Over on the Ask The Red Pill subreddit, one of the stranger outposts in Reddit’s Red Pill empire, one aspiring alpha has a rather plaintive question about the proper etiquette when one is, er, making love with a woman who hates you.
The obvious answer to this little conundrum is: don’t have sex with people who hate you, or that you hate. Alas, this is not the advice given to young redthrowawaypill.
No, the advice he’s given is a lot more rapey.
A fellow calling himself toolatebutnexttime fondly recalls the lovely times he used to have with his hated first wife. Well, they were lovely for him, in any case.
F**king someone you hate can be really fun. My first wife cheated one me while I was deployed. I grew to hate her, to this day I hate her with every ounce of my being.
When I would come back to the states for vacation, I would pick up the kids from her, go hang out with them, take them back to her house put them to bed and then f**k the hell out of her.
Everything I wanted to do during the marriage but was too beta to just go ahead and do, I did. The fact that I hated her made me not give a shit about if it caused I fight afterwords.
Huh. You’re doing things to her without her consent and that make her angry. That’s not sex any more; it’s rape.
The advice given by Truckyouinthebutt seems almost reasonable by comparison, at least at first.
So hate F**k isn’t f**king someone you hate. Its more of a feeling that you don’t see anything ever happening with this person and all you do is F**k. You don’t date, you don’t text, you don’t talk about the weather, you just F**k. It can be you both hate each others personality but are sexually,attracted to each other and both need a release.
Sort of a friends-with-benefits kind of deal but without the “friends” part. That can actually work if both people are ok with it.
But then Truckyouinthebutt starts sounding rapey as hell too:
I f**ked a girl who was friends with my friends gf but couldn’t stand to hang out with her.
He means that he couldn’t stand to hang out with her, not that the girl couldn’t stand to hang out with her own female friend.
We would all go out for drinks. Us guys would talk, the girls would talk, then at the end of the night we would go after party at my friends place. Him and his,gf would go in her room to F**k and I would keep bitch girl on the couch and F**k there.
Wait, you’d keep her there? How, exactly? This is starting to sound a bit rapey.
No kissing, no sex talk, just whip it out and put it in.
A lot rapey.
You get to pull the hair more, pinch the nipples, slap her ass harder because you,don’t give a F**k what she thinks.
Ok, here’s the thing: when you’re having sex with someone you have to give enough of “a F**k what she thinks” to ensure that she is actually, you know, consenting to sex. Rough sex is fine, if she’s into it too. But sex without consent, well, that isn’t actually sex any more.
Normally if they are hate fucking you they are freaks and totally get off to this so if you do,it right they come back every time.
And if it turns out that, you know, you actually raped her? To Truckyouinthebutt, evidently, it’s no harm, no foul because, hey, he didn’t even like her anyway.
The Ask the Red Pill subreddit is basically the world’s worst advice column.
They really need to just leave women alone. They should stick to blow up dolls which they cannot hurt.
@msexceptiontotherule
I’m going to nitpick slightly. Saying that women/people who do not have a penis need extra equipment in order to be the ‘fucker’ doesn’t push back against kat’s college acquaintance nearly enough, since you’re agreeing that you need to penetrate in order to be the ‘fucker’. Equating fucking with penetration still leaves the verb transitive, something one party does to the other, not a cooperative act as it should be.
@dhag
Happy birthday! I offer you baby red panda brain bleach.
http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2014-05/enhanced/webdr04/27/17/anigif_enhanced-14115-1401225228-35.gif
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Red-Panda-Playing-WIth-Pumpkin.gif
http://i.imgur.com/g4LDJkM.gif
@kupo
Yessss, fake pandas! Thanks. 🙂
Red pandas!!!!
They’ve got to be my favorite non domestic animal. They’re like an adorable mix of cat, raccoon, and fox. Love!
