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MGTOW Science Korner: Men Are the Primary Victims of Female Nature, What With All the Babies and Whatnot

Greedy female monkey-branching to a stronger, better provider
Single mom monkey-branching to a stronger, better provider

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One of the standard critiques of Evo Psych is that it’s a collection of “just-so” stories.

That is, the practitioner of Evo Psych takes a look at the admittedly fragmentary data we have about human existence in the long ago and far away Environment of Evolutionary Adaptation, makes up a story that seems like it might explain what was going on, and — ta da! — we have a brave new truth about human nature that carries the imprimatur of Science.

Well, the aspiring Evo Psychologists of the manosphere take this ingenious strategy one step further: instead of making up a story that seems to fit the data, they just make up the data as well.

Take, for example, the wall-of-text disquisition on “female nature” that one Redditor recently posted on the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit. LonelyDalek starts off by noting that human beings are in fact a kind of animal, driven at a basic level by our biological instincts to survive and reproduce.

As Mr. Dalek sees it, men sort of specialized in surviving, while women concentrated on the reproducing.

Males’ role in the ancient nomadic life-style was that of hunters and gatherers – so men’s biology leans towards self-preservation a little more.

Yes, that’s right, ladies: WE HUNTED THE MAMMOTH TO FEED YOU, and the thoughtful cave men even brought back some tasty berries for dessert, while their lazy cave wives sat around all day nibbling on prehistoric bon bons and occasionally checking to make sure their babies hadn’t been eaten by a dinosaur or something.

Or so goes the theory. In fact, as far as we can tell, women in hunter-gatherer societies probably did most of the gathering, and possibly a lot of the hunting as well. Whatever the distribution of labor, hunting-and-gathering-wise, women were certainly bringing home their share of the food.

But Mr. Dalek is has already moved on to his conclusion: that men, as hunters and protectors of women, tended to be a lot more willing to resort to violence than their female counterparts. And so, as he sees it, “the primary victims of male nature, thus, are not the other gender,” but other men who are cruising for a bruising.

Apparently Mr. Dalek has forgotten about that whole caveman-dragging-a-woman-by-her-hair meme, which used to be all the rage amongst hack cartoonists.

But it’s when Mr. Dalek gets to women that his just-so-storytelling goes completely into fantasyland.

The primary victims of female nature ARE men. Women’s nature is procreation oriented, because it is their bodies that carry the wombs to gestate and deliver the next generation. It seeks to secure a stable inflow of resources while being incapacitated in the process of child-rearing.

“It?”

This makes men,the resource-procurers, the primary targets of female nature.

Yep, women “target” men by expecting them to contribute something to the upbringing of the children they’ve fathered.

In this paradigm of things, there is no incentive for the women to actually give a damn about the well-being of the man/men providing for her; in fact, it is in her best interest to not be attached to a single man in particular, but keep monkey-branching to a stronger, better provider.

Uh, that is not actually how the world works. Or how it ever worked. These stories you guys tell each other again and again and again are based on NOTHING. They AREN’T TRUE.

But let’s forget that for a moment, because at this juncture Mr. Dalek does the unthinkable: HE SLANDERS KITTIES.

Specifically, the very large kitties known as lionesses.

Lionesses don’t particularly care when the male of the pride is killed by a new, younger male and then kills the cubs. They go on about like nothing’s changed.

DUDE.

Do you not watch Animal Planet? Lionesses are some of the baddest bitches of the animal kingdom and they will seriously fuck you up if you even get near their cubs.

 

Now, despite the fact that human women aren’t lionesses, and that lionesses don’t actually act the way he thinks they do, Mr. Dalek decides to go ahead and draw this conclusion anyway:

[M]ost women are not evil, they are un-empathetic to men’s plight, and heartlessly oblivious to our suffering.

Oh, and if you thought the poor, harried caveman had it bad, well, dudes today have it like a zillion times worse.

[W]e have the odds against us, but the gynocentric westerns society turns it up several notches. Every harmful aspect of male nature are restrained and kept well-checked by the law. That’s why most men are not murderers, though many men are perfectly capable of murder. …

But no such social or legal protection exists against harmful aspects of female nature- women’s tendency to take advantage of men, their actions that drive men to harm themselves and others, and the systems built over men’s corpses for the exclusive benefit of women.

