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Open Thread for discussion of San Bernardino mass shooting

The scene outside the Inland Regional Center
The scene outside the Inland Regional Center

At least 14 people have been killed in a mass shooting at a center for people with developmental disabilities in San Bernardino, involving multiple shooters in combat gear and using assault weapons. Police say that two suspects have been killed, one man, one woman; a third suspect has been detained. As I write this it’s not clear who the attackers were, what motivated them.

Please post any relevant information you find in the comments below.

See here for ongoing coverage.

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sunnysombrera
4 years ago

Who the fuck would shoot up a centre for people with disabilities?

Also, the “don’t blame guns!” crowd is out in full swing yet again. America seems to have a mass shooting every fucking week, and those are just the ones that make it into the news. When is it ever going to be time for gun regulation laws?

Mike
Mike
4 years ago

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME????

Mels
Mels
4 years ago

Unfortunately it’s much worse than that, sunny. We have a mass shooting more than once per day.

http://theslot.jezebel.com/there-have-been-more-mass-shootings-in-2015-than-days-i-1745776127

Virtually Out of Touch
Virtually Out of Touch
4 years ago

The Manosphere claims “crime is down”. OK theft might be down. Less people are being locked up for pot. But mass shootings are on the rise!!!!!!

Frank Torpedo
4 years ago

I can’t wait for some SHITFUCK to roll up in this article and start shooting their big-ass mouth off about why David covered this incident, even though they know full-well that this sounds like the work of Manospherians – you know, the Manospherians who say Hitler Was Right about getting rid of all those useless disabled people.

And, anyway, it’s David’s blog, and he’s perfectly at liberty to post whatever he likes to it, regardless of whatever overly critical shitfucks think; they neither pay the bills for the site nor do they help maintain it or post on it, so they can FUCK RIGHT OFF.

SpleenyBaggage
SpleenyBaggage
4 years ago

I’ve been sitting here in Australia reading this coverage all morning, and I feel sick over it. Then I see a separate news item saying that this recent US Black Friday broke all records for gun sales / background checks. But there can’t possibly be any connection between those two things, right? Right?

Paradoxical Intention
4 years ago

sunnysombrera | December 2, 2015 at 8:01 pm
Who the fuck would shoot up a centre for people with disabilities?

People who don’t believe that those of us with disabilities don’t deserve to be people, and we don’t deserve help, or as they call them “handouts”.

Now, this is just speculation on my part, as we don’t know the motivations of the shooters at all, but these kinds of fuckers are going to be out in full force condoning this shit, and I already do not have the spoons for it.

Also, the “don’t blame guns!” crowd is out in full swing yet again. America seems to have a mass shooting every fucking week, and those are just the ones that make it into the news. When is it ever going to be time for gun regulation laws?

Never, if they have their way. “We need guns to protect ourselves from guns!”, as they say. Then they mistakenly point to Sweden and say “Look! Everyone there has guns and it’s so peaceful!”, completely oblivious to the fact they’re not allowed to keep ammo at home and there’s a mandatory period of military service that all men have to do (which I don’t agree with, but I also don’t know how their military works. Personally, I’d be happy if it was voluntary for anyone of any gender, but that’s still compromising from my “NO WAR AT ALL” platform).

Or they pop off with “Bad guys will just get a hold of guns anyways, so what’s the point in regulating guns?”, while simultaneously condemning same-sex marriage, marijuana, and transgender-friendly bathroom laws, and demanding that all those be regulated and whatnot.

All that aside, those of us in the United States will cling to our guns, because “MENDMUNTS”, while all around us, there’s another fucking mass shooting every other week. People are losing their fucking families, their sense of safety, or worst, their lives, and these people still can’t bring themselves to give a shit enough to realize what the problem actually is.

Mels
Mels
4 years ago

Even if this ends up having nothing to do with the manosphere, it’s nice to have a place to discuss it without the constant trolling and unchecked ableism (at best, even) in other sites’ comment threads.

MexicanHotChocolate
MexicanHotChocolate
4 years ago

How long before the media decides the shooters were troubled loners? How long before Republican politicians go on TV and declare the problem is the mental health care system? How long before the NRA declares the solution is more “good guys” with guns?

Virtually Out of Touch
Virtually Out of Touch
4 years ago

“How long before the media decides the shooters were troubled loners? How long before Republican politicians go on TV and declare the problem is the mental health care system? How long before the NRA declares the solution is more “good guys” with guns?”

How long before the Manosphere says its women’s fault?

katz
katz
4 years ago

There were also two other mass shootings today: One in Houston and one in Georgia.

I am so tapped right now. I feel like there’s no point in saying or doing anything anymore when there’s a mass shooting.

Virtually Out of Touch
Virtually Out of Touch
4 years ago

“Apparently the shooters targeted a holiday party being held in a conference room at the center involving people not associated with the center”

Yeah….. alphas and the “sluts” who love them were at that party and if only those sluts had sex with the 3 beta “nice guys” this whole tragedy could have been avoided.

