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One of the standard critiques of Evo Psych is that it’s a collection of “just-so” stories.
That is, the practitioner of Evo Psych takes a look at the admittedly fragmentary data we have about human existence in the long ago and far away Environment of Evolutionary Adaptation, makes up a story that seems like it might explain what was going on, and — ta da! — we have a brave new truth about human nature that carries the imprimatur of Science.
Well, the aspiring Evo Psychologists of the manosphere take this ingenious strategy one step further: instead of making up a story that seems to fit the data, they just make up the data as well.
Take, for example, the wall-of-text disquisition on “female nature” that one Redditor recently posted on the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit. LonelyDalek starts off by noting that human beings are in fact a kind of animal, driven at a basic level by our biological instincts to survive and reproduce.
As Mr. Dalek sees it, men sort of specialized in surviving, while women concentrated on the reproducing.
Males’ role in the ancient nomadic life-style was that of hunters and gatherers – so men’s biology leans towards self-preservation a little more.
Yes, that’s right, ladies: WE HUNTED THE MAMMOTH TO FEED YOU, and the thoughtful cave men even brought back some tasty berries for dessert, while their lazy cave wives sat around all day nibbling on prehistoric bon bons and occasionally checking to make sure their babies hadn’t been eaten by a dinosaur or something.
Or so goes the theory. In fact, as far as we can tell, women in hunter-gatherer societies probably did most of the gathering, and possibly a lot of the hunting as well. Whatever the distribution of labor, hunting-and-gathering-wise, women were certainly bringing home their share of the food.
But Mr. Dalek is has already moved on to his conclusion: that men, as hunters and protectors of women, tended to be a lot more willing to resort to violence than their female counterparts. And so, as he sees it, “the primary victims of male nature, thus, are not the other gender,” but other men who are cruising for a bruising.
Apparently Mr. Dalek has forgotten about that whole caveman-dragging-a-woman-by-her-hair meme, which used to be all the rage amongst hack cartoonists.
But it’s when Mr. Dalek gets to women that his just-so-storytelling goes completely into fantasyland.
The primary victims of female nature ARE men. Women’s nature is procreation oriented, because it is their bodies that carry the wombs to gestate and deliver the next generation. It seeks to secure a stable inflow of resources while being incapacitated in the process of child-rearing.
“It?”
This makes men,the resource-procurers, the primary targets of female nature.
Yep, women “target” men by expecting them to contribute something to the upbringing of the children they’ve fathered.
In this paradigm of things, there is no incentive for the women to actually give a damn about the well-being of the man/men providing for her; in fact, it is in her best interest to not be attached to a single man in particular, but keep monkey-branching to a stronger, better provider.
Uh, that is not actually how the world works. Or how it ever worked. These stories you guys tell each other again and again and again are based on NOTHING. They AREN’T TRUE.
But let’s forget that for a moment, because at this juncture Mr. Dalek does the unthinkable: HE SLANDERS KITTIES.
Specifically, the very large kitties known as lionesses.
Lionesses don’t particularly care when the male of the pride is killed by a new, younger male and then kills the cubs. They go on about like nothing’s changed.
DUDE.
Do you not watch Animal Planet? Lionesses are some of the baddest bitches of the animal kingdom and they will seriously fuck you up if you even get near their cubs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djbLLQNWdis
Now, despite the fact that human women aren’t lionesses, and that lionesses don’t actually act the way he thinks they do, Mr. Dalek decides to go ahead and draw this conclusion anyway:
[M]ost women are not evil, they are un-empathetic to men’s plight, and heartlessly oblivious to our suffering.
Oh, and if you thought the poor, harried caveman had it bad, well, dudes today have it like a zillion times worse.
[W]e have the odds against us, but the gynocentric westerns society turns it up several notches. Every harmful aspect of male nature are restrained and kept well-checked by the law. That’s why most men are not murderers, though many men are perfectly capable of murder. …
But no such social or legal protection exists against harmful aspects of female nature- women’s tendency to take advantage of men, their actions that drive men to harm themselves and others, and the systems built over men’s corpses for the exclusive benefit of women.
