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Open Thread: The “militia” takeover of a federal building in Oregon

Armed fanatics seeking controntation somehow not terrorists
Armed fanatics seeking confrontation, somehow not terrorists

Apparently the US media doesn’t really think it’s a big deal for a small army of heavily armed fanatics to take over government property in hopes of spurring some sort of armed revolution — if the armed fanatics in question are white guys.

Share information, insights, etc.

And, as you may already be aware, alt-right trolls are actively spreading misinformation about this standoff, so if you run across any of that please point it out here as well.

No trolls, MRAs, etc.

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Tovius
Tovius
4 years ago

@ Kat
Wow, that’s a creepy song.

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

I forgot to mention the accompanying movements (handy for dealing with small, wiggly children):

I’m too young to march in the infantry (stomp your feet)
Ride in the calvary (cavalry! Oops! Oops! Oops!) (hold the stirrups and bounce in the saddle)
Zoom over enemies (fly an imaginary paper airplane)
I’m too young to march in the infantry (stomp again)
But I’m in the Lord’s army

I’m so grateful to the nice people who ran these programs — probably as volunteers — so that I could have a fun summer experience. But the song is, shall we say, problematic.

Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ kat

Now you’ve added the movements I’m hooked. Where do I sign up? 🙂

katz
4 years ago

The version I learned said “I may never” instead of “I’m too young,” which strikes me as a significant improvement, since it sounds less like being in the army of God is something you do because you’re too young to enlist.

My version went:
I may never march in the infantry
Ride in the cavalry
Shoot the artillery
I may never fly over the enemy
But I’m in the Lord’s army (yes, sir!)

Catherwood
Catherwood
4 years ago

I can’t count how many people I’ve seen (not here, but, you know, AROUND) indignantly saying, after someone points out the disparity between the response here and to BLM, “What, you want the military to go in, guns blazing?”, as if the only way to achieve equivalence here is to kill ’em all.

Obviously, the desired equivalence is one of patience and peacefulness in both cases, not violence and bloodshed in both cases. It’s sad that for a lot of people, the default response to any threat, real or perceived, is violence.

littleknown
littleknown
4 years ago

Catherwood wrote:

Obviously, the desired equivalence is one of patience and peacefulness in both cases, not violence and bloodshed in both cases. It’s sad that for a lot of people, the default response to any threat, real or perceived, is violence.

Right?

No, we’re not saying that what happened to Tamir Rice is okay. What we’re saying is that if adult men can deny the legitimacy of the federal government, take over a federal building with a heavily-armed band of “patriots”, and make numerous statements about being ready to die, without getting shot; then maybe a 12-year-old boy playing with a toy gun in a park shouldn’t get shot within 2 seconds of the police showing up, the moment he turns to look at them.

We’re saying that if a militant group, with a similar ideology to Timothy McVeigh, which continues to press boundaries in violent standoffs, and which delivers political ultimatums at the point of the gun, can be dealt with without violence; then perhaps the police didn’t have to send tens of thousands of rounds of ammunition into the MOVE house in Philadelphia in 1985, nor bombed it, burning down the neighborhood.

We’re saying that those who say that of course these men should have a right to their bodies, even after repeatedly making demands and threats from behind the scopes of their rifles; should not decry the subsequent anger and unrest when black men, women, and children are denied their bodies for far less. And that instead, they should perhaps understand it.

Picturedragon
4 years ago

I remember that children’s song from summer camp, but our version was always “I don’t want to” and for second time around “I’m not going to” and “lord’s army” was used twice around then replaced with “I want to be friendly”. I wonder which came first and whether it has to do with the surrounding religious traditions or social groups or just current political or military activity. My summer cacamp was run by Episcopalians in the 80’s in rural MD, not sure if any of that is the relevant factor though.

Nora
Nora
4 years ago

These are not men. These are little boys playing cowboy. Did you see what they’re asking of their supporters? That they send them snacks. And these anti government protestors suggest the snacks be sent by U.S. mail.

Cut off the electricity and water and internet access. Wait them out. Don’t let anyone in and arrest anyone who wants to leave. Charge them with the most serious crime that can be proven. Hopefully, they will be convicted of some federal felony and then will no longer be legally allowed to own guns.

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

@Alan Robertshaw
Ha, ha! At my age — I don’t know about you — I have to content myself with heading over to a local folk music venue, where I can sing along.

@katz, @Picturedragon
What a difference a few words can make!

I went to church summer school for maybe three years, at two different churches. Both were near Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, in a conservative town. That said, my own church — which didn’t have a church summer school — was even more conservative than those two churches, as in John Birch Society conservative. Nice people doing good work. But the politics!

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

@littleknown, @Nora

Well said! Thank you.

weirwoodtreehugger
4 years ago

The Northern Paiute wants them to GTFO.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/06/oregon-militia-malheur-wildlife-refuge-paiute-indian-tribe-sacred-land

“Armed protesters don’t belong here,” she said. “By their actions they are desecrating one of our sacred traditional cultural properties. They are endangering our children, and the safety of our community, and they need to leave. Armed confrontation is not the answer.”

She said the sprawling wildlife reserve is part of the tribe’s ancestral territory and is protected under terms of an agreement signed with federal officials more than a century ago. The tribe still uses the refuge for sacred religious and cultural ceremonies, such as collecting plants for medicine and crafts.

“This land belonged to the Paiute people as wintering grounds long before the first settlers, ranchers and trappers ever arrived here,” Rodrique said, “We haven’t given up our rights to the land. We have protected sites there. We still use the land.”

And of course, Ammon Bundy responds with the height of white guy entitlement.

“I would like to see them be free of the federal government as well. They’re regulated by federal government very tightly and I think they have a right to be free like everybody else.”

Translation: “Let me explain to you why you’re wrong about your own culture and land.”

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
4 years ago

“I would like to see them be free of the federal government as well. They’re regulated by federal government very tightly and I think they have a right to be free like everybody else.”

Sounds to me like they’d like to be free of you, Ammon.

Typical white imperialist logic.

mockingbird
mockingbird
4 years ago

“I would like to see them be free of the federal government as well. They’re regulated by federal government very tightly and I think they have a right to be free like everybody else.”

Translation: “Let me explain to you why you’re wrong about your own culture and land.”

Alternate translation: I’d like to see them be free to try to use this land while we’re using it.
Let the marketplace decide!

mockingbird
mockingbird
4 years ago

@littleknown –

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berdache in a previous life
berdache in a previous life
4 years ago

The Decemberist lead singer has started the hashtag: #bundyeroticfanfic.

Found it at Joe. My. God.

http://www.joemygod.com/2016/01/06/how-about-some-oregon-militia-homoerotic-fan-fiction/

dlouwe
dlouwe
4 years ago

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/01/08/3737307/oregon-sheriff-meets-ammon-bundy-greets-him-with-handshake-not-handcuffs/

“Please leave Oregon. We won’t even arrest you.”

“Nah.”

“… hm.”

And so, faced with the fact that the protesters are white, have guns, and won’t peacefully leave, law enforcement is stumped as to how to proceed without putting any white people in danger.

Can we call this a “White People Standoff?”