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MRAs: Women Should Have to Register for the Draft Even Though They’re Unfit for Combat

Women in the military: A threat to MRAs, not to feminists
Women in the military: A threat to MRAs, not to feminists

Few subjects cause Men’s Rights Activists to become as irrationally angry as the requirement that young American men register for selective service.

MRAs regularly declare this obligation to be a form of “slavery,” a sign that society views men not as human beings but as “mere beasts of burden designed for the expendable whims of a gynocentric system.” If you’re a man in the United States, A Voice for Men’s “Janet Bloomfield” indignantly announces, “you must agree to die.”

Well, not so much. There is no draft, and there is approximately zero chance it will be resurrected any time in the forseeable future. But that doesn’t stop MRAs from complaining endlessly that women are allowed to vote, and own property, and do all sorts of other citizeny things without having to undergo the meaningless exercise of signing their names on a selective service registration card.

But it looks like that’s going to change. Now that women are being allowed into combat positions in the armed forces, it seems all but inevitable that women will be required to register alongside men.

You might expect MRAs to be jumping for joy at the very prospect. Nope. Because, it turns out, many MRAs don’t think women belong in combat positions — or even in the armed forces at all. Women, they say, just aren’t up to the job.

In a post on AVFM yesterday, for example, Michael Conzachi derides the notion of women in combat as a “monstrously stupid social engineering” experiment, claiming that anyone who knows anything about combat knows

that women simply do not have the physical strength nor the warrior, “Sheep Dog” mind set to do this dangerous arduous job, and to voluntarily and willingly place themselves in harm’s way; to protect the Sheep from the Wolf.

Adjusting his metaphors slightly, he goes on to declare that

You don’t hook up a covered wagon to a sheep, not even if you put a Rambo mask on it, you hook it up to a horse. Is that not clear? …

This is not an issue of equality, it’s an issue of ability.

Weirdly, Conzachi also waxes indignant at what he thinks will be the reaction of feminists to the possibility that women will have to register for the (still nonexistent) draft:

The shrill lobby who jumped up and down like circus monkeys screaming and demanding that all military combat jobs are open to women, will now start jumping up and down like circus monkeys complaining that they didn’t really mean that women will now have to actually register for the draft, and if they don’t, they will be subject to the same penalties and possible prosecution as men if they fail to do so.

The typical delusional uber-feminist speak, “we demand, we demand, we demand, combat jobs.” “Oops; well, we didn’t really mean that we would have to register for the draft, and be subject to the same penalties as men if we fail to do so, we just want equality, equality, equality.”

It’s a revealing complaint. I’ve seen precisely zero feminist opposition to the idea that women should be required to register for the (nonexistent) draft alongside men. Sure, I know plenty of feminists who would prefer that neither men nor women have to register; indeed, I’m one of them.

But the feminists who have been pushing to open the armed forces fully to women have done so knowing that equality would almost certainly result in women being required to register.

Indeed, when selective service registration was restarted back in 1980, the National Organization for Women and the League of Women Voters were two of the plaintiffs in a lawsuit that would have made women as well as men subject to the registration requirement.

Yes, that’s right: they wanted women to be subject to the same requirements as men — even though at the time women didn’t have the same opportunities as men in the armed forces. As the New York Times summarized their views, NOW and the other plaintiffs felt that “women [would be] relegated to second-class citizenship by exclusion from a fundamental obligation of citizenship.”

The Supreme Court ruled against them, and male-only registration continues to this day.

Feminists don’t have a problem with equality in the armed forces; MRAs do. It will be interesting to see their reaction as they lose this favorite talking point of theirs.

Because, let’s be honest, that’s pretty much all it is. Registration is essentially meaningless. Not only has no one been drafted since selective service registration was reinstituted in 1980, but no one has been prosecuted for failure to register since 1986. (There were only a tiny handful of cases from 1980-86, mostly brought on by plaintiffs challenging the law.)

