As many of you no doubt know, the BBC’s Reggie Yates recently did an hour-long documentary about the “manosphere,” paying particular attention to the rapey, repellent pickup guru Roosh Valizadeh. I’ve pasted the video below.
I have, well, lots of thoughts about it. It’s really pretty compelling, particularly the segments involving Roosh, which essentially offer him a nice sturdy — albeit figurative — rope with which to hang himself. Which he of course does. More on that, and Roosh’s response, below.
The non-Roosh segments are a mixed bag. Yates’ not terribly enlightening discussions with proudly reactionary GamerGate panderer and ostensible journalist Milo Yiannopoulos are pretty skippable.
More compelling is Yates’ interview with an infamous online bully who actually served a brief stint in jail for the threats he’d Tweeted to two prominent women, one of them a Member of Parliament. Their crime, in his eyes? They wanted to put Jane Austen’s face on the ten pound note. There’s something a bit chilling in the blase way the troll, a shaven-headed sad sack by the name of John Nimmo, recounts his vicious harassment campaign.
But most chilling of all were the segments with Roosh, which take up a hefty chunk of the program. Yates attended one of the little speeches Roosh gave on his “word tour” last summer, interviewing him afterwards; several months later he traveled to Poland for a followup.
Yates memorably introduces Roosh with a snippet from one of his videos in which he complains about how much effort it can take “to access [women’s] warm, moist cavity holes.”
Such a romantic!
We then get to see some snippets of Roosh’s mysterious speech, ostensibly on “The State of Man” in the world today. Nothing he says will be particularly surprising to anyone who’s familiar with his odious writings.
Still, seeing him present his ridiculous “philosophy” live highlights not just how noxious his ideas but also how incredibly, well, dumb they are. Roosh clearly wants to upgrade his status from that of a burned-out, rape-apologizing pickup artist to that of a great thinker. The only problem is that thinking isn’t something he does particularly well.
But it’s Yates’ interview with Roosh in Poland that really stands out.
In his hotel room before the interview, Yates reads out some of the more repellent and rapey things that Roosh has written.
“This isn’t about confidence,” he says, holding aloft one of Roosh’s slender volumes of dubious pickup wisdom. “30 Bangs isn’t about making young men feel as though they have value. This is about making young women feel as though they have none.”
Later, in Roosh’s apartment, Roosh waxes indignant about the public reaction to his infamous proposal to fight rape by making it legal. Roosh insists it was satire, but, as Yates tells him, it’s “quite hard to find the satirical angle to it.” (A point I and many others made at the time.)
And then, just moments after telling Yates that “I advocate for consensual sex,” he presents his own version of “no means no” in which no actually means pause for a moment before returning to doing whatever she said no to.
Yates asks him about a story in one of his books in which Roosh writes about penetrating a woman who is half asleep.
“Haven’t you done that?” he asks Yates. “When a girl is half asleep, when you’ve already had sex with her?”
Yates tells him that no, of course, he hasn’t. Roosh keeps digging his hole deeper, seeming genuinely puzzled that Yates isn’t nodding in agreement.
“So if you want to examine every instance, every thrust, maybe you can find something,” Roosh tells him. “But this can happen to every man.”
By “something,” Roosh seems to mean “an instance in which you put your penis in a woman without permission.”
In Roosh’s mind, evidently, rape (that’s really not rape), is something that happens to the rapist, not the woman he rapes; it’s the rapist who’s sort of the real victim.
On his blog, Roosh has denounced the documentary as a “hit piece,” suggesting that Yates — whom he describes as a “BBC host of questionable sexuality” — simply wasn’t man enough to really understand him or his comrades in the manosphere. (Yates isn’t actually gay, not that there’s anything wrong with that.)
By “hir[ing] a non-masculine man to report on masculinity,” Roosh argues, the BBC is doing the equivalent of
hir[ing] a carpenter to review an Italian opera. Besides a handful of exaggerated facial expressions made for the camera, the carpenter will not be able to analyze the opera on a level above that of even a grade-school trumpet player.
That’s a new one, I guess.
Roosh then goes on to declare that this “hit piece on the manosphere” is actually a giant victory for him, because
it gets my ideas across to those who have yet to see it. Even if 0.1% of people who watched the BBC documentary become readers of mine, it’s still a huge win, since doing it only cost me a couple hours of time. …
The BBC program tried to paint me as a criminal, but instead I gained more fans and sold more books. As long as my name exits the mouth of my enemies, I win, and I will continue to win.
Didn’t Charlie Sheen once say something similar?
I hate to have to tell you this, Roosh, but no, you’re really not winning at all. Repulsing the general public with your repugnant ideas is not a victory. Every thought of yours that you put on the internet makes ever clearer what a huge loser you are.