Quick question dude: if you build civilization on a foundation of male corpses, won’t it start to smell a bit? I mean, I had a squirrel or something die in my wall once, and that was pretty much the nastiest smell I’ve ever met.

Well, the second nastiest. One time a roommate of mine left a potato in a plastic bag in the summer heat, and it sort of liquified. You’d think that the resulting stench might have a hard time making it through an apparently airtight plastic bag. Nope. I hope that I never have to smell anything that horrific ever again.

But I digress. Back to Mr. Dalek. Where were we? Oh, yeah, the part where he said ridiculous shit about women.

Combine this with the fact that women are unsympathetic towards men, and we have the perfect recipe for disaster.

Dude, I really don’t think that most women are unsympathetic to men. They might be unsympathetic to you, but that probably has something to do with the fact that you post long screeds on the internet about how women are a bunch of heartless monsters who don’t even care about their lion cubs, or whatever.

Women are oblivious to the harms they cause, and any voice trying to educate them are muffled and marginalized, and women are encouraged to engage in their careless ways by the society, of course, at the expense of men.

My deepest sympathies go out to any woman who’s had to listen to this dude trying to “educate” her on the alleged deficiencies of her “female nature.”

So, no, I don’t hate women…. they are just completely, and irredeemably unlovable.

If that’s what you say about people you don’t hate, what on earth do you say to those you do?

The only logical thing for men to do is to educate themselves and each other, and stay away from women as much as possible. Find ways to discipline one’s sexual neediness- through practices like martial arts, meditation or things like working out that’ll leave you too tired to be horny. But what ever you do- do not touch a female with a (your) ten-foot pole.

I guess I have to give him a few extra points for managing to work in a jokey reference to his apparently gigantic penis at the end there.

Does every dude in the manosphere have penis on the brain these days?

Looking through Mr. Dalek’s comment history on Reddit, I see that he’s really looking forward to a world in which these nasty female things lose their monopoly in the reproduction business and are thus no longer necessary in order for our species to survive.

If all the women disappeared from the world, I’m certain that the Men of the world will pool together all the resources, to create artificial wombs, and genetically engineer babies. It might take a few years, but I’m sure if all of humanity (minus women) strive for this one goal of rescuing the species, it will happen. Since men carry X chromosomes, we will be able to bring women back if we choose to…

This is the stuff that MGTOW dreams are made of.

Now what do you think will happen if all the men disappear one day?

Uh, Hooters goes out of business? Hillary Clinton defeats Carly Fiorina in a landslide? I won’t have any more material for my blog?

NOTE: Yes, I am aware that gibbons are not technically monkeys but apes.

 

 

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Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
4 years ago

We aren’t even that sexual dimorphic. 😐 Like, maybe if we were like spiders and shit their theories could fly but nope.

And from a biological standpoint, a lot of what we see as human sexual dimorphism is really just the result of people being forced into strict gender roles.

rugbyyogi
rugbyyogi
4 years ago

We’re more sexually dimorphic than house cats or dogs, but maybe mid-range for primates.

DaveL
DaveL
4 years ago

I don’t get it. So, to recap, when we say somebody is victimized by a man’s nature, we mean he got beaten to a pulp, but when someone is victimized by a woman’s nature it means she had consensual sex with them and gave them children? But in the near future women will be unnecessary to reproduction, so men can victimize themselves, only without the sex?

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
4 years ago

[quote]So the males are mostly freeloaders eating bonbons, whose main purpose is to keep other males off their back. Like a protection racket.[/quote]

Isn’t that part a bit exagerated ? IIRC the males serve to hunt some kind of game because of their bigger body mass ; and definitely protect a lot against predators and intimidate concurrents.

Also, solitary lions tend to not actually have problem surviving, which mean they aren’t bad at hunting. And, as usual, gendered roles in animals are often less gendered than pop science say they are. As if the world were a complicated place.

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
4 years ago

I’m really impressed with the lionesses in the first video, but it ends on a cliffhanger. What happened to them, did the jerk brother lions come back or did they keep them away?

WeirwoodTreeHugger
WeirwoodTreeHugger
4 years ago

I think female domestic cats might be better hunters too. Admittedly, this is based on a very small sample size of the cats I’ve lived with. The females would catch and kill the bugs in the house. The males just sit there and look at them. The female cats have been more territorial too.