MRAs complain that — as they see it — women have been given the right to vote without taking on the obligation to serve (or at least the obligation to sign a meaningless piece of paper that in some alternate world might lead to them being required to serve). But MRAs, or certainly a good portion of them, also think that women are psychologically and physically incapable of taking on this obligation.

It seems abundantly clear that MRAs don’t really want gender equality, in the military or anywhere else; they want women to be relegated forever to second-class status.

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Hippodameia
Hippodameia
5 years ago

Horses can pull covered wagons, but oxen would be better. MRAs think it’s possible to escape bears by climbing trees, though . . .

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
5 years ago

It’s easy to think of them as being weirdly hypocritical, but I’ve always seen manosphere arguments as “whatever argument I can make to get her back in the kitchen and under my thumb.” Each one’s isolated from the others, and each one has an invisible conclusion of “Therefore, women should respect me and do what I say.”

It’s a weird space to be in, trying to think in a way where these contradictory arguments make sense. Each argument is in its own little self-contained bubble, and all of the bubbles have the same conclusion – that’s how (I think) they convince themselves. “Look at all the arguments I have, this has to be right!” I guess that would mean that the work will involve popping those bubbles to show those contradictions, but I have no idea how to do that.

(Sorry about being all over-analytical! I’m sure this is all stuff you all know. I’m just processing it for myself)

dhag85
dhag85
5 years ago

I’ve always thought this was one of the most obvious MRA contradictions. And there are many.

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
5 years ago

It’s like, “You shouldn’t be considered equal to us, because you don’t have to fight and die in war! And you shouldn’t fight and die in war because you’re weak! Just acknowledge that you’re a weak weakling who should accept her place!” I imagine that’s how they logic it together in their heads. You can logick anything together if you start with a tautology, dummies.

PhilipRose
PhilipRose
5 years ago

I did this video a few years ago (and a number of others but this one recently as well) that turned into a back and forth between myself and Karen Straughan (GirlWritesWhat).

She has now been shown to be wrong on almost every point she made in her responses. She was proven wrong by the march of time.

Within a few years feminists will resolve the male only draft issue, and Men’s Activists will have done nothing to aid in that endeavor but whine, bitch and complain.

The one thing I am sure of in all this?

That her and the Men’s Activists will never acknowledge that feminists brought this about, they will never acknowledge that anti-feminists like them played a significant part in making it take so long, and that I was 100% right about everything I said to her, and she was 100% wrong.

Now excuse me while I go sip some scotch and smile the sweet smile of complete victory.

Philip Rose A.K.A. TheTruePooka

Monzach
Monzach
5 years ago

I live in one of the few remaining countries on Earth that still has universal draft of all men between the ages of 18-29 (and you remain as a part of the army reserves until age 40). I spent a quite boring five hours in the army selection ceremony almost exactly 15 years ago and I wouldn’t wish it for even my worst enemy. I wish we here in Finland would just abandon our doctrine of “believable defense” (it has never really been believable, at least not in a world where the country immediately to our east has nuclear weapons) and stopped the draft. I’m all for equality in all things and since women have had the option to volunteer for military service since 1994 I hope we can make it voluntary for us menfolk too.

In any case, I think the misogyny of the MRAs in this case really is closer to misandry. If a nation expects men to to volunteer for military service and then picks the ones who are physically and mentally fit yo serve in the military, why not do the same for women? Indeed, why not allow women to serve in all the branches that men serve in, provided that they can meet a reasonable standard of physical and mental ability?

And just as an aside, when I went to that draft ceremony all those years ago, that was the extent of my military service for this country. Sometimes being handicapped can be a positive thing, as I didn’t have to spend 9 months playing war in the woods, or alternatively 13 months doing some non-combat related task for very little pay. Or as the third option, spending a year in prison as a conscientous objector.

