Jimmy Kimmel Mocks Return of Kings With A More Manly Version of The Force Awakens

@Luzbelitx:

Oh my, that video… -_- Trump recommended Macri as a mayor of Buenos Aires though, not president; that was old footage. In fact, it’s all from before Trump’s rise to racist stardom. That’s just nitpicking though, I understand that Macri’s not a nice guy. He did praise Ayn Rand’s writing after all! (As an aside, I find it funny, and yet a sadly representative of our divided society, that on that video’s sidebar I found links to both a video heralding Macri as the prophesized savior of our country, and another one showing “evidence” of his supposed membership to the evil Illuminati.)

I’d need to know what do you consider “ultra-Kirchnerist media” to answer that…

Sorry, I should have been more specific indeed. I just meant the “big guns”: Página 12, C5N, 678 and the like; the ones owned by rich Kirchnerist businesspeople. Any other source could do, and the one you provided was perfect, so thanks! Believe me, I don’t trust Clarín and other powerful media any more than I trust the sources I mentioned earlier. Same shit; different smell -like most politicians over here, really.

Well, C5N is quickly shifting to pro-new-government, so I’d believe they are more ultramoney-making than “rich powerful kirchnerists”.

Once a bootlicker, always a bootlicker I guess :\

The fundamental trick of conservative media was to effectively position themselves as “objective” and any non-hostility towards kirchnerism as “ultra fanatism”.

You’re right, but meanwhile the fundamental trick of the kirchnerist governments was to position themselves as flawless champions of social justice*, and any criticism towards them as imperialistic attempts to instigate a coup d’état. The result? A political divide which makes Republicans and Democrats look like the Get Along Gang. Sigh… I hope we eventually stop playing their power games, find a third path, and make amends.

* While they made lots of welcome progress like introducing gay marriage, the truth is that our last two presidents were in many ways demagogues who just did and said whatever would buy them the most goodwill to cover their asses in case their shady dealings were discovered. They were allied with the menemist government that they currently denounce, and even hegemonic media like Clarín was in good terms with them until they decided to go against the interests of the agricultural barons (think Cliven Bundy with less physical weapons, but even more economic and political ones).

he fundamental trick of the kirchnerist governments was to position themselves as flawless champions of social justice

Actually, and again we may disagree at large, I think all popular movements in Latin America are treated by the dominant elites (who either belong or look up to privileged classes in societies like Us and Europe) much in the same way patriarchy treats feminism and women’s movements.

I really don’t intend to chicanear here, but I couldn’t help associating “champions of social justice” with “social justice warrior”. It’s not so much what they claimed to be, rather it was what their enemies painted them to (pretend to) be.

and any criticism towards them as imperialistic attempts to instigate a coup d’état.

Then again, there were actual imperialistic attempts to instigate a coup d’etat, or just enough social chaos to bring the government down.

I hope we eventually stop playing their power games, find a third path,

Now I’m really hoping you’re aware of what the Third Position is and who came up with it 😉

They were allied with the menemist government that they currently denounce

They were not, in fact, they were “inside resistance” within the Partido Justicialista. They have always been a minority and needed to forge alliances with more powerful fractions. Besides, they were public servants at the time, and there’s an amount of compromise a governor needs to get along with let’s say a president.

It’s a power relation within democracy that is always there, and the path to resolve it is to acknowledge it and then take action within the available options and according to the amount of power you handle in each situation.

But they have always denounced the politics of structural poverty, unemployment and dependency through debt, and there is visual and printed documentation of it.

They may not have been supporting all along human rights groups like Madres and Abuelas de Plaza de Mayo, but if being a social justice warrior has taught me anything, it that I trust their guts.

Women who stood up to the military dictatorship, and never got to see their loved ones again, in some cases knowing they are probably alive, are not easily fooled or distracted, or bribed or bought.

even hegemonic media like Clarín was in good terms with them until they decided to go against the interests of the agricultural barons

You are saying it yourself: it was Clarin who decided wether they were in good or bad terms. Again, Clarin is an almost 100 year old newspaper, but during the 1990s it became a cluster of media, a business group which was also shareholder of many powerful and unimaginably profitable business like public health outsourced to private business (AFJP), technology business like TechInt and even… *ominous drumroll* agricultiural exporters!

So we’re not really speaking of media here, but of concentrated power.

Considering the power balance of big business over society vs a government which must deal with democratic mechanisms and bureaucracy, which one would you say has the more chances to influence the public’s opinion in its favor?

Actually, and again we may disagree at large, I think all popular movements in Latin America are treated by the dominant elites (who either belong or look up to privileged classes in societies like Us and Europe) much in the same way patriarchy treats feminism and women’s movements.

Nope, I actually agree with that 100%. I know the elites’ rhetoric quite well and it’s truly disgusting, not to mention counterproductive: their bogus criticism is the noise that makes it easier for those popular movements to hide the real flaws they sometimes have, and I despise the oligarchs all the more for it.

I really don’t intend to chicanear here, but I couldn’t help associating “champions of social justice” with “social justice warrior”. It’s not so much what they claimed to be, rather it was what their enemies painted them to (pretend to) be.

