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Just FYI: The Church of Satan is totally into that whole sex robot thing

Let's just pretend this is a picture of Anton LaVey with a sex robot
Let’s just pretend this is a picture of Anton LaVey with a sex robot

So last night I was skimming through the official Church of Satan Info Pack, like you do, and I made an interesting discovery. Alongside such standard Satany things as, you know, eugenics, vengeance, naked-lady altars, it turns out that the official Church of Satan position on sex robots is: Yes, please!

In fact, they’re so into it that it’s point number four in their “five point plan to move society in directions that are considered to be beneficial to Satanists.”

Here’s their pitch:

Satanists advocate a new industry, the development and promotion of artificial human companions. These humanoids will be constructed to be as realistic as possible, and available to anyone who can afford one.

So poor people will have to make do with blow-up dolls, I guess.

Recognizing that the human animal often raises himself up through the denegration of another, this would provide a safe outlet for such behavior. Have the lover of your dreams, regardless of your own prowess; every man a king who can purchase his own subject; or contrarywise, buy the master you wish to serve.

That got a little bit dark, huh? Then again, this is the Church of, you know, SATAN.

Freedom of choice to satisfy your most secret desires with no-one to be bothered is now at hand. What could be better for blowing-off the tension that exists throughout our society, and promoting healthier interaction among true humans?

I can’t say I’m 100% with the Church of Satan on every issue, or even 1%, but I’m going to support them on this: Sex robots for Satanists — or anyone else who feels the need to “raise … himself up through the denegration of another.” Because it’s better to be horrible to inanimate objects than to human beings.

 

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Ohlmann
Ohlmann
5 years ago

Isn’t their position rather logical ?

I mean, there is quite a lot of people who know their fetish is something they can never fulfill. It’s not particulary edgy to say that a robotic outlet for that would work. And thoses people can and do have normal husbands and wives, since it don’t correlate with being an horrible human being.

Of course, the position that a robot is not worth respect is debatable. If something is human like enough to serve as lover, he is likely to be worth at least the same rught as an animal.

Chaos-Engineer
Chaos-Engineer
5 years ago

OK, so I skimmed through the document (it’s at http://www.churchofsatan.com/docs/cosinfopack.pdf), and, yes, sex-bots, but it’s all packed full of Libertarian nonsense and racist dog-whistles:

A practical application of this doctrine would see the
complete cessation of the welfare system, an end to no-strings attached foreign aid and
new programs to award and encourage gifted individuals in all fields to pursue personal
excellence. A meritocracy will replace the practice of such injustices as affirmative action
and other programs designed to punish the able and reward the undeserving

Not to mention crypto-fascism and more racist dog-whistles.

To achieve this, we would be pleased to see the institution
of an elite police force, of men and women in peak physical and mental condition, trained
in advanced techniques of crime fighting who would be truly equipped to handle the
vermin that make so many of our cities into little more than concrete jungles.

What happened, Church of Satan? You were cool back when I was a teenager, but now you’ve sold out to The Man! Shame on you!

meltheadorable
5 years ago

Church of Satan wasn’t cool back when you were a teenager, it’s been packed full of racist dog whistles and libertarian crypto-fascism since basically forever, “The Satanic Bible” has a bunch of that stuff floating around in more or less obvious forms, that was published in 69, and it’s always attracted that kind of crowd.

thewebbard
thewebbard
5 years ago

I always thought the Church of Satan was a parody???

badgersdaughter
badgersdaughter
5 years ago

Destructiveness toward inanimate objects is still indulging the destructive instinct. Mistreating a robot is still acting out purposeful mistreatment. In ancient Rome, the paterfamilias had the ultimate right of life or death over his family. We don’t think any of those “rights to destroy” are good or beneficial things. Still less would we want to entrust anything we cared about to people who indulge in such actions.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

The Satanists are having their own libertasshole vs SJW feuds:

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2015/10/31/when-satanism-met-the-internet/

(Yes, Breitbart, I know; but it’s the only place willing to publish SJW-hating Satanists.)

CPphazor
CPphazor
5 years ago

I weep for the current state of LaVeyan satanism but I’ve always been on the fence about the concept. Either it makes more sense to be purist atheist, or to go whole hog and do mock spells/rituals to Satan etc for the hell of it.