Here’s the documentary. For anyone who doesn’t have time to watch the whole thing, I’ve attached a second video below that features nothing but the segments featuring Roosh.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8RxL9kuBs4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsUh-Qisg2Q
Luzbelitx
❤️❤️❤️Kitty!❤️❤️❤️
That is awesome
Nequam
That is one of the best video game enemies I have ever seen. Right next to “B**** baby” from Alice: Madness returns and Koloctos from loz: skyward sword.
This is part of rape culture. And it disgusts me that some men and boys think “drunk sex” is not rape. If you are sober and you have sex with someone who is drunk then yes you raped them because people who are drunk can’t consent. They can’t think straight and if they can’t drive or think then what makes them think it’s ok to have sex with them? And we already blame women for being drunk when a guy rapes them and they were “begging for it” quote from P**** Elam himself. This is why we need to teach men and boys (people in general) about sex/rape because there are rapists (people who seriously don’t know much about sex, consent, etc) and victim blaming.
This is not “all men and boys are rapists!” This is about too many guys like that 18 year old and Doosh who really believe having sex with drunk people is not rape, “no means yes”, false accusations are more common and serious than actual rape not just among women and girls but men and boys
(they seem to forget that and seriously some of them, personally I have seen, actually believe men and boys “can’t be raped” because they always want sex and seen as jokes.)
And etc and etc and etc.
It just comes to show that the manospherians are wrong about rapists already being jailed for their crimes, being taken seriously, etc and the true victims are the falsely accused. (Not to say false accusations are not bad or anything)
But this seriously needs to stop its silencing victims of rape and makes it so much harder for people to come out. They’re really not only enormous threats (putting it very lightly) to women and girls but they are only making things worse for men and boys.
I am a former roosh reader and even bought one of his books.
Now I find him repulsive and frightening.
What a strange guy!
Why is he so angry?
Thanks, David, for posting this doc. I had avoided watching Roosh videos until now and had actually never seen Milo on video either. It is probably because it was a BBC production but I think an interview with you would have rounded it out nicely.
I know the post is about Roosh but I thought the MGTOW response was interesting. Based on what was said about British law, I assume that part of their concern was relative to speech issues. But if the reality of MGTOW is that they truly want to GTOW, why is it necessary to be anonymous and decline even an online interview?
Of course, the answer is that they don’t actually GTOW, they spew ugliness at the W they blame without censure. And how could they rationally explain that to Reggie? So instead they accuse him and the BBC of conspiracy against them without cause, like a bunch of 10 year olds.
Seeing Milo on this doc helped me see how he gets where he gets in spite of his lack of qualification and his sketchy background. He is well spoken and charming, even when he’s defending rape threats and swatting online, all ” Hale fellow, well met!” as though they’re talking about football. It is transparently an act and toxic as a viper.
I hope the younger man at 18 will find his way so he isn’t standing in the Speakers Corner at 40, a bitter and lonely man.
As always, I read every word here and value you all, I’m just more of a listener.
I wish you very peaceful holidays.
…wow. I’m an English twentysomething white cis lady from a pretty affluent family background, and if you’d asked me yesterday, I would have said that I’d never met any MRAs in real life- of course I’ve met some sexist dudes, but nothing THAT bad. But watching this, especially Lorenzo the law student at Roosh’s talk and Josh the youtuber (I think them specifically because they seem to come from the same class and cultural background as me) are giving me slightly scary flashbacks to affluent racist misogynist dudes I knew in private school and university. I guess some of those experiences affected me more than I realised at the time.
No, Roosh, it can’t. Because not every man just bulldozes over all the objections and silent nopes a woman issues. That would be only rapists like you who have this problem.
And if you took comments from actual women (and non-stooge men) on your site, you might in fact have learned that a long time ago.
It’s funny because Reggie Yates would have unlimited access to my warm moist cavity holes or whatever but Roosh V, Paragon of Manliness makes them dry like the Gobi desert. Is that irony?
I think I’ll change my username to “Warm Moist Cavity Holes”.
Honestly, Roosh has a way of making the nicest things sound unspeakably gross.
Roosh V is not an MRA
Ok, Christmas gifts all wrapped, I have finally the time to sit down and watch the video. And… 6 minutes into Roosh’s vomit-inducing ‘tour,’ I must quit, at least for a while.
There isn’t eggnog strong enough to make this palatable.
I’m not surprised the sick f…ellas who attended that gig didn’t have guts to show their faces, manly men that they are. Yeah, such revolutionaries, bravely spreading the gospel of neorapey ‘masculinity.’
gaah
Reggie did a great job of trying to expose this nasty piece of work. The ManosFear is such a funny title for the collection of women/LGBTI hating people, hopefully they will all grow up sooner rather than later.
