It’s Friday again, and that means memes. Today’s batch comes fresh from the A Voice for Men Facebook page. AVFM may be in the middle of a slow-motion collapse, but they’re still doing an amazing job making and/or disseminating almost completely incomprehensible memes.
Take the one up top there, suggesting that if fathers have any issues with the way their “baby’s mama” is raising their baby, the solution isn’t to discuss this with her or — heaven forbid! — get more involved in raising the kid.
No, the only REAL solution is to ruin her Valentine’s Day by taking her to McDonald’s, instead of giving her the lavish romantic dinner she expects.
Because, you know, mothers are far more interested in extracting lavish dinners from their men than they are in, you know, taking care of any kids they might have accidentally popped out along the way.
Why did AVFM post a Valentine’s Day meme more than a month early? Probably for the same reason the site published an anti-Valentines rant from Paul Elam last August: there is no greater misandrist oppression of men than having to buy some chocolate or whatever for some dumb broad if she happens to be one of those women who expects her fella to buy her chocolate or whatever.
I have no comment on this next meme, because I have no idea whatsoever what point it’s trying to make.
I gather from the one below that someone saw Adam Sandler’s fake-gay-marriage comedy I Now Pronounce You Chuck and Larry and thought it offered some incisive social criticism.
I dunno, I’m not sure I have an objection. Why shouldn’t people be able to claim their roommates as domestic partners?
Enjoy the rest of your memeday! And don’t forget, all you fellas out there, Always Be Recording, just in case some random woman decides to do some false accusing.
MRAs and MGTOWs and the like talk endlessly about how all men should be always recording (and then presumably storing all the sound files just in case). I wonder if there is a single MRA or MGTOW who does.
A friend marriage would totally allow for as many romantic/sexual relationships with whoever you want! The only problem with that is that most people eventually find someone they want to commit to and then they want to marry THAT person, so I’ve been wondering if a friend marriage is only optimal with aromantic people. But there are poly people and people who don’t like the idea of a love marriage, so as long as they come into it knowing its limitations, then it’d be fine.
Speaking as someone who is most likely aromantic and doesn’t understand romantic love much, friend marriages make more sense to me. Like, friendships generally have a longer shelf life than romances. You don’t have to worry about maintaining a healthy sex life and keeping the “spark” in a relationship over decades. All you have to do is be respectful and kind and share chores evenly.
Not saying my vision of marriage is superior or whatever, but I’m surprised it’s such a radical idea to some people. 🙂
@Orion:
I’m not sure I completely agree with your choice of words, though the sentiment is great. It’s just… you’re not obligated to be kind and fair. It just means you’re an asshole if you’re not. Likewise, there’s no obligation to think about what you can do; you’re just a better person if you do. Yes, you’re obligated to allow people to discuss; but it’s not that you can’t whine about what they’re saying, it’s just that you’re not entitled to a hearing. You can whine if you want, and everyone else can ignore you if you want. Or possibly mock you, in between cooing over cat pics.
@Rabid Rabbit,
I realize that I’m largely alone on the Left with my belief in objective morality, but it is my position.
Not really. Feminism usually involves a denial that morality is culturally relative. The more amoral faction of New Atheists is closer to a culturally relativist “Left” if you take away the right libertarians.
I suppose I really ought not to have claimed global and inter-generational knowledge of the Left.
The people I hung out with in College virtually all identified as feminists. They did, as you say, virtually all explicitly reject cultural relativism. However, the majority of them did describe themselves as moral relativists.
American undergraduates have lots of interesting ideas. 😛
It’s usually along the lines of “I don’t judge people for XYZ.” But they’re trying to say either that they don’t care about someone’s private sexual practices or they are not inappropriately censorious. Maybe they accept situational ethics. But none of that involves rejecting objective moral values.
Paul Elam, a Real Man isn’t tentative. “What if I told you . . . .” “What would then be your objection?” These are timid, hesitant questions that seek the reader’s approval.
But now that you have tested the waters, you know that none of us object to the notion of heterosexual men marrying each other. Many are downright enthusiastic.
You’re not just talking trash when you mention two heterosexual guys taking the plunge, right? You’ll be first in line, correct?
Follow your dream, Paul Elam! Seize the day! Tie the knot with that special MRA Nice Guy!
When you do, I will consider making a donation to AVFM. And I urge other Mammotheers to do the same: Pledge to consider making a donation to Paul Elam’s organization when he marries a man.
Mammotheers, if you don’t want to take that pledge in public, take it in your hearts.