I disagree. They revelled in the adoration they received with gusto and literally tried to create a new national myth around their presidencies, practically succeding despite their enemies’ best efforts. I even wish I could believe it… I do agree with many of their policies after all. When they did good they did good and that cannot be denied. Furthermore, let me honestly tell you this: I’m glad that they still have a strong foothold in the legislative power. Macri absolutely needs to be kept on a leash. I like “Social Justice Warriors”, I want them in the government, I envy their resolve and their conviction, but these people were mostly playing the part for their audience and little more, while robbing them backstage.

They were not, in fact, they were “inside resistance” within the Partido Justicialista.

Once again I wish I could believe you, but I just don’t buy it; it sounds just like another lame attempt at covering their asses. Also, I had heard about Néstor Kirchner’s corruption before he actually became our president, from people who actually knew him personally.

But they have always denounced the politics of structural poverty, unemployment and dependency through debt, and there is visual and printed documentation of it.

People change; power corrupts. Young idealists turn into jaded assholes all the time, I’ve got militant friends who have seen it happening repeatedly to people within their ranks. Also, there’s never a shortage of hypocrites who are in it for the power only.

Women who stood up to the military dictatorship, and never got to see their loved ones again, in some cases knowing they are probably alive, are not easily fooled or distracted, or bribed or bought.

I see you’re way less cynic than me; that’s good actually. You’re more useful to society than I will ever be, and for that I commend you… but you’re talking about an organization whose leader openly claimed that the terrorist attacks on 9/11 made her happy, among other terrible and even outright criminal things. I just can’t give them the benefit of the doubt, no matter how good their ultimate cause is.

Then again, there were actual imperialistic attempts to instigate a coup d’etat, or just enough social chaos to bring the government down.

Exaggerated claims. And now it’s the kirchnerists who want to do it…

Considering the power balance of big business over society vs a government which must deal with democratic mechanisms and bureaucracy, which one would you say has the more chances to influence the public’s opinion in its favor?

We’re not the USA; most of our people are openly hostile towards capitalism gone wild, as they should be. Do you think Macri won this election because people liked him? Nope, he won because people liked kirchnerism even less, and he probably won’t have another victory like this ever again -which sounds great to me. If Scioli hadn’t been so spineless and softened his ties to the political party which did nothing but bully and demean him at every chance it could, he might have defeated Macri by a landslide.

Perón got to power for no other reason than popular claim. He represented the masses that till then had had no voice and no decision. Unions existed but had not made great advances at that point. Eva was a lovely woman who gave things to the poor, what was not to love and what was not to hate about it, depending on which side you were?

You’re right, I admit it. I really have no problems with Eva Perón; I do have some reservations about her husband but that’s a whole different story for another time.

The truth is, some political leaders are loved, and there’s nothing more to say about that. Cynics will have to get over it.

Aaand once again, I have to admit you’re right. It does me no good to dwell on that and it doesn’t help the discussion at all. Sorry.

you don’t get to the power in Argentina and you don’t stay there against the concentrated power’s will, if you are just playing the part for your audience.

Sigh… yep, you’re positively thrashing me here. I must admit that so far I haven’t been able to come up with with an answer to this that doesn’t sound like a silly conspiracy theory, at least not without enough data to back it up. You thoroughly win this argument.

Peronists work. We are messy, we yell, some of us are dishonest and some of as are filthy. But we get the work done.

Maybe, but I think there are smaller left-wing parties that could do an even better job, if we just let them try sometime. Those are the ones I always vote for.

It’s absurd to speak about the Kirchners “robbing backstage” and not acknowledge all the backstage robbing that’s been going on at gunpoint, bombings, and outright terrorism.

You are correct; there are no saints on our history. Once again I must apologize.

So you hated him before it was mainstream, and gossip is totally not a thing in politics. Huh.

Ouch! Low blow, but I gues I deserve it for lowering my guard.

Now, that is very close to victim blaming, and you should know better.

And “outright criminal things” MY ASS. You’re talking about my Mothers here, and if you make an accusation like that you better goddamn prove it.

Round… 4? 5? I’ve lost count, you’re hitting me so hard that I’m starting to loose consciousness. But seriously, I’m sorry, I really am. I was way out of line there. I spoke out of my ass and all that came out was diarrhea. I feel my mind failing me as I dehydrate.

And which side are you on? What’s your take in this scenario?

I… honestly don’t know any more, and at this point it’s safe to say that this argument is over, as I utterly lost any foothold I had in it, if any. Being compared to a MRA was a punch I wasn’t expecting, and it really knocked me out. It hurt a lot, but the truth is that you’ve given me a fair and square ideological beating, and a lot to think about as I lick my wounds. Perhaps, in some way, this is actually what I wanted when I engaged you: to be given some much needed perspective. In many ways I was blinded, you’re right. I still think there’s a lof of hypocrisy around and I still don’t agree with a lot of things about our previous government, but now I can at least begin to analize it in a truly critical fashion. Thank you.

PS: Yeah, on second thought Scioli really has some serious guts. So many people of his own party hated him and insulted him at every opportunity, and yet he stayed there until the bitter end. I can’t fathom doing something like that for anything other than true faith in the cause. I’m sorry he lost, but these are just four years. We will survive, and we’ll be stronger no matter what.

I’m sure this is low-hanging fruit, but the mind reels at the prospect of what kind of (presumably unfulfilled?) sexual fantasies a person must have that “cuck” becomes the go-to meaningless insult.

It’s like going around calling everyone a “power bottom,” to demonstrate how not-gay you are compared to everyone else.