@Alan
And the sheep looks like she has seen this exact same thing play out a few times before…
Why do WHTM subscribers hate MGTOW? MGTOW want nothing but insignificant contact with women – especially the types from WHTM. Shouldn’t WHTM subscribers be more interested in men that actually care about WHTM women?
MGTOW are free from the bondage of slavery through marriage to a woman and to a misandric society that sees men as nothing more than an easily manipulated, easily controllable, easily used and disposable male utility.
MGTOW realize that every effort is being made to ensure that the fulfilling, sovereign life MGTOW live today – a life free of gynocentric, progressive and conservative abuse laden control – is destroyed.
MGTOW know that the aforementioned anti-male gynocentrists are working furiously to ensure that a life like mine – a life free from women’s and white knight’s crucifying, man-hating power – is unattainable for the vast majority of current and future men. WHTM women are the nuclear response to MGTOW.
MGTOW are grateful to have the opportunity to live a life free of the control gynocentrists and their boot licking government and corporate white knights wish to force upon myself and upon most men of the world.
MGTOW are fortunate to have the opportunity to be a MGHOW. WHTM women are slaves to the patriarchy.
Things to teach your sons to watch out for – unless you want them destroyed by a woman or white knight:
Cohabitation Rights Bill – Allows girlfriends the same rights to asset division and alimony married women enjoy – only after X number of months of dating or cohabitation.
Affirmative Consent – College men accused or rape or sexual assault denied an attorney, rights to know the accuser, rights to a trial by jury, rights to defend himself. Major push to have this new college law made a part of criminal law. An accusation of sexual assault will be enough to put men away – regardless of evidence to the contrary. Right now – an accusation alone gets men expelled from college.
Feminist Hate Speech Legislation – Legislation designed to silence criticism of feminism/gynocentrism and make such speech a criminal offense. Active in parts of Canada.
Coercive Control Abuse Legislation – Used to put men in jail for denying their wives or girlfriends female privilege in any way – now law in the UK.
VAWA – Doesn’t matter if the bruise she claims you put there was from something else. You will be sent to jail on her word alone. You will be removed from your home and denied access to your children.
Restraining Orders – Men automatically removed from their homes, their bank accounts frozen, their drivers licensees and passports revoked, all from an unproven accusation.
Debtors Prison – Men put in jail for nonpayment of alimony and/or child support – regardless of health issues, bad economy, psychological problems, etc.
Parental Alienation – The process of waylaying false accusations against men (abuse, molestation, etc) to deny men access to their children and/or custody rights.
Men pay the vast majority (90+ percent) of alimony and child support. Men make up 98% of combat and work related deaths. Men are the vast majority of homeless – but have almost no homeless centers for men. Men’s suicide rate is many more times that of a woman’s.
Teach Your Sons Well – Unless of Course You Hate Them
I firmly believe that red pandas are actually toys. They are too absurdly cute to be real animals that evolved in the wild.
Seriously why are all animals so perfect. 🙁
@ dhag
I know! This was the thing I was wondering about on the other thread. I know there’s the explanation that they look like baby humans but I don’t find babies cute, but animals are.
The only explanation I can think of is its a throwback to when we had fur.
@Alan
Maybe it’s in part because we recognize how sincere and naive they are.
EDIT: Yup I called all animals naive. Deal with it, lizards.
@ dhag
But foxes are cute and they’re famously cunning and clever. Even Steven Fry is just the spiritual successor to Basil Brush.
Thanks for the nice comments! I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who noticed that.
@Penny Psmith – It sucks that you got comments like that. Even in the Grammar Geeks group on LinkedIn (I hang out in exciting Internet places) I’ve noticed that the comments pointing out possible sexism in language rarely get upvotes.
…They did have an interesting discussion about using singular “they” a while back, though. At first it was mostly about “they” being a more convenient way of saying “he/she,” but then someone mentioned agender and gender-nonconforming people, which was generally received positively (more of an attitude of “oh, cool, I didn’t know that” rather than “no, that doesn’t exist because it’s not in my experience”).