Moral systems are hard to maintain consistently. “Objective” morality eventually, inevitably, attempts to impose impossible standards on limited human beings, when it does not pull a full Kant and impose logically contradictory demands. “Subjective” morality is just super difficult to parse in the moment. Presuming that the person holding it is not simply claiming it in order to not have to think very hard about their actions, and is actually trying to uphold a real standard, subjective morality is so complex that choosing “the” “moral” course of action on short notice (because that’s how most of our actions are chosen) is all but impossible as well.
I’ve come to the conclusion, personally, that there is an objective morality, but that we should never judge others for not living up to that standard (because objective moral standards are far above the capabilities of mere mortals) and we should never beat ourselves up for not living up to it, either, so long as we are all at least attempting to be good people. We say “intent isn’t magic” and by one perspective that’s true – my intention to not hurt you does not magically negate any hurt I inflict by mistake. But by another perspective intent is everything, because if I truly am trying, and my hurt of you is genuinely a mistake, then I will be sorry to learn that I did it, do what I can to mitigate it, and learn from it and attempt to not do it again.
I think we all recognize this, to some degree, and that’s how many of us live our lives factually, even if we don’t have a structured philosophical reason to do it. We’re all going to fuck up, and as long as we are doing the best we know how, it’s ultimately okay.
As far as the ‘ABR: Always Be Recording’ question raised, does anyone within the MRA/MGTOW/whatever community actually abide by this? I say yes, & offer this as evidence.
A guy over here in Australia met a girl on Tinder, took her backntk his apartment & recorded the entire encounter, ostensibly to indemnify himself against any accusations… however, the transcript became evidence against the bloke in court after she fell to her death from his balcony.
[Link to transcript of recording (with TW!): http://m.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/news/crime-court/warriena-wrights-final-tragic-hours-with-gable-tostee-the-transcript-of-alleged-recordings/story-fnje8bkv-1227053364751%5D
Although the fellow in question was not an MRA, etc. per se, he was a regular to the bodybuilding.com forums, which is virtually the same thing, in my opinion.
Regulars on bodybuilding.com are probably not MRA’s in the sense of wanting to reform stuff like family law and domestic violence laws. But they accept maybe 75-90% of the MRA ideology.
Elliot Rodger was a regular on bodybuilding.com. So yeah.
Let me try to channel one of my relativist friends. She’d say something like,
“The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.” Moral ideas aren’t objective facts that existed before humans did. “Relativism” is the word I use for the idea that morality is something created by humans for human purposes. I would probably agree that moral facts are created by some kind of consensus, but cultural relativism is a stunted, parochial version of what I would endorse. I believe in a “personal relativism” that allows each individual to invent their own morals; in the same way I don’t believe in a “cultural relativism” that allows a few people who happen to live near each other invent their own morals. Morals are created by and applicable to humanity as a whole.
…Whoa. Thanks all. I didn’t expect so much support. Sorry for kind of taking over the thread for a bit. You guys were really helpful.
Hopefully I can make some substantive comments in the future instead of coming in and being sad :).
Dammit, typos. My friend would say she does NOT believe in “personal relativism” or in “cultural relativism.”
I’d call myself a moral relativist, because I do my best to live in a constant awareness of the fact that all my moral principles might be wrong. I’m a pacifist, a feminist, and a liberal – but that might be something that my grandchildren would be horrified by. It could well be that I’m the bad guy.
To me, my own moral relativism therefore means that I should never take irreversible actions, no matter how strictly I believe in them, because I might be wrong.
I’m uncertain as to whether this is the same usage of the term that everyone else uses.
Hello.
Is it legal to soundrecord someone without this person’s consent ? I mean, is it not like photography or videorecording ?
Have a nice day.
Laws about what can be recorded and who recordings can be shared with are extremely complicated and very different between countries, and I believe also between stats in the US.
Audio recordings are frequently treated differently from video recordings. In some cases, taking audio is legal but taking video is not. In other cases, taking video is legal but audio is not.
@Policy of Madness
I came to truly appreciate such phrases as “I’m sorry,” “Are you OK?,” and “That was my fault” when I dated an MRA (before MRAs were proud to identify themselves as such).
This pitiful excuse for a human being would hurt me (step on my foot and so on) accidentally (at least I hope it was accidental) and refuse to apologize because, as he put it, “I didn’t hurt you.”
Of course, what he was doing was grooming me to take more and more abuse. I took it for a while — until I didn’t.
@EJ (the Other One)
But we take irreversible actions all the time.
For example, you might decide to have your wisdom teeth removed. Or have a baby. Or get a haircut. Or be circumcised.
@Hedge-Alchemist
I hope that things are looking up now. All best wishes!