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We here at We Hunted the Mammoth often wonder why the so-called Men Going Their Own Way don’t just GO already.
But maybe we’re being unfair. Because it seems clear that a lot of them don’t live on the same planet as the rest of us.
Take this, well, unexpected critique of women I found in the MGTOW subreddit the other day.
For my reaction to this post, let me refer you to the following gif.
Frank Torpedo — meh, whatever floats your boat. Personally, my sexuality is complicated with little primary sexual attraction, so I’m really not sure on that one. Aesthetically? Varies features associated with various races, depending on a variety of factors, pretty much the only trait I definitely never find pleasing to look at is the muscled sleezy sort, I’m a much bigger fan of androgyny.
Kid wise, my ex’s (different ex) mixed race nephew is the cutest kid ever, cutest little curls, take Jewish side curls, make them slightly more textured, plop them on an adorable little kid.
Thoughts? She was probably not too popular with WoC as she’s a model (like, cover of Ebony days before he was born model) and then went and married a white guy, but damn is their kid a cutie!
Questions? How differently do various communities treat non-cishet mixed race couples, and how much does this vary based on the races involved? I guess in terms of one you can maybe answer — you dating a white woman versus an Asian woman or a Native American woman (assuming you swing that way, I apologize for my presumption if not!)
My wife and I hoped that our daughter would be a redhead, but that was purely because it was a genetic possibility given that we both carry the gene (one of us is a redhead, the other had a redheaded grandmother), not the reason we got together and decided to have kids in the first place.
We got our wish, though, which was nice.
I’m a blue-eyed Teutonic/Nordic blonde and I married a guy back in the 70s who was what some people call “black Irish” – dark hair, brown eyes, ruddy beige skin. Then we had four kids and did Gregor Medel proud: green eyes, blue eyes, hazel eyes, light brown eyes.
Punnett square babies!
Whenever I read these MGTOW “breeding stock rants”, there’s always a Brer Rabbit briar patch undertone to them. “Ugh, using men as breeding stock! That would be so terrible hooray I’d finally get to have guaranteed sex and awful, what a horrible nasty idea pick me! pick me! pleeeeease“
I’m told my grandmother had a thing about “good ears.” Whether that means small or symmetrical or what, I don’t know, but it was important to her that her husband have the good ears, both because she found them attractive and because she wanted her kids to have them. Clearly she was using my grandfather as breeding stock!
My mom says that when she got together with my dad, my grandmother took her aside at one point to let her know that his ears were acceptable marriage material.
Edit: Come to think of it it was probably an attached/unattached thing.
@ msexceptiontotherule
Why thank you kindly (blushes fetchingly over the calculator).
Maths and insomnia, eh?
Given enough resources and time – and if one cared just enough – it would be a great performance art project to find out where MGTOWdude lives and bus in twice daily teams of a dozen volunteers to have exactly that conversation in his hearing, and film it.
In fact, that would be a cool project for other folk of his stripe who post totally absurd assfacts as proof of their vile wordview: get it acted out in front of them while filming. Candid Camera for Crapheads.
But, hey ho: instead I must do the washing.
This reminds me of 8th grade. Small class, the science topic was genetics, and the other kids knew I had a red-haired brother and mother (Mom worked at the same school ). One boy made a comment to me and a red-haired boy, “You two should have babies together – you’d have little [name of my brother]s!”
This was embarrassing to both the red-haired boy and myself – we quite disliked each other. 🙂
Wait. So snatching / harvesting genetically superior sperm from unsuspecting men isn’t a thing…?
Yes, I’ve heard this kind of talk, so while the subject of the post may have been exaggerating frequency, it’s not completely made up. I think it’s the product of a society with a lot of racial tension.
Anyway, as others have pointed out you’re not guaranteed a beautiful baby. But it does seem to happen more often! It can happen within different ethnicities within the same race, too – getting a “more attractive” kid. There’s a reason why we think inbred is ugly. Conversely, outbreeding may give you nicer looking and more importantly, potentially more robust, offspring. You’re certainly far less likely to have kids with certain recessive genetic disorders.
My white cousin married a Black/Asian guy. They’re both better than average looking, but their kids are very nice looking. But if she was hoping to have kids with his racial features*, she didn’t do so well. One of their kids looks completely white.