@dhag85 – Happy Birthday! Also the squirrel photobomb made me laugh.
So which is it? Are we living in a patriarchy or is this a misandric society? It’s a little hard to have both, you know.
Not insignificant enough it seems.
Oh, another MGTOW troll not MGTOWing hard enoguh? Meh.
Wait, someone said Stephen Fry??
Which reminds me, I need to ‘shop a “Men Going Straight To The Nearest Feminist Blog” logo at some point.
@Tim
Just go your own damn way already.
And yet, here you are Timmy. There you MIGTOWs go sending those mixed signals again. Do you hate us and want to Go Your Own Way, or do you actually want to be here and talk to us?
Either you want to Go Your Own Way, or you don’t. You can’t just stand in the doorway straddling the door frame. You’re letting all the heat out!
Days since someone misunderstood the tagline of the blog: 0
We’re not here to be “interested in men” (though, I know in your little world all women are only interested in what they can do for/to men, it’s just not, y’know, reality.) we’re here to mock misogyny.
As such, I should inform you that men are not the only ones capable of spreading misogyny. We have tags on several prominent FeMRAs, as well as a few well-known women who are anti-feminist.
So, no, we’re not just concerned with only men, Timmy. And no, we still don’t want to fuck you.
Good for you.
Except nothing’s fucking stopping you from “going your own way”.
Literally nothing. There’s no conspiracy to destroy your “free life”, there’s no one out to force you into “slavery” to a woman. You could go Galt any fucking day now, and no one would care.
We actually do want you to go your own fucking way already. The problem is you’re standing in the doorway pontificating to women (who you supposedly want nothing to do with), while we’re just like “Bon Voyage, Timmy! Don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out!”
Seriously. No one cares if you don’t want to get married Timmy. No one cares if you don’t want to date. No one here cares.
I think part of the problem is you want us to care. But sincerely, we really fucking don’t. You want us to beg you not to leave, you want us to promise you everything you want from mid-day blowies, taking care of your “brood”, to fresh sammiches, and we’re just not going to give it to you.
Ah, yes, the government made by the white, cis, rich, heterosexual male is somehow opposing the poor widdle white, cis, heterosexual men by…not being as shitty to women, LGBTQA+ people, and PoC as they used to be.
My heart bleeds for you.
http://45.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbehp2G7YV1qg8gy8o3_r2_250.gif
Wait, so are we in control to the government and are somehow forcing you to get married and be slaves to women, or are we “slaves to the patriarchy”? Because both of these things can’t be true, Timmy.
Methinks Timmy isn’t sure what “the patriarchy” is.
Oh, this should be good.
Okay, this is a UK relevant thing, so those of us in the States might be a bit out of the loop, so I Googled it (which I would assuredly teach my son how to do). I would also defer to Alan on all the points I’m about to make here, as I’m not exactly savvy in UK law. I’m an artist, not a lawyer. But, good thing I know how to Google and read things!
According to the bill, it’s there to provide protections to “persons” (which sounds very gender neutral) who are in cohabitant relationships.
So, this would also protect men as well, not just women, and it would cover both same-sex and different-sex couples. However, obviously giving protection to us feeemales in any degree is apparently a plot to force men like Timmy here into some kind of slavery. Because Timmy believes that rights and protections under the law are finite resources, and giving any to us feeemales would be taking it away from their rightful owners, the MEN.
Of course, the obvious way to avoid any issues with this law would be to not move in with your significant other and live in separate houses, and not to have children with them, but Timmy is of course nothing if not a man who likes to exaggerate things.
Oh, and the bill has “prohibited degrees of relationship” to exclude incestuous relationships or adopted children shacking up with their adopted parent(s), which could be good for helping to protect abuse victims.
I’ve only given this a cursory glance, but if anyone else (besides Timmy) would like to add their two cents, by all means please do.
