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Open Thread: The “militia” takeover of a federal building in Oregon

Armed fanatics seeking controntation somehow not terrorists
Armed fanatics seeking confrontation, somehow not terrorists

Apparently the US media doesn’t really think it’s a big deal for a small army of heavily armed fanatics to take over government property in hopes of spurring some sort of armed revolution — if the armed fanatics in question are white guys.

Share information, insights, etc.

And, as you may already be aware, alt-right trolls are actively spreading misinformation about this standoff, so if you run across any of that please point it out here as well.

No trolls, MRAs, etc.

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EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

The village of Fucking (near Salzburg) was always my favourite weird place name. The good burghers of Fucking are fed up of anglophonic people constantly stealing their signs, but I can understand why it happens.

(Allegedly they used to have a sign which said “Fucking – Bitte, nicht so schnell!” on it as a tourist attraction. I have no idea if this is true or not.)

There’s also a place in Tyrolia called Wank which allegedly gets an enormous number of people taking indecent pictures of themselves in front of the signs.

Bless the people of Austria. Without them, whom would we mock?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

Re: Place names

We have a “Cowshit Lane” just down the road.

http://www.salon.com/2000/06/01/england_3/

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

Re: Alternative Group Names

Is “Redneck Army Faction” a bit too 1970s?

Orion
Orion
5 years ago

There’s a Fucking in Australia as well, where they have no fucking excuse. There was recently a ballot initiative to change the name, but the locals voted to keep it.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

Mom’s Apple Pie R A?

mockingbird
mockingbird
5 years ago

It’s hilarious that they’d asked people to mail them food using The US Postal Service.

I don’t know that this is the case for this specific location, but there are apparently a number of places that UPS, FedEx, etc won’t touch because they’re too remote to be profitable.

Since they’re asking people to use a socialized service rather than its free market alternatives, I’m guessing this wilife refuge office might qualify.

re: place names: I used to pass this on a fairly frequent basis:

{Insert picture of Dismal Hollow Road that I’d hoped to find but didn’t}

http://bit.ly/1PHOkek
Always cracked me up.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

I thought the US Postal Service was one of the few services that Sovereign Citizens regarded as the “legitimate” agencies of the Federal Government?

Ledasmom
Ledasmom
5 years ago

occasional reader: Phantom goats? I am rather afraid to ask, and yet, I ask.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
5 years ago

Actually, it’s just that in Corsica, they declare more goats than they acgtually have because they get governmental help for each goat.

Another common Corsica stuff is that dead people still votes, sometime 20 years after their deaths. Sadly, it’s not because actual ghost go to the voting station.

dhag85
dhag85
5 years ago

It’s pretty amazing that Matt Forney actually wrote a book with the title “Do the Philippines: How to Make Love to Filipino Girls in the Philippines”. I know he’s a Roosh fanboy, but come on, that’s too blatant.

Edit: Ha ha ha. He posted a “review” of the book, by some other manospherian weirdo. First sentence of the review:

Since Adam busted his first nut, men have been searching for the mystical Poosy Paradise.

I think I can see where this is going.

Verily Baroque
Verily Baroque
5 years ago

re: unfortunate place names

We thankfully don’t have any weird city names, but our lake names, let’s say, make you wonder if a practical joke was played on the mapmakers, either by their own assistants or by the locals.

One of the most common names for lakes is (translated) “Lake Shit”. It’s believed that there was some connection to how brown the lake’s water looked like. Another theory is that the person sent to name all the area’s features for the cartographer essentially went “fuck this shit” after lake #60. (We have literally nearly 200 000 lakes here.) This would also explain why we have several lakes creatively named “Lake Water”.

Also if you want to get extra pizzazz into your evil lair, how about building it next to Lake Evil? We have over two hundred of those, too.

Mike
Mike
5 years ago

The US state with probably the most weird town/place names is Texas (Texas is a very large state with many tiny towns). Texas town names include:

Ding Dong
Bigfoot
Uncertain
Zipperlandville
Cut and Shoot
Jot ‘Em Down
Telephone
Bug Tussle
Oatmeal
the endlessly creepy White Settlement
and, of course, the town of DISH, named after the satellite TV network as part of a marketing deal:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/22/us/texas-town-called-dish-has-an-identity-problem.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1

Oh and we shouldn’t forget the majestic Grand Teton mountain in Wyoming’s beautiful Grand Teton National Park. “Grand Teton” basically translates to “big tit.”

ej
ej
5 years ago

So, apparently, they now think they’re being treated worse than the BLM protesters.

