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We Need to Talk About Donald

Let's not elect this dude
Let’s not elect this guy to anything

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In July, The Huffington Post puckishly announced that it would put its coverage of Republican presidential wannabe Donald Trump in its “entertainment” section, because, for all the noise he was making, they considered his campaign little more than a “sideshow.”

Yesterday, in the wake of Trump’s alarming call for a “total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States,” Arianna Huffington reversed that decision, declaring that she was “no longer entertained” by Trump’s campaign, which has “morphed into … an ugly and dangerous force in American politics.”

Huffington is not the only one who’s taking the threat of Trump more seriously these days, and for good reason. I find myself wondering, quite seriously: is this how Fascism in the US will begin?

And I don’t think I’m Godwinning myself here. While Trump isn’t a true fascist ideologue, I don’t think, there are definitely fascistic elements to his campaign, and to his popular appeal; it’s not for nothing that the neo-Nazis I sometimes write about on this blog are almost to a man big Trump fans. Indeed, the rather frighteningly popular Daily Stormer — a site that gets far more traffic than any manosphere blog — responded to Trump’s proposed ban on Muslim immigration thusly:

Islam – 0/5 would not allow.

Get all of these monkeys the hell out of our country – now!

Heil Donald Trump – THE ULTIMATE SAVIOR.

While all this is a little bit outside the purview of this blog, I thought I would share some of what I’ve been reading about Trump and his relationship to the “f word” and open up a discussion on the subject. Because this guy isn’t going away any time soon.

Donald Trump Is a Fascist

In Slate, Jamelle Bouie, drawing from a classic Umberto Eco essay on the essence of fascism, argues that the f-word “is the political label that best describes what the GOP front-runner has become.”

Donald Trump May Not Be a Fascist, But He is Leading Us Merrily Down That Path

In a long and thoughtful post examining the fascistic elements of Trump’s campaign, investigative journalist and long-time right-wing watcher David Neiwert argues that

Donald Trump may not be a fascist, but his vicious brand of right-wing populism is not just empowering the latent fascist elements in America, he is leading a whole nation of followers merrily down a path that leads directly to fascism. 

This is an absolutely essential read, filled with links that help to put Trump’s campaign in a broader perspective.

It’s not just Trump: Islamophobia in America is spiraling out of control

In a long and chilling post on Vox, Max Fischer chronicles the recent spread of Islamophobia in the US, arguing that

Trump is just the tip of an iceberg that runs much deeper than many Americans would like to believe. America’s climate of anti-Muslim hatred and fear, a form of bigotry known as Islamophobia, is rampaging out of control. And it has very real and legitimately scary implications for the millions of Americans who follow Islam.

95,000 Words, Many of Them Ominous, From Donald Trump’s Tongue

Two New York Times writers, with the help of several academics, analyse a week’s worth of public utterances from Trump to understand the patterns in his demagoguery.

Donald Trump is the Gamergate of Republican politics

An interesting comparison from the Washington Post’s Alyssa Rosenberg.

18 Real Things Donald Trump Has Actually Said About Women

To return to the main theme of this blog, a little collection of some of Trump’s more misogynistic quotes.

Discuss.

 

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Laughing Witch
Laughing Witch
4 years ago

Here is a great post about his fascism in case no one else saw it.
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2015/11/donald-trump-may-not-be-fascist-but-he.html

long but well worth the read

tricyclist
tricyclist
4 years ago

The interesting thing about the Boris quote is he’s the nearest we’ve got to a right wing buffoon, and even he is laughing at Trump.

At least, if he wrote it himself. And if he did – I like him a hell of a lot better than I did before.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ tricyclist

Yeah, and they’ve both got notorious hair. Boris however is a genuinely smart guy. He’s also a lot more of an internationalist than Trump; check out some of his books.

Funnily enough Boris was born in New York.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

This poll, if correct, is a bit disconcerting.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/08/muslims-us-islam-islamophobia-data-polls

It beggars belief that anyone but an insignificant minority could consider Trump a plausible candidate; but we are talking about a country where Creationists aren’t laughed at by everybody. Some worrying possibilities as to how this might transpire. One keeps thinking that he’ll soon be yesterday’s news as people start concentrating on the rational candidates, then you realise there aren’t any.