@Viscaria – yeah, attached/detached earlobes. I have to admit, I have never been attracted to a guy with attached earlobes. But earlobe attachment is apparently not a straightforward inheritance question as I learned today: http://udel.edu/~mcdonald/mythearlobe.html
___
*That’s not why she married him.
Not to further derail, but this varies greatly from one cat to the next. I have a kitty I picked up from a shelter when she was one year old. She took 6 months to even tolerate being on the same floor of the condo as the other kitties, and a year to tolerate being in the same room (opposite ends, of course). She’s 9 now, and she will now tolerate being about 12 inches from the 17-year-old old fart of a cat who does nothing but sleep all day and avoid walking too close to her. Occasionally she will sneak up behind him, sniff him, and then as soon as he turns his head to look at her she hisses and swats at him and one of them runs away.
Of course, she’s got terrible kitty social skills. She meows at other cats the way she does at people and she doesn’t use the same body language at all. She came from a house where she was a sole cat to an elderly person who couldn’t care for her anymore, so I think that has something to do with it.
Kupo — I will be perfectly happy if our girls can tolerate sharing the house without requiring closed doors between them! Girl #2 is a stray we brought in so she wouldn’t freeze, I’m not expecting best buds, just a truce 🙂
@Argenti
Funny you should say that, because, while the giant, athletic, muscular types do have a draw for me, I also like androgyny and feminine males.
I saw a picture the other day of a slender black male with wide hips, with a voluptuous white woman, and I was thinking to myself that it would be nice if there were more images like that in the media of the pairing, instead of the parade of stereotypical large black men who are straighter than straight and masculine and etc.,.
I’ll testify from my point of view as a black person that presents as male in real life. I’m bisexual so you’re half right, just about – no fear!
If you think the interracial thing is a rupture in the black community, non-hetero and non-cis people cause an even larger one. On the extreme end, you have the African heads of state who banned all forms of LGBT behavior and use punitive deterrent measures like prison or even death.
Championing this attitude are people like Dr. Umar Johnson and Mwalimu K. Baruti, who writes lovely books detailing how gay and trans black people were created by the wiles of white people, as a method of controlling the black population, that gayness and transpeople were invented by white people in Ancient Greece, that Europeans brought the idea of being gay to Africa, and that there was no such thing as LGBT Africans before the whites came.
Dr. Baruti calls LGBT black people “Yurugu’s Eunuchs” – Yurugu being an african word for a white person – and has written a large treatise explaining his theory.
http://postimg.org/image/szt8m84ox/
And there’s this awful Straight Black Pride movement, which is not a thing and should not exist, as this excellent black person says in this article here:
http://www.crunkfeministcollective.com/2015/07/15/say-no-to-noteps-and-straight-black-pride/
The Straight Black Pride people make me cringe super-hard. All they do is shame and attack black people who are LGBT.
On the other hand, you have excellent people like Gazi and Kat Blaque, who are LGBT yet ferociously pro-black and supportive of their own black people – even though they receive flak from the community because of their orientation.
There are also black people who have studied the long, rich history of homosexuality and transpeople in Africa, writing excellent books about them, but the anti-LGBT crowd like to say that these are not real black people; they’re just white people pretending to be black and disseminating misinformation to make black men effeminate and gay.
Well, as others have noted, including myself, a black man dating a white woman is grounds for open war in the black community, and I’d get a good deal of pushback and resistance.
Mind you, there ARE plenty of black people who just don’t care and are trying to get through the day without worrying about things like that, but it is definitely problematic and contentious to a certain degree.
Asian women cause less of an issue, but there are still black people who object very strongly to this pairing, since not all of them are very friendly with the Asian community – some are distrustful and caution around Asian people, due to small, specific incidents of friction between our communities.
It’s quite complex, but I’ll try to summarize it in a few lines – some Asian people have a penchant for being racist towards black people, and since they open stores in black communities, a few black people view them as attempting to economically destroy the black community – it is said that we should only buy from black-owned businesses.
There are also black people who have no problem whatsoever with Asian people, and are quite relaxed and calm around them, so the anti-Asian black people are somewhat of a minority.
Native Americans cause absolutely no issue whatsoever in the Black community. You’ll be hard pressed to find black people who have an problem with them.
First of, let me apologize for my assumptions about your sexuality! I really should know better. Second, thank you for your response, lots of things in there that I didn’t know and find interesting and shall have to ponder and read and such. Third, fuck yeah Kat Blaque!