“The Black Lives Matter movement, they can go and protest, close freeways down and all that stuff, and they don’t get any backlash, not on the level that we’re getting,” said the man, who identified himself as “Fluffy Unicorn.”

I guess it’s Opposite Day for Mr. Fluffy Unicorn.

mockingbird
mockingbird
5 years ago

@EJ – I’m actually not sure about sovereign citizens’ view of the USPS. I’ve just heard plenty of Libertarians rail against it and call for its privatization.

HeinzD
HeinzD
5 years ago

Canada, particularly Newfoundland, has some pretty amazing names. This is a song by comedy folk band The Arrogant Worms commemorating said names:

cointelpro
cointelpro
5 years ago

America is trash. It always has been trash and will always be trash. It was founded by and for landed white men, exclusively. This “revolution” is completely idiotic. They already have what they want. Borderline-fascist propaganda is galvanizing more and more white terrorists through fear and misinformation to pull this kind of shit.

For people wondering whether the US is a police state or if it’s becoming a police state: It’s always been a police state. Just ask any poor person of color who hasn’t been convinced of the rich white man’s superiority. For those wondering if the US is becoming fascist: Neoliberalism is already as bad as fascism. The US will never become fascist, but the atrocities it commits are on par with those committed by fascist states.

None of this should be surprising, yet middle class liberal whites are quick to deny all of it. These same white liberals, who don’t do shit for anyone but themselves and who stand up for the rights of Klansmen and human garbage like Bundy to speak and commit violence (their rallies are violence; their gatherings are a wish for violence), are just as bad as the fash themselves. Those who cluck their tongues at resistance and claim it’s “just as bad” as fascism are no better than fascists themselves. They’re the sort of white moderates King was disgusted by. They’re the sort of white moderates who allow this environment of fear and violence to propagate.

Freedom of speech is less than worthless if you aim to silence vulnerable individuals and communities through threats of violence or through curating a space where those threats of violence are considered sacred because durrr even playing field rite guise.

Moneyed white liberals are just as bad as white conservatives. They’re far, far more right-wing than they realize.

Kale
Kale
5 years ago

I dont understand why people are calling for cops to be aggressive. Thats a terrible idea that will end in death and ia just what these guys want.
Stay cool, stay back, & maybe have a damn conversation and theyll most likely get burned out and leave soon enough.

dlouwe
dlouwe
5 years ago

Re: Funny place names, here’s a local favourite: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dude_Chilling_Park

(Okay so it’s still officially “Guelph Park”, but basically nobody calls it that any more)

History Nerd
History Nerd
5 years ago

The “patriot” movement is far right, but their views on economics are all over the place. Some are right libertarians more or less and others accept types of non-Marxist socialism or bizarre alternatives to capitalism.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
5 years ago

I thought the US Postal Service was one of the few services that Sovereign Citizens regarded as the “legitimate” agencies of the Federal Government?

I imagine because it’s cheap and they can’t imagine life without it. Pfft.

nparker
nparker
5 years ago

@ cointelpro

Woah, referring to an entire country as ‘trash’ treads on really thin ice. That’s ridiculous.

mockingbird
mockingbird
5 years ago

The “patriot” movement is far right, but their views on economics are all over the place. Some are right libertarians more or less and others accept types of non-Marxist socialism or bizarre alternatives to capitalism.

All the ones I’ve run across have been reeeaally economically Libertarian (though it has swung between Ayn Randian and religious community-focused).

Neat to know that there’s some diversity there.

Robert
Robert
5 years ago

Factoid I read about the county in Oregon where this is happening – it’s almost the size of Massachusetts, and has a population of less than ten thousand.

Not a lot of anything there, apparently.

Also, due to various reasons, almost all cattle ranchers in the West graze their stock at least in part on public lands. The increasing tendency of the BLM to get them to pay for this has been a sore spot for some ranchers for decades. The cognitive dissonance between Rugged Individualist Rancher and Government Agency Client must be uncomfortable.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
5 years ago

Here’s something to cheer up the thread which Alan will like a lot because raccoon.

http://chantrytears.tumblr.com/post/136686353070/kingjaffejoffer-tragic-a-raccoon-accidentally

guy
guy
5 years ago

The ranchers have generally always paid; what’s changing is that the BLM has tightened land use requirements for environmental reasons and reduced the amount of land they’ll lease out and the ranchers wish they would go back to the old way of doing things. Some of them have instead decided to declare that laws don’t apply to them, but others have been trying to change things through democratic and legal channels.