Being a jackass who finds the social contract distasteful and doesn’t see the issue with us developing lopsided relationships with highly humanoid machines, not so much.

Selt
Selt
5 years ago

Depends on which “Satanism” you’re looking at, basically. I’ve found that half of them are just people trolling the sort of people who get up in arms about Satanists.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

I do appreciate the way Satanists troll Christian supremacist theocrats, but even though they’re like me atheists, not Satan worshipers, I never considered joining. Because there’s too much of a libertarian vibe.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Okay. My last post had a weirdly constructed sentence. Sorry. I blame the cold I’m coming down with.

hedin
hedin
5 years ago

I’m sort of impressed with the honesty of Satanists on this point, although it doesn’t make me want to hang out with them.

I think The She Creatures put a much better spin on the concept: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFXn2rTa2QQ

Ellesar
Ellesar
5 years ago

I tried to read the Satanic Bible, and found it as unreadable as any other supposedly religious book. They have got a point here, but I don’t think that in the long term people being free to enact any act of violence on a human looking machine will benefit them, or society.

BritterSweet
5 years ago

I did what you said and pretended that picture was of Anton LaVey with a sex robot and now my mind is in a bizarre place…

HB
HB
5 years ago

I don’t remember the religious Satanists being into such stupid crap back when I was a teenager and thought they sounded pretty cool. Stuff they put out on their websites back then was way more about respect for all life and an individualist lifestyle, but in a fairly obvious way as opposed to any libertarian ravings. Maybe I just didn’t get far enough into that crowd to encounter the real extremists.

Tulse
Tulse
5 years ago

To be clear, the Church of Satan may be obnoxious jerkwads, but the Satanic Temple folks are quite cool, although I think they fall into the “trolling Christians” camp. They are very much pro-choice (and have held counter-protests in support of Planned Parenthood) and pro religious freedom (they’re the ones who threatened to demand a statue of Baphomet on the Oklahoma State Capitol, since they also had the Ten Commandments).

So yeah, some “Satanists” are quite cool, and others…not so much.

bluecatbabe
bluecatbabe
5 years ago

This is in Iain M Banks’ Against a Dark Background.

Some of the human-like androids ever built are “missing” and believed to have been kidnapped “for the commission of acts which would be illegal when inflicted on humans”. They are sentient, self-aware, and effectively immortal, so that really is dark.

lightcastle
lightcastle
5 years ago

The Church of Satan has always been “Libertarianism in Black Robes” more or less. I think LaVey was even pretty clear about that at one point?

The Satanic Temple, however, is the “let’s troll Christians”, which can vary from being pretty assholic to extremely effective trolling of anything dealing with the erosion of the separation of church and state. (Over time they seem to have focused more and more on anything that is about subtly entrenching Christianity as the de facto state religion just because it is the most dominant.)

Rotify
Rotify
5 years ago

This article seems inconsistent with this blog’s past familiarity with a central concept of BDSM: Fantasy is okay, full stop.

While the article begrudgingly allows that if Satanists want to degrade an object representing a human being, that’s better than the alternative, there is a clear moral judgment being made that the desire to degrade is itself worthy of condemnation. Yet the desire to degrade or be degraded is, to put it mildly, at the root of a hell of a lot of BDSM play.

Since consent is a non-issue with an inanimate object such as a robot, the negative moral judgment must be coming from somewhere other than the issue of consent. So what is it? Is it all kinky people who deserve this sneering dismissal of their dark fantasies, or just certain kinky people? If the latter, how do you choose which kinky people with dark fantasies deserve judgment and which do not?

dhag85
5 years ago

I’m just speculating here, but are MRAs literally the Devil then?

dhag85
5 years ago

On a personal note, I’ve just found out my in-laws are Trump supporters. I didn’t think they could get worse..

Bernardo Soares
Bernardo Soares
5 years ago

Recognizing that the human animal often raises himself up through the denegration of another, this would provide a safe outlet for such behavior.

That’s really bad logic. If you get off on denigrating someone else, this won’t really work if its an “inanimate object” that can’t feel pain or denigration or humiliation – because by definition then you can’t denigrate it. If a robot can feel pain, humiliation and so on, it should have basic rights. There’s a reason why animal cruelty is illegal.

It’s also bad grammar, because the object here is “another” referring to another human animal. Duh.