*dies laughing* I was giving that link about Straight Black Pride some side eye (not the author, her topic) but then I click back over here and that edit timer went zipping down from the 4~ min it had been at when I clicked over to zero. Not just disappeared, but actually, hilariously, counted down at lightening pace. I needed that after reading the comments over there (yeah dude, a black woman having sex for fun totally means she’s leading to the downfall of your race by not making babies…I might be white but I know misogyny when I’m staring at it!)
Is that seriously the argument though? That queer peeps don’t make babies and are thus something something genocide? Funny that, since my not-ex-not-FWB (it’s complicated) and I are both quite queer — non-binary gender identity, bi/pan sexual… and have the anatomy to make babies together. Like, trans people parenting isn’t even all that rare, the idea that transitioning ends their bloodline is, uh, just /).<
That's all, so much face palming from this whitey. Not really sure whether this is a thing I should even be commenting on, since one privilege I do have is the racial one, but yeah, you do you, and my queer ass is perfectly fine with having a pride movement that isn't quite so white middle class cis gay man.
@Argenti
I don’t mind, don’t worry. All’s well – and if you infer I’m straight, at least my bisexuality won’t make Umar and Baruti cry at night about how the White People Turned Me Gay. 😛
Also, since I seem to have skirted around your original question, yes, of course I would date a white, Asian, or Native American woman!
@Argenti
That dude is one of the “Respectability Politics” black dudes who thinks if we all behaved nicely and did nothing objectionable, we would ‘win’ the fight against racism.
One, that shit never works.
Two, I could give absolutely no fucks about how many dudes – or girls – or anything – a black woman has sex with. She’s not me! Why should I care? And what does that have to do with anything, really?
‘
Umar and Baruti are merely evolved versions of the “Respectability” people – if we were all straight, we would win, blah blah.
Now, I have a smidge of “Respectability’ attitude myself, because I feel that black people should strive for intellectual pursuits like myself and be interested in reading, culture, and so on, but that’s just my tiny personal opinion, and if someone wants to just be a rapper or a baller, I’m not going to get in their face and scream “YOU ARE THE REASON WHITE PEOPLE ARE DESTROYING US!”
Yes, and also, if you’re trans, you have become an effeminate black male who is gay and wearing a skirt, or a manly woman who wears pants.
First off, not all FtMs have the same sexuality. Also, anyone who doesn’t want to be a sexy girl with another sexy girl is missing out. If I wasn’t wide-shouldered and muscular and masculine, hell yeah, I’d go for it.
I apologize if this sounds like I’m trivializing the serious nature of transitioning. I realize it’s not all like:
*Someone throws hot water on me*
“Oh my god, I’m a cute girl! Brb, changing name to Francesca Torpedo and getting a latte and a sundress.”
It is actually very serious business and I have nothing but the utmost respect for those courageous enough to actually take that step.
Ah, well.
I think there’s a Gay Black Pride Movement, but I’m not sure they’re mainstream yet.
I don’t mind if you comment on it, and I am glad to explain these things to you so that you can better understand the Point-of-view of at least one black person. We are often shut out from speaking, so I think it’s important to express one’s opinion as often as possible.
I’m sure other black people may agree or disagree with me, based on their own unique experiences.
I really wonder what goes on in the heads of Straight black pride people, and Umar, and Baruti.
Like, they think that if all black people were straight, it would go like this:
White people: Ermahgerd, all the black people are straight! That’s it, guys! It’s over! Let’s go hand ourselves in!
LMFAO.
Ok, respectability politics! Yes yes, I’m perfectly sure that if I sit down and shut up, or at least use really small, really polite academic words, suddenly people will get that gender is a spectrum not a binary thing. That’s it, I’m sure!
Though, I’d hate to see all the bigoted heads explode if all black people were straight… wait, we hate them, and they hate queers, and we hate queers and HEAD EXPLOSION!!
What, I can dream can’t I?