PinkiSyddyKitty
PinkiSyddyKitty
4 years ago
Reply to  guy

Case in point: Billionaires throwing gazillions into GOP campaigns and Obama still getting a second-term, regardless.

Wetherby
Wetherby
4 years ago

The interesting thing about the Boris quote is he’s the nearest we’ve got to a right wing buffoon, and even he is laughing at Trump.

At least, if he wrote it himself. And if he did – I like him a hell of a lot better than I did before.

Oh, he certainly wrote it himself. He’s been a professional journalist for the better part of three decades (full time before turning to politics) and still has a regular newspaper column. He also has an extremely distinctive writing style, so I doubt very much that he gets an underling to do it.

It’s a measure of how surprisingly popular he is that an instinctively left-wing city like London (which normally favours Labour Party mayors and MPs) not merely elected him mayor but re-elected him four years later.

With regard to him being a buffoon, he’s a lot cleverer than he usually lets on. He’s conspicuously cleverer than David Cameron, for instance, which I suspect generates a fair amount of tension. But, like George W. Bush before him, he’s realised that pretending to be a buffoon is a great way of wrong-footing your opposition and making them misunderestimate you.

nparker
nparker
4 years ago

@PinkiSyddyKitty

I agree with your point, but could we refrain from using words such as ‘nuts’ and ‘insane’ to describe these people. As people here say a lot (never before said it myself!) ‘asshole is not a mental illness.’ Equating insanity with bad morals and sanity with good morals stigmatises those with true mental illnesses.

As to what you say, I agree! Its actually, to me, quite exciting to see that progressive forces are clearly working, and people against social justice are becoming less and less powerful in terms of what they can do to stem the tide.

It shows that despite a lot of hate going around, the world is becoming a more and more progressive, tolerant place- it feels like sexists and racists and all that lot are panicking because they know they’re not going to stop the people who are the real forces of progress in the world- and that’s really quite exciting!

Pear_tree
Pear_tree
4 years ago

Off topic, but worth noting that Reggie Yates’s program, Extreme UK, is covering the men’s rights movement next week.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06s5h18

I like Reggie Yates’s programs (he has covered Russia and South Africa before). He is such a nice guy and is so genuinely upset by the horrible people he meets. His program on race in Russia is very hard viewing though.

WeirwoodTreeHugger
WeirwoodTreeHugger
4 years ago

Even the leader of UKIP thought Trump has gone too far.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35037553
Scroll to the bottom of the article for the relevant quote.

History Nerd
History Nerd
4 years ago

What people seem to not get is that left vs. right isn’t really about big government vs. small government. Fascism usually follows a pattern of supporting a government controlled economy with a goal of benefiting the bourgeoisie. For instance, if you were unemployed and poor in Nazi Germany you had a choice of being sent to a labor camp or working long hours in a factory for very low wages. A big part of the economic policy centered around invading other countries and taking their resources and there was never any intention of helping poor people or increasing economic equality.

It’s true that fascists are not conservatives. They tend to dislike laissez faire economic policies and they prefer more of a gnostic dualist theology over traditional religion (and it’s arguable that parts of evangelicalism are more gnostic now). But they’re still on the right because they’re against pretty much everything the left stands for.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
4 years ago

@PearTree

I love Reggie Yates. He was a big part of CBBC when I was growing up and you’re right, he is a genuinely nice guy. Part of me takes an irrational concern that the show will adopt a Cassie Jay type stance and only show the clips where the MRAs sound almost reasonable. But the blurb on that page has already mentioned their online harassment against women, mentioned that Reggie talks to said women, and I highly doubt the Beeb will show any form of misogyny in a tolerant light. The clips also, look promising that the documentary will be a good, honest one.

I think then, that the programme might let the men speak for themselves and then we’ll all see what they really are. MRAs are, after all, incredibly good at making themselves look bad – just by speaking their true thoughts.

Also holy shit:

Reggie also encounters infamous self-styled pick-up artist Roosh V, who dishes out advice on how to have more sex with women – but doesn’t seem to like them very much.

I wonder what Roosh will say about this.