Of course, my male cats have been neutered. So maybe the issue is they’ve been emasculated by the evil misandric veterinarian industrial complex.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
4 years ago

That’s been my experience with my cats, too. The one male we’ve had was a lazy asshole who never hunted anything but would constantly pick fights with other cats; the females were quiet unassuming things by day and mass murderers by night.

Tessa
Tessa
4 years ago

Ohlmann

Isn’t that part a bit exagerated ? IIRC the males serve to hunt some kind of game because of their bigger body mass ; and definitely protect a lot against predators and intimidate concurrents.

Also, solitary lions tend to not actually have problem surviving, which mean they aren’t bad at hunting. And, as usual, gendered roles in animals are often less gendered than pop science say they are. As if the world were a complicated place.

I didn’t say they didn’t hunt, I said they help with about 15% in a pride. And lionesses can hunt the same game lions can.

Also, what predators do lionesses need protection from?

richardbillericay
richardbillericay
4 years ago

Lionesses don’t particularly care when the male of the pride is killed by a new, younger male and then kills the cubs. They go on about like nothing’s changed.

Even if that would be true, so what? If any species can be included will-nilly, why doesn’t he just go straight in with “The female praying mantis EATS THE MALE DURING SEX! So there!”. Or even better, “the female Black Widow spider ALSO EATS THE MALE DURING SEX, and is HIGHLY POISONOUS! QED!” Of course, the male lion is really cut-up about having to kill the cubs, incidentally /s

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
4 years ago

[blockquote]Also, what predators do lionesses need protection from?[/blockquote]

Crocodiles and hyenas mostly.

I mean, as in hunt, both lions and lioness can defend themselves. But lions tend to be better at that job.

Falconer
Falconer
4 years ago

@Argenti: I have it on Amazon Instant so I checked real quick and the Dalek doesn’t say “please” while it’s on screen; it can be heard begging while Clara gets into a fix with some Weeping Angels but if it said “please” then it got lost in the sound effects and the music.

Falconer
Falconer
4 years ago

@Chie:

I’m really impressed with the lionesses in the first video, but it ends on a cliffhanger. What happened to them, did the jerk brother lions come back or did they keep them away?

… Hang on, I’m mixing that clip up with an episode of Walking With Beasts in which a pair of saber cats run the old male off, then a megatherium runs them off a kill and one of the brothers dies, then the old male comes back in and whups the survivor.

@WWTH:

The females would catch and kill the bugs in the house. The males just sit there and look at them. The female cats have been more territorial too.

Obviously female cats have special bug-receptive cones in their eyes, allowing them to see more bugs than the males can! (sarcasm)

Swales
Swales
4 years ago

Now what do you think will happen if all the men disappear one day?

As I understand it, what happens is you wind up with a critically-acclaimed comic book series.

Imperator Kahlo
Imperator Kahlo
4 years ago

@EJ TOO and WWTH RE cats

My anecdata largely agrees with your anecdata. The female cats I’ve owned have been ruthless huntresses, the males passive tubby lapcats*. Although my current little man bucks all the stereotypes and is a fanatic hunter of bugs, wistful gazer at outside birds and renowned cuddler.

*Which isn’t to say they weren’t badass in their own special way. One crept into the motor of the car for a nap and survived near decapitation and the loss of an ear and two toes when my mother started the engine.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
4 years ago

Thanks Falconer!

Also, what predators do lionesses need protection from?

Male lions. It really is a protection racket.

weirwoodtreehugger
weirwoodtreehugger
4 years ago

Now that we can embed images again, the thread needs this classic gif
http://38.media.tumblr.com/ed749a8637eaea0f05cfa38fc60bc0cf/tumblr_inline_mid93zOts71qz4rgp.gif

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

When I moved in with my boyfriend, he had two beautiful, adorable cats, a striped girl and a blue-eyed boy. The girl was more curious and smarter — much smarter — than the boy, who seemed to rely on his human dad (and his sister) to do all the thinking. Boy cat seemed to be quite capable of thinking, just not interested in it.