Quick question dude: if you build civilization on a foundation of male corpses, won’t it start to smell a bit? I mean, I had a squirrel or something die in my wall once, and that was pretty much the nastiest smell I’ve ever met.
Well, the second nastiest. One time a roommate of mine left a potato in a plastic bag in the summer heat, and it sort of liquified. You’d think that the resulting stench might have a hard time making it through an apparently airtight plastic bag. Nope. I hope that I never have to smell anything that horrific ever again.
But I digress. Back to Mr. Dalek. Where were we? Oh, yeah, the part where he said ridiculous shit about women.
Combine this with the fact that women are unsympathetic towards men, and we have the perfect recipe for disaster.
Dude, I really don’t think that most women are unsympathetic to men. They might be unsympathetic to you, but that probably has something to do with the fact that you post long screeds on the internet about how women are a bunch of heartless monsters who don’t even care about their lion cubs, or whatever.
Women are oblivious to the harms they cause, and any voice trying to educate them are muffled and marginalized, and women are encouraged to engage in their careless ways by the society, of course, at the expense of men.
My deepest sympathies go out to any woman who’s had to listen to this dude trying to “educate” her on the alleged deficiencies of her “female nature.”
So, no, I don’t hate women…. they are just completely, and irredeemably unlovable.
If that’s what you say about people you don’t hate, what on earth do you say to those you do?
The only logical thing for men to do is to educate themselves and each other, and stay away from women as much as possible. Find ways to discipline one’s sexual neediness- through practices like martial arts, meditation or things like working out that’ll leave you too tired to be horny. But what ever you do- do not touch a female with a (your) ten-foot pole.
I guess I have to give him a few extra points for managing to work in a jokey reference to his apparently gigantic penis at the end there.
Does every dude in the manosphere have penis on the brain these days?
Looking through Mr. Dalek’s comment history on Reddit, I see that he’s really looking forward to a world in which these nasty female things lose their monopoly in the reproduction business and are thus no longer necessary in order for our species to survive.
If all the women disappeared from the world, I’m certain that the Men of the world will pool together all the resources, to create artificial wombs, and genetically engineer babies. It might take a few years, but I’m sure if all of humanity (minus women) strive for this one goal of rescuing the species, it will happen. Since men carry X chromosomes, we will be able to bring women back if we choose to…
This is the stuff that MGTOW dreams are made of.
Now what do you think will happen if all the men disappear one day?
Uh, Hooters goes out of business? Hillary Clinton defeats Carly Fiorina in a landslide? I won’t have any more material for my blog?
NOTE: Yes, I am aware that gibbons are not technically monkeys but apes.
Inspired by the little conversation just had, I’ve changed my Gravatar to something more appropriate!
Also, I do wish MGTOWS and the like wouldn’t use lions in their examples. Lions do not deserve this great injustice. Then again, I wish they didn’t give examples at all, or give anything at all for that matter.
“But what ever you do- do not touch a female with a (your) ten-foot pole.”
This just stunned me – I’m not sure if he really hates women or hates the fact he wants to have sex with them. The self loathing is strong with this one.
And this is why the vast majority of MGTOW screeds make me think that the author’s 15 –
MEN ALL WANT TO FUCK AND KILL AND KILL AND FUCK ALL THE TIME
Yeah…puberty’s hard*.
Sorry the really popular girls don’t like you and some of the jocks…er, I mean “Chads” are kind of assholes.
* I don’t actually think that all teenage boys think this way, but I am under the impression that it’s an exceptionally difficult time for many boys and even the most thoughtful and careful among them are subject to some pretty extreme feelings / urges.
Given that, yeah…the OP’s suggestion to get into martial arts, meditation, or work (especially physically strenuous work) might actually help.
Ok, so when they say “all men disappear” I tend to assume that means “all humans with a Y chromosome die of a horrible disease.” Otherwise, yeah, breeding wouldn’t be as much of a problem.
But I think there is a really simple solution to “all men disappear.” Sperm banks. Women get inseminated using the stored sperm. Close to half of the babies born will grow up to be men. Problem solved, no new science or tech needed.
the doctor is in!
it kinda blows my mind a bit that oppression of women leads to so much more men hating women than women hating men…. women grow up taught to admire men, men are taught to hate women…
but still, even women who have been brutalized by men repeatedly dont hate men like this.