Bryce
Bryce
4 years ago

There are uncomfirmed reports of one the shooters being a Middle Eastern man. Don’t want to jump to conclusions based solely on that, but it seems than an ISIS connection is more likely than libertarian gun nuts running amok.

weirwoodtreehugger
4 years ago

PI,
You mean Switzerland, right?

Anyway. Interesting that a woman was one of the shooters. That’s not typical. It’s also interesting (but not at all surprising and completely typical) that the media mostly isn’t discussing it as a potential terrorist attack because it’s clear they aren’t brown and Muslim. But with three shooters they can’t push the lone wolf “crazy” guy narrative so they are pretty much spinning their wheels.

Of course, it’s still speculation but it’s kind of hard to imagine how this isn’t connected to some right wing/reactionary kind of motivation. I guess we’ll see.

I admit to being curious about how the manosphere will be discussing this now that we know a woman is involved.

Virtually Out of Touch
Virtually Out of Touch
4 years ago

Why would ISIS target a small party of non-politically connected ordinary people?

redsilkphoenix
4 years ago

@Sunnysombrea:

Never. Not until a close family member of an important Congresscritter or someone high up in the NRA gets hit in the crossfire of one of these shootings. Then maybe they’ll discuss sane(r) gun control laws.

Though I suspect things will more than likely turn into that scene from the movie _Brazil_, where the nameless background terrorists set off a bomb in a high-scale crowded restaurant. The management there responds to the attack by setting up screens to shield the rest of the patrons from the gruesome sight of injured bodies so they can finish their meals in peace.

At least, it seems like we’re moving in that direction sometimes. 🙁

Virtually Out of Touch
Virtually Out of Touch
4 years ago
Fabe
Fabe
4 years ago

I just came across a meme on facebook. it looks like people are already calling this a ‘false flag’ hoax

Virtually Out of Touch
Virtually Out of Touch
4 years ago
Paradoxical Intention
4 years ago

weirwoodtreehugger | December 2, 2015 at 8:26 pm
PI,
You mean Switzerland, right?

Yeah, sorry. I’m just worn out right now, with all this shooting going on and a few other personal issues, I don’t have the energy to deal with any of this shit in any reasonable way right now.

Especially now that I know this is the third fucking shooting today alone.

Hu's On First
Hu's On First
4 years ago

Having a Middle Eastern-sounding name doesn’t necessarily mean he’s a Muslim, let alone motivated by Islamism. Remember Daryush Valizadeh?

Carayak
Carayak
4 years ago

I was meeting with my worker when I heard about this one. She’s employed by a closely-related agency, and might have even known some of the people who were killed. That struck pretty close to home.

I bet she doesn’t go to the company Christmas party this year.

weirwoodtreehugger
4 years ago

It kind of seems like the more we find out, the less sense this is makingcomment image

We are all Jon Snow today.

freddymurray
freddymurray
4 years ago

First of: Fucking hell with this crap! Aaaaaaaaagggghhhh!

Second: all these jokers clinging to their precious Second Amendment rights should know that the Constitution is not set in stone. If the Eighteenth Amendment could be repealed, then so can the Second Amendment. Not that I’m optimistic that’ll happen, but if Congress comes to their collective senses they can do just that.

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
4 years ago

The man described by the Daily Beast doesn’t seem like a likely suspect. Educated, wife and small child…

Miss A
Miss A
4 years ago

I know someone who has a friend who was wounded in this. Last he heard, his friend was in surgery. I’ve been keeping an ear on this since it’s just a bit north of me, and it just makes me all kinds of sad.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
4 years ago

Yeah….. alphas and the “sluts” who love them were at that party and if only those sluts had sex with the 3 beta “nice guys” this whole tragedy could have been avoided.

Why on earth are you so super-invested in somehow making this manosphere-relevant? There’s no evidence of this at this point. David putting up a post about this is not evidence that he thinks the manosphere is in any way involved – he puts up posts like this all the time about all kinds of things because people need a place to process it and share info.

You sound, honestly, like a frickin troll trying to trick all the gross feminists into some kind of gotcha. If this isn’t your intention, you need to step back and reassess your connection with this community.

philae
philae
4 years ago

Apparently, the actual target was not the facility serving the developmentally disabled located in the IRC but, instead, a conference room that was hosting a holiday party for local state and county public-health employees.

Source: http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a40155/san-bernardino-shooting-again/

Based on the above, here is my own wild-ass speculation about the shooters: They are members or admirers of some anti-government hate group, and in particular they had their dander up about the big, evil federal takeover of health care.

(PS: After finals week, I’m going to crochet myself a red and white beanie with a maple leaf on the side, then run away to Canada.)

Miss A
Miss A
4 years ago

The good thoughts are appreciated, David.

On a side-tangent, hearing about these shootings always reminds me of seeing the VoVs when I worked in a hospital. It never gets any easier seeing a cop guarding an E.R. room because a victim is inside, or only having certain people able to see the person because they’re in one of the locked units. Even if you build something of a toughness up from the day-to-day medical stuffs, seeing scenes like that can still sting.

