There’s some classic we-hunted-the-mammoth-ing going on in the Red Pill subreddit today, with some dude calling himself HumanSockPuppet reminding his fellow dudes of all the fine work done by the dudes of the species over the years, with regard to raising civilization from the muck, holding back chaos, that sort of thing.
In a heavily upvoted comment crying out for a dramatic reading, HumanSockPuppet declares that
Men must understand that WE are the valuable half of a relationship.
We are the designers, the workers, the innovators, the protectors. Forty-thousand years of our species’ dominance on the planet is built upon our efforts.
So declares a dude sitting on his ass posting to Reddit, in a message aimed at other dudes sitting on their asses reading Reddit.
Without men, our species returns to the muck, ill-equipped for survival in a harsh and unfettered world. We are the sex that battles against chaos. WE ARE ORDER.
Dude, it’s not just men. Everyone who owns a cat fights the forces of chaos on a daily basis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XyijPE6P6E
Seriously. The story of civilization has basically been a 10,000-year-struggle against cats knocking over our crap.
A bitch’s job is just to make more men.
Huh. And when these, er, bitches eventually die off, how are all those men going to make more men? Seems like that might be a teensy little flaw in the argument there, ORDER MAN.
Women have become accustomed to the ease and fairness of society. They believe ease and fairness are inherent properties of the universe. No. Ease and fairness are extracted forcibly from nature by winning in battle against it with blood, and sweat, and tears, and time.
Blood and sweat, and tears, and time. Well, here’s Blood, Sweat and Tears:
And here’s The Time, with Morris Day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZKR-6jf_2o
Not sure what any of this has to do with extracting fairness from nature but, I dunno, the songs are pretty catchy.
So when a bitch starts acting like she’s entitled to the ease and fairness that you fought to win, why are you just handing it away?
Uh, I’m not sure that sitting on your ass posting to Reddit technically counts as fighting nature, red in tooth and claw.
Your time is precious. And anything that you spent your time to earn is also precious. If your life is together, your body is strong, your mind is acute, and your assets secure, then your worth is already proven. If someone wants a piece of what you have, they don’t get it for free. They must earn your love and appreciation by first offering theirs.
Hold up a hoop, set it on fire, and command her to jump.
And if she’s all like, what the hell are you talking about you pompous weirdo, you could try the hoop thing with your cat instead. I mean, your cat owes you some kind of entertainment after knocking over pretty much everything you own on a regular basis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8-BP-I6ou0
Just leave out the bit about lighting the hoop on fire. Fur burns.
H/T — r/TheBluePill
I’m having a hard time figuring out exactly what he means here. Is he talking about humanity vs nature, or men getting rights from within society? If it’s the former, then he should know evidence suggests it’s most likely women began agriculture, which would be the first real example of “forcibly extracting” fairness from nature. Hunting wouldn’t be the case, since many many animals hunt, and I don’t see how that is “extracting fairness.” (Also, women hunted, too (and I’m sure realistically, men helped with agriculture).) If it’s the latter, which “men” is he talking about? The lower class demanding rights from the upper class? One race demanding rights from a dominant race? How is that different than women demanding rights from men? (Other than the obvious?)
(See remark about agriculture above, everything below begins after agriculture, of course.)
Hrm… The thing the really bothers me about statements like this is that it really doesn’t examine… anything. It applies equal state to everyone and looks at the results. The group with the highest number is obviously the best. But, it’s so sad, and of course it’s a simple “man vs woman” examination. So the highest number of famous inventors were men, then men must be better.
Let’s examine it further. First, we’re going to ditch the “workers” bit. Women have been the “workers” just as much as men. It’s a ridiculously stupid statement to make. Second, out of the men who were designers and innovators, how many were upper class vs lower class (or whatever class system the society in question had)? In the society these innovations took place, what were the dominant ethnic groups, and which groups did these male innovations and designs come from?
If you examine the results, you come to a very basic trend. Generally oppressed groups don’t get as much of a chance to be innovators and designers because they are oppressed. Imagine that! The biggest factor in who gets to be the innovators is opportunity.