When I first arrived on the scene, boy cat ran and hid under the bed. Girl cat did too, but after the first visit she came out to meet her new mom. It took boy cat three visits from his new mom for him to venture out and meet the stranger (who then made the appropriate fuss over him).

Boy cat was mentally lazy, but he did enjoy shoving his sister off the cat tower. New mom put a quick end to that. In the process, new mom (that’s me!) cured the girl cat’s asthma. At least that’s my belief. I can’t find anything about this subject online, but I had an acupuncturist who said that asthma has a psychological component: not being able to speak up for yourself. (She also said that traditional Chinese medicine says that all illness has a psychological component.)

Those cats lived to be quite old. Now we have two other gorgeous, sweet cats, again a girl and a boy. The girl is much older than the boy, who loves to chase his sister. She enjoys it a lot less, due to her age and the fact that she’s got only three legs, the fourth leg having been surgically removed when she was a kitten.

This boy cat is far from lazy. He’s an orange little mountain lion, bold, and extremely smart. He’s also a mama’s boy — pet me! feed me! pet me again! — and a pain in the ass. But he’s a sweet boy.

Girl cat is large and extremely fluffy, and is not aggressive unless she feels threatened. Then she slashes and runs. She’s also incredibly brave. I know her previous person, so I know that she’s a survivor. I’m certain that she had to use all of her brains and all of her charm every day. Now she’s with us — our forever little girl — and I can only hope to one day have a fraction of her courage.

Bina
4 years ago

If you think mama lions are badass, wait’ll you see mama kittycats:

Srsly, the size differential between her and that big male dog puts the lion/lioness fights to shame.

ETA: shit, the video didn’t embed? Bummer.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
4 years ago

Man, that mama cat slid right into her kitten to get at the dog’s face, no fucks were given. Well, fucks were given, to the dog, in pointy form.

Pissing off mammalian mothers is a bad idea in general really. Bears will eat your face, house cats will attempt to rip it off, even the herbivores like deer and rabbits will get between you and their young so the offspring can make a run for it.

Brb with baby moose.

Back with moose:

http://youtu.be/yNy9jTeolUk

Bina
4 years ago

Aaaand now the video hath embedded. WTF?

(Not that this site isn’t looking damn spiffy, mind you. The improved readability is a real plus!)

weirwoodtreehugger
weirwoodtreehugger
4 years ago

Our childhood cat Clio was spayed as a kitten so she was never a mom cat, but she still had the instincts. The dog across the street, a German shepherd named Louis was a bit mean and scary due to having an asshole human. Once he got loose and was threatening my boy cat Whiskers. Clio ran out and kicked Louis’ ass causing him to run away. Just like that video. Whiskers was my cat and my all time favorite, but Clio was pretty damn awesome too. For a vain, impeccably clean, and often timid cat, she sure knew how to defend her territory and family.

To add to her awesomeness, she was a polydactyl.

Bina
4 years ago

Also, I just had to take issue with this:

Males’ role in the ancient nomadic life-style was that of hunters and gatherers – so men’s biology leans towards self-preservation a little more.

Ha ha ha BULLSHIT.

As has been pointed out abundantly above, men and women BOTH hunted and gathered. We may never know who did which more, but all signs point to a joint effort, so.

Also, evidence points to the probability that women invented agriculture so that there would be a steady supply of grains to ferment so that everyone could have beer. Delicious, nutritious, thirst-quenching, buzz-generating beer. Did I mention beer? Mmmmmm, beer.

PS: Argenti, you might be interested in this. Seems that deer are not so herbivorous after all!

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Jackie; currently using they/their, he/his pronouns)
4 years ago

Awww, Mama Moose started giving babby moose a bath.

Also, I saw that turtle sandbox. I had one as a kid.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
4 years ago

Deer eat meat? How about some giant tortoises nomming on some dead thing?

I hope that doesn’t embed, cuz it’s just as gross as it sounds. And I think they’re sulcatas, cuz they don’t look like any of the Giant Tortoises, but I could be wrong there…but if I’m right, watch out for extra large pet tortoises, cuz apparently they aren’t just 100+ lbs battering rams, but will eat you once they knock you over! (Hell, my 8″ guy tried eating my finger once, their bite strength is impressive)

No code bar when editing, fuck me.