Janey
Janey
4 years ago

As an Australian watching news on America and its politics from half a world away, Donald Trump terrifies me. I am very glad that we got rid of Tony Abbott as our prime minister, before the two could meet and plan our countries’ mutual implosions. Tony Abbott was pretty terrible at relating to women also.

Considering migration to New Zealand. Who wants in?

History Nerd
History Nerd
4 years ago

To be optimistic, I’d say fascist political movements are a sign of the death throes of white supremacy and patriarchy in a culture. GamerGate is an example of a fascist movement that even has its own quasi-paramilitary force.

katz
4 years ago

To be optimistic, I’d say fascist political movements are a sign of the death throes of white supremacy and patriarchy in a culture. GamerGate is an example of a fascist movement that even has its own quasi-paramilitary force.

Well, yes and no. It’s a backlash against progressivism demonstrating a severe cultural divide. So whether it ends up being the last backlash of a movement doomed to cultural irrelevance or the first manifestation of a movement heading for cultural dominance — whether we’re talking black hundreds or black shirts — depends on whether it succeeds or not, which we can’t really predict except in retrospect.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
4 years ago

Even the leader of UKIP thought Trump has gone too far.

Can someone locate my eyes? I think they may’ve popped so hard that they launched into orbit.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
4 years ago

Considering migration to New Zealand. Who wants in?

Do they have your terrifying spiders? Cuz I’m never stepping foot on Australia, way too arachnophobic for that!

On topic — hell, even my conservative relatives are no longer surprised that Trump opening his mouth means stupid shit is being said, so I can only hope that the majority of republicans feel the same way.

Katz — my brief knowledge of world history says that retrograde views really only manage to take hold following serious crisis. Germany after WWI was a shit place to be, way shittier than we make the US out to be now (I say this looking at a 1-1.5k vet estimate and 20% credit APR, so yes, I’m aware shit sucks, but it’s a stable sort of suckage). Other than that it’s been things like the Black Death… basically, I don’t think America is currently shitty enough for retrograde asswipes to convince sufficient people that their retrograde views would return things to a better state.

Well, that and I really don’t want to predict how it will play out if we are gonna take that path. Maybe then I’d be willing to risk huntsman spiders.

History Nerd
History Nerd
4 years ago

I’d follow Slavoj Zizek and say that much of social progressivism and environmentalism right now is supported by people who tend to be more upper middle class (even myself, I’m not exactly rich but I’m working on an advanced degree in a STEM field). That means progressive politicians can have more of a capitalist orientation by default even if they support a strong welfare state on paper. Then the right wing populists know how to make themselves attractive to petit bourgeois folks.

Let’s just hope civil rights and the environment can survive the next 50-100 years.

weirwoodtreehugger
weirwoodtreehugger
4 years ago

my brief knowledge of world history says that retrograde views really only manage to take hold following serious crisis.

I don’t think Donald Trump would win in a general election now. I do think it’s possible with an October surprise though. Kind of like how Reagan got elected.

I still don’t think he’ll get the nomination though. Like I’ve said in other threads, the Republicans who answer the phone and take a national poll are not the same Republicans who will be motivated to vote/caucus in early primary states. Ted Cruz (not that he’s much better) is polling ahead of Trump in Iowa. Ultimately, the type of party activists who actually primary and caucus vote will take electability into account.

There’s also the possibility of a delegate rebellion at the convention if Trump did win the popular vote in the primaries. Presidential primaries aren’t binding. It’s the delegates who nominate the candidate. They just typically fall in line with the will of state voters.

Should be an interesting and scary 2016.

guy
guy
4 years ago

I don’t believe he’ll win the nomination, but he’s been exceeding what I’d believe possible for a while now. Delegate rebellion is somewhat possible; as I recall from last time the delegates from states are bound to support the chosen candidate in the first round of voting but there’s enough delegates who don’t represent states that he’d need a pretty clean sweep of the states to win in the first round if they oppose him.

History Nerd
History Nerd
4 years ago

I don’t think he’s electable. It’s just disturbing that he’s gotten this far.

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

Our cat is orange all over, yells a lot, and is quite unreasonable. He also manipulates women. His much older and wiser sister is the head cat in our house (appointed by Mom and Dad), and I’ve told the orange kitty that if he keeps up his behavior he’ll never get to be head cat, even if he’s the only cat. That’s how we nip fascism in the bud in our house. I recommend it.