I highly doubt… any of this. Since they obviously don’t mean that humans will cease to exist because we’d lose half our genetic material and means of actually producing young, but because we’d be lost without men, I’ll be countering that. Sexual dimorphism is pretty small in humans. The only time it’s really significant is within human to human interaction. And society exaggerates the dimorphism. So without men, there’d be no social pressure to not be as potentially muscular and strong as women can be, decreasing the general appearance of dimorphism we typically see on average.
And what chaos has this guy ever battled against anyway? So so stupid.
I think it would be funny if some genie came along and transported all these men to a humanless new Earth, with plenty of supplies invented entirely by men to help them out, but nothing invented largely by women. Without clothing, ceramics, basketry, or domesticated plants, let alone computers, I wonder how fast they’d knock together a civilization.
That says a lot right there. They can’t wrap their brains around the fact that rights can be shared without one group ending up with the short end of the stick. Someone always has to be dominant in their minds.
These guys are actually the type that DO slide civilization into muck. They have no worth themselves so they take out their anger on a scapegoat, in this case women. Their ideology about women is similar to, say, ISIS or the Taliban. The most patriarchal cultures are barbaric and violent. Cultures with equality benefit from the strengths of both sexes and balance each other out, and thus they are more peaceful. The level of dehumanization Red Pillers engage in is so disgusting and beyond the pale. Also, if these losers think women have done nothing for society, they are sorely wrong. They wouldn’t be using their computers right now if it wasn’t for the the input of the first computer programmer, Ada Lovelace. Many women rulers have ushered in ages of prosperity, arts, and scholarship (the pharaoh Hatshepsut, Elizabeth I, Catherine the Great, Queen Victoria, etc.) The founder of natural science in Germany was a nun and a woman (Hildegarde von Bingen). She wrote medical texts, music, painted, created botanical works, and poetry. Amazingly, some women have managed these achievements despite a fiercely patriarchal culture that tried to keep them out of education and almost every career field and could. Women are JUST starting to experience equality, when you really think about it. Only a couple decades ago we were expected to stay at home. We have catching up to do, for sure, but I think only good things will come from not having a whole half of humanity not using their talents to make the world better.
Dog owners family members also fight our own kind of chaos. It’s pretty common when a tail can clear off an entire table while the owner of said tail is not even aware that it’s happening.
My grandmother’s cat had another way of causing chaos. He was a giant white cat, both from just being naturally big and also because my grandmother showed love by feeding. He would hide behind something, then jump out with claws and teeth bared at whoever happened to have the misfortune of walking that way right then. He thought this was an awesome game. I guess somewhere before adopting my grandmother he got the idea that screams and bleeding were human play signals.
Women couldn’t apply for patents in the distant past, so often husbands or brothers would for them. I just don’t understand why MRA’s WANT to return to the past. If they applaud progress and civilization then women’s contributions matter.
Ok, that was supposed to say dog family members. It’s time for bed!!!
It is funny. Assuming that pre-agricultural humankind did divide labor as man=hunter woman=gatherer as MRA’s like to insist, then chances are that women discovered/invented agriculture. Think about it. Who is going to figure out how to tend to plant life. The people that regularly locate, identifies and gathers local plants or someone who stabs animals with sharpened sticks? Without the invention/discovery of agriculture you can kiss modern society as we know it goodbye.
Apologies in advanced for any grammatical errors, I probably shouldn’t have tried to comment at 2:30 in the morning but insomnia is a harsh mistress.
Marshall’s work has been called into question by military historians who point out the lack of corroboration and the many other veterans who disputed his findings (my father, who was a machine gun team leader in France in 1945 and who went on to become a university professor, despised Marshall and insisted that his book was not an accurate depiction of the realities of combat). Grossman’s work draws on Marshall’s.
They are still both interesting reads but don’t take them as gospel.
Paradoxy, may I quote that diagram please? It’s awesome. I needs it. Neeeeeeeeeds.
The whole “who invented what” question is so facile because, as much as these guys would like to be Randian supermen who revolutionize industry just by the power of their enormous brains, in real life invention is always a collaborative process. All big changes come about because a lot of people made incremental contributions, and yes, it’s pretty likely that some of them were women.
