Apparently the US media doesn’t really think it’s a big deal for a small army of heavily armed fanatics to take over government property in hopes of spurring some sort of armed revolution — if the armed fanatics in question are white guys.
Share information, insights, etc.
And, as you may already be aware, alt-right trolls are actively spreading misinformation about this standoff, so if you run across any of that please point it out here as well.
No trolls, MRAs, etc.
Hi, delurking because I live in Oregon. The Portland Oregonian has had by far the best coverage, with a lot of a background info available. Roundup here: Thank Ghu we still have a few local papers.
These guys definitely are trying to provoke a confrontation, and while I don’t think any of them really hope to be killed, I don’t think they’d mind being martyrs. The locals don’t want them around, and even the ranchers they’re supposedly there to support have disavowed them. They asked the local sheriff to give the ranchers “sanctuary,” and when he said no, they declared him “an enemy of the people,” and he started getting death threats. He must be worried about shooting breaking out, because the town has canceled school for the week.
This is what I was afraid of when the Feds backed down at the Bundy ranch.
Does anybody else hear dogs barking?
@SFHC – Wow, I hope the feds make an example of him and his 2 sons, and seize their assets. That’d learn ’em. Can they do that? I dunno what you do to treasonous swine in Oregon, but here, it used to be a hanging offense, and now it’s a life sentence.
@Katz – That makes their man-trum even more pathetic – they’ll have to come out with their tails between their legs by Tuesday lunchtime. *chuckle* I can’t imagine they have the convictions or the stamina to even go peckish, nevermind hold out a siege to the death.
@SFHC
I do.
Is that Sarah Palin I see holding a shiny whistle?
I can see them not being ISIS yet, but I can’t see them being better than looting during protestations.
And “yet” is an important word. If we let them, they can be worse.
I wish I could weaponize the norovirus that hit my husband, me, my friend’s daughter, and now her.
Seeing these guys wallowing in their own puke and diarrheic shit for a few days would give me a feeling of deep satisfaction.
@Nequam
No matter what the topic is, the conversation always returns to Paul Elam.
And Roosh.
@Kat
Bundy did say that they didn’t want to get any civilians involved. Of course, that’s just his words, and anything can certainly happen with martyrdom-seekers like these guys. Still, I think it’s a good sign that they aren’t actively seeking out hostages. That building was empty when they took it. All of that, and given that these guys aren’t affiliated with a movement that murders civilians (Islamic terrorism, for example), I think it’s reasonable to assume we won’t see any civilian casualties.
Honestly I couldn’t give two shits about the militia guys or the feds that have to deal with them, if that’s what else you’re worried about. My best friend goes on about the benefits of anarchism, and I guess it’s rubbing off on me a little bit.
@ Yacob – if they’re “willing to kill and be killed”, what do you think could happen to the law enforcement folks who are sent out to deal with them?
Where are the “Blue Lives Matter” brigade when they’re forced to deal with gun-waving Whites?
I’m glad that they haven’t taken hostages or gone out of their way to commit violence… so far.
I don’t know if any of them really want bloodshed, but they’re sure talking in a way that makes that seem like a thing they’re prepared to do.
The threat in itself is an act of terrorism.
@Yacob14
Well, if they’re not Muslims, I guess that they’re okay.
And an empty government building? That must mean that anyone can take it.
But let’s get real. These people are armed. Anything can happen. That’s not the way to try to get the government to listen to you.
Don’t blame your friend for the fact that you don’t care about government employees risking their lives to deal with these people.
I’m glad I now live in Cornwall where our terrorists are a bit rubbish:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/1378477/Only-one-man-turns-up-to-Cornwall-extremist-rally.html
LARPers are so embarrassing.
@Kat:
Oh, and it looks like these brave freedum fighters may be planning to use their children as meat shields:
http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/oregon-militia-members-now-bringing-their-children-into-the-compound
However, they are part of a movement that treats police, soldiers and other government employees as the representatives of an evil system, and therefore sees them as free game. Even if this attitude is usually expressed in assholish yet harmless behaviour, there have been cases of Sovereign Citizens murdering police officers for doing their jobs.
