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Roosh V Is Angry That the BBC Has Portrayed Him as the Monster He Is

BBC presenter Reggie Yates ponders Roosh V's dubious wisdom
BBC presenter Reggie Yates ponders Roosh V’s dubious wisdom

As many of you no doubt know, the BBC’s Reggie Yates recently did an hour-long documentary about the “manosphere,” paying particular attention to the rapey, repellent pickup guru Roosh Valizadeh. I’ve pasted the video below.

I have, well, lots of thoughts about it. It’s really pretty compelling, particularly the segments involving Roosh, which essentially offer him a nice sturdy — albeit figurative — rope with which to hang himself. Which he of course does. More on that, and Roosh’s response, below.

The non-Roosh segments are a mixed bag. Yates’ not terribly enlightening discussions with proudly reactionary GamerGate panderer and ostensible journalist Milo Yiannopoulos are pretty skippable.

More compelling is Yates’ interview with an infamous online bully who actually served a brief stint in jail for the threats he’d Tweeted to two prominent women, one of them a Member of Parliament. Their crime, in his eyes? They wanted to put Jane Austen’s face on the ten pound note. There’s something a bit chilling in the blase way the troll, a shaven-headed sad sack by the name of John Nimmo, recounts his vicious harassment campaign.

But most chilling of all were the segments with Roosh, which take up a hefty chunk of the program. Yates attended one of the little speeches Roosh gave on his “word tour” last summer, interviewing him afterwards; several months later he traveled to Poland for a followup.

Yates memorably introduces Roosh with a snippet from one of his videos in which he complains about how much effort it can take “to access [women’s] warm, moist cavity holes.”

Such a romantic!

We then get to see some snippets of Roosh’s mysterious speech, ostensibly on “The State of Man” in the world today. Nothing he says will be particularly surprising to anyone who’s familiar with his odious writings.

Still, seeing him present his ridiculous “philosophy” live highlights not just how noxious his ideas but also how incredibly, well, dumb they are. Roosh clearly wants to upgrade his status from that of a burned-out, rape-apologizing pickup artist to that of a great thinker. The only problem is that thinking isn’t something he does particularly well.

But it’s Yates’ interview with Roosh in Poland that really stands out.

In his hotel room before the interview, Yates reads out some of the more repellent and rapey things that Roosh has written.

“This isn’t about confidence,” he says, holding aloft one of Roosh’s slender volumes of dubious pickup wisdom. “30 Bangs isn’t about making young men feel as though they have value. This is about making young women feel as though they have none.”

Later, in Roosh’s apartment, Roosh waxes indignant about the public reaction to his infamous proposal to fight rape by making it legal. Roosh insists it was satire, but, as Yates tells him, it’s “quite hard to find the satirical angle to it.” (A point I and many others made at the time.)

And then, just moments after telling Yates that “I advocate for consensual sex,” he presents his own version of “no means no” in which no actually means pause for a moment before returning to doing whatever she said no to.

Yates asks him about a story in one of his books in which Roosh writes about penetrating a woman who is half asleep.

“Haven’t you done that?” he asks Yates. “When a girl is half asleep, when you’ve already had sex with her?”

Yates tells him that no, of course, he hasn’t. Roosh keeps digging his hole deeper, seeming genuinely puzzled that Yates isn’t nodding in agreement.

“So if you want to examine every instance, every thrust, maybe you can find something,” Roosh tells him. “But this can happen to every man.”

By “something,” Roosh seems to mean “an instance in which you put your penis in a woman without permission.”

In Roosh’s mind, evidently, rape (that’s really not rape), is something that happens to the rapist, not the woman he rapes; it’s the rapist who’s sort of the real victim.

On his blog, Roosh has denounced the documentary as a “hit piece,” suggesting that Yates — whom he describes as a “BBC host of questionable sexuality” — simply wasn’t man enough to really understand him or his comrades in the manosphere. (Yates isn’t actually gay, not that there’s anything wrong with that.)

By “hir[ing] a non-masculine man to report on masculinity,” Roosh argues, the BBC is doing the equivalent of

hir[ing] a carpenter to review an Italian opera. Besides a handful of exaggerated facial expressions made for the camera, the carpenter will not be able to analyze the opera on a level above that of even a grade-school trumpet player.

That’s a new one, I guess.