Dalillama
Dalillama
5 years ago

But that doesn’t stop MRAs from complaining endlessly that women are allowed to vote, and own property, and do all sorts of other citizeny things without having to undergo the meaningless exercise of signing their names on a selective service registration card.

Men can do all those things without registering for selective service too. They’re barred from federal employment and certain kinds of federal loans, though.

weirwoodtreehugger
weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

They’ll just move on to another reason women shouldn’t vote and have citizenship rights. Such as “females are beneficiaries of welfare money at a much higher rate than men, therefore men have taxation without representation.” This will in their minds put feminists in the position of either being for dismantling the social safety net or for denying citizenship rights to women because we take without paying. Checkmate feminists!

Judas Peckerwood
Judas Peckerwood
5 years ago

You don’t hook up a covered wagon to a sheep, not even if you put a Rambo mask on it, you hook it up to a horse. Is that not clear? …

My ride is powered by reindeer, no masks necessary.

dlouwe
dlouwe
5 years ago

Has anyone ever seen an MRA in real life? Like, sometimes I wonder if there’s some leak in an alternate reality where the MRA position actually makes any sort of sense, that sort of spills out into our internet. Their fundamental wrongness seems to suggest a difference in their fundamental reality. At times that seems easier to swallow than the idea that these people have a worldview that is so incompatible with reality.

Sascha Vykos
Sascha Vykos
5 years ago

Even if you don’t think women can serve in combat, there are a lot of non-combat roles in the military. There are plenty of men who aren’t fit for combat and they still have to register. I think the point is just that you know how many and who you can call up if needed and then you sort out the details later, if and when needed. Vaginas don’t change that.

I’m a feminist and I’ve always thought it was stupid that women didn’t have to sign up for the draft. It’s not like I’m a big fan of the draft, but if we have one, then it should be all of us (obviously with reasonable exceptions, by which I do not mean “but I’m in college!”).

In part I thought that because I knew that women have fought in every war. Women have always been there, they* just never got credit for it.

But also, if you have an army and you are turning away willing and able people, maybe you shouldn’t be drafting unwilling people just yet? Maybe it’s just a good idea to get the people who want to be there on board first, regardless of gender?

* I am female, but I say “they” here because I don’t count myself among the numbers of women who have fought in combat. It felt disingenuous to say “we” like I was in combat or something.

Chaltab
Chaltab
5 years ago

that women simply do not have the physical strength nor the warrior, “Sheep Dog” mind set to do this dangerous arduous job, and to voluntarily and willingly place themselves in harm’s way; to protect the Sheep from the Wolf.

lolwhut?

Have these guys ever even met a woman? Is their sample-size for the human female population so tiny that they could actually believe this?

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

And of course, feminists like me who agree that women should be eligible for the draft (that no politician who wants to be elected again would ever enact, especially after the last time it happened), but would rather just do away with the entire useless system entirely don’t exist to these guys.

Because I’m not made of straw, I suppose.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
5 years ago

I…no. That actually does make more sense. Ok, that’s really weird dlouwe.

Particularly considering that the revert sort of exists — https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_(networking) — bits of internet that appear to go into the aether, when that kinda shouldn’t really be possible.

weirwoodtreehugger
weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

You know, the funniest thing about this whole

that women simply do not have the physical strength nor the warrior, “Sheep Dog” mind set to do this dangerous arduous job, and to voluntarily and willingly place themselves in harm’s way; to protect the Sheep from the Wolf.

feeemales are incapable of protecting others line is that it contradicts the biotruths they usually love so much. It’s pretty well known among anyone who knows even the most rudimentary facts about animals that you do not mess with a mother and her young. This is true across a variety of unrelated species. Including humans. I think we’ve all seen this example
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/1686458/bjork-attacks-o.gif

Not only is Bjork a woman. She’s a petite woman. Still fiercely protective.