@PI
You’re a legend! And I’ll have you on my team of preserving whatever I catch.
That chart will go in handy. So much handy!
Hello.
New World Order ? Is it conspiracy again ?
Well, then, date and marry another man, so you have a whole valuable relationship, and do not bother ranting again. Problem solved !
Have a nice day.
Deborah is very much anti-MRA; I’m assuming her comment was sarcastic, though I confess I don’t quite understand her point.
This kind of rant (“Men are valuable; women are not — make her bow down to you!”) is just wank material for these guys. The rant doesn’t have to be consistent at all. Writer and reader might not even believe what’s written. It just gives the woman-hating writer a thrill to write this stuff — and gives the woman-hating reader a thrill to read it.
Manosphere rants remind me of the “true detective” type of magazines I used to see in supermarkets in Los Angeles. There was always a half-naked woman on the cover with some lurid headline about a woman being murdered. That’s what these guys like to do: read about how evil women are and how they have come (or will come) to no good end.
Feeling strong? Check this out. (If you’re not feeling strong, go to the next comment.)
https://www.google.com/search?q=true+crime+magazine+covers&biw=683&bih=397&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjD57C66ZTKAhVG3WMKHe7IAgMQsAQIGw&dpr=1.5
Wwth,
Thanks.
@ kat & shay
Firstly, thanks for the heads up about the Vonnegut book. I’m a big fan of his work so I’ll keep an eye out for that.
The story I heard was that Kurt’s brother was a scientist. He worked on a defoliant project with the aim of reclaiming farmable land in countries with food shortages. That ended up being Agent Orange though, as used in the Vietnam War.
This influenced Kurt’s view that all science ended up being misused, as reflected in books like Cats Cradle. Be interesting to see what the book says about that.
As for the military stuff, Grossman does address some of the criticisms of Marshall’s methodology. He does draw on other sources and research though that suggest Marshall’s conclusions were correct. It’s all pretty fascinating, especially the historical stuff and does support the view that in warfare throughout history the majority of killing has been carried out by a small number of combatants. 15 to 20% seems to be a consistent figure for people who can overcome the inhibition on violence without special training or conditioning. This is something that has cropped up a lot in my military legal work so it’s a particular interest of mine.
@ Leda atomica
Yeah, I love all that stuff. We’re a fascinating species. Give us another ten thousand years and we might have evolved into something quite decent.
How one species of hairless ape blundered down an evolutionary path that, in the short term at least, seems to have been fairly beneficial is amazing to contemplate. I don’t think we can brag though until we’ve clocked up as much time as, say, T Rex. Brains and opposable thumbs seem like a big deal but that’s maybe just our confirmation bias. T Rex could have put up a decent argument that big teeth were more useful.
I’ve seen some stuff about how hierarchical structures etc may have evolved. Some quirky stuff there like why 12 seems to be he optimum group size for important decision making, but evo psych topics can be a bit speculative and lack scientific rigour.
The only study into ‘Alpha’ behaviour though that I can think of off the top of my head is the fictional one in Brave New World.
Sorry for the random whining but am I the only one who doesn’t know a single person who’ll EVER pick up their damn phone when you call? Why do people have phones. Arrrghhhhhh
Phones? You mean mobile internet devices?
@EJ
NO I mean PHONES. Sorry, I’ll calm down. :p
I have a similar problem with my dad’s hearing aid. He got a hearing aid because it’s impossible to talk to him without it. But he never ever wears it because he “needs a break from the noise”. Whyyyy
There’s a rumour that in the early XXIth century people still communicated by creating sound waves in the air and picking them up with their music-listening-organs, but I thought that nowadays most first-world people had transferred to electronic written communication instead. :p
@ EJ
I find that hard to believe. How did these hypothetical people do smilies?
Those of us who find phone calls awkward still need phones so that we can send and receive texts, because everyone else has a phone and relies on it instead of getting to appointments on time.
It’s the people who leave voicemails that piss me off the most. The content of the voicemail is only ever “please ring back”, not whatever it was they wanted to ask/say in the first place.
https://youtu.be/zhRzORqNa0E