Roosh then goes on to declare that this “hit piece on the manosphere” is actually a giant victory for him, because

it gets my ideas across to those who have yet to see it. Even if 0.1% of people who watched the BBC documentary become readers of mine, it’s still a huge win, since doing it only cost me a couple hours of time. …

The BBC program tried to paint me as a criminal, but instead I gained more fans and sold more books. As long as my name exits the mouth of my enemies, I win, and I will continue to win.

Didn’t Charlie Sheen once say something similar?

I hate to have to tell you this, Roosh, but no, you’re really not winning at all. Repulsing the general public with your repugnant ideas is not a victory. Every thought of yours that you put on the internet makes ever clearer what a huge loser you are.

Here’s the documentary. For anyone who doesn’t have time to watch the whole thing, I’ve attached a second video below that features nothing but the segments featuring Roosh.

 

 

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Cerberus
5 years ago

But you guyssssss, we only call men manginas for being feminists, not for being women. It’s totes different… Which is why we compare men we don’t like, men who are feminists to genitalia frequently associated with women and expect this to discredit and dismiss them. Because it’s implying feminist men are equatable to women and that that is a bad thing.

What could possibly be misogynistic about that? It’s not like we use it against feminine men… We just call those ones f**s. Totes different.

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
5 years ago

@WWTH,

You’re right in theory. But I think we all know that if OTD legit cleaned the misogynistic MRAs out of the MRM house, he’d find himself in an empty house.

It’s that sort of mental housekeeping that is needed in order to come to truth, i think! We all have terrible ideas, and usually we’ve got to be slapped in the face with their consequences to change. This sort of “everyone is terrible!” realization is powerful disinfectant.

What do you think, OTD? Up to the challenge?

orange tango drinker
orange tango drinker
5 years ago

By the way, for anybody who missed the last time Kool-Aid Drinker mentioned Skeptorr, Dhag took the time to check out his videos. Let’s just say I see a WHTM post of his own in the near future. You know, because of all the rape apologia, murder advocacy (!!!) and violent racism.

okay dhag talked about two videos, the first one I agree he was an asshole and I hadn’t seen that video before. I don’t agree it was rape apologia, his point was that being stopped from ever seeing your children is worse than being raped and that anybody would choose being raped over not seeing their kids again. I think he made some bad analogies but nothing that came close to saying rape being justified because of child support. He talked about the idea of never seeing your kids again but still being forced to pay child support that and the prospect of being locked up if you cant pay. Skeptorr is a happily married, wealthy man with several daughters from what he has said but he used anecdotal experience from his friends and also talked about a particular law in Spain concerning allegations of domestic violence.

There was no murder advocacy, the second video was a response to some statements by Swedish politicians. In the past few months in Israel there have been a number of incidents of terrorists running into crowds of people in broad daylight and stabbing a bunch of random people until they are shot by the police. These people WANTED to be shot dead by the police which is why they always did this in front of police officers, their intention to stab as many people as they could before getting shot dead by the cops and becoming “martyred”.

In some of these cases the police managed to arrest the stabbers without shooting them but most of the time the cops shot them dead, which makes perfect sense. If you are a cop and you see someone running around a crowd stabbing random people then it makes sense to shoot them dead. If that was America then none of them would have been arrested and all of em would have been shot. Just look at all the cases of un armed black men being shot dead for bullshit reasons.

Some Swedish politicians had said the cops were wrong to shoot these stabbers dead and called it “extra judicial executions” so Skeptorr talked about how they did what anybody should do if you got a gun and you witness that. These clips that dhag mention were ALL from these recent stab attacks not random clips unrelated to this. He described what you should do if you have a gun and you witness one of these incidents, dhag made it sound bloodthirsty but he was talking about how the cops were justified.

He made a flippant comment about Syrians living in Sweden coming back from fighting for ISIS and attacking people back in Sweden but on the screen he showed what he was talking about from news articles. The Swedish government is aware of Syrians and other muslims living in Sweden, going to Syria to fight for ISIS and then allowing these people back into the country and proposing that these people should be given priority for public jobs to deradicalise and integrate them which is a dangerous idea. Anybody who goes to join ISIS which we all know is an evil cult of mass murder and mass rape should never be allowed back into a county, even if they are natural born citzens

orange tango drinker
orange tango drinker
5 years ago

OTD, can you please clarify, first you said the word ‘mangina’ is silly but then you justified it because it was being used against men who identified as feminist, with a strong implication that identifying as feminist made them traitors to their sex. It is a misogynist slur, and you seem to be saying its use is acceptable in some cases, unless I’m misunderstanding.