Rabukurafuto
Rabukurafuto
5 years ago

dlouwe
December 17, 2015 at 6:39 pm
Has anyone ever seen an MRA in real life? Like, sometimes I wonder if there’s some leak in an alternate reality where the MRA position actually makes any sort of sense, that sort of spills out into our internet. Their fundamental wrongness seems to suggest a difference in their fundamental reality. At times that seems easier to swallow than the idea that these people have a worldview that is so incompatible with reality.

Yes, sadly. I don’t know if he explicitly identifies as an MRA but he calls feminists feminazis unless they are “reasonable” (he never clarified what he considered reasonable nor who he thought was reasonable), bashed Anita Sarkeesian and Feminist Frequency, insisted there is no pay gap, and called marriage a scam. No surprise that he’s also a libertarian with a gun obsession.

Talking to the leaders of a local feminist club, they’ve had several encounters with these types, even getting real life trolls who claim they’re just asking questions.

Yutolia
Yutolia
5 years ago

“you must agree to die”

Actually, JB/AH, that’s the rule if you happen to be any creature born at any time, anywhere. And the agreeing part isn’t necessary – death is the only true guarantee in life.

I tend to get philosophical when people talk like there’s ever an option for a particular being not to eventually die.

dlouwe
dlouwe
5 years ago

@Rabukurafuto

That’s sad news, though I wasn’t holding out a ton of hope for my theory, just being optimistic.

weirwoodtreehugger
weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Yutolia,
To continue the horror movie talk from the other thread, have you seen It Follows? In my opinion (well, not just mine) the monster represents the inevitability of death. Although some red pillers think it’s a red pill movie for some reason that’s too inane for me to even remember.

Tracy
Tracy
5 years ago

@WWTH no, I hadn’t seen that. Holy crap, Bjork!

Never thought of soldiers having a ‘sheep dog’ mindset. That seems an odd comparison to me.

Here’s just one example of a fee-male not having what it takes to be in combat:

Senior Lieutenant Anna Timofeyeva-Yegorova of the Soviet Union’s 805th Ground Attack Regiment wasn’t one of history’s most badass aviatrixes just because she neck-punched antiquated social conventions and resolutely commanded a squadron of airmen who unquestioningly followed her orders. It’s not even because she flew one of the most versatile and effective attack craft of the Second World War and survived nearly 250 combat missions at a time when the typical pilot was lucky to make it to 10 without getting pulped into ground beef by any number of highly-efficient German devices designed for shredding aircraft armor apart like a .50-caliber sniper rifle round punching through a can of Sprite. No, Timofeyeva-Yegorova was a badass chick because she never backed down from anything, ever, no matter how intense – not misogynistic subordinates, not perpetual German anti-aircraft fire, and not even harsh interrogations from two of the most brutal, torture-iffic secret police organizations this side of the Inquisition. She had one primary objective in life – dessicating fascists into bloodless hunks of meat – and she pursued it with the sort of unstoppable relentlessness that would have made the Terminator himself manufacture tear ducts for the sole purpose of crying a single tear of joy.

Yeah, totally no ‘warrior’ mindset there. Nope. Because wimminz.

MexicanHotChocolate
MexicanHotChocolate
5 years ago

The idea that women are unsuited for combat will come as news to Dr. Ruth. Trained as a scout and as sniper, Dr. Ruth was wounded in action during the Israeli War for Independence. Israel is one of the few countries in the world with a mandatory military service requirement for women; 33% of IDF soldiers and 51% of IDF officers are women. Currently 88 – 92 percent of military roles are open to women. Female combat soldier serve terms of service identical to their male counterparts.

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
5 years ago

@dlouwe

Has anyone ever seen an MRA in real life?

Yes. I live in Edmonton.

They live among us.

Orion
Orion
5 years ago

Might be an unusually highbrow MRA? In “The Republic,” Socrates says your soldiers should be like sheepdogs. Though he may be trolling. You never can tell with Socrates.