(And to be fair to the orange kitty, he’s very cute and means no harm. And his family before us was a large Palestinian family, so he is completely down with Muslims.)

@pinkisyddikitty

Regardless what happens, I feel it’s just the growing pains before a new and better, more progressive world.

I like your worldview. Welcome!

@Laughing Witch
You’re back! I hope that things are looking up.

PinkiSyddyKitty
PinkiSyddyKitty
4 years ago

nparker
December 8, 2015 at 4:03 pm

@PinkiSyddyKitty

I agree with your point, but could we refrain from using words such as ‘nuts’ and ‘insane’ to describe these people. As people here say a lot (never before said it myself!) ‘asshole is not a mental illness.’ Equating insanity with bad morals and sanity with good morals stigmatises those with true mental illnesses.

As to what you say, I agree! Its actually, to me, quite exciting to see that progressive forces are clearly working, and people against social justice are becoming less and less powerful in terms of what they can do to stem the tide.

It shows that despite a lot of hate going around, the world is becoming a more and more progressive, tolerant place- it feels like sexists and racists and all that lot are panicking because they know they’re not going to stop the people who are the real forces of progress in the world- and that’s really quite exciting!

Whoops! I’m so sorry. I have to be more careful not to use euphemisms for mental illness to describe over-the-top people. My bad. Ironic since I myself have ADHD and emotional issues.

And I agree with you on all counts.

History Nerd
History Nerd
4 years ago

I think the Iowa caucus usually has a moderating effect on Republican candidates (at least hopefully).

katz
4 years ago

Oh, for sure; Donald’s not going to win and the whole thing will blow over for the moment at some point. The danger isn’t Trump literally becoming the next Hitler (especially since he doesn’t actually believe fascist ideology anyway). The danger is him normalizing this kind of discourse for the people who really do believe it.

PinkiSyddyKitty
PinkiSyddyKitty
4 years ago

katz
December 8, 2015 at 11:07 pm

Oh, for sure; Donald’s not going to win and the whole thing will blow over for the moment at some point. The danger isn’t Trump literally becoming the next Hitler (especially since he doesn’t actually believe fascist ideology anyway). The danger is him normalizing this kind of discourse for the people who really do believe it.

All the more reason for reasonable people to emphasize to the world how ridiculous stuff like Trump and others spew is.

abars01
abars01
4 years ago

While I know he isn’t stupid enough to go THAT far, there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever in my mind that if Trump were to say something like: “I’ll dump all the n*gg*rs, sp*cs, t*welheads, f*gg*ts, libtards, socialists, communists, race-hustlers, feminazis, betas, cuckolds, looters, moochers and parasites into pits, blow ’em up with nukes, and make America white again like the founding fathers intended!” at one of his rallies, the entire crowd would erupt into ecstatic cheers. The level of anger, hatred, bloodlust, paranoia and narcissism which has come to characterize western (especially American) Conservatism in the new millennium saddens and disgusts me…

Michael Lindsay
Michael Lindsay
4 years ago

It was really just a matter of time before someone like Trump emerged, the emergence of thuggish gangs of young men claiming to oppose Islam in the name of “patriotism” has become a feature on the streets of more western countries than the United States which has plenty. The othering that our politicians exploited to fight their foreign adventures in Afghanistan and Iraq is coming home to roost.

rugbyyogi
rugbyyogi
4 years ago

The danger is him normalizing this kind of discourse for the people who really do believe it.

I think this is the real problem with Trump. Not too long ago my high school history teacher with whom I’m friends on FB shared a particularly nasty and very racist video which basically equated Muslim immigration with the destruction of Western civilisation. The video itself wasn’t Stormfront, but it used a lot of clips that were probably sourced from there. (I dug around a little bit.) This is a person who I really respected and remembered fondly. I pointed out where the clips came from and he was unapologetic.