@EJtoO

Every time I read “the alternative to left and right”, I translate “yay, fascism”. 60% of the time, it works every time.

Leda Atomica
Leda Atomica
5 years ago

Because spiritual growth is hard, our church wants you to keep being assholes, just dwell in your assholery with an inanimate object. For now.

I suppose growing up is like never the answer to these types, eh?

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

@Bernardo Soares:
Pretty much, yes.

Zyvlyn
Zyvlyn
5 years ago

@dhag

I feel your pain. Many of mine are as well. On the plus side, hatred of Trump and embarrassment of her relatives supporting him finally got my fiance to pay attention to politics.

promisedlandpastor
5 years ago

@Ohlmann No sir. Numerous stifles have shown that consumption of pornography reduces sexual satisfaction and that *violent* porn leads to increased tendency toward violence directed at one’s partner and is specifically tied to interpreting views of women, women’s issues, and rape in a light manner.

TRIGGER WARNING: rape
How much more, then, would physically acting out these fantasies on a humanoid victim? Frigid Farah (a sex doll that says “no” and begs you to stop raping it is chilling enough without it kicking and fighting back like a real rape victim.

promisedlandpastor
5 years ago

Sorry, numerous *studies*. Sutocorrect on phone, ug.

ikanreed
ikanreed
5 years ago

@thewebbard

You’re not wrong, but it’s this weird mixture of people who want to protest religion, people who just want to embrace a parody religion as a full religion, and people who just are trolls.

That mixture, as you might guess, leads to obnoxious assholes and stupid opinions, in a variety of flavors.

kale
kale
5 years ago

Pretty sure Ive seen at least one study suggesting that “taking out” negativity (ie anger) might not actually help reduce it but may rather stoke it… altho I think theres room for more research…

kale
kale
5 years ago

…but what happens when the robots are so sophisticatedly developed that they gain sentience – perhaps life?

dlouwe
5 years ago

I think the biggest ethical dilemma re: robots as specific outlets is whether or not its ethical to create a being with a complex enough sentience that it can act in a realistically human manner to a situation, but also give it specific and unalterable desires. I.e. to impose upon its self-determination.

For instance, a human having sex with a humanoid robot should be in itself fine, so long as they both consent. But what if you create the robot such that it always consents for a certain person, no matter what? Is that consent still meaningful? Technically from the robot’s POV there would be nothing amiss because that’s just how they process the world; they don’t know anything else. But I’m undecided on if that’s all that counts in the matter.

Nequam
Nequam
5 years ago

Aside, if you know LaVey was a carny before he founded the Church, it explains a lot.

Leda Atomica
Leda Atomica
5 years ago

@dlouwe

“I think the biggest ethical dilemma re: robots as specific outlets is whether or not its ethical to create a being with a complex enough sentience that it can act in a realistically human manner to a situation, but also give it specific and unalterable desires. I.e. to impose upon its self-determination.”

I think the biggest ethical dilemma is simulated sexual abuse and reinforcing this as a behaviour instead of guiding people away from it.

An A.I. might to a human look like it’s doing things in a realistically human manner but it doesn’t yet mean sentience on the part of the machine.

dlouwe
5 years ago

@Leda Atomica

Fair, I more meant from the perspective of the robot. There’s a ton of considerations to be made from the human side before even getting to that point, absolutely.

Orion
5 years ago

Numerous [studies] have shown … *violent* porn leads to increased tendency toward violence directed at one’s partner and is specifically tied to interpreting views of women, women’s issues, and rape in a light manner.

Really? Do you have a study with causative and not correlative findings?

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
5 years ago

“@Ohlmann No sir. Numerous stifles have shown that consumption of pornography reduces sexual satisfaction and that *violent* porn leads to increased tendency toward violence directed at one’s partner and is specifically tied to interpreting views of women, women’s issues, and rape in a light manner.”

The way you say it, it’s about as stupid as saying “violent videogames/movies/books create mass murderers” to counter the fact that some people are naturally wrathful and like to escape in videogames, books, or movies. Even if it were true, it’s completely unrelated to the issue, because you seem to believe anything negative in somebody is clearly the product of his culture, which is wrong.

Some people have inherently problematics fetishes, and aren’t raving madmen who can’t control themselves. Let’s take someone who love to have pain in the bedroom. Thoses people would not turn to self harm if BDSM practices did not exist ; a good portion of them would just have a less good sexual life.