The Hammonds have reported to federal prison on schedule without incident.

@occasional reader
After a couple of disastrous stormings of militia compounds a couple decades back, surrounding the building and waiting them out is now standard proceedure for this sort of situation. If it happened in a more populated area there’d probably have been a faster reaction, but it would have followed the same general profile, just getting roadblocks set up in hours rather than a day or two later.

sillybill
sillybill
5 years ago

Alan Robertshaw,

a few years ago, musician/activists fighting mountain top removal coal mining in southern appalachia were sitting around the campfire spitballing ideas and came up with ‘Redneck Anarchist Faction’ Tshirts for a fundraiser. the image was a crossed banjo and shotgun. like many ideas around the campfire, this one came to nought.

dlouwe
dlouwe
5 years ago

@Pandapool

I’ve seen that floating around Facebook for a couple days and I can’t help but smile every time I see it. The poor little guy! I know I’ve lost my candy floss to a puddle more than once. Figuratively, at least.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

After a couple of disastrous stormings of militia compounds a couple decades back, surrounding the building and waiting them out is now standard proceedure for this sort of situation. If it happened in a more populated area there’d probably have been a faster reaction, but it would have followed the same general profile, just getting roadblocks set up in hours rather than a day or two later.

To be honest, if these people are stranded out in the snow with no supplies, then soon enough they’ll need ambulances rather than police. Storming the place wouldn’t be required.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
5 years ago

@dlouwe

I was, like, “Ohhh nooooooo, poor baby *giggles*” because I’m a horrible person who likes seeing raccoons sad I guess.

History Nerd
History Nerd
5 years ago

@mockingbird They’re held together by conspiracy theories about the federal government and the banking system. Some are more open minded and less committed to a particular ideology. Also a number of left anarchists have gravitated towards far right and anti-Semitic views thanks to knee-jerk anti-Americanism.

Freemage
Freemage
5 years ago

That poor, poor raccoon….

On-topic:

Kale
January 5, 2016 at 12:19 pm
I dont understand why people are calling for cops to be aggressive. Thats a terrible idea that will end in death and ia just what these guys want.
Stay cool, stay back, & maybe have a damn conversation and theyll most likely get burned out and leave soon enough.

It’s not so much that we want cops to be aggressive (as in going in guns blazing), as that we are noting the difference in the reaction–if the cops had taken this sort of approach to the BLM protests, we wouldn’t have had any where near the sort of issues that came up.

Likewise, it’s frustrating that the cops aren’t talking about doing anything at all, really. Some passive approaches that could work would include setting up not only roadblocks but also some barricades on parts of land between the roads–even add some barbed wire, running around the whole place. Start calling it the “Malheur Federal Penitentiary” during press conferences, even. Use it as a training exercise for the National Guard–setting up a sufficient surrounding barrier in a wilderness setting would actually be a pretty good drill, I’d think. Make it clear to everyone that you are taking it ‘seriously’, without giving the goon squad any actual respect.

Tovius
Tovius
5 years ago

Apparently federal authorities are planning to cut power to them, so that’s a start.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/05/oregon-wildlife-militia-standoff-power-cut-off?CMP=share_btn_tw

dlouwe
dlouwe
5 years ago

@Pandapool

I was, like, “Ohhh nooooooo, poor baby *giggles*” because I’m a horrible person who likes seeing raccoons sad I guess.

Yeah, after writing it out I had a moment where I thought “Why exactly does this distraught raccoon make me so happy?” Maybe a raccoon stole my cotton candy when I was a baby, and this is just long brewing schadenfreude.

WeirwoodTreeHugger
WeirwoodTreeHugger
5 years ago

I don’t want them shot, I’m all for siege tactics being employed. Block the roads, cut off supplies and power. Show the world these are privileged and sheltered weenies who won’t last long on their own rather than the big tough survivalists they think they are.