This does apply to the US, but it seems to vary state-to-state. So I’ll be talking about my home state of California for a bit.
So, what is Affirmative Consent? Affirmative Consent is “affirmative, conscious and voluntary agreement to engage in sexual activity”. That’s it.
It’s a law that simply states “If the victim was passed out, didn’t agree to sex, and/or had to be coerced into it, it was rape”.
No where in there does it say anything about automagically locking men up for even being accused of rape, and I would love for Timmy to provide examples of this actually fucking happening.
And while Timmy’s ignoring my request, I’ll go ahead and post statistics showing that most rapists don’t even get punished, and most victims (of all genders) are afraid of coming forward for a myriad of reasons.
Ah yes, another one of the Manosphere’s worst enemies: People telling them they can’t call hate speech “criticism” and continue to harass people.
“You’re a feminist c*nt!” isn’t criticism.
Threatening to kill women because they disagreed with you on the internet isn’t criticism.
Threating a woman with rape because she “stepped out of line” isn’t criticism.
Calling someone a homophobic slur, or telling them that they’re going to hell for being homosexual isn’t criticism.
Calling someone a racist slur isn’t criticism.
And perhaps if you understood that, then you’d realize that this law wouldn’t be a problem.
The thing about feminist criticism is: Feminists manage to do it all the fucking time without using hate speech. And yet, the manosphere can’t even manage that.
Coercive abuse isn’t “denying wives or girlfriends female privilege”, it’s controlling and dominating your partner in an abusive way, you horseradish and pumpernickel sandwich.
It’s denying them access to the outside world via socializing or social media, it’s dictating what they wear, it’s threatening them, humiliating them, intimidating them, or controlling every little thing they do. This is abuse, and yes, it would still be abuse if a woman did it to a man.
It’s rather telling you think this is just “men denying women female privilege” though. It’s rather telling how most Manospherians think abuse is a-ok when it’s “keeping the females in line”.
Oh, and would you look at that? This law is gender neutral as well! So, if a woman does this to a man, she’ll be arrested for abuse! Yay!
VAWA only granted police departments more money to investigate domestic violence, not just randomly throw men in jail.
Do you not know what a fucking “investigation” is? Or even watch some sort of crime drama?
Hell, every instance of domestic abuse I’ve seen on Cops always has the cops ask both parties what happened at the very least.
Again, “investigation” is a word you apparently don’t know the meaning of.
You don’t get your bank account frozen, or have your drivers license or your passport revoked. All the restraining order does is say “Stay X distance away from this person. Don’t contact them in any way. They don’t want you around them.”
If you live with the person who is getting a restraining order against you, one of you has to move out, and you will get the opportunity to remove your personal belongings from the home if you are the one who needs to leave, but you will need police supervision as you do so. And if they choose to move out instead, they will be given the same police escort to get their personal belongings, as well as anything they can prove is theirs.
On top of that, if someone has a restraining order against you, you also have an option to contest it and go in front of a judge to dispute it, if you so choose.
And this does suck, and most feminists would agree with you, especially those of us who have health issues or psychological problems, or who are also struggling with the economy. (These are not men-only problems.) And there are plenty of programs like Club Reinvent out of Virginia, that are out there to help people avoid going to jail for lack of payment.
However, outright refusing to support your children for whatever reason isn’t excusable. Saying “I just don’t want to pay child support!”, “I don’t want to support their mother!” isn’t fair to them, who rely on their parents to survive.
And parents who do this are shitty, and yes, fathers do it too, and yes, they’re just as shitty as the women who do it.
However, if the accusations are, in fact, true, then they don’t deserve to see their children. And yes, this is for either parent.
That’s mostly gross-as-fuck gender roles at play. Women are the caretakers of the house and children, men are the breadwinners, and this is patriarchy in action.