If a sexbot allow some people to have a safe and sound way to do what they desire, then it’s all good. But generalisations that sexbots would create more violent predators on the streets are ludicrous.

Also, sex-bots are extremely far away, and they will most probably be a slow expansion of the sex toy field more than of the porn. Projections on what it will authorize, and how it will interact with human psyche, is very wild guesses at best.

bekabot
5 years ago

I’m just speculating here, but are MRAs literally the Devil then?

Christ, no…the Lordly Monarch of the North wouldn’t spit on ’em if they were on fire. For true.

erica, ascendant
5 years ago

I’m pretty sure sex robots, past just the Uncanny Valley thing (and the invariable “uncanny valley” jokes) will just end up being used to hold women to even more impossible standards.

I know that there’s something to be said for the diversion of people who will hurt people, but if a robot has any sentience whatsoever that will probably make it much easier for someone to make the jump to actual living, breathing human women.

Thus I just can’t with this one.

katz
katz
5 years ago

I think the biggest ethical dilemma re: robots as specific outlets is whether or not its ethical to create a being with a complex enough sentience that it can act in a realistically human manner to a situation, but also give it specific and unalterable desires. I.e. to impose upon its self-determination.

I’m pretty confident that sentience would be neither necessary nor desirable to these guys. I think they’d be happiest with a simple algorithm like the ones in dating sims.

Tulse
Tulse
5 years ago

The recent AMC/Channel 4 show Humans dealt with the issue of robots human enough to be used as sex partners, including “brothels” where clients could indeed carry out acts that would be illegal to do on humans. Unfortunately (SPOILER) some of the robots had achieved sentience/consciousness, and so pretty much felt what a human would feel.

Arthur Meyer
5 years ago

I think before anyone even constructs a highly-intelligent robot, they should read up on some Issac Asimov and Micheal Foucault, as well as look at post-modernism’s greatest triumph: the furry fandom. I’d also recommend watching Blade Runner as well…

Depending on the level of intelligence and awareness a robot has, just what will happen if the robot begins to see and think more outside of what it was allowed to do? At some point, the robot becomes less of a robot and much closer to a human, and thus, it will have limits. I understand that it’s impossible for an AI to comprehend some things (why save the 1 brilliant writer as opposed to 5 flunkies because 5 is a bigger number than 1), but what isn’t to stop an AI from being tired and repressed of the same old routine?

Leda Atomica
Leda Atomica
5 years ago

Wasn’t the Channel 4 show called Humons? Or was that another show?

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Off topic bad news.

Another mass shooting. This one in CA and it supposedly started at a center for people with developmental disabilities.
http://gawker.com/as-many-as-20-victims-reported-in-san-bernardino-mass-s-1745757446

The suspects are three white men in military gear so it’s fair to guess it’s more right wing terrorism.

Tulse
Tulse
5 years ago

Wasn’t the Channel 4 show called Humons?

I think that the title was styled as “HUM∀NS”, with an upside-down “A”, although the actual name is “Humans”.

Fruitloopsie
5 years ago

WWTH
I heard about it just earlier and I’m glad the people in the comments are calling it as terrorism and realizing the double standards between white and people of color. But the ableism? Wow way to be respectful to disabled people everywhere including those who got shot /s

Arthur Meyer
5 years ago

@WWTH

I just found out about this because my school is in that area. It’s the Art Institute of San Bernardino, and the school is lock-down to not allow anyone to enter or leave, since the gunmen haven’t been caught yet.

Bluecollarnerd
5 years ago

Just going to leave that there.

Orion
5 years ago

I happened to catch part of 1 episode of Humans, which seemed to be a human/robot mixed family having dinner. No impression of the show except that the robot actress was really good. She did an amazing job of being very, very close to human but still obviously not human. Really cool.

Bryce
Bryce
5 years ago

Sure, nothing elevates the human spirit like the ability to vent sadistic urges… (/s)

It’s obvious that those who get off on domination are never going to be satisfied with a robot.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Arthur,
I hope everyone you know is all right.

It’s fucking terrifying that they’re still at large. I really hope they’re done for the day.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

There’s a live feed here. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2015/dec/02/san-bernardino-shooting-live-coverage

The Guardian has gotten pretty good at doing live feeds of mass shootings 🙁

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