yourself over how generous and wonderful you are for not using the word cunt. Despite the fact that this word is not one of the words that automatically puts your posts into moderation. You didn’t even have to censor the word!

katz
8 years ago

But I use the c-word a lot and I get really, really tired of explaining why it is not sexist

I’m sorry your constant use of a word people find offensive makes your life so difficult. But hey, you wouldn’t want to compromise your beliefs by just not using that word on this site.

Why is this the hill so many people choose to die on?? For shit’s sake, if someone told me that “cheeseburger” was a really offensive word where they were from, I just wouldn’t say cheeseburger around them. I wouldn’t turn it into my life’s mission to constantly harangue them about how it’s a totally harmless word where I come from.

Jo
Jo
8 years ago

Wriggle away. You’ve made some despicable accusations which appear to be about your ego and little else.

My first post on this site, just in case anyone is tempted to think your paranoia might be justified: https://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/2010/11/11/mens-rights-myth-false-rape-accusations/comment-page-2/#comment-639471

Engage brain before chucking out this nonsense. Language matters and understanding context is critical to communication. I and most UK feminists find the word “lady” ridiculously offensive but we don’t kick up a big fuss on US blogs because the benevolently sexist connotations are absent from US culture.

I realise you are way less exposed to our culture than we are to yours, but making so much random shit up in the space of 5 minutes is ridiculous.

guest
guest
8 years ago

Another English person wondering wth Jo is talking about. And why. (And yes WWTH it’s 6:45 here, and I have to get up and get ready for work!)

Jo
Jo
8 years ago

All British feminists are the same. Not indivduals, one amorphous lump of humanity. Wow.

Still no attempt to engage with any substantive points. Thanks for that. Well done.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
8 years ago

Engage brain before chucking out this nonsense. Language matters and understanding context is critical to communication. I and most UK feminists find the word “lady” ridiculously offensive but we don’t kick up a big fuss on US blogs because the benevolently sexist connotations are absent from US culture.

You’re arguing about saying the word “cunt” isn’t sexist because of UK shit and we should accept that because the world isn’t US centric while telling us that “lady” is offensive because of UK shit and accept that because the world isn’t US centric.

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For real though.

katz
8 years ago

You’ve made some despicable accusations which appear to be about your ego and little else.

Immediately followed by

All British feminists are the same. Not indivduals, one amorphous lump of humanity. Wow.

I’m getting in on Pandapool’s thing.

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weirwoodtreehugger
8 years ago

This stuff matters, even if I am challenging (some) people who think they have this all figured out and thus are too offended to listen.

Oh good. We’ve gotten to the portion in the troll cycle where we’re told we can’t handle your totally original truth bombs. Because you’re the first person to ever come in here and claim it’s okay for women to be called cunts because it’s a common insult elsewhere.

Oh wait, no. Orange Tango Drinker was just here a couple of weeks ago defending an MRA for making misogynist memes containing the word cunt because he’s an Australian. So it’s totally okay!

Wow. Weirdwoodtreehugger

I have a circadian rhythm disorder which puts me on US time a lot and has pretty much destroyed my life. Thank you so much for bringing disability discrimination into your desperate attempts to attack me instead of address the points I am making.

Scratch a hippy.

You already nailed yourself to the cross over the horrible oppression of not calling people cunts on US based websites. Now you’re doing it again?

I’m not discriminating against anyone for disabilities. I was expressing skepticism because your posts are quite trollish. You see, sometimes on the internet, people say things about themselves that aren’t true. So when someone I don’t recognize starts making a case for why they should be allowed to call people a word that’s considered slur, I’m not in the habit of giving them too much benefit of the doubt. It doesn’t matter that much if you are who you say you are though. You’re still a jerk barging in here and complaining about hard it’s making your life is because you have to stop yourself from using cunt as an insult. Also, I did actually address your points several times.

I’d also like to add that I have seasonal affective disorder and live in a northern area. The reason I’m posting and wide awake is because my body does not know what time it is in the winter and I’m tired all day and frequently sleepless at night this time of year. I’m not out to discriminate against people who can’t sleep. Again, you’re giving off big old whiffs of troll and it’s kind of hard to take you seriously. We’ve had many trolls here and they frequently are dishonest about various aspects of your lives. I wouldn’t question any of our British regulars/semi-regulars for posting at this hour because I know they’re here in good faith. It’s almost like feminist websites are trolled a lot and we’re a little bit sensitive when people we don’t know act like they might be here in bad faith!

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
8 years ago

@katz

German expressionism FTW!

Jo
Jo
8 years ago

Where have I said that it’s not a misogynistic term in the US?

I’m not going to go round and round in circles. You can take my words with as much or as little intellectual honesty as you prefer. That’s the beauty of free speech. But quick resort to insult and accusation of ulterior motives without addressing any substantive points indicates a shallow, tribal mindset rather than one that is interested in getting to the root of these problems and finding useful answers without unnecessarily alienating people.