Sorry i didn’t mean to say its use is ever acceptable, I don’t use the term, I just meant that it is not used by MRAs as a term for feminine men, which I sometimes see feminists say, that is why I used the example of the feminist UFC fighter who got called a mangina on MRA websites

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

If OTD comes back, I’d like to know what he thinks about feminism. Because for all the talk he’s done here, he’s made everything exclusively about MRAs. Who is or isn’t one. Who’s associated with who. I don’t believe he’s actually told us what his own ideology is. We know he opposes circumcision. That’s it.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

Anybody who goes to join ISIS which we all know is an evil cult of mass murder and mass rape …

So’s the manosphere.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

I’m just going to make this really easy for everyone and paste in Dhag’s post from the other thread.

Let’s start with Spinosaurus Kin. Typing in the URL. Clicking Videos. Scrolling through. Let’s see… “#femISIS” sounds pretty bad. I wonder what that’s about. A video titled “A Cunt for @HammerOfThorium”. And it’s only 4 seconds long! Click. Okay, he literally just says the word “cunt” at the camera. Weird. Let’s go back to the Videos page. Oh, here’s another video: “10 Reasons Why Jenny McDermott Is a Cunt”. Click. In this video, clips of Jenny McDermott (I assume?) talking about MRAs are briefly interrupted by Spinosaurus Kin calling her a cunt repeatedly.

OTD’s excuse for this is that it’s okay for Australian men to call women misogynistic slurs for some reason.

I don’t know why, but I’m not terribly optimistic about those other people he cited in this thread as non-misogynist MRAs.

Okay, I’m done with this guy. Let’s try SkepTorr instead.

Typing in the URL. Clicking Videos. Let’s try this one: “Is Rape The Worst Crime?” This turns out to be an instructional video where SkepTorr suggests you should terrorize women by asking them if they would rather be raped or murdered, just to “prove” that murder is worse. Here’s a quote from the video:

When you have a woman who has young children which she loves more than anything in the world, and would give her life for, what would she prefer: to be raped, or suddenly, for no reason, the police will barge into her house, take her children away from her, and she would never be able to see them again. Her kids would grow up believing that their mother is a monster, as they would be told as such. She would never, ever, be able to come in contact with them, and if she tries, she will go to prison. On top of that, her assets will be taken away from her, and she will be thrown to the street. And for the following two decades, she will need to pay large sums of money each month. Otherwise she will go to prison. And while she spends time in prison, her debt will grow. Having to choose one of these options, which one do you think she will take? Losing her kids forever, and becoming a financial slave for many years? Or to be raped? […] A mother would choose rape over the prospect of never seeing her kids again, and live a life of financial slavery. […] She would choose rape on a daily basis, just to keep her children. So, yes, there’s a crime worse than rape. […] However, unlike rape, this crime is committed every day, mostly, if not only, against men. And not only is it not illegal, but it’s promoted by law.

In other words, women deserve to be raped because child support.

This is what OTD dismissed as a bad analogy. He can’t tell the difference between a bad but well meaning analogy and overt misogyny. Anyone who thinks being required to pay a few hundred dollars a month to keep your child alive is worse than being repeatedly raped is a misogynist and a rape apologist.

Mitchel
5 years ago

I’ve always been puzzled as to how he has any followers? I can’t think of any sensible person I know who would be impressed by him. The manosphere should be called the losersphere!

isidore13
isidore13
5 years ago

OTD also seems to take it as read that this is what all custody removal is like, when in fact I can’t actually think of any divorce-based custody removal where “police barge into (anyone’s) house” “for no reason”. Additionally, those divorce custody removals in which the parent (yeah, not always the dad) would “go to prison” if they ever tried to contact them are never “for no reason”, they are because THAT IS WHAT THE COURT DECIDED WAS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CHILDREN. In other words, the parent losing custody and contact was proven in court to be so harmful to the welfare and well-being of their child that all contact must be cutoff.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