Orange tango drinker:
Roosh is very much a Misogynist Rape Advocate.
Even though PUA and MRA differ in name and focus, they belong to the same category (of rabid misogynists).
Out of all the disturbing content in the video with Roosh, the absolute worst is the man praising him while asking for advice for parenting his daughter (and Roosh’s response). How can Roosh not see a problem with joking about a young child growing up to be “used”?
@KC
I’m curious — why did you change your mind about Roosh?
Oh gee, are we in for another round of sealioning from OTD?
No he’s not, but it’s a distinction without a difference and as discussed above, he and the MRM are buddies when it suits them.
Now, for a little shameless self promotion. I hope no one minds. I just brought my blog back from the dead. I think you can get to it by clicking on my name like at the old WHTM site. If not https://asongofinmycups.wordpress.com/
It’s a wine buzzed recap of ASOIAF chapters. Game of Thrones fans who didn’t read the books might be able to appreciate it, but pretty much it’ll only be interesting to ASOIAF fans. I just thought I’d put it out there 🙂
He still isn’t an MRA. His books and seminars have bugger all to do with mens rights activism.
This is why these guys will not win. Their arguments are all exclusionary. Every man who disagrees with me is a feminine man and not a true man. That sounds like an inclusive strategy….
EJ, paging EJ. OTD on aisle three.
::crashes through the wall::
OH YEAH
@Recovering Good Girl:
When men are in the company of other men and don’t think that women are listening, that’s when I hear the worst things said; and often by people I wouldn’t expect it from. I share your consternation.
Also, I’m not sure I’ve seen you before. Welcome to the site!
@KC:
I think part of the reason why he’s so angry nowadays is that you and people like you have stopped buying his books. He’s losing his admirers and it’s making him desperate; and like a lot of desperate people he lashes out.
weirwoodtreehugger,
Your tipsy ASOIAF bloggins are a hoot. I’m looking forward to digging through the archives. 😀
Who the fuck called him an MRA here, Orange?
Who? Point them out to me. Because I have obviously missed it. And no, we don’t give a fuck if it’s someone else who writes for another blog. If it bothers you that they do that, go fucking bug the shit out of them.
And even if this was somehow actually fucking relevant to the conversation (pro tip: IT’S NOT), they’re all fucking misogynists. Does the specific brand of misogyny matter that fucking much? Does it matter if Roosh is a PUA or a neoreactionary or doing his stupid neomasculinity thing? Does it?
NO. NO IT DOES NOT. Because it’s all the same misogynistic, women-in-the-kitchen, rapey shit in a different wrapper. Po-tay-to, po-tah-to. A bag of bullshit by any other name and all that.
So stop. Shut up. Go away. We don’t care. I can’t deal with this bullshit, it’s fucking Hexmas Eve. Can we have one day without your petty, pedantic bullshit that only you seem to care about? Please?
GQFem called him an MRA on this comment board.
Don’t care. What PI said. Go Away.
*rolls over and falls asleep*
Reggie seems like a decent human being, genuinely baffled and appalled by what he’s hearing
@orange tango drinker:
Hi again! Good to see you.
I’m going to shock you by agreeing with you. Daryush “Roosh” Valizadeh isn’t an MRA. He doesn’t use the word to describe himself, and many people who self-identify as MRAs would object to him being called one.
When we call him an “MRA”, therefore, we are guilty of sloppy taxonomy. We are using the term in a colloquial sense to describe all manospherians – whether they be orthodox Elamite MRAs, schismite MRAs, Farrellite Old Believer MRAs, Honey-Badger-ists, PUAs, MGTOWs, Redpillians, or even members of one of the semi-aligned movements like #GG, neoreaction, Anonymous or dark enlightenment.
The reason we do this is because their audiences tend to be the same people.
It’s like the old joke about the policeman who runs into a fierce mob composed of a Jew, a Trade Unionist, a Communist, a Feminist, a Seditionist, a Socialist, an Atheist, a Disestablishmentarian and an Anti-Monarchist. “What did you do?” asked the policeman’s boss. “I arrested him,” says the policeman.*
Similarly, the chances are that if you listen to Valizadeh, you also listen to one or more of Elam, Straughan, Vinczer, Esmay, Benjamin, Aurini, Bloomfield and/or Trump. To describe these as separate movements is misleading, because their memberships overlap extremely heavily.
Therefore, splitting hairs over the distinctions between MRAs, PUAs and MGTOWs is often pointless, because the movements overlap so much that they can safely be summed together.
—
* For those who don’t get it, the punch line is that there was only one person to whom all those words referred, rather than each word describing a different person.