LindsayIrene
LindsayIrene
5 years ago

@wwth

It Follows shows a woman being punished for having sex with a Chad instead of the Nice Guy that’s pined for her for years.

LindsayIrene
LindsayIrene
5 years ago

@wwth

I mean, that’s the Redpill interpretation. My own is pretty much the same as yours. (No edit window on mobile 😐)

(Edit: and now there is an edit window. Grrrr…)

mrex
mrex
5 years ago

@WWTH

Bjork had been harassed for four days by that reporter before she finally did anything, and then despite it looking badass, she wasn’t able to hurt the female reporter and basically just knocked her down. So your gif is not exactly supporting the idea that women can be tough and protective enough to immediately protect the defenseless against men .

This is not to say that women don’t have it in them, because they do. A video like this (TW- violence, foul language) may be better because it dispels the male illusion that women are so weak that they are unable to hurt men. True, she may have sucker punched (kicked) the guy, but she also knocked him clean out.

Bina
5 years ago

Why do I get the feeling that the real reason MRAs don’t want women in the army is because they can’t stand the idea that a woman might just end up besting any number of men in combat? And taking them prisoner? And marching them at gunpoint to the brig? And…?

I know they’re damned if they’ll admit to being physically afraid of women, but deep down, I think they really are. Because let’s face it, some of us could clobber quite a few of them. I know I could, and I know I’m not alone in that.

raysa
raysa
5 years ago

Bina:

My husband and I just had this conversation, about how stupid it is to think that no man, ever, anywhere, can be physically bested by no woman, ever, anywhere.

MRAS are undoubtedly terrified of women. And not just physically.

Bina
5 years ago

MRAS are undoubtedly terrified of women. And not just physically.

No doubt about it. They can’t argue their way out of a wet paper bag, even if a woman soaks it for them out of charity. Of course they’re scared shitless of us, and on so many levels. Imagine what would happen if we quit playing weak/dumb/scared so as not to hurt their egos anymore. They’re afraid that we’ll take over the world, and start doing to them what they’ve done to us all along.

(The far more likely possibility, that we would remake it into a world where that shit no longer happens, of course, never occurs to them.)

shay simmons
shay simmons
5 years ago

David et al:

The sheepdog reference is to a famous (famous in military circles, at any rate) essay by LtCol Dave Grossman called “On Wolves, Sheep, And Sheepdogs.”

It discusses the roles of civilians (sheep), enemies (wolves) and the military (sheepdogs).

http://www.mwkworks.com/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html

It’s quite popular with chickenhawks and Rambo-wannabes, as well, who fondly imagine that they are to be considered sheepdogs.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Bina | December 17, 2015 at 9:24 pm
Imagine what would happen if we quit playing weak/dumb/scared so as not to hurt their egos anymore. They’re afraid that we’ll take over the world, and start doing to them what they’ve done to us all along.

When women actually do this, MRAs scramble to shut them up and/or shut them down, and I think it’s out of a fear that it’ll spread to other women, and show them they don’t have to take this garbage. If one woman sees other women standing up and saying “Fuck you shitlord, I don’t have to take this from you”, then they’ll feel empowered to do it themselves to the shitlords in their lives.

They talk about this all the time with feminism, and how feminism has spread, making women “worthless”, but the fact is, so many women have discovered that being “worthless” to a sack-of-shit misogynist is most definitely a good thing.

msexceptiontotherule
msexceptiontotherule
5 years ago

Somewhat OT…

If you climb up a tree in hopes of escaping a bear on the ground, you’d better check to make sure there aren’t any baby bears up in your chosen tree, which should be super tall, very sturdy and yourself an excellent climber. Oh and that the bear gets bored after climbing up to chew off your feet. Even here in SoCal there are regular reports from the foothills of bears in trees out in someone’s backyard or residential neighborhoods. We also have coyotes that use our riverbeds/concrete-covered flood control channels as highways to roam from the local mountains, foothills, urban areas to suburban communities all the way to the coast. They have become so bold in many local cities that they go beyond snatching pets who happen to be outside, with reports of pets *inside* their homes being grabbed. Mountain lions show up in the more wealthy parts of Orange County, as do rattlesnakes.