I still don’t care to watch any of these guys’ videos but I did take a peek at Felfop Returns’ twitter. He likes a bunch of videos with titles like “the Young Turks are dishonest cunts” and “post-feminist parasitic women seek rich men to pay for them” and “do bimbos even have brains?” He also retweeted something that appeared to be from an anti-choice account because it used the term “unborn baby” to describe a fetus. So that guy isn’t terribly promising. https://twitter.com/felfop

https://twitter.com/therynmeyer
Theryn Meyer appears to be a trans woman who thinks other trans women should be okay with transphobia. She retweeted someone who retweeted our old friend Milo bragging about being offensive. She said she has no problems with TERFS. So, yeah. Internalized misogyny and internalized transphobia all wrapped up in one!

I’ve about had my fill of researching MRAs now. If others want to take on the other ones he listed, cool. If not. I understand. Life is too short to watch MRAs on YouTube!

orange tango drinker
orange tango drinker
5 years ago

OTD also seems to take it as read that this is what all custody removal is like, when in fact I can’t actually think of any divorce-based custody removal where “police barge into (anyone’s) house” “for no reason”. Additionally, those divorce custody removals in which the parent (yeah, not always the dad) would “go to prison” if they ever tried to contact them are never “for no reason”, they are because THAT IS WHAT THE COURT DECIDED WAS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CHILDREN. In other words, the parent losing custody and contact was proven in court to be so harmful to the welfare and well-being of their child that all contact must be cutoff.

no I didn’t take it as read. I admit I don’t know much about situations like these. I admit that was a shit video. He was talking about the law in Spain though and I did not bother looking into what law he was talking about. I only found that video because of it being linked to me from here but it is still going far too far to call it pro rape or advocating rape, that is just outrageous, he didn’t say anything close to that.

Drezden
Drezden
5 years ago

I’ve been having a bad time of it lately and was refraining from responding because of it, but you know what, fuck that.

Being forced to choose between being raped and never seeing your children again isn’t some god damned hypothetical for women. It happens far too often.

So fuck you and your “bad analogy” OTD.

orange tango drinker
orange tango drinker
5 years ago

OTD’s excuse for this is that it’s okay for Australian men to call women misogynistic slurs for some reason.

no, bane666au is the australian guy, he made the posters with the c word. i wasn’t aware of those posters before they were linked to me on the other thread. I said that Australians don’t use the c word in the same way, i thought it was more of a light hearted insult over there. Some Australians replied and told me I was talking crap and i’m not going to argue with that because i’ve never been there. But regardless of that, these posters were from 2 years ago, I only starting watching him when he started the “propaganda of toxic feminism” series in summer 2014. I’ve never seen seen him talk in a sexist way and he has talked to feminists a lot recently and has always been polite and friendly.

The video by Spinosauruskin is an old one that I wasn’t aware of before it was linked. Spino has only recently turned 18 so I think in that old video he was immature and he doesn’t talk in that manner since I have been following him. It was also a light hearted video anyway not an angry one. Jenny’s video was “10 reasons why feminists should have sex with MRAs” but obviously a comedy video mocking MRAs, his reply “10 reasons jenny is a cunt” was also a comedy video mocking her in response. Jenny also uses the C word at MRAs and for feminists who she doesn’t like btw.

This is what OTD dismissed as a bad analogy. He can’t tell the difference between a bad but well meaning analogy and overt misogyny. Anyone who thinks being required to pay a few hundred dollars a month to keep your child alive is worse than being repeatedly raped is a misogynist and a rape apologist.

He was talking about never seeing your kids again, the bit about also paying child support was just an add on but the main thing was never seeing your kids again being worse than being raped.

isidore13
isidore13
5 years ago

OTD, there is a difference between calling something pro-rape and calling someone a rape apologist. Skeptorr was saying that losing your children in a divorce because of your own bad actions is *worse* than being raped, that being raped is *preferable* to your own actions meaning you can’t see your children again. That is rape apologia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologia it’s number 3 on the list there under Benoit’s Postures.

orange tango drinker
orange tango drinker
5 years ago

Theryn Meyer appears to be a trans woman who thinks other trans women should be okay with transphobia. She retweeted someone who retweeted our old friend Milo bragging about being offensive. She said she has no problems with TERFS. So, yeah. Internalized misogyny and internalized transphobia all wrapped up in one!

where has she said she has no problem with TERFS?

orange tango drinker
orange tango drinker
5 years ago

OTD, there is a difference between calling something pro-rape and calling someone a rape apologist. Skeptorr was saying that losing your children in a divorce because of your own bad actions is *worse* than being raped, that being raped is *preferable* to your own actions meaning you can’t see your children again. That is rape apologia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologia it’s number 3 on the list there under Benoit’s Postures.