Having grown up in the Bible Belt, I viscerally understand the real and present danger of fundamentalist religion and clinging to ignorance. So I’m not afraid to voice my concerns (well maybe a little) about rising numbers of people who act in a similar manner without the benefit of already having come through the reformation and liberalisation of their religion. I think there are some clear parallels between the Christian puritan and end-of-times movements during the post-reformation period and where Sunni Islam is right now. (Except there’s oil money and much better information technology behind this particular religious turmoil.*) When we fail to realise this, we cannot even begin to address radicalisation and integration and broader issues of tolerance and equality for women, gay folk, people of different religions, etc and the need to embrace inclusive democratic values. San Bernardino was an attack on that diverse and inclusive democracy – the folks killed were the essential graft workers of modern society – the boring but necessary weights and measures, product safety, hygiene and food standards and public health type workers who work under democratically elected administrations.

So yes I’m concerned about the giant step away from enlightenment values by having larger numbers of adherents to an inherently sexist, evangelical (by book or sword) and puritanical religion into Europe. But when the dialogue degrades into exclusionism and racism that’s a giant step away from the values I hold and is just as dangerous.

_____
*Printing press tech did help drive the Puritan movements, but I’m not sure if there was a large influx of money, too. Perhaps this coincided with increased wealth from the New World and relative increases in wealth and earning power following periodic decreases in population due to plague? Anyway, I don’t want to live in a society like that – I grew up surrounded by neo-Puritan, Bible essentialists and that was bad enough, but at least they were SOMEWHAT tempered by the embrace of the US Constitution and free speech and democratic values – even if they had to be kicked into extending those rights and the franchise to everyone.

__
Edited to add – wow – that’s tl;dr

Wetherby
Wetherby
4 years ago

All the more reason for reasonable people to emphasize to the world how ridiculous stuff like Trump and others spew is.

Well, we’re doing our best on my side of the pond.

(The headline’s slightly misleading, though – we’ve been mocking Trump for a very long time; it’s not a sudden new development.)

Monzach
Monzach
4 years ago

@PinkiSyddyKitty

Hi and welcome to WHTM. I hope I’m not crossing any lines if I ask if you’re SpukiKitty from FSTDT? It’s just that your writing style is similar to hers and also she’s a big fan of Pinkie Pie and Syd Barrett. 🙂

As to the OP, well, I have to admit that when I first heard of Trump campaigning, I dismissed him completely. I even laughed at the cartoonish buffoonery and over-the-top statements. I’m not laughing anymore, though! I’d say that Trump doesn’t have a whelk’s chance in a supernova of getting elected, were the election held today, but a lot can happen in 11 months. Worrisome times.

By the way, I’ve always wondered about the very long election campaigns that happen in the United States. Over here (Finland), we only have campaign posters up for, like, two-three weeks before the election and even then most people are sick lf the talking heads by the time election rolls up.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ Walter

Consider this crude analogy:

Eagleland Condominioum Tenants Meeting

“OK, so the first order of business is…”

“Hey, can we talk about the janitor”

“”Please don’t interrupt. Now as I was…”

“But the janitor keeps beating me up”

“Well, if you’d care to look at the agenda you’ll see that we do have that as item 27”

“Oww! He’s doing it now!!”

“Ok, if you have any specific points to make about your particular circumstances you can raise it in ‘any other business’”

“Argh, he’s punching me!”

“Look, do you mind keeping the noise down. We need to look at the issue of next year’s rent. This affects you too you know so I don’t see why you don’t want to hear about it”

“He’s choking me!”

“OK, I see your point. Hang on”

“What the fuck are you doing?”

“I’m standing next to you”

“Never mind that. Get him off me!”

“Well, I’m not sure I can do that. You may have a problem with him; but he is very good at fixing my boiler”

“You’re an absolute *!#!*!**!**#!”

“Well, if you’re going to use language like that there’s clearly no point in continuing. Meeting adjourned.”

Vetarnias
Vetarnias
4 years ago

I’ve been saying this a few times by now, but even though I regard Trumpism as potentially fascistic, the closest similarity I can find is from before the term fascism was coined: the French presidential election of 1848, just after a revolution that had thrown out the Orléanist monarchy.

And who did the population vote for? The guy with the famous name: Louis-Napoléon Bonaparte.

And Bonaparte was by no means the candidate of the French establishment (it was Louis-Eugène Cavaignac, who had become very unpopular among the lower classes). Bonaparte (nephew of the other one) was the dark horse with a famous name who ran on a populist platform and won the election, with no less than three-quarters of the vote (male universal suffrage).