Otherwise…yeah, some other advice that might be helpful to the OP:
* Stop getting your science from Reddit.
Just stawp.
But der are scientists on Reddit!
Yeah, I’m sure there are. Scientists are people. Some people post on Reddit.
But I’m also sure that there are also a number of people claiming to be scientists (or scientists knowledgeable in a given field) who aren’t.
Read peer-reviewed papers. Or, hell, at least books and then knowledgeable scuttlebutt about those books.
* Try to view people as individuals rather than as part of a group.
Yeah, yeah – I know that I just broke my own rule (“teenage boys”), but that is based upon actual testimony regarding the subjective effects of a sudden upsurge in testosterone production given to me by people who have been teenage boys (or, in one case, a trans FtM).
If a man or boy tells me that that’s not there experience, I won’t say, “NUH UH! Your MALE and so it MUST HAVE been THIS WAY for you!!!”
There was more in my mind, but I’m suddenly tired and have some elves to move* + other assorted chores.
But I have A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms on audiobook, so at least I have that going for me.
* Elf on the Shelf – we have two. They usually move during the day because that’s when the preschooler’s asleep and the big kids are in school…and I just don’t feel like doing anything except watching silly TV, playing Fallout 4, or getting frisky with the Mr after we finally get everyone in bed.
Another day, another lonely dude who doesn’t want to brush his teeth or learn how to make small talk or do something nice for someone else just because.
And who blames his loneliness on another group of people who are mostly ignoring him while going about the messy, challenging project of living.
Why oh why won’t an exemplar of The Other come to his rescue, taking away his loneliness and horniness and explaining to his mom that he’s actually a very smart and ambitious guy who will be getting a job very, very soon!
Wait, one more thing.
I don’t know if anyone’s interested, but I’m going to do my due diligence as an MST3K fan. But I’m also lazy and tired, so I’m just going to c/p from my half-assed FB post:
This is my last* posting about this, but #BringBackMST3K will end this Friday! They’ve almost raised enough for 9 new episodes!
With hookers and blow!
No, wait…I mean – With Patton Oswald and Felicia Day!
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mst3k/bringbackmst3k/posts/1423502
* This actually probably isn’t my last posting.
Another is that most of these “just-so” stories operate under the assumption that men and women are different species who followed different evolutionary paths. (That whole “women are from Omicron-Persei 7, men are from Omicron-Persei 9” crap.)
Oh, look!
This is the perfect example: men evolved to do something, but women didn’t. Because men have baby boys and women have baby girls, I suppose.
Claiming that “men” evolved one way but women didn’t is as stupid as saying that Parisians evolved to like baguettes while Germans evolved to like sauerkraut.
In other newz, Mammothers, when I opened up this website, I got some ads in the right margin that included a photo of BradBradBradBradBradPittPittPittPittPitt! (Is there an echo in here?)
You know, the manosphere’s nemesis? ‘Cause he’s so cute and all.
I took it as a sign that Brad is seriously interested in me. (Yes, he was photographed with Angelina, his new wife, but whatevs.)
So excited!
I’m pretty sure that he and I will be spending Christmas in Hawaii. He can leave his wife and kids at home.
@Luzbelitx
Thanks for taking on that extremely worthwhile (and unpaid) work.
And I’m happy for you and the trans girl that you’re both hanging out with someone cool.
Do you mean all men, or just your definition of “men”?
Because if it’s the latter, I’d be more than happy with all y’all fucking right off and “disappearing”. It’d make my life a hell of a lot happier knowing that you disturbingly misguided fuck baskets were long gone, that’s for damn sure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJMqdTr7IQM&ab_channel=ryancustard13
Y’all, I’m a Hufflepuff, but #NotAllSlytherins damnit.
@ Fruitloopsie
Still one of my favorite essays:
http://aidanmoher.com/blog/featured-article/2013/05/we-have-always-fought-challenging-the-women-cattle-and-slaves-narrative-by-kameron-hurley/
Fun Fact: There’s many anthropologists who think that “hunter-gatherer” societies should instead be called “gatherer-hunter” societies because this is a better reflection of the work distribution. It’s estimated that the gatherer’s (the women) made up 60-80 percent of the society’s diet. Some of the sources I looked at even suggested that the gathered food was more important to the tribe’s diet than meat gained from hunting. So sorry, MGTOWs; we gathered the fruit for you (and nuts, berries, and other miscallaneous gathering things).