He didn’t say about your own bad actions though. He said that the law in Spain allows that to happen based on an accusation alone.

isidore13
isidore13
5 years ago

So the excuse for him spouting rape apologist bullshit is that he made assumptions based in his misogyny and did no research about the actual laws in Spain before posting his rant about it? Not a great excuse, OTD.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Family courts do not just decide on a whim to never let fathers see their children again. Even parents who have lost primary custody still get visitation. There are cases when a woman was impregnated by rape and the rapist father still gets some parental rights! If the court makes that decision, it’s usually because the father has been extremely abusive. Even abusive fathers sometimes get supervised visits BTW. To compare this to someone just breaking into a random woman’s house and giving her the option of losing her kids and being raped repeatedly is absolutely fucking ridiculous. It shows just how little regard he has for the trauma of rape and for rape victims. It’s disgusting and defending it even tacitly by nit picking about the term “rape apologia” is fucking disgusting too.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

where has she said she has no problem with TERFS?

Is there some reason you’re incapable of clinking on the link to her twitter an scrolling down? Haven’t we done enough looking up stuff for you?

Cerberus
5 years ago

weirwoodtreehugger-

But guyyyyyyys, doing work is hard and beneath manly men. If women don’t want to be hated, they should do all the infinite hard work of researching and debunking bullshit claims so that I as the man can just dismiss it with some weak ass shit that lets me believe what I currently believe and not have to change in any way whatsoever.

But seriously, given our pet sealion’s current main argument is “well, things made a year or two ago must be completely unrelated to the new stuff, so I’m gonna still love the new stuff and assume it’s non-misogynistic, even if it’s coming from the same anti-feminist space as all the other misogynist shit they’ve made in the recent past”, I think we can be safely assured that work or actual thought are not really things he is at all prepared to do.

HeinzD
HeinzD
5 years ago

OTD: So, you recommend videoes from people that you say are good examples of MRAs but you don’t vet them? If I’m recommending to someone to read up on Gloria Steinem, I make sure they understand that in the 70s and 80s she said some horrible things about Trans people. I make sure I know the history of people I’m recommending that people read (or watch).

Here’s the bigger problem: a lot of your responses contain phrases like ‘I didn’t know’ or ‘they aren’t like that anymore’. You come across as amazingly naive or a cherry picking troll at worst.

We aren’t here to educate you on feminism and on why the people you like are harmful to men and women alike. That is your job should you want to do it. Go find a beginner’s website or book and learn yourself.

It’s also not our job to vet your sources. You need to do that so you can find out why people see them as awful examples of human beings.

You seem to have this need for compartmentalization (see arguments about who’s an MRA and who belongs to which faction of AVfM) and that’s fine if you choose to believe that there is no overlap in anything at anytime. That’s even fine in internet arguing. But it’s not fine in real life when so many things are in shades of grey. Please try to see how arguing in pedantics and semantics isn’t trying to come to an agreement about anything other than definitions of things.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

I might as well check out the last two guys on his list (without actually watching any of their videos, because fuck no).

Billy Clement: #GamerGater and ThunderD00fus fan who’s been taking part in the harassment against LaughingWitch.

Tyler Preston: #GamerGater, Islamophobe and Dawkins/Hitchens fan who approvingly retweets “White genocide” stuff despite being black. Looks like we have some internalised racism to go with the internalised misogyny and internalised transphobia.

Is anybody surprised? Aside from at there being a black #Gater who isn’t just a sockpuppet, I mean?

Cerberus
5 years ago

But for said whinemonger:

https://twitter.com/TherynMeyer/status/676209967641178112

“I have no problem w/ TERFs. By all means, count me out of ur viciously toxic ideology ”

Oh, and in case you thought this was a sarcastic response to a TERF, the “toxic ideology” she is responding to here is modern feminist efforts to correct transphobia.