Bonaparte would soon start calling himself the Prince-President, but only temporarily, because before his term was meant to end, he staged a coup d’état and installed himself as Emperor Napoleon III. (He also loved to mess with Mexico, for what it’s worth.) It was already common knowledge that he had staged two failed coups under his belt before he was voted in — and still they voted for him.

The French remained so wary of seeing another president stage a coup this way that the president wouldn’t be elected directly by the population again until 1965, after a national referendum shortly after the end of the Algerian crisis.

————-

What I also want to say is that we shouldn’t call Trump ‘fascist’ only because he appears to have racist policies; Mussolini himself thought the idea of race itself ridiculous until Hitler started leaning on him to pass racial laws, in 1938.

Instead, I do believe Trumpism is fascistic because it is based on a personality cult, where Trump is seen as nothing less than the national personification of the U.S. And that in itself is dangerous.

But frankly I saw that Trump *had* to be taken seriously the moment he announced his candidacy. Where were the pundits then?

nparker
nparker
4 years ago

@PinkiSyddyKitty

Yes, I forgot- welcome to WHTM too! I’ve not been here long- still new- so I’m glad to see another new person.

@ Alan Robertshaw

The analogy fits rather well. Really, the ways of Walter and people who have those views are really just trying to take power away from and marginalise BLM (and other campaigns) while making a show of being more reasonable, when in reality…

WeirwoodTreeHugger
WeirwoodTreeHugger
4 years ago

Monzach,
We have long campaigns because of the money, basically. Campaign finance is fairly unregulated and candidates with a lot of money can and do spend ages campaigning.

Another issue is that major media companies see news as equivalent to their entertainment divisions. The news is expected to make a profit. Elections get ratings. So they cover them as much as possible.

Lastly, when it comes to presidential elections, states compete to hold their primaries or caucuses first so they can be influential. So the dates get earlier and earlier.

reimalebario
reimalebario
4 years ago

@Argenti (On UKIP thinking Trump is going too far): it’s really not that surprising. Europe’s far-right parties are all trying to paint themselves as moderate and reasonable. In the weeks up the last European Parliament elections, the Danish People’s Party (DF) were denouncing UKIP and FN as right wing extremists, Marine Le Pen denounced DF and UKIP as extremists and UKIP predictably denounced both DF and FN as extremist.
This is just a chance to paint themselves as more moderate and reasonable than they really are by denouncing something that they haven’t made themselves simply because they know how it would make them look – not because they don’t actually agree with it. I’m pretty sure individual UKIPpers have suggested similar things. Individual DF’ers certainly have.

David N-T
David N-T
4 years ago

@Argenti

Katz — my brief knowledge of world history says that retrograde views really only manage to take hold following serious crisis. Germany after WWI was a shit place to be, way shittier than we make the US out to be now (I say this looking at a 1-1.5k vet estimate and 20% credit APR, so yes, I’m aware shit sucks, but it’s a stable sort of suckage). Other than that it’s been things like the Black Death… basically, I don’t think America is currently shitty enough for retrograde asswipes to convince sufficient people that their retrograde views would return things to a better state.

I’m not quite so sure about that assessment. The US is unique in a number of manners. It’s been a major economic power for decades, yet still has levels of religious fundamentalism that are unlike anything in other industrialised nations. I’m willing to concede that crises help retrograde views gain traction (because a status quo proponent who says that everything is fine when it’s clearly not loses all credibility), but it’s neither necessary nor sufficient for it. The conquest of this continent was based on a massive genocide: as far as I know, there was no real crisis on the part of those committing it. What was the crisis that led to the massively retrograde Jim Crow laws? As far as I understand it, it’s more something that had been lurking in the background for some time and crept on and on until it became law of the land.

Kevin R.
4 years ago

@David N-T:

What was the crisis that led to the massively retrograde Jim Crow laws? As far as I understand it, it’s more something that had been lurking in the background for some time and crept on and on until it became law of the land.