Now for the topic at hand…

It’s kind of irritating that despite all the overwhelming evidence – the women serving their country’s armed forces throughout the world, for example – these jerks don’t think that women have an interest in taking on combat roles from which they’ve previously been barred, in some cases they don’t even want them in armed forces at all, UNTIL it’s a conversation about the draft. The argument that women are too physically weak and whatever..Nonsense, poppycock, and bullshit. There is evidence of many women who fought to their very last breath against those who intended to harm/kill/etc throughout history, just like there are such women today. Once it gets to the part where idiots start to talk about women being too dumb and useless to vote is just…irony. From a bunch of man-babies and their sad collaborators.

msexceptiontotherule
msexceptiontotherule
5 years ago

@P.I.

Like the hundredth monkey! 🙂

xthetenth
xthetenth
5 years ago

The really funny thing is that the actual military people who still think there’s use for the draft think it’s nuts that it’s men only for a very simple reason. The main reason they see a use for conscription is to get the military access to people with very lucrative skill sets like computer security, and using it to provide bulk bodies is the height of folly. Yet another instance of reactionaries who claim to support the military getting in its way because they spend more time using what they think it is to justify their views and make them feel tough by proxy than actually caring about it.

And I seriously doubt there’s a single MRA who would’ve been fit to load shells for someone like Mariya Oktyabrskaya. She earned the heck out of a Hero of the Soviet Union for exactly the sort of bravery and willingness to take a risk that that MRA is claiming is somehow linked to a gimpy chromosome. I bet he’d do sooo much better.

Also, there’s a really good essay I saw called “we have always fought” if I remember right. Women have always fought. There were women in the bloodbaths of the 1600s surprising men very badly when they ask for the body of one of their well regarded officers back and getting told she was a woman. There were plenty of women in the trenches of WWI. I don’t see entitled MRAs signing up for that any time soon.

DS
DS
5 years ago

I’m calling shenanigans on this. A piece of paper with my signature on it that gives the government legal standing to send me to die in an oil war if they so choose is *NOT* meaningless. It is absolutely the kind of heavy handed nonsense that is the hallmark of bygone centuries.

You are correct in suggestion the likelihood of a draft is remote, but to say it’s meaningless when racist maniacs like Ted Cruz and Donald Duck-I-mean-Trump are whipping the country into a xenophobic, nationalistic frenzy is a few sandwiches short of a picnic, sir.

I normally love reading you’re articles, but sometimes it feels like you’re going out of your way to be inflammatory, sort of like you’re climbing a tree just to call an MRA a dumb-head. It’s asinine. It is enough simply to quote these fascists and skinheads, underscore the garbage that they peddle, have a laugh or two (or ten) at how quaint they are, and move on. You don’t have to let your journalism get yellow like this by injecting unfounded assertions.

You’re a bright guy, Dave. I believe you can and should be above this. Thanks for doing what you do, putting up with the hate from these jerks, and pressing forward.

David Stratton

Viscaria
Viscaria
5 years ago

So, if I’ve understood correctly, we shouldn’t let wolf/sheep/dog/horse/monkey hybrids serve in combat positions. I can agree to that.