The tweet she is responding to:
https://twitter.com/creepygrrl/status/676190375409766400

“I think for the most part young feminists are trying to undo the TERFism of our predecessors ha”

Which I’ll also note wasn’t even talking to Theryn in the first place, but was an unfortunate soul who made the “mistake” of having a conversation with a trans game developer who the Gators have decided is triple Satan because she’s a trans woman who dares be in “their” gaming industry.

Oh, did I mention she was a Gator, you know that misogynist hate mob who has been harassing women in gaming for over a year now in response to an abuser asking them to in order to keep hurting an ex of his? Cause that seems relevant right about now.

Oh, and since our lovely lion of the sea is currently trying out a “all that problematic stuff was from their past and I’m sure they are all better now” tactic, I also want to note that this particular tweet is from December 13, literally 11 days ago.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
5 years ago

no, bane666au is the australian guy, he made the posters with the c word. i wasn’t aware of those posters before they were linked to me on the other thread.

MRAs on youtube I like; Alison Tieman, Billy Clement, Theadviseshowtv, Theryn Meyer, Tyler Preston, Felfop returns, skeptorr, Bane666au

I think you need to watch more than just one or two videos of someone’s before you say you like them. Maybe even just browse through their videos and read the titles. Or actually go to their YouTube pages.

Just suggestions.

orange tango drinker
orange tango drinker
5 years ago

Is there some reason you’re incapable of clinking on the link to her twitter an scrolling down? Haven’t we done enough looking up stuff for you?

I follow her on twitter and watch her videos. I haven’t seen any pro TERF stuff. I think she is awesome. The woman who retweeted Milo is also a trans woman. Some trans women like Milo.

Theryn has done lots of hard work for the cause of mens issues, setting up the mens issues group at her university and organizing all kinds of interesting and important events about things like male suicide and missing and murdered aboriginal men.

Cerberus
5 years ago

OTD-

*Ahem*

*Point up two comments*

Already saw your attempted dodge coming and saved you the effort of having to actually try.

orange tango drinker
orange tango drinker
5 years ago

I think you need to watch more than just one or two videos of someone’s before you say you like them. Maybe even just browse through their videos and read the titles. Or actually go to their YouTube pages.

i watched plenty of his videos, the posters were something he did 2 years ago on facebook not on youtube. I only recently started following his facebook page

dhag85
dhag85
5 years ago

I don’t have the energy to go look through all these videos on Christmas Eve. But I checked out Theryn Meyer and Billy Clement, and I’m not impressed. Same bad arguments we’ve seen over and over. Same lack of understanding of basic concepts.

LG.
LG.
5 years ago

Ah, but 11 days ago is TOTALLY “the past.” Sheesh, why can’t you let anything go? People change, if you would just give them infinite chances with every new second that passes.

sevenofmine
sevenofmine
5 years ago

Dudelogik = Uncritically believe whatever is most comfortable for you and then, when challenged, admit that you didn’t fact check any of it. Go back to your douchebro friends and have a good chortle about how dogmatic feminists are.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Apparently if OTD doesn’t notice something, it doesn’t exist, it doesn’t matter, and he doesn’t need to worry about it.

http://i52.tinypic.com/332qz6h.jpg

Cerberus
5 years ago

LG-

I know, I know. I’m being so so unfair.

After all, I’ve changed so much in the last 11 days, it’s been downright spiritual. I used to have fins, but now I’m running on land fighting seawitches for my voice, it’s fucking magical.

/sarcasm

orange tango drinker
orange tango drinker
5 years ago

theryn explains why she has no problem with terfs

https://twitter.com/TherynMeyer/status/680108336889511936

Cerberus
5 years ago

sevenofmine-

It’s more sciencey because they thought it while being cisdudes with cisdude penises and therefore are 100% logical doubleplus good.

I mean, why do you need the “FEELS” of “facts” when you can just assume what you’ve always assumed, dismiss any evidence to the contrary and listen to only things that continue to support your conspiracy theory worldview of how the world works.

And that leads to an interesting aspect to all of “manlogik” TM.

That it’s all about their fear of knowing less than a woman. If a woman knows something more than a man does. If things like sexism are true and there are life experiences women know more about than most men, then there could be moments where men would be expected to turn to women as an authority on a subject.

And to the insecure toxic masculinity chasers, this is the most emasculating act anyone can ever do ever.