Aww, poor Dalek — so many words, so little brain.
But the lionesses videos are seriously badass. And the BBC filmmaker dude gushing over the brave mom in the second one must be the biggest white knight mangina ever. Obviously he believes that by appreciating the feeemale’s skills and courage he’ll get to sleep with her, because what else.
Upon reading this, my first thought was, “Did you really just call them ‘bitches’? Cats are queens.”
(Yes I know what you meant.)
This guy really doesn’t understand biology or reproduction, does he (but then what MGTOW or person of his ilk does)? Who the hell dreams of a world of sausage fest and genetically engineered babies? Come on. And then what about transgendered people and hermaphrodites? Where would they fit in in this fantasy world of his?There are, after all, 40+ known intersex conditions. The world really isn’t black and white. Boys who are physically female until puberty, physical boys with XX chromosomes, physical girls with XY chromosomes, people born with XXY, or XXYY, people born with both male and female internal organs, or neither, or began to partially develop into males but actually stayed female/gender neutral in the womb…..in short, this guy’s weird fantasies are……well, just weird fantasies. He can’t lie to himself, if he is straight, he’ll want to have sex with women, no matter how much of this “meditating” he does.
It must be pretty miserable, having your whole life consumed by hatred for about half of the whole human race. I just don’t understand where it comes from. If it’s bitterness, he needs to accept that because a few women rejected him, it doesn’t make all women evil monkeys swinging from tree to tree to find new and better mates. Lol.
And curiously, the pre-programmed reactions are exactly those that happen to favour those especially privileged in society. And, curiously, that group usually includes “evolutionary psychologists”.
Ahh, the evo-psyche. Apart from the food gathering issues where we know that gathering provided reliable food, I came across another fun gem a while back from a biologist suggesting that a possible reason mostly males hunted (in itself, not proven) was that one can afford to lose an extra male, but not an extra female as far as reproduction goes. In some cultures, hunting was a low status activity for those who were not able to adequately care for children.
I am fascinated by this idea that dudes are bringing back food and caring for incapacitated ‘females’. I’ve actually talked to members of hunter-gatherer societies and 1) if anyone was actually incapacitated, pretty much everyone would help out since you know, friends, and family are highly important and chances were that grandpa or grandma would be moving heaven and earth to assist 2) a lot of pregnant women would then be extremely busy making items that would be useful with a small baby around. In other words, they were back at the home base working like hell. Plus there are celebrations, gifts…the baby just doesn’t appear out of nowhere to be a burden, it’s the center of the whole damn system.
What do I suppose will happen if men disappear?
Well,
1) isn’t the Y chromosome gradually deteriorating?
2) we could always make like that one species of whiptail lizard and reproduce via parthenogenesis
3) trans women, agender folks and everyone in between would still exist. “No (cis) men” doesn’t mean “no sperm”.
So, how long until a manospherian uses David’s
as evidence that David is in fact not a mangina, but, even worse, a woman? Because if all the men disappear, then David disappears as well, so he wouldn’t be able to update his blog anyway, therefore… gasp!
(Using the manosphere’s definitions of “man” and “woman,” of course.)
But what happened to the lion cubs in the video??? Also, weren’t our ancestors more focused on like surviving than dividing up tasks by gender?
It’s even more hilarious when people like the OP don’t even pretend to base their stories on actual anthropological data. They reverse-engineer history based on what they see around them, which allows them to make definitive statements about our ancestors behaved. Miraculously, it always conforms neatly to their personal biases and perceptions. To hear them tell it, the savannah of 2 million years ago was a high school locker room, with lions.
True fact: 80% of cave-cheerleaders dated 20% of cave-jocks.
Also, who would take care of the infants grown in these artificial wombs? These guys. Yeah, ok.
This doesn’t make sense. Wouldn’t a woman want to ensure the survival of her provider?