Not to mention there’s also toxic masculinity in play: Men just sometimes don’t want to ask for help. They see it as a sign of “weakness”, and see getting alimony, especially from their ex-wife, as a “hand out”, or “begging”, and a lot of men will suffer without the money instead to maintain their pride.
And those men will also insist that if the roles were reversed, they’d fight paying alimony tooth and nail, which is also bullshit.
And yes, I want to have a rework of alimony too. It sucks pretty much all around as it is now.
Here’s a good Forbes article on the subject.
Women were banned (in the United States) from being in combat roles in 1994, and this wasn’t lifted until 2013. In fact, just last month, the US Department of Defense finally said that they’d allow women in all roles in the military. And considering it was men saying that women weren’t fit for combat, or they’d distract the male soldiers…
[Source]
So yeah, most of the dangerous jobs don’t hire as many women.
I wonder why those statistics are the way they are.
And what exactly are you doing about it besides yelling at women on the internet over it? And why are you using men’s problems as a bludgeon against feminists who actually do give a shit about this and some of whom actually work with homeless men?
Ah yes, this old chestnut of a PRATT.
Instead of breaking this shit down for you, because it is a Point Refuted A Thousand Times, I’m just going to link you some things and give you some quotes, because I highly doubt that you’re actually going to read all of this.
Suicide Statistics by Natalie Statts Reiss, Ph.D. and Mark Dombeck, Ph.D.
There’s that Toxic Masculinity I mentioned earlier again.
Why do More Men Commit Suicide? by Peter R. Orszag of Bloomberg
Gender Differences in Suicide – Wikipedia
The Gender Inequality of Suicide: Why Are Men at Such High Risk? by Alice G. Walton of Forbes
Though, of course, I’d ask what you’re doing to help all of this as well, besides complaining on the internet to people who are actually rather sympathetic about male suicide, and aren’t using it as a bludgeon to score “points” in a discussion with feminists.
I will teach my sons (if I have them, or have kids at all) to avoid Manospherians like the plague, thank you very much.
Because no one hates men more or thinks less of men than men like you who insist that all men are abusive, rapist douchecanoes who need to hurt women in order to “maintain order” or to project all their problems on women in order to ignore all their problems or actually do something about them. I’d like to think my hypothetical future sons are better than that.
Oooh, can I do one too? And if people like it, I can put it up in the store maybe?
Because the best thing about it is: It can be used to mock Miggytoes and can also be worn by feminist allies!
Is a new teal deer troll lurking under the bridge? Why, yes! I just finished writing a new blog post, so I’m already in a drunken typing state, so I got this.
For the eleventy billionth time, we discuss MGTOW because you never actually go your own way! You troll feminist spaces, you constantly obsess over women and how evil we are, you constantly rage wank all over the god damn internet about it. Just go. Go your own away already! If you weren’t spewing misogyny all over the place, we wouldn’t be mocking you. Trust me, we’re not interested in you for anything other than mocking.
Aren’t you a drama queen? I could say drama king since you’re obviously a guy, but I think I’ll compare you to something feeeemale just to piss you off.
I don’t think you have the slightest fucking clue what slavery is. Men who choose to get married are consenting. Slaves do not consent. That you can make the choice not to get married proves you are in no way a slave. It’s fucking offensive to compare being a married man to slavery.
How is this now? I can’t speak for the conservative side of things, but the worst thing we on the progressive side are doing is mocking you. So how are we destroying your lifestyle. Seriously. Go your own way. Nobody is stopping you. If you didn’t make a post here, we wouldn’t even be aware of your pathetic existence. You know that, right?
Again with the dramatics. How does mocking a misogynistic and rapey reddit post prevent you from not proposing to any women? Please explain it to me. I don’t see the connection. I guess I’m flattered that you see me, a “WHTM woman” as having so much influence over your day to day life though. I didn’t know I was so powerful. But since I have the ability to order you around, I simply must tell you that I prefer the label Mammotheer over WHTM Woman.