So instead, there’s this chosen ignorance, defended with self-delusion and excuses all to avoid the terrible reality that all men don’t automatically know more than all women by virtue of being men and the even more terrible reality that because they are privileged, there may in fact be things they know less about than any given marginalized individual simply because they never had to learn about it to fully operate in modern society.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
5 years ago

i watched plenty of his videos, the posters were something he did 2 years ago on facebook not on youtube. I only recently started following his facebook page

I understand, but also

http://i.imgur.com/zEjPkg1.jpg

Please tell this guy you can upload videos longer than 15 minutes now. Been like that for several years.

theryn explains why she has no problem with terfs

I don’t need to click that link to tell you that her telling everyone why she has no problem with TERFs means shit because everyone should have a problem with TERFs.

Fuck TERFs.

They aren’t excluding her from feminism, they don’t even think of her as a woman. That’s why everyone should have a problem with fucking TERFs!

Something tells me she’s an MRA for the same reason some trans men are TERFs. 😐

Ellesar
Ellesar
5 years ago

I know that the discussion has moved away from the Yate’s docu, but I want to make a few comments on it.

It is lightweight because it is a BBC3 programme. BBC3 is primarily focused on ‘youth’ programming.

Yates is never going to do a hard hitting report – I appreciate the ‘give them the rope’ approach – it engaged one of my sons.

I don’t think it will be lost on anyone that Roosh’s pathetic attempt to discredit Yates is simply proof of his homophobia as well as his far right misogyny.

(The MGTOW’s,conspicuous by their absence and their racism, prove their extraordinary similarity to PUA’s by focusing on the sexual use of women – their focus is on a commercial exchange, rather than a process of manipulation and coercion, but clearly no more healthy.)

Cerberus
5 years ago

OTD-

Inventive dodge.

Shame about your words here then:

where has she said she has no problem with TERFS?

And also here:

I follow her on twitter and watch her videos. I haven’t seen any pro TERF stuff.

But I get it, 11 minutes was so very long ago and you were a different person back then. So much younger and more ignorant. And you’ve really made a lot of progress since then and are really worth listening to.

Hey, listen, I got a question for you since I’ve done you the favor of saving you the terrible fate of clicking a link or having to scroll up to see your words on this very thread. And it is:

You know you’re being intellectually dishonest. We know you’re being intellectually dishonest. So why is it important to you that we believe you’re not being intellectually dishonest?

Is it because you want to feel like you “tricked those dumb feminists” in order to keep deluding yourself about your mental superiority? Is it because this practiced ignorance is part of an elaborate self-defense mechanism in your mind protecting you from realizing that you fell for a hate group? Is it because you just don’t like being wrong or thought of like an idiot?

And I’m genuinely curious here, because frankly, there’s nothing much we can gain from you, but there’s a lot we can gain analyzing you. Seeing how someone becomes a willing apologist for hate groups and for bigotry. How one practices turning a blind eye to hate. That has real political value.

So indulge me, sea lion, if you will.

newbie
newbie
5 years ago

Cerberus:

Yes, not stabbing the object of your hate during a pre-arranged, public and recorded face-to-face meeting must mean there is no hate. Obvs.

OTD:

“Nice debunking” really isn’t when it’s based on tendentious and/or hateful lies, despite being insult-free.

Any inhumane and hateful message can be delivered calmly and ‘rationally,’ or even with a smile. Please do not confuse form with substance.

Cerberus
5 years ago

Pandapool-

There could also be a clinging to privilege angle. It really does suck coming out and getting hit with all the crap women get put through and trans people get put through all at once. The total loss of privilege.

So, I can see the attraction for someone scared to cling to a hate movement and making soft noises that you aren’t like all those other mean trans people out there, you’re good and hate all the right people, even others like you, if they’ll just give you a slight reprieve on ending up with all the social hits of being a woman all at once.

It’s a similar draw to that which draws FeMRAs, but with extra fearing being murdered by the exact type of people in the hate movement.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

On the bright side, this list of lesser-known MRAs that Kool-Aid’s given to us should be enough Dark Lord fodder for the next three months. Seriously, it’s like Bertie Bott’s Every Flavour Bigotry.

Cerberus
5 years ago

newbie-

Yeah. Duh.

I mean, everyone else finds it super hard to not stab marginalized group members, right? Like it takes effort to be cordial and not outright murder or assault them when interacting for a pre-arranged “look how civil and nice we are” meeting?