I give up! http://i.imgur.com/37ogzVI.jpg

A Land Whale
A Land Whale
4 years ago

This guy doesn’t know anything about lionesses or basic human biology. If anything so catastrophic happens to literally wipe out women, the men that are left will be too busy trying to survive, trying to allocate resources, trying to reestablish farming in a decimated landscape, and fighting off each other to worry about creating fake wombs in some laboratory that they no longer have the electricity to run. Besides, where the hell are they going to get the eggs? Even if they had fake wombs those wombs have to have eggs in them. To you have eggs, duh, you need a female! With ovaries! Jesus, did you flunk out of second grade biology?!

Though, we use pig hearts, I don’t see why we wouldn’t use pig wombs… assuming that whatever this huge catastrophe that wiped out women didn’t also wiped out pigs….And it wouldn’t surprise me to know that a lot of these men are already pig fuckers….

In all seriousness, if something that catastrophic did happen and 50 people survived, 49 of them men, one of them a woman, not only would she be the most miserable woman to ever live because she would likely be getting raped and pregnant pretty goddamn regularly, the species would not have a very good chance. The best she could have about one baby a year. And that’s assuming she’s healthy, of reproductive age, and able to conceive. If there were to be 49 women and one man not only would the species have a much better chance, but that he would be the happiest man to ever live.

Sorry, dudebro, from a purely biological standpoint, women are much more important than men. Could that be why you try so hard to subjugate us? Because deep down you know that biologically you’re completely disposable and no matter how much you defame women, abuse women, subjugate women, torture women, rape women, murder women, you will NEVER have as much control over life…literal, actual LIFE…as women do?

Freud talked about women being all fucked off because we have penis envy, but all evidence suggests that it’s quite the opposite. Men very clearly have womb envy, especially men like this.

mockingbird
mockingbird
4 years ago

Oh, this search pulled up a GIF for Walter:

comment image

richardbillericay
richardbillericay
4 years ago

I’ll just leave this here:

mockingbird
mockingbird
4 years ago

Nothing showed up, Richard.

FYI: Things with HTML tagging seem to simply disappear on this new site.
Direct links work best.

(Now, anyway. Yay, funny GIFs and random pictures!)

GenJones
GenJones
4 years ago

The very first quote gets two things wrong right off the bat. In both nomadic cultures and other primates it is females who are the gatherers and provide the bulk of the nutrition while males hunt occasionally to provide supplementary protein. It is also mostly false that men have a better sense of self preservation. One of the reasons boys and young men tend to seriously injure themselves more often with reckless stunts is because their amygdala is not fully developed until they are adults, impairing their cognitive ability to assess risks. Watch any “fail compilation” and note gender ratio.

My observations on kitty behavior concur with other findings. The females are the ones hunting and bringing home the bacon (and lizards, birds, etc) while the male cat doesn’t pull his weight except to challenge territory with the neighboring male cat. It’s literally a pissing contest.

richardbillericay
richardbillericay
4 years ago

I should say that link is to an article which argues (quite cogently in my opinion) that nearly all evo psych is unproven and unreliable.

Dalillama
Dalillama
4 years ago

I gotta say, I do not normally associate chasing megafauna with pointed sticks with a strong sense of self preservation; that shit’s dangerous.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
4 years ago

@GenJones

[CitationNeeded] on the amygdala explanation of why men do dumb things. The alternate hypothesis, that it’s due to socialisation of men to be reckless in order to gain status, strikes me as far more likely.

I mean, I agree with you that young men in our society do do dumb things a lot in order to impress one another and women; I just think I disagree about it being biological in nature, and therefore about it being true in all societies.

mockingbird
mockingbird
4 years ago

In other news (which isn’t really news to actual anthropologists or even people who took a few anthropology classes as undergrads):

http://bigthink.com/ideafeed/early-men-and-women-were-equal-says-new-study?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook

mockingbird
mockingbird
4 years ago

@richard – That post looks interesting, though it’s a bit long for me to get into just now (on an uncharacteristically lovely day).
But, yeah, EvoPsych can lead to some terribly interesting thought experiments and probably does have some legitimate applications, especially where health and nutrition are concerned, but it does usually simply result in a web of just-so stories that holds up only as long as you believe its central conclusions from the get-go.