I’ve actually thought about this stuff and I’m used to this nonsense. For potential allies it is downright alienating.

Think on. Like, you know, put some actual effort in. Feminism is not a lifestyle choice, it’s a matter of life and death. For some of us, at least.

weirwoodtreehugger
8 years ago

Engage brain before chucking out this nonsense. Language matters and understanding context is critical to communication. I and most UK feminists find the word “lady” ridiculously offensive but we don’t kick up a big fuss on US blogs because the benevolently sexist connotations are absent from US culture.

And if I was commenting on a UK blog and someone objected to the word, I would refrain from using it without making a big thing about it. BTW it’s actually not true that the word “lady” doesn’t have any sexist connotations in US culture. I’ve personally always side eyed anyone who says women should “be a lady” or “be ladylike” because those people usually think women should be quiet and decorative. It doesn’t have the same classist connotations here as it does in the UK, I don’t think. But it is sexist.

If you wanted to have a conversation about language and culture, maybe you should have broached the subject respectfully instead of whining about horrible it is that you can’t the word cunt around in US based blog comments sections?

katz
8 years ago

@katz

German expressionism FTW!

GERMAN EXPRESSIONISM!!

https://mlkshk.com/r/PK8T

Edit: Dammit, I picked one of those images that doesn’t embed.

weirwoodtreehugger
8 years ago

Is it weird to quote myself?

I do have to wonder if Jo is a troll posting from North America, looking to pretend to be chased away from feminism because we’re all sooooooo mean!

Because apparently other than the North America thing…

I’ve actually thought about this stuff and I’m used to this nonsense. For potential allies it is downright alienating.

Think on. Like, you know, put some actual effort in. Feminism is not a lifestyle choice, it’s a matter of life and death. For some of us, at least.

I totally called it!

weirwoodtreehugger
8 years ago

I suppose Jo isn’t so much pretending to be chased away from feminism as much as they’re saying we’re going to chase other people away from feminism by not wanting to be called cunts, even by British people. But still, the point stands. Same guilt tripping and tone policing bullshit.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his, she/her pronouns)
8 years ago

I still find it funny that, evidently, “pussy” is MUCH more offensive in the UK while “cunt” is not and is gender neutral even though they both refer to female genitalia in a derogatory sense.

@Jo Why don’t you…just not use either? I’m sorry you’re so unimaginative in your swearing, you can’t think of anything to else say. Paradoxical could teach you a thing or two.

Jo
Jo
8 years ago

Telling someone to be ladylike is very different from addressing a group of women as “ladies”. That tricky context thing again, bummer innit.

I thought my post was pretty polite and could have opened up an interesting discussion about rules-based vs context-based offence-taking, but we’re all different and I can no more judge this objectively than you can.

You’re still insinuating that I am a troll. Not just weak, downright ludicrous if you followed the link to my first post on this site.

Lazy, ego-driven garbage.

loquora
loquora
8 years ago

@Jo

It doesn’t say a lot for your creativity if you can’t come up with something better than ‘cunts’ to call people you want to insult. I’ve made it a fun game to come up with the most creatively cutting gender neutral things to call people. And if you continue down this trolly road you might hear a few of them directed your way.

zoon echon logon
zoon echon logon
8 years ago

weirwoodtreehugger
8 years ago

One more post and then I do have to be off to bed.

In the US, the word “Paki” tends not to be used as a racial slur. People say all kinds of racist things about South Asians, of course. But that particular word tends not to be in the American racial slur lexicon. Somehow, it would never occur to me in a million years to go to a UK based social justice site that has a lot of South Asian readers/commenters and tell them how it’s so tough and unfair that they find the word offensive. Who does that?

Telling someone to be ladylike is very different from addressing a group of women as “ladies”. That tricky context thing again, bummer innit.

Nice goalpost shifting.

This is what you said

I and most UK feminists find the word “lady” ridiculously offensive but we don’t kick up a big fuss on US blogs because the benevolently sexist connotations are absent from US culture.

You said nothing about addressing a group of women as ladies as opposed to telling someone to be ladylike. You keep expecting us to magically intuit your intent. If we fail to psychically know what we meant, we’re just horrible anti-intellectual Americans I guess!

I thought my post was pretty polite

What’s polite about this?

But I use the c-word a lot and I get really, really tired of explaining why it is not sexist here

Poor you. It’s so hard to have to splain to people why they’re wrong to be offended by a slur.

All because David put c-word in the title of the post. So people can safely read it at work. Why do you even care? What is so terrible about that?

Chaltab
Chaltab
8 years ago

Can we stop pretending like Jo is arguing in good faith yet? I’ve been looking forward to it for… well just a few minutes honesty but it feels like days.

Valentine
Valentine
8 years ago

What a shame that the comment section had to be hijacked with an asinie conversation about semantics when we ought to be talking about the Sheriff of Nottingham. I’m British and I find the c word upsetting. It cuts me deep when I get called it. On the other hand I like the word pussy for vagina at least in nice contexts. Cats are nice. Pussy is a gentle word.