That’s what non-hate group members struggle with right?

Fuck, it’s just Roosh’s “oh haven’t all men raped at least once in their lives” bullshit repeated ad nauseum. Haters can’t believe that everyone who shares their identity doesn’t think exactly like them and that these monstrous urges in their heads are not what non-haters struggle with at all.

Ellesar-

Yeah, I definitely see that. It’s also the case that that affable “british guy just trying to understand” gets him in with a lot of awful groups and allows him to expose them a lot more than others would be. After all, he was invited to Roosh’s home and got to attend that closed-door Roosh meeting and get some video of it. And in another video, he gets really deep into the Russian neo-fascist movement.

And at the end of the day, he gets across a lot of good strong main points, even if it is under the guise of someone “just trying to understand”.

Honestly, it’s a similar pose I use sometimes when educating a student on why something is a slur. Oh gosh geewilikers, I can see how that could be funny, but I’m just so troubled by the context of that word. Let me share it with you so you can see why I’m so gosh darn troubled. Works a lot better than just saying the word is bad and they should knock it off.

Cerberus
5 years ago

SFHC-

Yup. Also really telling how many on the list are Gators. I mean, if you want to claim you only follow the non-harassing non-bigoted members o your hate group, maybe don’t cite people actively involved in a year plus long harassment campaign based on bigotry and literal attempts to “cleanse” a hobby of everyone who isn’t white, male, cis, and anti-feminist.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
5 years ago

@Cerberus

That’s true, but it takes a wonderfully self-centered individual to throw everyone else under the bus while clinging to the bumper, especially when that bus is filled with people who likely don’t actually respect your gender identity and likely think you’re, to put it lightly, “mentally unwell”.

That’s why we should ride the Down with Cis bus.

I say, dragging Tumblr memes onto this website, like the joke I am. I just couldn’t resist making it since I made the bus metaphor. Sorry everyone. Sorry. I’ll just enjoy my miso soup in silence.

Moocow
Moocow
5 years ago

Speaking of dodging. I’m shocked – shocked! – to see that OTD has been awfully quiet about Alison Tieman, the supposedly ‘decent MRA’, declaring that women gaining the right to vote was an act of ‘female supremacy’

Cerberus
5 years ago

Pandapool-

Oh, I can see it, doesn’t mean I for one second respect it. It’s a cowardly delusion and the hate group doesn’t even think of them as people, merely a tool to hide behind and pretend that vaguely tolerating one marginalized group member as long as they hate themselves as much as they do makes them somehow not bigoted.

We trans women get hit with a lot of shit, especially when we come out. But that means we need to fight to change that, not cling to a delusion and a fantasy of ever being respected by people who despise us and want us to die.

Cerberus
5 years ago

Moocow-

I know. It seems like something he’d really care about debunking what with being such a big fan of how not bigoted she is.

Ya know what? I’m starting to suspect he may not care as much about intellectual honesty as he first led on.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
5 years ago

We trans women get hit with a lot of shit, especially when we come out. But that means we need to fight to change that, not cling to a delusion and a fantasy of ever being respected by people who despise us and want us to die.

*gently says “right on” while slipping a spoonful of soup*

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

Ya know what? I’m starting to suspect he may not care as much about intellectual honesty as he first led on.

The acidic sarcasm just ate through my monitor and I love it.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
5 years ago

I find it telling that we’re pointing out all the terrible misogynist things his favourite MRAs have been doing, and instead of him going “oh dear I didn’t realise they were like that, guess I should re-evaluate my opinion of them” he goes “oh well I didn’t realise they did those things but they’re not all bad okay? Here’s a couple of examples where they weren’t absolute fuckwits, so they must be alright after all.”

SiegelEagle
SiegelEagle
5 years ago

I love how much the MRA/MGTOW/RedPill groups have imploded over this documentary.

Let’s see: Reggie gave interview subjects plenty of space to make their claims, defend their stances, and speak their beliefs. Then they’re mad because they came off poorly as a result?

And they whine about the fact that the documentary didn’t speak to issues of child custody or circumcision when the interview subjects failed to bring it up? Almost as though they don’t really care about those things and just want to yell about women being fat?

It’s like they’re so close to figuring it out, and then they fall at the last hurdle.