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
4 years ago

@philae

Come on up! Today in the Canadian news, everyone is in an uproar about the Prime Minister paying two nannies on the taxpayers’ dime. I made sure to point out that Americans should be so lucky if that was their worst problem.

@PoM

That’s unnecessarily heavy-handed, IMHO.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
4 years ago

I was at work when this started, and wow. At this point I can’t really imagine any kind of motive that isn’t anti-government in nature.

Government workers are human beings, but you’d never realize that listening to Republicans and their Faux News shills. I literally cannot bring myself to look at what kind of bullshit they are saying to distance themselves from their responsibility for this. Nobody gets rich in the public sector. People do it because they believe in good governance. Because we have problems as a society that only public structures can address, and they believe that we should address them by the only means possible.

Miss A
Miss A
4 years ago

As an update on my friend’s friend, he apparently worked in the coffee shop in the building. Surgery went well and he should make a full recovery.

weirwoodtreehugger
4 years ago

Miss A,
I’m glad he’ll be okay.

Walter
Walter
4 years ago

What a horrible tragedy. We need real gun control in this country.

delphi_ote
delphi_ote
4 years ago

“The LA Times is reporting that (according to law enforcement sources)…”

Oh, law enforcement sources, you say? Of the anonymous “encryption caused the Paris attacks” variety? I’ll go ahead and wait.

delphi_ote
delphi_ote
4 years ago

I’m sorry for your friend and his friend, Miss A. Nobody should have to go through that.

girlgeek80
girlgeek80
4 years ago

Personal, feel free to ignore. Normally I would follow the news and just keep up with my normal routine, but today I’ve just checked out. People are already on facebook talking about they think needs to be done with the mentally ill.

Thank you for the vent space.

chosen_name
chosen_name
4 years ago

I really wish people would stop with guessing who the offenders are. You just look like an ass when they turn out not to be who you think they are. (This goes for people proclaiming they are probably manospherians, anti-government gun fetishists, white supremacists, Christians, folks of middle-eastern origin, or Muslim. Just stop.)

Micharion
Micharion
4 years ago

I’m sorry if this seems like venting but I need to say it. This shooting took place near where I lived for most of my life so what my parent’s are saying is kind of beyond the pale. They are basically saying the usual NRA’s fucked up canard. They don’t even care that there might have been multiple shooters. That and with my mother becoming more of a bitch as she ages and my dad, I don’t know how to describe what is happening with him, it is just getting too hard to live with them with a clear conscience.

AnAndrejaPejicBlog (@A_Pejic_Blog)

Well, if all the shooters turn out to be of Middle Eastern descent, the ‘they’re mentally ill!’ chorus will immediately start singing, ‘they’re terrorists!’

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
4 years ago

SpleenyBaggage — as I have the sort of relatives who know such things, apparently Obama issued some statement urging people to discuss gun control with their families over Thanksgiving… causing the NRA types to cheer over the Black Friday numbers and how the exact opposite of what he wanted happened.

MexicanHotChocolate — “How long before the NRA declares the solution is more “good guys” with guns?” — I suspect they already have, though last I heard from the aforementioned relatives was the standard Othering of the attackers and sympathy for the victims. So give it until tomorrow? They’ll never fucking come out in favor of gun control, the NRA is a business effectively, they get paid to promote guns, they get paid to lobby for less gun control, and when cold hard cash is at stake, don’t expect big businesses to grow a moral bone.

Policy of Madness and Auntie Alias — I’ve been thinking the same thing actually. Virtually has a serious trend, across multiple threads and weeks now, of saying seriously questionable shit and then flat ignoring any criticism of it. And it’s gone from “eh, good faith just wrong?” to “wait, you expect us to agree with that” to “are you fishing for something?”

On topic!
“People are already on facebook talking about they think needs to be done with the mentally ill.” — of fucking course they are. Not like we don’t already risk locked wards and forced medication, or technically not forced but “non-compliant with treatment” if we refuse. Not even remotely like we don’t tend to see shit like this the same ways the mentally healthy folks do. I just can’t fucking even with this shit. Assholes attack place helping disabled people, blame disabled people… just how broken does your logic need to be?

Nequam
Nequam
4 years ago

Argenti: I’m sure Wayne LaPierre has a statement prepared as soon as he can appear in public without an erection that could drill a hole in concrete.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
4 years ago

That’s unnecessarily heavy-handed, IMHO.

I know that seemed out of the blue, but Virtually’s a known troll – currently trolling in two other threads, in fact – so our response to them is generally going to be harsher than it would be otherwise.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
4 years ago

Ninja’d… By 15 minutes. Why yes, I did get distracted with lunch. =P Oops.

zoon echon logon
zoon echon logon
4 years ago

chosen_name | December 2, 2015 at 10:54 pm

I really wish people would stop with guessing who the offenders are. You just look like an ass when they turn out not to be who you think they are. (This goes for people proclaiming they are probably manospherians, anti-government gun fetishists, white supremacists, Christians, folks of middle-eastern origin, or Muslim. Just stop.)

Thank you.

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