HeinzD
HeinzD
5 years ago

@Scildfreja

::Albertan hi-five::

Olive O'Sudden
Olive O'Sudden
5 years ago

Selective service just needs to be done away with. Failure (or refusal) to register has serious consequences, and it is unfair to men that they are subject to such penalties, and unfair to anyone who doesn’t believe in the draft and encourages a young man they care about to not register:

A young man who fails to register with Selective Service may be ineligible for opportunities that may be important to his future. He must register to be eligible for federal student financial aid, state-funded student financial aid in many states, most federal employment, some state employment, security clearance for contractors, job training under the Workforce Investment Act, and U.S. citizenship for immigrant men…
Failing to register or comply with the Military Selective Service Act is a felony punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 or a prison term of up to five years, or a combination of both. Also, a person who knowingly counsels, aids, or abets another to fail to comply with the Act is subject to the same penalties.
https://www.sss.gov/Registration/Why-Register/Benefits-and-Penalties

Bina
5 years ago

They talk about this all the time with feminism, and how feminism has spread, making women “worthless”, but the fact is, so many women have discovered that being “worthless” to a sack-of-shit misogynist is most definitely a good thing.

“Women are only valuable to us as long as we can feel superior to them!” — every MRA/MGTOW/PUA/RedPillock EVER.

TheLurker
TheLurker
5 years ago
katz
5 years ago

So, if I’ve understood correctly, we shouldn’t let wolf/sheep/dog/horse/monkey hybrids serve in combat positions. I can agree to that.

comment image

LindsayIrene
5 years ago

civilians (sheep), enemies (wolves) and the military (sheepdogs)

Ick. Sheep are stupid animals that exist to be fleeced.

I mean, yes, lambs are adorable. But still.

weirwoodtreehugger
weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Yeah, it’s really a nice little glimpse at what the military industrial complex thinks of us.

Anarchonist
Anarchonist
5 years ago

Personally, I’m fond of the theory that MRAs don’t actually physically live in an alternate dimension, but they do see the word as a world of extremely unlikely potential outcomes. Meaning, they imagine the world at its worst (for them, mind you, screw other people), then discuss that world as if it was real. Yes, I am saying that what is a reality for many women and minorities is just a thought experiment to these entitled douchehats.

Combine that with the common conservative belief that social dynamics don’t matter and that society is a collection of individuals making individual decisions that have no effect on the big picture, and you have a bunch of screeching conspiracy theorists who can’t tell apart an unlikely, unprecendented scenario (misandry) from a scenario that is not only very likely, but has been constantly happening in the history of the world (misogyny). Some of them go a step further and completely make up a world where the probable is the improbable and vice versa, but I’m talking about the less honest strain of MRAs here.

You’d kinda have to believe all that in order to believe that misandry is an equal problem to misogyny, yet still be able to function in real life. Misogyny is an existing, systemic problem that affects the lives and careers of women all around the world. But dammit, misandry could happen in an alternate dimension with a history and social system completely different from our own, therefore it’s just as bad! MRAs justify their own “activism” in the same manner: If only the world was completely different, then we would be necessary! But wait, there is a slight possibility that something remotely like what we imagine might potentially come true in an alternate dimension somewhere perhaps, therefore we are needed!

As we know, human beings have a very poor understanding of how probabilities work, which is why gambling is a booming business. Social conservatives just like to pretend we live in a world where probabilities bend to their will in order to justify their fear and persecution complex. Case in point: A person who believes that the draft is a very important issue. He is terrified of a potential draft, not of an actual, existing draft. Which doesn’t exist. And is therefore not as pressing a matter as, say, the actual reality of women in the military.

Not to put a too fine point on it, this is true for most social conservatives. Since they operate mainly out of a constant state of fear, they seem to believe that any slightly unsettling scenario, however unlikely, must be prevented at all costs, even if it means sacrificing others to protect yourself.

@DS

I actually prefer it that David comments on the snippets of dumbfuckery he quotes. His humorous and insightful commentary make it all much more bearable, and means we here in the comments don’t need to bring up the obvious time and again. Any new reader with a modicum of common sense but no actual knowledge of MRAs will indeed need an explanation of what it all means in the context of the real world. WHTM is not just for people who have an intricate understanding of the mindset and language of the manosphere, there are casual readers here as well, and they will need someone to unpack the bullshit. If I just wanted to read comments from a bunch of circlejerking, reality-ignoring asshats, I would go directly to AVFM or some other MRA website, thank you very much. This is a mockery website, and I expect it to deliver.