I also think they should have to pay restitution for the costs this has incurred. Freeze and then garnish all their assets.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ pandapool

Thank you for that. Funnily enough I’ve just been discussing that video with a friend. She’s of the opinion that it was a good thing as raccoons shouldn’t eat sugar. He just looks so upset though.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

Quick question for our evolution experts.

Why do we have such strong empathy with animals and why do we find baby mammals especially so cute?

You’d think if anything we’d be geared to see them as a food source.

History Nerd
History Nerd
5 years ago

The usual strategy is to wait for them to run out of supplies and negotiate so they leave the building peacefully. Escalating the situation is almost always a bad idea.

mockingbird
mockingbird
5 years ago

@Alan – Big eyes, big heads, flatish faces.

Not an expert.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
5 years ago

Why do we have such strong empathy with animals and why do we find baby mammals especially so cute?

I’m not an evolution expert but it’s probably because they exhibit many of the same features as human babies. Big heads, big eyes, squeaky voices – human babies don’t have fur and stay cute through adulthood, though, so that’s where they fall short and animals are supreme, although for some reason other mammals have been known to care for human babies, too. Weirdos.

EDIT: Ninja’d by mockingbird. YnY

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

Ha, funnily enough I was going to exclude baby humans as an exception! They aren’t anywhere near as cute as, say, baby chimps or gorillas; or even baby Ewoks.

I wondered if it was a throwback to when we had fur, but baby heffalumps are cuteness overload and they’re not particularly furry.

Edited to add that I should point out I have nothing against human babies, I just think they’re more like mini Winston Churchills rather than cute.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
5 years ago

Fluffy Unicorn.

I’m sorry, but one of these nitwits is calling himself “Fluffy Unicorn”???

Having got that out of the way, when it comes to place names, I’ve always been a bit in awe of the old English habit of naming the local red light district “Gropec*nt Lane.” It’s just so unashamedly direct.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ sillybill

It’s probably just as we’ll most campfire ideas come to nought. The last thing you want is to end up buying a racehorse and then finding out they won’t let you call it “a Brown Horse” just to make the commentary interesting (moreso as the horse was black)

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

I swear, fluffy unicorn is familiar sounding. I wonder if he’s been written about here before. It wouldn’t surprise me.

dhag85
dhag85
5 years ago

The last few days I’ve had the song The Militia, by Gang Starr, Big Shugg and Freddie Foxxx stuck in my head, and couldn’t figure out why. Hadn’t thought of that song in probably 10 years. Now I finally figured out the connection. :p

I went to youtube to listen to it. Most recent comment says: “Ammon Bundys theme song”

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ dhag

If we’re doing music can I plug my mates’ band?

New Model Army ~ Christian Militia

It’s an old song so its theme of the rise of right wing politics in the US is probably a bit outdated.

Kat
Kat
5 years ago

@Alan Robertshaw
We sang this cheerfully at church school (half-days in Sunday school for a week or two in the summers):

I’m too young to march in the infantry
Ride in the calvary
Zoom over enemies
I’m too young to march in the infantry
But I’m in the Lord’s army

Actually, I loved church school. Everyone was nice. We got snacks and playtime and stories. Still, this song is kinda creepy.

littleknown
littleknown
5 years ago

@Kat

OMG, I remember that song. Except I think instead of “Zoom over enemies”, we sang “Shoot the artillery”.

Church was great as a kid. Then as I got older, everything got super serious, and it stopped being a fun place to hang out.

But yeah, that song. And about a half-dozen other creepy soldier-y children’s songs. (I was part of a decidedly pacifist denomination, too.)

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

Why do we have such strong empathy with animals and why do we find baby mammals especially so cute?

Mockingbird and Jackie already answered the latter half of your question, but as for the former half, the current theory’s that our empathy evolved in response to our partnership with early dogs, which would have begun for purely utilitarian reasons.

Anything more in-depth than that would be getting into evo psych territory, unfortunately. =P

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ kat

Wow, that’s quite a song. I like the “zoom” bit though. Although littleknown’s artillery version probably scans better.

The use of martial imagery in Christianity is interesting. Onward Christian Soldiers and all that. I wonder if it has anything to do with when Christianity was adopted by the Roman army?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ SHFC

There’s some interesting discussion about the origins of empathy and altruism in those documentaries about early humans. Arises from the discovery of an H.Erectus skull of an individual who survived many years despite having no teeth (you of all people will appreciate the implications of that)