This leads in to what Bundy &co are seeking in this attack, which is a Waco-style shootout with government forces, ending in their martyrdom at the hands of the system they despise. They want to lend credence to their cause, and the fact that they get to kill police while doing it is an added bonus.
That’s why they’re exaggerating their numbers, taking their children with them and making threats of violence; all of it is an attempt to get the government to take the first shot, thus confirming their radical beliefs. As others have said before, the best way the state can handle this situation is by holding the siege: cut off their power and water and wait for them to lay down their arms.
Yes, the government should make thoses assholes surrender.
Or maybe they will starve to death, but I doubt it. They don’t seem anywhere near fanaticized enough to starve themselves to the end.
Bringing their kids? How and why are new people still being allowed to access the site?
Pete’s sake. I get why law enforcement would be reluctant to actively engage, but shouldn’t they be doing SOMETHING?
Comparing these people to Daesh is a little unfair. To Daesh, that is.
80%-90% of Daesh soldiers in Syria and Iraq are locals, usually from the towns they’re fighting in. The Bundy militia has had to import 100% of their people since the locals have been pretty wary of showing them support.
Daesh has an intelligent leader with an extreme and hateful ideology, but clear goals which he’s been pretty open about. The Bundy militia either have no idea what they’re doing, or don’t want to tell the rest of us what it is.
Daesh want to establish a caliphate on behalf of a man who wants to be caliph. The Bundy militia want to fight for a person who doesn’t want them to fight for him, and has been fairly vocal about not wanting their help.
Daesh has significant support from religious leaders around the world. The Bundy militia has had religious leaders back away from them, even those who have been urging something like this.
Daesh has had other extremist and terrorist groups pledge loyalty to them. The Bundy militia has seen other extremist groups distance themselves in order to avoid losing public sympathy.
Daesh uses social media extremely well. The Bundy militia… not so much.
In short, the Daesh are evil, but they’re good at being evil. They’re a professional organisation worth talking to seriously. The Bundy militia on the other hand are far from that. This is a clownshoes bunch of fantasists who are going to get themselves and other people hurt. Nothing more.
@ kootiepatra
Weirdly, the occupiers are inviting anyone (other than law enforcement) to pop into the compound and say hello, and the authorities are allowing that.
Seems an unusual situation for what is effectively an armed siege, but I suppose it avoids creating another flashpoint if people are held at a boundary.
I cannot think of a single European country where these people wouldn’t automatically be regarded as terrorists and where this notion wouldn’t be considered controversial.
And this goes double for the UK, where we’ve long been used to the notion of pale-skinned and clean-shaven terrorists. And not always with Irish accents – the Sons of Glendower had a charming hobby of setting fire to Welsh houses owned by English people in order to drive the English out of Wales, which is clearly open-and-shut terrorism regardless of the lack of actual corpses).
This must be one of those subtleties of USAian English that those of us elsewhere don’t understand:
The collective noun for armed black people is ‘thugs’
The collective noun for armed brown people is ‘terrorists’
The collective noun for armed white people is ‘militia’
“I cannot think of a single European country where these people wouldn’t automatically be regarded as terrorists and where this notion wouldn’t be considered controversial.”
Arguably, France, with conditions. Farmed without firearms have been known to do pretty fucked things in public office without real repercussions.
There were also the taximen who did “not quite violent but pretty fucked up” actions against Uber, including some who could have ended up with casualties.
Now, the “without firearm” is important, and it was more trying to force the governement to do something they wanted to do anyway than that.
Thanks for posting the Oregon Live article, @Inconstant Reader.
Did anyone see this article yet?
http://usuncut.com/news/5-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-oregon-militia-takeover/
I mean farmer, not farmed. Typo 😡
Hello.
Here, we have this article about this event.
The article does not speak about a building but about the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. Is it about a building in this parc ? (on another hand, is this the real name ? Because, as malheur means misfortune/bad luck, it is a bit strange).
Have a nice day.