Also, don’t associate people with mental illness with a spiteful, racist, islamophobic asshole like Trump. Read the comments policy.

rugbyyogi
rugbyyogi
5 years ago

Judgy Bitch? Isn’t she Canadian? What’s her beef in this?

Ugh, I’m against the selective service in general, but not against women having to register for it in the exact same way that men do. This is a nasty bit of useless paperwork with serious consequences if not filled in – that I’m going to have to drag my son down to the Embassy to complete in a number of years time. Hopefully, he will no longer have aspirations to warrior status by then (but he’s not interested in the US army).

It’s interesting that they think women are unfit. Turns out an awful lot of Americans are unfit in general according to this Economist article. http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21676778-failures-iraq-and-afghanistan-have-widened-gulf-between-most-americans-and-armed

During the Korean war, around 70% of draft-age American men served in the armed forces; during Vietnam, the unpopularity of the conflict and ease of draft-dodging ensured that only 43% did. These days, even if every young American wanted to join up, less than 30% would be eligible to. Of the starting 21m, around 9.5m would fail a rudimentary academic qualification, either because they had dropped out of high school or, typically, because most young Americans cannot do tricky sums without a calculator. Of the remainder, 7m would be disqualified because they are too fat, or have a criminal record, or tattoos on their hands or faces. According to Sergeant Haney, about half the high-school students in Clayton County are inked somewhere or other; according to his boss, Lieutenant-Colonel Tony Parilli, a bigger problem is simply that “America is obese.”

Evil Inky
Evil Inky
5 years ago

civilians (sheep), enemies (wolves) and the military (sheepdogs)
Ick. Sheep are stupid animals that exist to be fleeced.

I mean, yes, lambs are adorable. But still.

And sheepdogs are used by the person in charge to herd the sheep so they can be fleeced or slaughtered. I’ve always found that whole metaphor to be somewhat troubling.

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
5 years ago

Monzach:

And just as an aside, when I went to that draft ceremony all those years ago, that was the extent of my military service for this country.

*Käpykaarti luokka 1982 high five*

Ok, I opted for civilian service and actually managed to get a relatively easy/interesting job as a lab/office assistant at what was then Kansanterveyslaitos. Didn’t work too hard but they didn’t pay for my housing either (I lived at my parents).

At the sivari “training” centre we had some lectures on pacifism by random volunteer non-scholars. Some of that information I later found to be factually inaccurate, like that the US has “always” had a volunteer military, or that in medieval Europe wars were only fought by the nobility.

Or as the third option, spending a year in prison as a conscientous objector.

Actually, I recall the sentence was “only” six months back then and possibly only four now.

Kat
Kat
5 years ago

@Tracy

Standing there defiantly as a group of Russian guards hurried after her, she told the dude straight to his face, “You can shoot me, but I won’t let you torture me.”

Made me cry.

If I ever have to, I hope I can be strong enough to say that.

Kat
Kat
5 years ago

@Bina

Of course they’re scared shitless of us, and on so many levels. Imagine what would happen if we quit playing weak/dumb/scared so as not to hurt their egos anymore. They’re afraid that we’ll take over the world, and start doing to them what they’ve done to us all along.

(The far more likely possibility, that we would remake it into a world where that shit no longer happens, of course, never occurs to them.)

Yep, they’re scared.

And I do believe that feminists — female and male — are going to have to take over the world, to ensure that planet Earth continues to exist.

Kat
Kat
5 years ago

@xthetenth
Unbelievable! Mariya Vasilyevna Oktyabrskaya would defy orders and jump out of her tank, named “The Fighting Girlfriend,” to repair the damaged tank in the midst of battle!

I don’t know how many of you have watched 24, but she’s the real (heroic, order-defying, world-saving) Jack Bauer!

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