Grateful? If MGTOWs are so grateful, why do you always make posts that are full of seething rage? I can see the flecks on your screen from here, dude. I’m also going to need you to explain corporate white knight to me. I’m actually pretty anti capitalist and I don’t really see how powerful corporations are in anyway an ally to feminism. Are you just trying to say that working for corporations sucks for men? Because I have news for you. It sucks for us too! Just because you don’t like something, doesn’t mean it’s feminist. Grow up.
What the fuck does this even mean?
Oh please, Timmy. Do bestow your pearls of wisdom on us. I can’t wait!
I’m pretty sure you just dreamed this one up after doing bath salts. I really don’t think you get how common law marriage works.
Oh no, you have to get consent before having sex!? Such misandry!
Criticism and hate speech are not the same thing. You need to learn the basic meanings of words before you make an attempt to have any kind of conversation about law. You really do.
Not being abused = female privilege? Who knew!
That’s actually really fucking sick that you think it’s some horrible burden to be expected to not abuse your partner. Seriously. What the fuck is wrong with you? It’s laughable that you think we’re lamenting someone as contemptible as you withdrawing from the dating pool. Again I say, go your own goddamn way already.
Citation needed.
Again, learn what terms mean before you try to use them. All a restraining order does is order you not to go within a certain distance of someone. And female stalkers and abusers can get served with restraining orders too, you know. Why do you want to take away protections from male abuse victims?
Citation needed again. Jail is a last resort that happens only if a deadbeat dad doesn’t work in good faith with the courts. I know, as a feminist and progressive I tend to oppose debtor’s prison for any kind of debts. A father would really have to purposely neglect his child to make jail appropriate. It doesn’t really help the kid to put their parent’s in jail, after all. Of course, you’re too busy arguing with the straw feminists in your head to realize that “SJWs” tend not to be big cheerleaders for the prison industrial complex.
So, first you argue for the right of men to completely neglect their children, and/or abuse their wives but you don’t want the kids or their mothers to be unhappy about it? Okay, Timmy. That makes total sense.
Alimony is not actually all that common anymore because most women work now and it’s not feminists who push the narrative that women are the ones who have to be the primary caretakers of children. The reason men have to pay child support more often is that men tend not to seek custody and tend not to have ever been the primary caretakers. If you don’t want kids, put a glove on it or abstain. If you do want kids, it’s your responsibility to care for them.
Women in the US just got the right to be in combat positions in the military. Feminism made that possible by challenging gender roles. So what’s your problem? Feminists are also not typically opposed to strong labor rights laws. Women, despite efforts by men to push them out of the labor movement, have always been part of the effort to make workplaces safer and better. Check out Mother Jones. The woman, not the magazine. Although the magazine is pretty good too. So again, why get mad at us? Your beef is with capitalism. Nobody here is a Randroid, sonny.
Or not. Teaching hate does nothing positive for anyone of any gender.
@Tim
The door’s over there. Please go your own way.
http://replygif.net/i/796.gif
Absolutely! Especially since all my attempts just look like flaccid dicks. Damn their phallic logo. =P
Thanks for taking the time and energy to write to us, Tim, telling us all about how you’ve gone your own way.
But why you would interrupt your life, the “fulfilling, sovereign life MGTOW live today” or your superhuman efforts to fight those who refuse to allow most men to live this life? After all, “the horrific anti-male gynocentrists are working furiously to ensure that a life like mine – a life free from women’s and white knight’s crucifying, man-hating power – is unattainable for the vast majority of current and future men.”
Good grief, man! You’re either lounging about blissfully or battling the enemy in the street — and yet you take time out to write to us!
I am humbled.
Bonne chance avec votre contre-révolution!
Good luck with your counterrevolution!
@dhag85
Grattis på födelsedagen!
I hope that it’s a very enjoyable day and that your (31st?) year is fulfilling.