Oh boy, mini-rant incoming! Cuz that’s both the media stereotype and a semi-truth, in that with medical gatekeepers that’s what you have to be to get the psych go ahead for surgery. And fuck gatekeeping. No, you don’t have to wear skirts and heals and makeup to be a woman, not even if you’re requesting bottom surgery, and you know, I’d bother to state the inverse, but getting a breast reduction isn’t even a thing doctors really question, and an optional mastectomy doesn’t require half the hoop jumping that amab trans people go through to be allowed bottom surgery. Cuz you can’t possibly be sane if you want to cut your dick off but don’t wear skirts 24/7! (Bigotry absolutely intended there, because seriously, fuck gatekeeping)
*calms down some* and then that’s the only image really seen publicly, and what the general public thus assumes, which only makes those of us who don’t fit it, well… frankly, varying degrees of unsafe. Not that those who do fit it are safe, but the further you deviate the more likely you are to find even corners of the trans community side eyeing you. And that’s just bollucks.
And I clearly lack the ability to play the respectability game 🙂
This dude…he’s like that one in the Onion, the one who wonders why all these homosexuals keep sucking his cock. Only it’s not them, it’s him wanting them to, and he’s in denial. Which ain’t no river in Egypt, Cleo.
Earlier this year during a discussion on the complexities of ‘bottom'(?) surgery and how it is so much more than just ‘turning something inside out or something outside being turned inside’ I encountered someone nice enough to provide me with lots of medical-type-info including pictures when I expressed an interest in getting a more detailed perspective of what this area of surgery entails…they were kind, very straightforward, and the exchange here between Argenti and Frank reminded me of that experience. I think it’s awesome. 🙂
@bluecat
I experience insomnia more frequently than I don’t, and since it’s silly to try and stay in bed waiting it out I wind up at the computer working on case-related for legal occupation things while wandering around online simultaneously. Statistics was the one area of maths that I did well in, but I would gladly throw myself at the feet of whatever curriculum requirements god was responsible for keeping the math course credits requirements to transfer from community college and get my bachelors where I was able to get through and never need to take another math class again. The fact that now they require classes like calculus for even those majoring in things (do pre-law, art history, anthropology etc really need that much math?!) besides STEM and how such changes happening earlier would have prevented me from completing college within a reasonable time period is obvious as something to be grateful for. Trying to cram a subject I struggled with into a single semester using a textbook/materials designed for a full year of study made me thrilled beyond measure to find a school offering classes that covered half per semester, even if it took a year to progress to the next course.
@Frank – Yesterday during some downtime I pecked out a pretty lengthy reply on my phone, but minimized the browser before proofreading and hitting submit.
It was gone when I went back to it.
*shakes fist at low RAM and my own lack of foresight*
I’m going to give it another go later, but for now it’s an uncharacteristically beautiful day where I live and I have some outside chores calling.
@Mockingbird
Looking forward to it.
RE: Bottom surgery, may be TMI
You know, I’ve thought about bottom surgery, even before I even realized I was genderfluid and has dysphoria, when I was a kid to be more specific. I didn’t know there were trans men back then, so I just thought I had some of the ol’ Freudian penis envy, but I thought if they could figure out a way to give me a penis, that would be great. Li’l 11 year old me quite liked that idea, especially after I got my first period. I never wanted that shit. Ever.
But I’ve done some research on it, maybe not the best research, but it’s certainly put me off the idea of bottom surgery. I think I’d rather stick with packers…whenever I get a proper packer.
You know, the one thing about not have a penis attached to you is that you can pick and choose your penis. I particularly have my eye on a certain packer I saw on Bad Dragon, which I just recently got the chance to peruse for the first time. It’s nice. :3
I wish to Gods I had thought of making dragon penises back when I was a little younger, in the early 2000s.
I’d be a frickin’ millionaire superstar just like the Bad Dragon crew.
Oh, while we’re talking about the craaaaazy conspiracy theories some black people have, such as Gayness being a Directive of the White Man to Destroy African Families, you guys should know that another conspiracy theory going about is that all white people like having sex with animals.
I believe I mentioned this earlier. Anyhoo, I sure am glad they haven’t found out about Bad Dragon yet, or they would use the existence of Bad Dragon as IRREFUTABLE TROOF that White People Like Animal Dicks.
@Argenti, others
You guys should know that there is a small subsection of black people who basically do Live Action Role Playing, except they roleplay as African kings and queens, gods, goddesses, and so on.
They read a little bit of Egyptian History, then immediately to to the DMV or so on, change their name to Pharaoh Imhotep or Nefertiti or Cleopatra, put on a dashiki, wear some Egyptian looking jewelry, and demand that everyone call them King or Queen.
This is, obviously, Live Action Role Playing at its finest.