The crisis that led to Jim Crow was the Reconstruction period. The Southern states depended on slavery to run their economies, so when that was outlawed, they would’ve been fucked even without the ravages of war coming in as well. Many people had lost their land, the old elite plantation families had seen their wealth (tied up in slave ownership) evaporate overnight, and the old social order had been violently uprooted. Backlash, in the form of Klan terrorism and the “Lost Cause” mythos that still poisons Southern politics today, emerged before the ink was dry on the peace treaty. By the mid 1870s, the North had essentially lost the will to keep fighting against the rampant terrorism in the South, and essentially cut a deal with the terrorists and handed them the region on a silver platter by ending the Reconstruction policies of enforcing civil rights in the South.

That’s how Jim Crow got started.

nparker
nparker
4 years ago

@ reimalebario

The problem with UKIP is that their policies are quite a bit more moderate, and I know that a lot of UKIP people have said things such as ‘we should let as many Syrian migrants in as possible’ or words to that effect, but its very nature means that it does attract quite a few politicians and followers who hold really terrible, racist views.

I don’t think the whole party is that far right, or racist even, but they have a terrible PR problem due to a lot of their support and members holding decidedly not-nice views.

@ WeirwoodTreeHugger

To me, from the perspective of someone in the UK, it seems really off that politicians running for US President can do massive campaigns when they have loads of money. It seems like a perversion of capitalism, and while not endangering the democratic nature of the system, it seems a bit like being wealthy can skew it. It just seems quite- I’m not sure I can think of the words, it just doesn’t seem right. (Then again, I don’t know that much of American politics, so there could be other factors I can’t comment on.)

PinkiSyddyKitty
PinkiSyddyKitty
4 years ago

Wetherby
December 9, 2015 at 2:15 am

All the more reason for reasonable people to emphasize to the world how ridiculous stuff like Trump and others spew is.

Well, we’re doing our best on my side of the pond.

(The headline’s slightly misleading, though – we’ve been mocking Trump for a very long time; it’s not a sudden new development.)

There’s progressive sources where I am doing the same.

Monzach
December 9, 2015 at 4:31 am

@PinkiSyddyKitty

Hi and welcome to WHTM. I hope I’m not crossing any lines if I ask if you’re SpukiKitty from FSTDT? It’s just that your writing style is similar to hers and also she’s a big fan of Pinkie Pie and Syd Barrett. 🙂

As to the OP, well, I have to admit that when I first heard of Trump campaigning, I dismissed him completely. I even laughed at the cartoonish buffoonery and over-the-top statements. I’m not laughing anymore, though! I’d say that Trump doesn’t have a whelk’s chance in a supernova of getting elected, were the election held today, but a lot can happen in 11 months. Worrisome times.

By the way, I’ve always wondered about the very long election campaigns that happen in the United States. Over here (Finland), we only have campaign posters up for, like, two-three weeks before the election and even then most people are sick lf the talking heads by the time election rolls up.

Yes! A matter of fact, I am. Hello, there! Who are you called on FSTDT? I previously made a couple of posts under the name “SpukiKitty” but that was a while ago and it was more of a “false-start” here and it used my previous web inbox address (that I stopped using). So, I’m starting over from scratch.

Concerning ol’ Trumpy-pants, I read somewhere that he’s thinking of going to a third-party. I hope so, it’ll decrease his chances more!

nparker
December 9, 2015 at 6:35 am

@PinkiSyddyKitty

Yes, I forgot- welcome to WHTM too! I’ve not been here long- still new- so I’m glad to see another new person.

Thank you so much! Glad to be here!

nparker
nparker
4 years ago

@ PinkiSyddyKitty

ol’ Trumpy-pants

That’s what I’m going to call him now, I think!

Three Snakes
4 years ago

I think he’s fascist, but less Hitler and more Mussolini.

He’s probably just as incompetent as mussolini too.

Wetherby
Wetherby
4 years ago

Concerning ol’ Trumpy-pants, I read somewhere that he’s thinking of going to a third-party. I hope so, it’ll decrease his chances more!

Yes, he said today that he’s running all the way to election day regardless of whether he’s picked as the Republican candidate.

And the near-certain outcome of an independent run will be to split the Republican vote and hand victory on a plate to Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders.

I’m pretty relaxed about this prospect.

weirwoodtreehugger
weirwoodtreehugger
4 years ago

It seems like a perversion of capitalism, and while not endangering the democratic nature of the system, it seems a bit like being wealthy can skew it.

I would say it actually does endanger Democracy. In theory – although never really in practice – anyone should be able to run for office regardless of their background and socioeconomic status. When it takes a ton of money to run for office and have a chance of winning, it means only the wealthy and connected have a shot of holding office. Increasingly, even small local elections like school board are becoming very well funded. How is that a government of the people? It really isn’t.

What was the crisis that led to the massively retrograde Jim Crow laws?

Various European nations had African slaves too. The difference is, they were in plantations away from the Eureopean continent and when slavery ended, they didn’t settle in Europe. They stayed in the Americas and the Caribbean. If freed African slaves were living in Europe amongst the Europeans I can almost guarantee those countries would’ve enacted similar laws to Jim Crow.

Let’s not pretend the US is uniquely racist and oppressive. Just look at how the Romani have been and still are treated all over Europe.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
4 years ago

The US is unique in a number of manners.

The US is unique in the following ways:

1. It is a country founded in modern times, without a lengthy history of wars and grudges.

2. It is a country founded by a blend of immigrants from several ethnic groups. Yes, I’m only talking about white people in that statement.

3. Through most of its formative history, it was separated from any power that could reasonably compete with it by a completely unreasonable travel time across the ocean.

That is literally it. That, right there, is American Exceptionalism, in total.

You will notice that the unique can-do, independent nature of the American people is not on the list. That’s because said uniqueness isn’t a thing.

Every single difference between the United States and non-US countries is a result of one or a combination of the above 3 factors.

You’re welcome.

Spindrift
Spindrift
4 years ago

Any other MST3K fans think of that bit from Pod People where Joel says “Trumpy, you can do stupid things!” every time you see another news story about Trump?
Or is that just me?

Monzach
Monzach
4 years ago

@weirwoodtreehugger

Thanks for the explanation. I should have realized that it has to do with the amount of money spent on campaigns by the candidates and third parties. After all, the money has to be spent somewhere, and preferably campaigning. 😀

@PinkiSyddyKitty

Hi hi! *waves*

I post occasionally on FSTDT under the name TheCunningLinguist, but I’m not very active on there. Cool to see you on here as well.

rugbyyogi
rugbyyogi
4 years ago

@PoM

One more thing in the American Exceptionalism list. For a long time much of the habitable area was largely empty and to some extent remains so. Yes, there were Native Americans, but their populations were not enough to fill that space. Disease and deliberate genocide (though killing or expulsion) did for the rest.

Nick Anderson
Nick Anderson
4 years ago

This is truly a fascinating story in American politics, perhaps the most outlandish event of it’s kind in American history. Trump’s campaign defies all traditional political thinking, which may be his single strongest asset to the Tea Partiers that appear to have become the core of the GOP and already love his entire platform. I mean, not allowing ANY Muslims into the US?? I keep thinking it’s an Onion article, but it’s Lester Holt’s voice on NBC Nightly News I hear telling me this! This is seriously what the GOP front runner’s plan is: cast all Muslim’s as the enemy, making all Muslim American’s 2nd class citizens in the process which is what Daesh want’s more than anything: to make this a war of the West against all Muslims in the world and usher in the apocalypse. So it’s the Tea Party, Nazis and the very terrorists we’re fighting who want Trump to be president of the US.

The trillion dollar question is: how far does this go? We keep thinking “that’s it, he’s done it now!” only to see his poll numbers stay strong if not improve. If it’s Trump Vs. Clinton or Sanders, can he actually win?

Ugh… My brain screams “NO NO NO!! NO FUCKING WAY IN HELL THAT CAN POSSIBLY HAPPEN!!!” But it’s a real possibility if he wins the GOP nom. …I think I’ll brush up on French and look into what emigrating to Canada entails if that’s the outcome…

ej
ej
4 years ago

I just came across this on Tumblr and wanted to share it with you all.

Here is a gif of a bald eagle smacking Donald Trump in the face. I think that sums things up pretty well. Enjoy!

http://49.media.tumblr.com/cd7c0e1ab22412b9486941b25ba17d91/tumblr_nz43dqVWhO1tsf68ao2_400.gif

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

@Nick Anderson
I think we need to find a way to impeach him immediately if that happens.

It’s scary how accurate Idiocracy was at predicting our future.